PDA

View Full Version : Nvidia, UH, OH



Elmar Moelzer
10-05-2010, 05:36 AM
History repeats itself. It was the biggest mistake 3DFX ever made and Nvidia is about to make the same. Lets hope that they will limit this to just this one model at Best Buy.

http://www.guru3d.com/news/nvidia-starts-selling-their-own-graphics-cards-in-usa/

Red_Oddity
10-05-2010, 06:59 AM
That is such a dumb move IMHO, how can you expect your board partners to take this with a smile? How can a board partner ever compete with the company producing the basic components of their boards?

Elmar Moelzer
10-05-2010, 07:06 AM
Yepp, really stupid! Without their board partners, Nvidia is nothing.

BigHache
10-05-2010, 07:15 AM
Wow. Can't leave a good thing alone? Instead of focusing on the tech, now they also have to focus on marketing and retail their products instead of letting their partners do it for them. Maybe this will be the only model.

Elmar Moelzer
10-05-2010, 07:30 AM
Maybe this will be the only model.

That is what I am hoping for. I getting a really bad 3DFX vibe here.
Luckily Nvidia is bigger than 3DFX was back then, but they have had some really bad luck lately.
They have to replace thousands of laptops for faulty GPUs (after years of struggling in a class action lawsuit against angry users).
Fermi was waaay late, underwhelming and for that a little overprized.
Tegra1 and Tegra2 together sold less than 100k units.
Ion and Ion2 are having a hard time.
Generally Intel is doing a good job at giving Nvidia a hard time by preventing them from making chipsets for certain CPUs (and there were lawsuits and whatnot about that).
The laughing 3rd is Ati/AMD. Ati GPUs outsold Nvidias for the first time at the beginning of this year and right now it does not seem like that will change.
I think that AMDs GPUs are inferior to Nvidias, especially in regards to their OpenGL drivers and support.
So I am really worried. Idiotic decisions like that wont help Nvidia a bit. They might have been able to bully their board partners arround when they were basically without competition in the market, but now they should better play nice, or they will sell a lot less GPUs.

Elmar Moelzer
10-05-2010, 11:07 AM
I agree with everything you said Neverko. Nvidias OpenGL support has always been rock solid, so I am not surprised that Ion works well with Modo. Have you tried it with LW?

Elmar Moelzer
10-05-2010, 12:18 PM
I haven't really had GL issues with LightWave since getting rid of my last ATI card years ago.

I know what you mean ;)

cresshead
10-05-2010, 01:08 PM
my holding off from a new apple mac is cos they went all ATi on me!
once there's a nvidia based imac/mac mini or laptop i'll probably update to a new mac...
and install windows on it too of course!

Hieron
10-05-2010, 05:12 PM
my Macbook Air has Nvidia :) (all are) Sure it stutters at 1000 poly's, heats up like a stove after 10 seconds rendering, it throttles to 4 mhz after 20 seconds and probably would burn my hand, blow up and die after 30 seconds. But it is Nvidia and runs LW :)

I do love the thing. It's small, looks great and does what I need it for (on the road, clients, remote desktop into office). Would never pay full though. Got a demo model for 900 euros, it's the top model incl. SSD and comes with the guarantee. (put Windows on it the first day.. :))

rsfd
10-05-2010, 05:31 PM
@cresshead
I wouldn't worry that much. ATI on Mac is generally another deal compared to ATI on PC.
Have a look at barefeats here (http://www.barefeats.com/wst10g4.html).
You will find some more articles about ATI/Nvidia graphics.
With the latest SL Graphics Update Apple did quite a good job especially on ATI drivers.

Andrewstopheles
10-05-2010, 06:09 PM
I think NVidia is filling in the gaps to make sure there is a good supply of NVidia based cards and not relying solely on EVGA.
ATI has been making cards for years and their partners don't seem to mind.

