PDA

View Full Version : old newbie needs help



nivag
09-13-2010, 02:25 PM
hi' everyone, my first post I registered today , I shall try to make this request for help/ advice interesting but sadly I'm not that talented, so put the cat out and pour yourself a stiff drink,
, I purchased lightwave 8 about 5 years ago,( please don't go yet! )
my pc then , could not handle my artistic demands which covered a varied spectrum of boxes with wings and legs,
Modeller seemed to cope with this high tec stuff but when I sent object to lightwave and tried to animate, my precious objects just disappeared into a bounding box and some crashes, so I think, I just don't have enough ram processor etc,
anyway after almost five years working abroad with no access to a computer, well not the opportunity to do 3d or art I return to England .
I'm now settled and begin to reignite my interest in 3d which I've had before 3d was invented, I go to my budget limit and now have a i3 500hd 4gb ram imac, with GL
I install my dust covered copy of L/8, phone france for new install No;'
great' all installed ,
but as before I go into lightwave my objects and content objects low polygon 1mb disappear when moved, stop moving they appear again, is this normal, how can I work when i can't see what I'm animating. surely
my mac should handle this when L/8 came out before 4gb ram was invented
thanks for reading.
(hope this makes sense please ask for more info if needed)
nivag.

Hopper
09-13-2010, 02:36 PM
You need to adjust your bounding box threshold and set subdivision level to 0 or 1. Just play with it until you can get a good balance between movement speed and your objects disappearing.

Hit 'D' to open Display Preferences. click on the Display tab. You will find the bounding box threshold there.

nivag
09-13-2010, 02:46 PM
thanks Hopper I shall move swiftly to lightwave now and try;

nivag
09-13-2010, 03:36 PM
found bounding box threshold, in my haste I didn't notice the default setting but it was 5 with a lot of nought's something like this 500000 turned it down to 0 and 1, had the demon content object in scene but still when I drag move arrow or rotate it disappears when I stop moving it appears again after a couple of seconds, I know if I animate this figure all I would see is a box moving around,
is box threshold sub division level'

rsfd
09-13-2010, 03:51 PM
the default setting for bounding box threshold is 50 000.
You need to set higher values to keep your geometry visible in OpenGL.

nivag
09-13-2010, 04:11 PM
thanks Rsfd, I've now tried 0 to 100.000 in bounding box threshold and a few numbers in between but there seems to be no difference I've tried a simple animation moving object slowly away from camera and back 60 sec's all I see is a box

oliversimonnet
09-13-2010, 04:24 PM
iam woundering y the bounding box threshold eaven exists haha
isit ever usefull :

nivag
09-13-2010, 04:25 PM
how many polys Meglodon

my Demon figure has 11520 polys, it's content , came with L/8 disc's

oliversimonnet
09-14-2010, 08:17 AM
It is VERY useful if you've got a huge amount of poly's in your scene and moving anything takes minutes - unless you are in boudning box mode. The speed of your computer plays a HUGE part in this.
aaa ok :)
thanks for the info

Shnoze Shmon
09-14-2010, 08:20 AM
Cool! Useful piece of info.

Nivag I'd suggest making a simple 6 poly cube in modeler and animating that. If the problem still occurs it could be something else.

@ Megalodon
He did say he had an "i3 500hd 4gb ram imac, with GL." Not familiar with macs but that sounds like it's a decent system.

...of course the problem could be... he's using a mac :D (ducks and runs for cover as the mac users draw their weapons)

Dexter2999
09-14-2010, 10:09 AM
Please feel free to ignore this...

So you turned down the bounding box threshold. So instead of seeing a box move (which is what the bounding box function is for) the demon disappears and reappears when after a few seconds? This indicates an OpenGL RAM/update issue in my thinking. The bounding box threshold is precisely for taking some of the stress of the graphics card. But to be honest your system shouldn't be having issues with any of the demo material. Pretty much all of it is designed to be quick examples of what the software is capable of. And the old examples, from version 8 I think you said, shouldn't pose any real challenge to a system with the spec's you listed. You aren't running Photoshop or something in the background?
Sorry couldn't offer any real help.

Good Luck

rsfd
09-14-2010, 11:27 AM
@nivag
what's your setting for:
Object properties > Geometry > Display SubPatch Level?
Default is 3.0
If you have gone to higher values here, this might be your problem.
In this case, revert to 3.0 and it should be good.


[And sorry, there's a typo error in my previous post: Default for Bounding Box Threshold is 500000 (not 50 000)]

nivag
09-14-2010, 01:50 PM
Cool! Useful piece of info.

Nivag I'd suggest making a simple 6 poly cube in modeler and animating that. If the problem still occurs it could be something else.

@ Megalodon
He did say he had an "i3 500hd 4gb ram imac, with GL." Not familiar with macs but that sounds like it's a decent system.

