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littlewaves
07-30-2010, 05:28 AM
the system requirements for LW10 posted here (http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/lw10.php) aren't very specific for the Mac

For example it lists the graphics card as "N/A" surely this is not really the case?

For example will a core 2 duo mac mini with integrated intel graphics be enough just becasue it has Snow Leopard?

I'm assuming VPR requires an advanced graphics card?

3DGFXStudios
07-30-2010, 06:20 AM
vpr isn't a GPU renderer so you don't need a good videocard for that.

littlewaves
07-30-2010, 06:31 AM
ah okay.

But as the windows requirements seem to be quite specific on the graphics card I still think there must be something that requires it.

If windows requires
NVIDIAŽ GeForceŽ 8400 series (minimum) or ATI X1600 (minimum)

And my imac only has NVIDIA GeForce 7600 then I assume that's not enough? but all the system requirements for the Mac say is that it needs intel processor and Snow Leopard. That covers a lot of machines with a very wide variety of Ati Nvidia and intel graphics hardware.

This is where the Mac users need someone like Chilton! I realise Windows users will always get priority as they are the majority but this is just the sort of query that Chilton would have just popped up and answered.

3DGFXStudios
07-30-2010, 07:35 AM
a geforce 7600 is good enough. Lightwave runs also on a mac mini with windows installed on it and the standard Intel graphics ship. But a better video card is just faster. The current lw doesn't use any of the cool stuff that's on your video card. On a pc you can even run it with a geforce 2.

littlewaves
07-30-2010, 07:48 AM
Thanks, I'm specifically talking about LW10 though not the current version.

Only because the min req. for windows is a better graphics card than the LW9 system req.s

rsfd
07-30-2010, 08:30 AM
a better graphics card can also offer better OpenGL preview quality (e.g. some of the new decent features as AO preview and the like).

I hope that NT will communicate that sort of info in a better way even for Mac users.
As Apple e.g. offers only ATI graphics for the new iMac range and it's often said that LW runs better on Nvidia this would be an important info. Of course, the "LW better on Nvidia" opinion could also just be related to Windows systems.
And I hope that we can now start asking about LW 10 (HC) features and get answers without restrictions.
That would allow to clear things up for those who have to decide if it's useful to join HC before release of LW10 or not.

littlewaves
07-30-2010, 08:37 AM
well I certainly think some proper info on system requirements ought to be forthcoming to Mac users before it's too late to upgrade via the $495 hardcore option

rsfd
07-30-2010, 09:02 AM
That's what many people are thinking about, I guess.
Would also like to get an info if the Mac version currently equals the Windows version at all.
There were never any screenshots or presentation videos showing a Mac or Linux version.

littlewaves
07-30-2010, 09:16 AM
I noticed someone referred to a macbook pro in one of the presentation videos but I expect it was running bootcamp!

I'm afraid that since Chilton left we really don't seem to get any Mac specific communication from NT aside from very (and I mean VERY) occasional updates on 64bit beta. Mac relevant bug reports I've submitted have been answered by people who have seemed so unfamiliar with basic Mac conventions (like cmd+c for copy) that I'm afraid I don't believe they actually have anyone concentrating on the Mac side at all.

When core was first announced they made a big deal about how because everything was coded in QT (or something) there would now be parity between OS's.

I was considering bootcamp on the mac for lightwave but then I guess my system really doesn't meet the minimum spec if I go by the LW10 windows prefs.

It'd just be nice to know whether or not I have to buy a new mac to run LW10 before I shell out 495

rsfd
07-30-2010, 10:20 AM
I noticed someone referred to a macbook pro in one of the presentation videos but I expect it was running bootcamp!
didn't notice that at all - but with bootcamping you're most likely right!


I'm afraid that since Chilton left we really don't seem to get any Mac specific communication from NT aside from very (and I mean VERY) occasional updates on 64bit beta. Mac relevant bug reports I've submitted have been answered by people who have seemed so unfamiliar with basic Mac conventions (like cmd+c for copy) that I'm afraid I don't believe they actually have anyone concentrating on the Mac side at all.
I've made similar experiences. I imagine a Windows developer team where one or two guys do "some Mac stuff from time to time".
But they rarely manage to optimize for OSX, they just port and sometimes don't even check if it's working at all.


When core was first announced they made a big deal about how because everything was coded in QT (or something) there would now be parity between OS's.
that was the C++ thing.
Yes, and I was at first very happy as it sounded that 3rd party plugins would be platform independent.
Well, in the meantime it shows up that the plugin format is just a container format - developers still have to compile a Mac or Linux version and if they don't do: well, then it's "Windows only" again.


I was considering bootcamp on the mac for lightwave but then I guess my system really doesn't meet the minimum spec if I go by the LW10 windows prefs.