Elmar Moelzer
10-06-2010, 02:59 AM
rsfd, I dont get the connection. These are mostly game tests here and this is Atis hiquest end graphics card versus Nvidias last generation model (which still does very well in comparison, actually).
I am also not so much concerned about OpenGL speed as I am concerned about full support for the latest version of OpenGL (and no, whatever the manufacturer or Apple claims does not count). Heck, I would already to be happy to see every feature of OpenGL 2.0 fully supported.
The sad truth is that while Ati makes rather good hardware, their drivers are sub par compared to Nvidia, especially their OpenGL drivers. Some things just will not work correctly, even though they should.
This has always been a problem with Ati and usually by the time they finally got their drivers right, the card was outdated.
Nvidia does have the occasional bad driver too, but at least you can search back a couple of versions and get a driver that does work.

rsfd
10-06-2010, 04:41 AM
^ it was just a statement about OSX, where Apple is involved into the development of the graphics card drivers.
That's why performance is lower than on Windows.
And that's why the difference between Nvidia and ATI isn't that big on OSX.
In fact, Apple has raised the performance on ATI cards with their latest Graphics update (due to the fact they switched to ATI).
If one uses Windows via Bootcamp too, the use of Nvidia card would be more rewarding though.

BigHache
10-06-2010, 09:36 AM
I've seen enough hardware issues with onboard ATI chips in Macs that I don't even want a no thank you helping. A few revisions back the iMacs were running NVidia, I wonder what happened.

rsfd
10-06-2010, 02:35 PM
ÖA few revisions back the iMacs were running NVidia, I wonder what happened.

license issues between Intel and Nvidia.

Elmar Moelzer
10-06-2010, 03:34 PM
license issues between Intel and Nvidia.
Yeah that is what I meant when I talked about "Intel giving Nvidia a hard time", earlier.
Nvidia seemingly axed one of their partners, XFX recently too. IMHO Nvidia is not in the position to play hardball with their partners right now. Well, we will all see what is going to happen.

Red_Oddity
10-06-2010, 05:42 PM
Which is a shame, because XFX had some really good cards.

Switched to a HIS Ati card at home, since i mostly do simple things there and the occasional video game (must say i haven't had too many problems with LW or Maya yet, only with CORE) and i got tired of the vacuum cleaner sounds almost every nVidia we have seem to make.

Snosrap
10-08-2010, 11:54 AM
I'd venture to say it's a Best Buy initiative to work directly with nVidia. Low margins on PC products are driving them to create their own brands - think Insignia - to improve margins. They probably work on a 5-15% margin on major electronic purchases (TV's, Laptops, Desktops, etc.) That's a fairly low return on their inventory investment and thatís why they always push cables, accessories and extra warranties.

Lightwolf
10-08-2010, 05:18 PM
license issues between Intel and Nvidia.
That's for chipsets though, not for graphics cards.
And ATI/AMD never had licenses to create Intel chipsets either.

Cheers,
Mike

rsfd
10-08-2010, 05:31 PM
But afaik it's the reason why Apple has switched to ATI graphics, as Apple now has all iMacs stuffed with i3, i5 and i7 cpu.

Lightwolf
10-08-2010, 05:37 PM
But afaik it's the reason why Apple has switched to ATI graphics, as Apple now has all iMacs stuffed with i3, i5 and i7 cpu.
I suppose ATI provide a better price/performance ratio and until recently a better power usage as well.
And the Macbook as well as the Mini still use nVidia. *shrugs* I suppose it can change any time Apple get a better deal from nVidia.

Cheers,
Mike

rsfd
10-08-2010, 05:47 PM
I suppose ATI provide a better price/performance ratio and until recently a better power usage as well.
And the Macbook as well as the Mini still use nVidia. *shrugs* I suppose it can change any time Apple get a better deal from nVidia.


;) yes, definitively.
(The MacBook and the Mini still hold Core2Duo cpu, btw)
Probably Apple isn't with Nvidia's plan to force GPU (GPU - CPU battle), ATI has come up with Nvidia in OpenCL performance and supports OpenSource Bullet physics, while Nvidia wants to push their proprietary physiX tech into the market.
(It may be personal taste, but I'm with ATI on that matter).
In general I would be more interested in Apple doing better drivers for each.