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JeffrySG
10-06-2010, 07:16 AM
This was a pretty interesting podcast. I was very surprised to hear that some of the new iphones and blackberrys exceed the FDA safety limits for radiation exposure when the phones are next to your ears. Funny how you don't really hear about that stuff.

http://beta.wnyc.org/shows/lopate/2010/sep/28/cell-phone-radiation/
you can download it on iTunes as well.


I'd be curious to hear what everyone thinks on the subject. I personally try to use a headset (corded) or speaker phone whenever possible.


Dr. Devra Davis, founding director of the toxicology and environmental studies board at the U.S. National Academy of Sciences, discusses the recent and long-suppressed research on the dangers of cell phone radiation. In Disconnect: The Truth About Cell Phone Radiation, What the Industry Has Done to Hide It, and How to Protect Your Family, Davis reveals the dark side of these ubiquitous gadgets and the trillion-dollar industry behind them.

Elmar Moelzer
10-06-2010, 07:32 AM
I think that the dangers of cell phone radiation and radiation in general is usually blown way out of proportion.
People worry about this sort of stuff, but wont hesitate using their phone while driving, headset or not, the distraction is a much bigger threat than the radiation.
Equally, people worry about radiation from nuclear reactors, but have no worries living right next to a coal power plant, which produces all sorts of nasty stuff including A LOT of radiation (which they then inhale along with the fly ash and other particles that are much more likely to cause them cancer than a major nuclear accident would).
That is just my personal opinion of course.

Amurrell
10-06-2010, 02:19 PM
I like the fact that we are talking about microwave radiation, which is known to excite and heat molecules, but no one is talking a whole lot about ionizing radiation, starting with UV going through x-rays and gamma rays on up. We get so much radiation on a daily basis, that if people knew about it they would want to get rid of the sun, many other cosmic bodies, the mountains the ground they walk on and the gypsum that sheathes their walls as well as the radon in their basements. These types of radiation are far more dangerous for you and in reality we don't really know how damaging over all. Since W. Roentgen had studied x-rays in his lab one fine weekend in the late 1800s, humans have been learning and re-learning about ionizing radiation.

Microwaves can be dangerous by there own right, but accurate studies have not been done. With ionizing radiation, there is a standard 25 year period of time, or latent period which may or may not lead to cancer, for any type of exposure to ionizing radiation. It is said that a chest x-ray increases your chance of getting cancer by 0.004% where men overall have a 43% chance and women a 36% of developing some sort of cancer within their lifetimes without the help of ionizing radiation. The study of ionizing radiation is a little over 100 years old, and still there is no concrete answers for anything less than acute exposures. This microwave craze in cell phones is even younger, and latent periods could be longer or non-existent.

I like the hype "25,000 cells per second are destroyed with cell phone use on the iPhone" Which means that 1.8 years of constant use will destroy the 60 billion neurons in your head. Not to mention the other external things that cause brain damage like drugs, alcohol, harmful vapors. Not so much ionizing radiation since one has to be exposed to 5000 rads or 50Gy for neurological response to happen and that's all at once. If you get that whole body, you're dead in hours maybe a couple of days. But with all of this in mind, it seems as if the average cell phone user has 6 months to a year to live after their initial use of a cell phone which = crap.

We have to wait for proper testing and be smarter as humans before jumping on any band wagon. I could be wrong about them not being dangerous, but I don't see anything conclusive done by multiple testers without bias. I will wait for a conclusion to the studies, or die of a brain tumor with a phone in my hand.

Elmar Moelzer
10-06-2010, 02:35 PM
Well interestingly, the more research is done, most cancers can be linked to genetics and viruses than exposure to low level radiation. There are actually studies that claim that a constant exposure to low level radiation is actually healthy (I would not bet my life on that though).
Fact is that INHALING and ingesting radioactive particles is the best way to damage your body. The only ones of those that you will meet out there are from coal power plants and coal fired ovens.
We do have pretty good long time studies on the effects of that (at some point most of Europe was heating, firing, smelting, etc almost everything with coal and that for many decades). The fact that mankind has NOT died out yet is telling.
Also, most people forget to check their facts: Only 50 people were killed by radiation poisoning resulting from the accident in Tshernobyl (and that was pretty bad). 31 of those died within 3 months, 19 until 2007. The WHO claims that 250 more may have died as a result of the exposure (but not from cancer). One must not forget that there were more than 100 rescue workers directly exposed at the accident site. 137 more people were indirectly exposed and suffered radiation sickness. Considering all this, the death toll is lower than one would expect.
Coal and oil fired plants indirectly kill a lot more people every year (through lung cancer caused by heavy metals and radioactive material in the fly ash) and even more die in mining accidents, or in accidents during routine work at the plants.

Shnoze Shmon
10-06-2010, 02:44 PM
Everyone who has ever eaten carrots has died within 120 years. Carrots are dangerous, don't eat them.

oliversimonnet
10-06-2010, 03:09 PM
everyone who has ever eaten carrots has died within 120 years. Carrots are dangerous, don't eat them.

really?!?!?!

shrox
10-06-2010, 03:23 PM
I like the fact that we are talking about microwave radiation, which is known to excite and heat molecules, but no one is talking a whole lot about ionizing radiation, starting with UV going through x-rays and gamma rays on up. We get so much radiation on a daily basis, that if people knew about it they would want to get rid of the sun, many other cosmic bodies, the mountains the ground they walk on and the gypsum that sheathes their walls as well as the radon in their basements...

