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Sarford
08-31-2010, 03:14 AM
Hi Guys,

I'm working on a little animation and even before rendering the project folder is already about 40 Gb. After completion I guess it will be closer to 100 Gb. What I'm looking for is a way to archive that amount of data in a safe way.

DVD's aren't an option because they deteriorate over time. I have a load of archive CD's from ten years old, non of them are readable anymore.

What do the pro's to archive their stuff? And do you keep all the seperate passes and frames or do you throw them all away after making the video?

down_in_black
08-31-2010, 05:48 AM
I can recommend the use of small 2.5" low powered external drives. They feel more durable then the larger 3.5" with external power supply. They are also in a small compact design.

Short term I backup, archive all data on a server. Then after a while I move data over to these small externals for long term storage.

Then as new devices come to the market you can move your data on to that and discard the old drives.

I also save all data produced during a project, can be useful in the future.

Then it's just a matter of how paranoid you have to be about data loss. Do you need double copies or maybe even triple copies on separate locations. That is something you have to decide.

rezman
08-31-2010, 03:19 PM
You are so right about cds and dvds...and hard drives can even have the same problem. They are a finite resource when you want a permanent storage solution. When I had my last hard drive issue I finally decided to try Mozy (no I have no connection to them). With this solution you back up everything, forever, for $5 a month. Seems like a no-brainer now that I've done it.

Hopper
08-31-2010, 05:26 PM
DVD's aren't an option because they deteriorate over time. I have a load of archive CD's from ten years old, non of them are readable anymore.

Use the correct DVD media and that's not a problem. Use MAM-A (phthalocyanine dye) gold or silver label DVD's and store them just like you would vinyl records. Average lifespan is estimated at just over 300 years for gold label and 50 years for silver label.

And yes, this is an obvious laboratory estimation since the media dye hasn't even been around for that long, but even minimal rough estimates through UL Laboratory testing are well beyond the 15 year mark and still producing the same results. Standard "old school" DVD's using standard quality dyes average at just over a 4 year lifespan with degradation starting at just over 2.

And of course, realistically, none of this even matters. Because of the obsolescence time line for hardware, you will be converting your backups to new media if you intend on really using them in the future. (i.e. when's the last time you restored some data from your 1620bp reel to reel tape system). By the time the data on these discs have degraded, you wouldn't be able to find a device to read them anyway.

...kind of like trying to find somewhere to play your favorite 8-track tapes.

JeffrySG
08-31-2010, 06:45 PM
That's a lot of files but you could also think about off-site storage with someone like Amazon S3. You could delete all the unnecessary files and then compress all the other files (ie zip). If they are really important it might be worth the yearly fees involved. I've been using AmazonS3 for a few years now and I'm very happy that my work files are backed up safely no matter what happens to my computer or office, etc. I don't have files that are as big as what you have thought so the cost is not too bad for me.

Silkrooster
08-31-2010, 10:51 PM
My concern with off site solutions is tampering. These hackers are a clever bunch. For the price of external hard drives, its hard to beat them. 1TB is below $100 now. Just amazing at how fast the prices are dropping. Actually it would be best to have an additional HD for added security.
I have yet to have a CD or DVD go bad. The only time I have seen any issues is when someone does not know how to handle them and scratches the tar out of them. Actually I wish they would make an affordable 1TB DVD. Now that would be cool.

erikals
09-01-2010, 01:41 AM
...When I had my last hard drive issue I finally decided to try Mozy (no I have no connection to them). With this solution you back up everything, forever, for $5 a month. Seems like a no-brainer now that I've done it.

interesting :]

erikals
09-01-2010, 01:43 AM
My concern with off site solutions is tampering. These hackers are a clever bunch. For the price of external hard drives, its hard to beat them. 1TB is below $100 now.

...just remember to move the HD to another location
(in case of fire /robbery)

eagleeyed
09-01-2010, 03:02 AM
I also use Mozy Home edition.

It also detects any file changes, and will keep a archive of all the revisions for a short period of time, so if you do make a change to a scene file for instance, hate it, cant easily revert and have no other copy. Just hope Mozy has done a auto backup and presto, revision is there.

Home is $5 a month per system, Business is more expensive at 0.50 a Gig plus a fee per system.

TheGarf
09-01-2010, 06:10 AM
Read trough this thread for several horror stories and several suggestions on how to solve the issue, it was an eye opener for me:

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94674

The moral of that story is NOT to rely on single hard disks for backup.

safetyman
09-01-2010, 06:47 AM
This is as good a source as any on this subject: http://www.itl.nist.gov/iad/894.05/docs/CDandDVDCareandHandlingGuide.pdf

Published by the National Institute of Science and Technology (part of the US Dept of Commerce) -- they basically say what Hopper said: if you buy the best quality DVDs, store and care for them properly, they will outlast the technology used to create them.

Myagi
09-01-2010, 07:31 AM
My concern with off site solutions is tampering. These hackers are a clever bunch.

If you select an offsite solution that provides the option to encrypt data with your own key, it's practically unhackable (unless they hack your own computer and get the key, in which case they'd also have access to the data so that point is kinda moot).

What that does is that all data that leaves your computer, and gets stored offsite, is 100% gibberish to anyone but the decryption key owner (you). Not even the storage service provider can read it. Of course if you lose your key, you're toast ;)

JeffrySG
09-01-2010, 01:19 PM
The one main reason I really like offsite its that I know I'll be bad about keeping two or three copies. One at home, one somewhere else and a second copy in a fire/water proof vault. I'm pretty sure many of the offsite options use 256 bit encryption but to be honest, if someone stole my work files it wouldn't really do them very much. What if someone breaks into your house and steals your discs? I worry about damage, fire, flood, DVDs going bad, etc. more than I worry about someone stealing my files, tbh. Everybody's backup needs will be different though. It's nice to have many options these days.

Sarford
09-03-2010, 06:53 AM
Thanks for all the great suggestion everyone! Offsite solutions are a great option as a second back-up. I only wonder, as they archive active drives on your system, when you remove projects from that drive, will they be removed from that offsite backup also?

So the solution will be to buy extra drives for back-up. I looked at the REV drives, but they are a bit expensive and Iomega doesn't sell the drives anymore. Too bad because it was a nice and tidy way for backup. Now you will end up with all kinds and forms of different drives.

eagleeyed
09-03-2010, 07:52 AM
I only wonder, as they archive active drives on your system, when you remove projects from that drive, will they be removed from that offsite backup also?

I am not sure how the others work, there are quite a few around. Mozy deletes files or old revisions after 30 days apparently. I have never had to retrieve a backup of a file more than a couple days deleted so not certain yet, thats what I have been told though.

Trev.T
09-03-2010, 09:03 AM
Have you looked at the DROBO?

It's quite dear for the main unit, but it uses regular hard drives and you can just stick a bigger drive in when you need the storage.

www.drobo.com