It'd just be nice to know whether or not I have to buy a new mac to run LW10 before I shell out 495
Yep, problem with the new iMacs is that they only offer ATI graphics, which are usually good on OSX but doesn't are that good under Windows.
LW (and most 3D software) seems to perform better with Nvida graphics under Windows, as the ATI Windows drivers aren't that good.
Up-coming weeks will become an arduous time. :(

3dworks
07-30-2010, 12:10 PM
....
There were never any screenshots or presentation videos showing a Mac or Linux version.

did you see the now removed/ edited version of rob powers siggraph 2010 virtual set/ avatar video? you could see a dense avatar scene walktrough in LW 10's RT opengl on a macbook (air?) under OSX!

littlewaves
07-30-2010, 12:27 PM
did you see the now removed/ edited version of rob powers siggraph 2010 virtual set/ avatar video? you could see a dense avatar scene walktrough in LW 10's RT opengl on a macbook (air?) under OSX!

Man I'd love to find out that Rob Powers is a Mac user! It's not like it would hurt the PC guys any

3dworks
07-30-2010, 12:57 PM
Man I'd love to find out that Rob Powers is a Mac user! It's not like it would hurt the PC guys any

nah, sorry to disappoint you, that was merely used to show that the new opengl will work well also with pretty weak cpu and opengl spec portables... but maybe it is of consolation that afaik lino grandi is using lightwave on mac (...but unfortunately not in his great rigging video)!

littlewaves
07-30-2010, 01:05 PM
nah, sorry to disappoint you, that was merely used to show that the new opengl will work well also with pretty weak cpu and opengl spec portables... but maybe it is of consolation that afaik lino grandi is using lightwave on mac (...but unfortunately not in his great rigging video)!

great! they use a Mac as an example of a crappy system! There's a conspiracy here I tell you!

I can see I'm going to end up buying a PC just for lightwave stuff
Damn I wish apple and pixar would get it on and release i-Marrionette

3dworks
07-30-2010, 01:16 PM
great! they use a Mac as an example of a crappy system! There's a conspiracy here I tell you!

I can see I'm going to end up buying a PC just for lightwave stuff
Damn I wish apple and pixar would get it on and release i-Marrionette

whyever buy a PC? a macpro with bootcamp is working great here. btw, since 9.6.1/LWHC i'm switching maybe once a week - the only really missing UB64 plugins being fprime and HDI, now. but VPR is here and HDI is on the way, apparently ;)

littlewaves
07-30-2010, 01:27 PM
I can't afford a Mac Pro. I have a four year old imac. It's not much but it does me fine for most things. It's intel Core2Duo and I know it should run snow leopard fine (the only two conditions on the LW10 req.s)

But this is why I started this thread in the first place. I want someone (preferably from Newtek - although I acknowledge they're probably fairly busy right now) to tell me that LW10 (not 9 I'm already running that fine) will really work okay on ANY intel mac with 10.6 installed like it says on the system requirements despite not having a graphics card of the same standard as the ones in the PC requirements.

In short I am questioning the "N/A" in the graphics card bit of the Mac req's. I mean how CAN it be not applicable on a Mac if it is on a PC.

I'm afraid unless someone can give me some cool science about how Macs can use any old graphics (including the integrated crap on my Macbook) then my suspicion is that NT just haven't bothered checking if stuff runs on the MAC.

littlewaves
07-30-2010, 01:29 PM
Not meaning to rant BTW!

And 3dworks your info on not switching so much is encouraging!

(I assume you mean you're only switching to windows once a week - not other way around?)

rsfd
07-31-2010, 06:49 AM
did you see the now removed/ edited version of rob powers siggraph 2010 virtual set/ avatar video? you could see a dense avatar scene walktrough in LW 10's RT opengl on a macbook (air?) under OSX!

Unfortunately not, I only saw the version that is actually online now.
Was it a live walkthrough or a Quicktime presentation? :D
(uups, sarcastic mode off - I'm just under the impression that LW10-Mac to PC could be similar as 9.6.1-Mac to PC. I'm only using 9.6.1-Mac these days when I'm checking bugs or issues of others to confirm. As of now, I'm exclusively bootcamping when I need to use LW. But I would love to see/read/hear that 10-Mac equals 10-Win completely, as I still don't feel comfortable when using Windows)

CaptainMarlowe
08-01-2010, 12:59 PM
So unfortunately true...

ramccombe
08-02-2010, 01:22 PM
It looks like PPC Macs are not on list. So is it true that an Intel Mac is required for LightWave10?:cursin:

littlewaves
08-02-2010, 01:31 PM
I understand your disappointment but PPC is pretty old now and as far as I know Snow Leopard won't even run on it.

Had to go one day!

ramccombe
08-02-2010, 01:51 PM
I understand your disappointment but PPC is pretty old now and as far as I know Snow Leopard won't even run on it.

Had to go one day!

Yeah, if I wasn't so broke these days it wouldn't matter. I'd just buy a new Mac. Oh well!!

Markc
08-02-2010, 02:06 PM
Yes I believe LW10 requires an Intel Mac and 10.6.
Roll on August 9th (MacPro release date)

littlewaves
08-02-2010, 03:02 PM
Yes I believe LW10 requires an Intel Mac and 10.6.
Roll on August 9th (MacPro release date)

apparently doesn't require a graphics card though. (listed as n/a)

lightwave 10 on the mac is presumably a purely audio experience!

I've always wanted to work on 3D radio plays!

rsfd
08-03-2010, 12:11 AM
Yes I believe LW10 requires an Intel Mac and 10.6. ...

There are so many issues with 9.6.1 on G5 that NT apparently just took the "easy way out".
Doesn't quite match the early announcements, but well, we all knew that day would come.
It now just came a bit earlier then expected.

@littlewaves:
NT should at least post the Macs that they have tested and that are running 10 well (e.g. "iMac late 2007, MacPro early 2008" and the like).
Mac users mostly hold the default or a BTO graphics card, they rarely upgrade the graphics later on (as there aren't that much possibilities).
We'll see if they deliver.

Markc
08-03-2010, 12:07 PM
Am waiting for http://www.barefeats.com/ to get hold of one of the new MacPro's to see the real world difference before I buy (currently still using G5)

dwburman
08-05-2010, 08:32 PM
It could be that the graphics card for the mac is listed as Not Applicable because you have virtually no choice in graphics cards. You can really only replace the graphics cards in the MacPros and then you only have like 3 choices. The G5 is over 5 years old so I wouldn't be surprised if they're not supporting it.

I am assuming that LW will run, you just won't have access to the features your graphics card won't support.

It could also mean that Apple hasn't written drivers that support all the new features of the cards so it doesn't really matter which card you have, you're not gonna get the real-time AO or refractions.

Still, it WOULD be nice to see that LW10 will work on the machine you currently have.

The list is "System Specifications for LightWave 10". It doesn't say if it's a minimum requirements list or if it's an optimal configuration list.

littlewaves
08-06-2010, 12:44 AM
yeah it's all just too vague for my liking and I'm afraid the obvious conclusion is that Newtek simply aren't bothering to test on the Mac.

I guess there must be some guys in Hardcore with Macs but then if they told us whether it worked or not they'd be breaking NDA

dglidden
08-26-2010, 08:37 AM
that was the C++ thing.
Yes, and I was at first very happy as it sounded that 3rd party plugins would be platform independent.
Well, in the meantime it shows up that the plugin format is just a container format - developers still have to compile a Mac or Linux version and if they don't do: well, then it's "Windows only" again.


This makes me sad.

A littlewaves said, it would be nice to hear from somebody that there is a mac version that works at all but that would certainly break NDA.

I'm so so tempted by the LW10 preorder upgrade but there is so little information from NT. I play with 3d as a hobby, so I can't be bothered to go set up a windows system just to use LW, but I certainly do enjoy what I do with it.

As a Mac user I'm not looking forward to being disappointed again by the announcements that there will be platform parity, then seeing the Mac version in perpetual "Open Beta."

I also noticed that with Jay's initial announcement, he said that CORE will be "supported" on Windows, Mac and Linux but since then, there has been no mention of Linux support at all. Mac has been almost as bad, but they at least show that under system requirements for the LW10 presale.

Unfortunately with NT's silence on so much of this information, and from experience with the Mac Cocoa "port" I just don't trust them to have LW10/CORE on Mac (or even Linux) on par with the Windows version. Not to mention the disaster with plugins we'll likely have again.

I miss Chilton. :(

littlewaves
08-26-2010, 09:23 AM
I miss Chilton. :(

ditto.

bring back Chilton!

littlewaves
08-31-2010, 05:16 AM
I sent customer services an email just over a month ago specifically asking about the vagueness of the graphics card being listed as "n/a" in the mac requirements.

As yet I've received no response. I've re-sent the email to them today.

Chuck
09-21-2010, 09:12 AM
the system requirements for LW10 posted here (http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/lw10.php) aren't very specific for the Mac

For example it lists the graphics card as "N/A" surely this is not really the case?

For example will a core 2 duo mac mini with integrated intel graphics be enough just becasue it has Snow Leopard?

I'm assuming VPR requires an advanced graphics card?

Apologies that it has taken us a while to put the specifications in place for the Mac graphics. VPR in Layout and CORE is actually dependent on the CPU for rendering, but the new hardware shading features in CORE will really push a graphics adapter. After testing the features and also reviewing the various configurations that Apple has offered with the Intel processor systems, we have change the entry in the requirements table from N/A to ATI or nVidia graphics adaptor with dedicated RAM. As development continues, if we need to make more specific recommendations, we'll update the entry as needed.

littlewaves
09-21-2010, 09:57 AM
Thanks Chuck, that's helpful info.