PDA

View Full Version : Jumpbacks and VT3, VT2



technorev
09-18-2003, 11:10 AM
For some time now, I've been experimenting with a problem I'm having with Jumpbacks and the VT3 & VT2. The problem is that I cannot get three layers to run without having to render the timeline. The three layers are a motion jumpback background, a green screen video layer and a motion jumpback lower thirds layer. At first Tech Service had me tweek my preferences. I tweeked those preferences until that Parakeet developed laryngitis. Then, I was told that my system wasn't fast enough. So, I built a new system including two P4 2.4 Xeon processors and all the approved components that NewTek requires.
I had the same problem. So, tech service suggested that my problem was the IDE drives. I gave up and ordered a turnkey system from an approved dealer with the Xeon processors 2.4 and the SCSI drives. All excited to see my problem disappear, I tried my same experiment. And the same problem occurred. The video would not play without being manually rendered. That is not even waiting for the system to background render would stop the problem. When I play the timeline the video stutters and will not play smoothly. We concluded that something is wrong with the overlay feature. Because when I take the overlay enable off of the green screen layer the stuttering stops. Or if I am just trying to layer the jumpback clips and I take the overlay enable off the stuttering stops. By the way, if I'm just using camera generated video including green screen footage, I can get 9 to 10 layers of video to play without rendering or even background rendering. My problem only occurs when I use jumpbacks. And now I know it is not my hardware problem as the situation occurs on my built system and the turnkey SCSI systems. Any thoughts?

Jim Capillo
09-18-2003, 11:18 AM
I don't have jumpbacks, but are they being rendered out as something other than .rtv's (avi's, etc.)?

If so, you might want to try and save them out as an rtv and try again. I had an avi clip that had greenscreen in it and together with looking lousy, it wouldn't play back without stuttering. Rendering it out as an rtv fixed the stuttering.

technorev
09-18-2003, 03:34 PM
Thanks Jim for the info, but I forgot to mention that. Yes, I did convert the jumpbacks in Aura and output the same as an RTV file. That is what's so baffling about this. It seemed to me that there should be no difference between video if all the videos are in RTV format. And, just in case this question comes up, yes, I tried it both ways, I tried the Juicer, and Aura. Juicer versions had more problems including not being able to see the alpha channel. Thanks prompting me to add this additional insight.

Technorev

Paul Lara
09-18-2003, 05:07 PM
What happens if you set the Preference PCI bus setting to PCI-X, 64-bit, no limit?

technorev
09-18-2003, 06:33 PM
Thanks for your patience, but we tried that too. I've experimented with all associated preference settings, and all without exception do nothing to solve our problems. We've pretty much concluded that VT3 doesn't like jumpbacks, and our only, regrettably, only recourse is to manually render those segments.

TechnoRev

BenBrown
09-18-2003, 07:10 PM
FWIW: I think I read somewhere that newer Jumpbacks are rendered at 60 Frames/second to be compatable with a wider variety of speeds and give higher resolution when rendered into fields(or something like that). Maybe this has somethig to do with it. Did you use the Digital Juice converter before going to Aura?

HTH

BEN

pgrimpo
09-18-2003, 08:58 PM
I always take my jumpbacks into After Effects and spit them out as either DV or RTV and haven't had any problems. I'm guessing you must have some type of setting wrong in Aura when you render them back out.

-Grimps

Demon8
09-18-2003, 10:52 PM
Could you explain the process you use to bring them into After Effects and will I be able to save them in any format with the alpha channel. Or if you can tell me what the Aura setting would be, so I go and double check those. I thank you in advance for any help you can give.

technorev
09-18-2003, 11:48 PM
I can answer the "how did you bring the jumpbacks into Aura?" question, but I cannot answer the After Effects one as I've never tried to import jumpbacks into AE.

But in Aura, I choose import, then sequence, navigate to the jumpbacks folder, select one and then hit enter. A window appears and I choose how many frames of the sequence I want and we're off. Once the sequence is loaded into Aura, I then make sure that the mode setting is to RTV (I'm going from memory and am not in front of my VT3) and then choose export and export the sequence as a RTV video clip.

I then place the clip(s) on the timeline and the rest you can read above.

TechnoRev

SBowie
09-19-2003, 06:19 AM
What is the source resolution of the sequences you're loading, and what format is the Aura project you're loading them into? (If you're using AuraVT, you can check the project res. using the Project menu Modify commmand.)