...of course the problem could be... he's using a mac :D (ducks and runs for cover as the mac users draw their weapons)

many thanks all, for taking your time with this;

rsfd: yes default subpatch level 3.0

Dexter: no I'm not running any programs in background you mention GL/ update issue. my GRAPH CARD ATI radeonHD 4670 256 MB open G/L

Shnose shmon: I tryed this simple 6 poly cube last night and it stayed visible when I moved it
although I really can't believe this issue is my computers speed i work
with DAZ studio 3d figure's they are thousands of poly's plus skin textures
props cloths etc,
I'm thinking this is either a L/8 issue and I need some kind of update to fix or I'm just not pressing the right buttons

nivag
09-14-2010, 03:07 PM
Okay... not that you haven't already done this, but let's go through it again. First, are you running the last full version of LW8? I believe it was 8.5. In Layout, hit D, in the Display Option tab you will see Bounding Box Threshold - default is 50,000. Since your figure is under 12,000, this setting should have been fine. But you can just set it to much higher and it won't really affect anything unless you've got ALLOT of poly's. Just above the Bounding Box setting is another item - Dynamic Update. You have three options here: Off, Delayed, Interactive. Off I believe means that setting anything in the Bounding Box Threshold box will do nothing. Delayed means you will get something similar to what you are apparently getting. Interactive means it should update right away and you should NOT see any bounding box when you move your character. I don't know what the default parameter is here, but set it to Interactive.

Check all of these items and report back. :)

Hi Megalodon I've turn up bounding box 70,000 and used interactive but still getting same results,
if you have ever used Daz or Poser3d there are variuos settings the default in Poser was bounding box the figure shows ,then as soon as you move it, it turns into box untill you stop the action, so I used to switch
this very simply to texture and the figure showed all the time this seems to be very similar to whats happening here but don't no how to change it
my version is just L/8 not 8.5

nivag
09-14-2010, 03:18 PM
Megalodon.. 'I've done it! you were right from the start for some reason modeler told me a poly figure but in lightwave it was much higher
can't thankyou enough, if your ever over here I'll buy you a pint, many thanks to all who helped.

dwburman
09-14-2010, 08:35 PM
nivag,
Modeler is probably showing you the number of polygons used to make the subpatch cage for the object. If you turn the subdivisions down to 0 in Layout, then the number of polys should match what Modeler is telling you.

Lightwave 8 was made before Apple switched to Intel processors from Power PC processors so LW is running in Mac OS's Rosetta mode which means there is an extra layer of emulation happening behind the scenes. The first version of Lightwave that will run natively on an Intel CPU (What Apple calls a Universal Binary or UB version) is either LW 9.2 or 9.3. You might get some slow down due to that as well. Unfortunately, that's a paid upgrade and a fairly large expense if 3D is just a hobby.

nivag
09-15-2010, 03:47 AM
nivag,
Modeler is probably showing you the number of polygons used to make the subpatch cage for the object. If you turn the subdivisions down to 0 in Layout, then the number of polys should match what Modeler is telling you.

Lightwave 8 was made before Apple switched to Intel processors from Power PC processors so LW is running in Mac OS's Rosetta mode which means there is an extra layer of emulation happening behind the scenes. The first version of Lightwave that will run natively on an Intel CPU (What Apple calls a Universal Binary or UB version) is either LW 9.2 or 9.3. You might get some slow down due to that as well. Unfortunately, that's a paid upgrade and a fairly large expense if 3D is just a hobby.

Thanks dwburman: yes it's just a hobby for me, so I'm going to stick with L/8 for a while and learn as much as I can , 9 or 10 will be a little way of for me yet.
Do you think this is the best way to go, or are 9 and 10 very differant' it's very interesting regarding apple processors things are starting to make sense now.
thanks again.

Shnoze Shmon
09-15-2010, 03:21 PM
nivag watch the classifieds buy/sell/trade LightWave 3D down at the bottom of the forums. Occasionally someone will sell a seat and sometimes they make really nice offers with stuff thrown in to sweeten the pot. That might be a great way to for you to get an upgrade at a lower cost.

dwburman
09-15-2010, 03:28 PM
Some of the big changes that were made in the LW 9 cycle were huge improvements in radiosity speed and capability, new camera and lighting systems so more types can be added, and a nodes system for more powerful surface editing and displacements. I may be missing a few big features since 9 has been out for a while.

nivag
09-15-2010, 03:37 PM
That depends on what you are doing. If you use radiosity at all, then upgrading to 9.6 is a no-brainer - it's MUCH faster and far better than 8.5. And of course if you upgrade now, I believe you get CORE when it ships too. Fortunately between 8.5 and 9.6, there isn't much additional learning to do - the program looks pretty much the same. CORE will probably change that.

:goodluck:
Hi Megalodon
The one thing I've always wanted to do is make short little animations for my children and get them involved with the story and ideas for models etc
so there's no high tec stuff just yet, well this would be high tec for me, so thats the general idea and a learning curve for me also, 9.6 is now on my wish list, so some serious sweet talking is needed before christmas.

Shnoze Shmon and Dwburman you both posted as I was typing above, must be that time of the evening or afternoon were you are; radiosity has been mentioned a few times with L/9.6 what is radiosity I'm sure I've got it on L/8 but have not ventured there yet , and i'll will watch for classifieds shnose thanks, but I don't think I can upgrade from L/8 to L9.6 it would be a new install

I don't what to exhaust this thread as you have all been so helpful so will post new request for advice in new thread soon, thanks.
and if anyone has a question about gardening I would gladly help .

dwburman
09-15-2010, 04:36 PM
Basically, Radiosity/Global Illumination are more advanced lighting systems that take into account light bouncing off one surface and hitting another as well as light being emitted from luminous surfaces. It provides an added level of realism, but there are ways to fake the look if you can't deal with the render times.

nivag
09-15-2010, 05:10 PM
Basically, Radiosity/Global Illumination are more advanced lighting systems that take into account light bouncing off one surface and hitting another as well as light being emitted from luminous surfaces. It provides an added level of realism, but there are ways to fake the look if you can't deal with the render times.

one thing, lighting can make or break a perfect 3d image I'll take this on board thanks; Dwburmam