Yep, the dangers of knowing the world around you. Don't forget granite counter tops...

Soth
10-06-2010, 04:10 PM
I cannot use mobile phone w/o cabled headset for more than 10 minutes (depending on phone model) or even bluetooth (few hours this one) headset to not get nasty headache.

There is something in this radiation thing, and it hurts, I bet is is something not very good for you. Or my wife is right and - I make it all up. :D

shrox
10-06-2010, 04:39 PM
I cannot use mobile phone w/o cabled headset for more than 10 minutes (depending on phone model) or even bluetooth (few hours this one) headset to not get nasty headache.

There is something in this radiation thing, and it hurts, I bet is is something not very good for you. Or my wife is right and - I make it all up. :D

It is not radiation, as that doesn't "hurt" . Maybe something acoustical in the earpiece. I hear sounds that many cannot, and some devices make a sound that I find irritating.

Soth
10-06-2010, 04:54 PM
It is not radiation, as that doesn't "hurt" . Maybe something acoustical in the earpiece. I hear sounds that many cannot, and some devices make a sound that I find irritating.

It kinda cumulates, and I can feel it only after few minutes, gets better when I am changing ears, concentrates around ear area and never happens with cabled headset.

My theory is that radiation is energy that might rise temperature, that might give me this nasty painful feeling. :)

But who cares, I just always use headphones, no more thinking is needed. :)

Hopper
10-06-2010, 05:00 PM
I was very surprised to hear that some of the new iphones and blackberrys exceed the FDA safety limits for radiation exposure when the phones are next to your ears. Funny how you don't really hear about that stuff.
It's a small price to pay for awesomeness...

JeffrySG
10-06-2010, 05:12 PM
it's a small price to pay for awesomeness...
^lmao :)



It's a little worrisome that the cellphone industry is doing its best to keep any current testing from happening. I'm not too concerned but I also don't want to find out that a whole generation will end up getting brain cancers because we didn't research this enough. Kind of like cigarette smoke. Once the public knew it was too late for many many people. Not everyone but a damn lot. Hopefully we will get to see some more studies and research.

I still love my iphone and use it everyday but I'm not using the actual phone part too much and do try to use my headset when possible.



Everyone who has ever eaten carrots has died within 120 years. Carrots are dangerous, don't eat them.
People joked the same way about smoking or many other things we now know to be very very toxic. At the very least the public has a right to be properly informed through good scientific studies that are not limited by the same industry that is profiting.

T-Light
10-06-2010, 07:43 PM
There was a report some years ago (late 90's?) that said wired ear phones were worse than holding the phone to your head. Something to do with focusing the radiation straight into the ear.

Here's a quick quote, way too tired to search for more...

• Wired earpieces act as aerials and channel the phone’s microwaves straight into your ear, so they do not reduce your exposure as much as you think.
http://www.warriormatrix.com/about6616.html&sid=4d8db530b275f38d883a990740abd1cf

Sweet dreams :devil: :thumbsup:

Hopper
10-06-2010, 10:08 PM
Here's a quick quote, way too tired to search for more...
http://www.warriormatrix.com/about66...3a990740abd1cf
That made me giggle... I'll bet that guy wears aluminum foil around his head at nights so the aliens can't read his brain waves.


Wired earpieces act as aerials and channel the phone’s microwaves straight into your ear, so they do not reduce your exposure as much as you think.
Gee ... can any first year physics major tell me what's wrong with that brilliant statement? The article's pretty good for a brief chuckle though.

cresshead
10-07-2010, 01:50 AM
i'd prefer to use carrier pigeons, although they can also have their problems, they do work on a pay as you go tariff and are touch sensitive too.

Qexit
10-07-2010, 02:52 AM
i'd prefer to use carrier pigeons, although they can also have their problems, they do work on a pay as you go tariff and are touch sensitive too...and not forgetting that under extreme circumstances or provocation (e.g. an unwanted delivery from the bird :D) you can always 'eat the messenger' :D

colkai
10-07-2010, 03:55 AM
i'd prefer to use carrier pigeons, although they can also have their problems, they do work on a pay as you go tariff and are touch sensitive too.

That last bit sounds wrong on so many levels! :p :D

Elmar Moelzer
10-07-2010, 04:11 AM
It kinda cumulates, and I can feel it only after few minutes, gets better when I am changing ears, concentrates around ear area and never happens with cabled headset.
Maybe it is because how you are holding the phone, or respectively your head to the phone? Certain positions can cause strain on your muscles, e.g. the neck muscles in that area. This strain can cause head aches.
Since you do not position yourself the same way when you are using a hands free device of some sorts, you dont get the headaches.
Just saying. That could be another, plausible explanation.