JReble
09-19-2003, 07:20 AM
I don't know if this is related, but I've got some similar issues on VT3 with a few clips I captured while using VT2. Some regular video shot on our set at 720x486 standard RTV settings and recorded to disk in VT2 exhibits some problems in VT3. The old clips play fine by themselves, but if I try to put even a TGA still overlay or a second laver of video supered over it, it will not play back properly. The green light over the play button is on, but it will always play back choppy. If I remove the TGA or second video file overlay (if used) the original clip plays fine. All the clips are on the video drives and I don't have this problem with newly recorded clips in VT3. I don't seem to have this problem on all old video clips, but then again, I don't have many remaining on the drives that was recorded in VT2.

Dan Hong
09-19-2003, 11:12 AM
Hey Rev,
Long time no talk. Steve's got it. The default resolution of Aura is 720 X 480, VT wants to see 720 X 486. If you've got the smaller resolution, VT has to stretch every frame. I did this 2 or 3 times before I figured it out.

technorev
09-20-2003, 01:01 AM
Hey Dan, How are you doing? I'll write you soon. But let me say for all to hear [read], I love cyberspace and I love this forum. "Cause this problem was cookin' my grits. I just couldn't imagine after having built a super fast machine that I would still be having this problem. I can hardly wait to get to my machine and try this. But, the explanation makes sense. I'm sure this is it. Thanks to all

TechnoRev.

Videonut
09-22-2003, 09:25 PM
I too use jumpbacks in wedding and commercial spots. I have tried for days to get the right combination on the settings and tried the different resolution settings. The end result is the same, with multiple layers, I get studdering. I cannot remember if this happened in VT2 but it does in the VT3. As soon as I render out the mix, no problems. Until I figure it out, I just render out the block and keep on working. I have not had any problems with the end result so there is no problems other than any changes to that area require a lot of work to change. If anyone figures it out, I would like to know that as well. Just as a bit of info, the people at jumpbacks know about this problem also.

technorev
09-22-2003, 09:48 PM
Well, I was so excited about the possibliity that we had found the answer, but my staff tried the resolution suggestion, bu the jumpbacks are still stuttering. The only word left in my vocabulary appropriate for expressing my feelings is exasperation.

In the valley of dispair

TechnoRev

technorev
09-22-2003, 09:51 PM
I forgot to add that my laymen observation make me suspicious of the overlay feature. Because when ever I turn off the overlay on the green screen footage the stuttering stops. ????


TechnoRev

SBowie
09-23-2003, 06:40 AM
Originally posted by technorev
Well, I was so excited about the possibliity that we had found the answer, but my staff tried the resolution suggestion, bu the jumpbacks are still stuttering.
Errr... I'm still waiting for your answer to my questions above. What is the source resolution for the Jumpback (do you know the field order they were prepared in?),and what Project format are you using in Aura (resolution and field order please....)

(Maybe the problem *is* in VT-Edit, but we don't have enough info here.)

bradl
09-23-2003, 08:18 AM
Probably the last thing you want to hear is somebody saying "It works fine here" so I won't say that but ... shhhh... it does.

I stacked up six on top of each other, 5 in overlay mode, and turned on soft shadow for good measure. Got a green light in about 25 seconds and then playback was smooth. All 720 X 486 NTSC Jumpbacks some prepared with Juicer and some in Aura.

Dual 2.2G Xeon box running XP and RC09.

Hope you work things out...

Demon8
09-23-2003, 10:57 AM
The source resolution is 720 x 576 and the project settings under modify project is 720x486, frame rate 29:97, Ratio:0.900-Field Odd, NTSC D1. I start out by selecting D1 RTV mode, then import the sequence. Then I export sequence in the same manner I imported it.

Demon8
09-23-2003, 11:13 AM
Hello Brad, Doing layers like you just explained isn't our problem. When we do three (3) layers 1 being DJ Animated Background, 2 being Greenscreen footage and 3 being DJ Animated Lowerthird. But we turn off the overlay on the greensceen footage the stuttering stops. Even tried putting two (2) DJ Backgrounds with Greenscreen in between with overlay on, play without a problem until I turned the Alpha down 1/2 way. Just to test the reaction of this test. Any other suggestion are welcomed.

bradl
09-23-2003, 11:45 AM
ah, it had been a while since I read the first post about the green screen, thinking this had boilded down to a JB issue. Sorry. Will add a green screen or two to the mix and let you know the results...

JReble
09-23-2003, 01:50 PM
I'm thinking there's a glitch somewhere in the T3 overlay function as it relates to rendering. Like I posted earlier, using overlays or keys on the timeline in "some" instances results in that section of the timeline studdering. There's some problem meshing between certain two clips when overlay is on, but I can't find any codec or format differences. There must be some other factor that is not as easily identified.