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MAUROCOR
07-19-2010, 01:56 PM
Well, right now I am working in a Tank and the first step was to apply a Wheel Rotator expression to the wheel to make it rotate according to the motion of the tank. This part is done and it is ok.

And now I have to animate the thread, and right here is where my problem begin. I have whatched this amazing tutorial of Proton teaching how to create a morph to the thread and how to apply it in Layout. In this case he used a repeated post behaviour and this way he had a continuous behaviour of the morph and the ilusion the thread is rolliing perfectly.

That is great BUT what I need is to make this continuous morph to work according to the motion of the tank too.
I tryed a lot of thing and I didnīt get anything right.
Someone have a solution for that?
Thanks in advance!!!

nickdigital
07-19-2010, 02:10 PM
You've already considered Vehicle Rigger?
http://vehiclerigger.walen.se/

This'll automate everything that you need/want.

Cageman
07-19-2010, 02:24 PM
You've already considered Vehicle Rigger?
http://vehiclerigger.walen.se/

This'll automate everything that you need/want.

For most cases, yes. For tankthreads it utilizes the morphtrick, which only works with classic Motionblur. It's a neat trick for sure, and it looks good and all that, but you will not get true moving threads.

That said, VehicleRigger is a very good tool and if there are lots of vehicle stuff comming your way, it will save tons of time for sure!

:)

MAUROCOR
07-19-2010, 02:45 PM
Guys, there is no way to do that with no external plugins?

Cageman
07-19-2010, 02:48 PM
Guys, there is no way to do that with no external plugins?

Well, VehicleRigger uses the MorphTrick that Proton showed in a video. The difference is that VR automates alot of the setup, but it can be done without VR for sure.

EDIT: I believe Castius made a rig that uses ClothFX to simulate a thread and then metalinked the actual threads to the cloth object. This would also give you true threads moving around, but I guess the setup is related to alot of trial and error.

:)

MAUROCOR
07-19-2010, 02:51 PM
Well, VehicleRigger uses the MorphTrick that Proton showed in a video. The difference is that VR automates alot of the setup, but it can be done without VR for sure.


How? I am interested only in the thread part, the wheels are ok.

shrox
07-19-2010, 03:18 PM
http://www.newtek.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1844055

Threads galore...this should also be a sticky at this point.

WilliamVaughan
07-19-2010, 03:24 PM
Well, right now I am working in a Tank and the first step was to apply a Wheel Rotator expression to the wheel to make it rotate according to the motion of the tank. This part is done and it is ok.

And now I have to animate the thread, and right here is where my problem begin. I have whatched this amazing tutorial of Proton teaching how to create a morph to the thread and how to apply it in Layout. In this case he used a repeated post behaviour and this way he had a continuous behaviour of the morph and the ilusion the thread is rolliing perfectly.

That is great BUT what I need is to make this continuous morph to work according to the motion of the tank too.
I tryed a lot of thing and I didnīt get anything right.
Someone have a solution for that?
Thanks in advance!!!

You can use the morph setup and have it tied to the tank with expressions so that the treads will animated based on the movement of the tank...rotation as well.

Cageman
07-19-2010, 03:25 PM
How? I am interested only in the thread part, the wheels are ok.

By adjusting the morph-curve, you should be able to match it, if not exact, but very close, to the actual speed of the tank.

By creating a Master channel and use an expression, you can then control the amplitude of what the morph is doing; making it possible to make the morph go faster/slower/standstill. The masterchannel have to be animated by hand since there are no good ways to set this up with nodes; maybe an expression can be used to drive the masterchannel based on your tank animation, but I guess eyeballing it is much easier and straightforward to do.

This is very much from top of my head, so don't blame me if it doesn't work out. :)

I did a videotutorial about the use of Masterchannels...

LINK (ftp://LightWave:[email protected]:21/MasterChannels)

walfridson
07-19-2010, 04:02 PM
In the VR tank rig there isn't any magic really. The actual thread part is all lw. VR just helps rigging. Uses bones for deformation as well so alot of expressions to set up.

MAUROCOR
07-20-2010, 07:26 AM
Guys, thank you very much for you help.


_William- The problem is that I didnīt get to create an expression that worked well. Actually I am not so good with that.

_Cageman- Thanks for your time. I used your tip and it worked perfectly well. If I donīt get a way to make it work directly I will use that one.

_shrox- Wow, a lot of threads with the same subject, I should have done a research before to start that one.


I am posting a dummie here with the scene that I am working and what Iīve got til now. If you guys have some time to play with it I would appreciate.
Thanks!


http://www.maurocor.com/imagens/stuff/Tank.rar



.

MAUROCOR
07-20-2010, 11:18 AM
Anyone???