T-Light
10-07-2010, 06:36 AM
Here's a chap running a test with non pro equipment (re Dangers of a wired headset). The radiation would seem to be around four times higher 50cm from the phone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlBL4trVrr0

Cresshead -

i'd prefer to use carrier pigeons, although they can also have their problems, they do work on a pay as you go tariff and are touch sensitive too.
Nice idea but it'll never take off :hey:

oliversimonnet
10-07-2010, 07:17 AM
wow
well im glad i don have eather of thos phones.
thats bad that.
i dont want a tumor hahaha :)

kyuzo
10-07-2010, 08:04 AM
Apparently it's not just your brain you need to worry about...

"The most troubling research, she says, threatens male fertility. Research in seven countries, including the U.S., China and Australia, suggests that keeping a switched-on mobile in a trouser pocket can have a drastic effect on sperm count.
‘All the research shows the same thing - if you take young men who are trying to become fathers, those who use mobile phones at least four hours a day have about half the sperm count of others,’ says Dr Davis. ‘Sperm exposed to mobile phone radiation in the lab is sicker, thinner and less capable of swimming.’"

Titus
10-07-2010, 08:24 AM
Apparently it's not just your brain you need to worry about...

"The most troubling research, she says, threatens male fertility. Research in seven countries, including the U.S., China and Australia, suggests that keeping a switched-on mobile in a trouser pocket can have a drastic effect on sperm count.
‘All the research shows the same thing - if you take young men who are trying to become fathers, those who use mobile phones at least four hours a day have about half the sperm count of others,’ says Dr Davis. ‘Sperm exposed to mobile phone radiation in the lab is sicker, thinner and less capable of swimming.’"

Remember the fact that in statistics correlation doesn't mean causation.

Oedo 808
10-07-2010, 08:44 AM
i'd prefer to use carrier pigeons, although they can also have their problems, they do work on a pay as you go tariff and are touch sensitive too.

:o

It's quite amusing that in some parts (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/8007897/Carrier-pigeons-are-faster-than-rural-broadband.html) you will have chosen wisely for your data transfer needs.

kyuzo
10-07-2010, 09:38 AM
Remember the fact that in statistics correlation doesn't mean causation.

Very true, but when they say ‘Sperm exposed to mobile phone radiation in the lab" it sounds like they're doing more than to investigate this than just looking at statistics...

Never had these worries with tin cans and bits of string... :)

Anyway, I don't have a mobile, so I'm not bothered by any of this at all.

kyuzo
10-07-2010, 09:41 AM
Odeo, just clicked on your link - that's brilliant!

Red_Oddity
10-07-2010, 10:26 AM
I'm still on the fence on mobile device 'radiation', it doesn't seem to be close to the wavelengths we usually describe with bad radiation (visible light is closer to gamma radiation then the range telecommunication works at, then again, that's not saying anything or a logical assumption to make anyway)

I'm more worried about the long time effects of the crap that gets put in our food then any radiation.

I also wonder why the SAR rating of these new devices is so high, as most modern devices have gotten lower and lower SAR ratings, my Desire for example has a SAR rating of 1.06, well below the max SAR rating of 2.0 that the EU allows.

This all feels like fear mongering, people have no idea how much (background) radiation we actually receive (and emit), the usual i believe was around 1.5 to 3.5 millisievert per year, but some places on earth have much higher levels than that (either man made (concrete cities) or through natural occurrence).
Anyway, you can get this info pretty easily on the internet, so no need in me filling a post with this.

Also, i'm not that worried about my mobile device's influence on my sperm count, i guess the thinning out of sperm counts i did as a teenager probably equates to carrying an entire phone store of devices in my pocket for the rest of my life.

Elmar Moelzer
10-07-2010, 11:13 AM
As I said, dont believe anything the mass media is trying to tell you, especially when it comes to your personal savety.
It is amazing how many people will tollerate the crapload of security bull that you have to go through at every airport in the world now (thanks US), but wont waste a second thought hitting the road with their car/motorcycle, even bike. Heck even crossing the street on foot is more dangerous than flying.
Same goes for radiation. People are affraid of anything that has the word radiation in it (thanks Greenpeace and co).
They worry about cell phone r a d i a t i o n but at the same time wont hesitate to shove an extra load of french fries with extra salt down their throat. They dont mind living a mile from a coal plant, which is much more dangerous to your health (but does not have the words nuclear and radiation associated with it, usually), but will cry and whine endlessly about anything related to nuclear power.
Heck even water power kills more people per terrawatt than nuclear power does.
http://nextbigfuture.com/2008/03/deaths-per-twh-for-all-energy-sources.html

If you put the radiation from your cellphone into relation to all this, then IMHO it is very negligible danger.

Titus
10-07-2010, 11:25 AM
Very true, but when they say ‘Sperm exposed to mobile phone radiation in the lab" it sounds like they're doing more than to investigate this than just looking at statistics...

Never had these worries with tin cans and bits of string... :)

Anyway, I don't have a mobile, so I'm not bothered by any of this at all.

Well, I've two kids and I'm keeping the phone in my pants just in case.

Jim_C
10-07-2010, 04:00 PM
Are we really worried about losing the type of people who use an iPhone so much that it would actually kill them?