Cageman
07-20-2010, 03:24 PM
I'll take a look at it later. Kind of busy right now. :D

MAUROCOR
07-21-2010, 06:18 AM
I'll take a look at it later. Kind of busy right now. :D

Take your time, Cageman!:)

gordonrobb
07-21-2010, 06:44 AM
Maricor, thought I had replied to this earlier. I followed this tutorial http://www.premdesign.com/rel_tuts/tank_tutorial.htm and it worked a treat. The tread move as expected, and even go oposite directions when turning. Take a look.

MAUROCOR
07-21-2010, 07:17 AM
Maricor, thought I had replied to this earlier. I followed this tutorial http://www.premdesign.com/rel_tuts/tank_tutorial.htm and it worked a treat. The tread move as expected, and even go oposite directions when turning. Take a look.


Gordon, that is perfect! Thanks a lot!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Cageman
07-21-2010, 11:53 AM
Cool stuff, gordonrobb!

I was trying to work out an expression (thanks alot to Dodgy for helping me out on that one) that kind of works, but using DPKit MDD Pointer instead.

The idea I had was to convert a morph to an MDD, and in MDD Pointer set it to Repeat. Then use an envelope to drive the speed of the MDD based on the velocity of another object.

It kind of worked, but not as satisfactory as I had wanted. The morph (or rather.. MDD) started to go backwards when the tank slowed down. :D

Cageman
07-21-2010, 12:16 PM
Gordonrobb,

One thing that confuses me with that tutorial is the use of A and B inputfields. In LW9.6, it seems that Rel Morph Expression Module does not have those.

Cageman
07-21-2010, 12:23 PM
*doh*

Obviously, you just open up the Variables window.... :D

Dead in the head... that is a good description of me right now! :D

OlaHaldor
07-21-2010, 12:26 PM
I'd rather use the VehicleRigger any day than fiddling with all these expressions and stuff myself. :) It works like a charm, automates springs and just looks stunning when moving the tank over the coarse battlefield..

Cageman
07-21-2010, 12:29 PM
I'd rather use the VehicleRigger any day than fiddling with all these expressions and stuff myself. :) It works like a charm, automates springs and just looks stunning when moving the tank over the coarse battlefield..

Well, this certanly enhances some of what vehicle rigger does. This one actually works with PRMBlur, unlike the "usual" morphtrick that Vehicle Rigger utilizes.

:)

EDIT: VR is alot more than just threads though. :) I would vote the Relativity solution for threads and how they move the better solution since it does support PRMblur as far as I could tell. Even if you set things up with VR, you can still simply add this quite easily. There are tons of other things VR does that are far more timeconsuming to setup manually.

erikals
07-21-2010, 12:44 PM
no time on my hands atm, but interesting technique,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Joni3mn8M3s

Cageman
07-21-2010, 12:51 PM
no time on my hands atm, but interesting technique,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Joni3mn8M3s

Yes... I believe Castius had a sample content or tutorial on how to achive tankthreads with Cloth. I'm starting to think it might be time to actually do a real test with such a technique. I've also seen techniques demonstrating how to achive this with particles (which also generates true moving pieces). So far though, for the really demanding stuff, it seems that most people using LW are using the morphtrick. It is tried, tested and offers pretty good control.

:)

erikals
07-21-2010, 01:05 PM
pretty good, though i think the other trick would be better, as it would react to small rocks etc.

MAUROCOR
07-21-2010, 01:24 PM
So far though, for the really demanding stuff, it seems that most people using LW are using the morphtrick. It is tried, tested and offers pretty good control.

:)


Well, this Prem Subrahmanyam method worked perfectly well here.
So, thank you again for your support, guys!
:thumbsup:

Cageman
07-21-2010, 03:28 PM
pretty good, though i think the other trick would be better, as it would react to small rocks etc.

Well, doing it with Cloth is a huge gamble. I've been playing with it now for a couple of hours and its damn hard to make it work correctly with lots of collisions. It is quite easy to make it work with a tank that only moves forward or backward, it doesn't work well when you also add steering to the mix. That is where things really go out of wack because you have collisions forcing the thread down (wheels) and a ground that pushes the thread up. When you stear the tank, especially from a standstill, it just doesn't work when you add all these things that you really want out of a tankthread rig.

:)

erikals
07-21-2010, 03:48 PM
hmm, what about "we will either find a way or we will make one"?
that could work... yep,... it could :]

darn,...

daforum
07-22-2010, 05:21 AM
Maricor, thought I had replied to this earlier. I followed this tutorial http://www.premdesign.com/rel_tuts/tank_tutorial.htm and it worked a treat. The tread move as expected, and even go oposite directions when turning. Take a look.

Haven't seen this tutorial for a while and had forgotten it - thanks for the link :thumbsup: