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View Full Version : Finally making my mind up nvidia geforce gtx 480 against quadrofx 3800



prometheus
07-19-2010, 06:31 AM
Well...I do have an older quadro fx 1100 card at home, but I believe
the technology and specifications for the nvidia geforce gtx 480 is much better...so I donīt think Im doing any level down buy here.

I was looking at the quadro fx 3800 but everyone tells me not to buy it and after a long consideration I think Im finally gonna settle with the gtx 480 instead.

a zotac geforce gtx 480 can be bought in sweden for around 4695 SEK with taxes(swedish crowns) and thatīs around 643,77 USD

The HP quadro fx 3800 would be around 8196 SEK...and thats around 1123,82 USD.

questions confusing me, are wether the term certified driver for the quadro line only would pose any problem when using drivers for the geforce series.
And wich brand is reliable to buy, zotac,asus,msi,pny, or gigabyte?

yeah I heard that the 480 cards will be running hot, advice for a cooling system is appreciated.

Michael

Danner
07-19-2010, 06:44 AM
lightwave, unlike games, doesn't stress video cards enough to make them really hot

prometheus
07-19-2010, 07:03 AM
lightwave, unlike games, doesn't stress video cards enough to make them really hot

Under preassumtion that I will use lightwave only, question is if
other 3d apps or compositing programs will?

I hardly play any game at all thou.

Michael

Andrewstopheles
07-19-2010, 07:22 AM
Photoshop and After Effects and certain other software such as Softimage and 3D Studio Max will use the special features of a Quadro card. Lightwave does not.

biliousfrog
07-19-2010, 07:52 AM
quadro's are mostly a massive waste of money outside of CAD/Engineering apps...and the 480 requires a very beefy PSU and exceptional cooling for very little speed gain outside of certain games...get a 285, save some cash and get more performance than all but the very highest spec quadro's.

prometheus
07-19-2010, 08:40 AM
quadro's are mostly a massive waste of money outside of CAD/Engineering apps...and the 480 requires a very beefy PSU and exceptional cooling for very little speed gain outside of certain games...get a 285, save some cash and get more performance than all but the very highest spec quadro's.

since I was prepared to buy a 3800 I will most likely choose the gtx 480
over the 280 the memory size of 1.5 gig in the gtx 480 sounds better.
the 280 memory type is gddr 3, and the 480 is gddr5.

the opengl support is 2.1 for 280 and 4.0 for the 480.

Relative performance test of the gtx 480 Ive seen seem to show a significant performance boost against gtx 280.


Michael

prometheus
07-19-2010, 08:42 AM
Photoshop and After Effects and certain other software such as Softimage and 3D Studio Max will use the special features of a Quadro card. Lightwave does not.

Can you share a little more insight on those special features if you have the time?

Michael

cgisoul
07-19-2010, 09:24 AM
intereted thread. I was at one point to buy the 480, but i held back as some people was saying the same thing. 480 although a good card, the heat is bad unless you invest in a good cooling accessories. Better wait for the 2nd generation as 480 doesn't run 100% Fermi technology, will come fully in the 2nd generation of 480 card. Never the less, it's good to wait till November, 4 more months only.

biliousfrog
07-19-2010, 09:44 AM
since I was prepared to buy a 3800 I will most likely choose the gtx 480
over the 280 the memory size of 1.5 gig in the gtx 480 sounds better.
the 280 memory type is gddr 3, and the 480 is gddr5.

the opengl support is 2.1 for 280 and 4.0 for the 480.

Relative performance test of the gtx 480 Ive seen seem to show a significant performance boost against gtx 280.


Michael

Please read this: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=23&t=879411

What software do you have that supports OpenGL 4.0?

What software do you have that supports 3 way SLi?

Does your hardware support 3x PCI-e cards in 3 way SLi?

How powerful is your PSU?

Is GDDR5 RAM going to be any faster on your current system with the bandwidth restrictions of your current RAM, motherboard, CPU, HD's etc?

Is 1.5GB video RAM so impressive when you consider that you can only use one of the three cards in the 480 in 99% of applications (ie. you'll only have 512mb RAM in Lightwave).

prometheus
07-19-2010, 12:14 PM
Please read this: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=23&t=879411

What software do you have that supports OpenGL 4.0?

What software do you have that supports 3 way SLi?

Does your hardware support 3x PCI-e cards in 3 way SLi?

How powerful is your PSU?

Is GDDR5 RAM going to be any faster on your current system with the bandwidth restrictions of your current RAM, motherboard, CPU, HD's etc?

Is 1.5GB video RAM so impressive when you consider that you can only use one of the three cards in the 480 in 99% of applications (ie. you'll only have 512mb RAM in Lightwave).

You know it could be just a commercial scam with unnecessary extra amount of memory and open gl advancements that no software in the future would adapt to:)
and the amount of stream processors might be equally useless too perhaps? Im no specialist thou..just guessing.


Michael

biliousfrog
07-19-2010, 12:43 PM
Can you share a little more insight on those special features if you have the time?

Michael


You know it could be just a commercial scam with unnecessary extra amount of memory and open gl advancements that no software in the future would adapt to:)
and the amount of stream processors might be equally useless too perhaps? Im no specialist thou..just guessing.


Michael

It's not a scam...if you play a lot of games, have a very powerful system with the very latest components and must buy the fastest no matter how much it costs then the 480 is perfect. If you don't play games, don't have the very latest components and don't want to spend money on tech that will be outdated before you get any use out of it then perhaps you might want to look at something better suited.

What I'm trying to point out is that the card is designed for a purpose which will be of no, or very limited benefit, to you or barely any CG artists. It is not really a single graphics card, it is three cards joined together by SLi which isn't utilized by any major CG package and is unlikely to be any time soon. Many computer games can use SLi, therefore the card would be useful for hardcore gamers...isn't that easy to understand?

So...if we compare the 480 to the 285 in CG applications, you'll likely find that the 285 is as fast, probably faster, 99% of the time.

prometheus
07-19-2010, 02:21 PM
It's not a scam...if you play a lot of games, have a very powerful system with the very latest components and must buy the fastest no matter how much it costs then the 480 is perfect. If you don't play games, don't have the very latest components and don't want to spend money on tech that will be outdated before you get any use out of it then perhaps you might want to look at something better suited.

What I'm trying to point out is that the card is designed for a purpose which will be of no, or very limited benefit, to you or barely any CG artists. It is not really a single graphics card, it is three cards joined together by SLi which isn't utilized by any major CG package and is unlikely to be any time soon. Many computer games can use SLi, therefore the card would be useful for hardcore gamers...isn't that easy to understand?

So...if we compare the 480 to the 285 in CG applications, you'll likely find that the 285 is as fast, probably faster, 99% of the time.

Your not making life easier for me, do you? I thought I had my mind
set on this now:stumped:

Still..confusing that the video memory of 1.5 gb wouldnīt show gained
improvements to handling large amount of polys(in cg apps) are you
saying that most cg software wonīt be able to utilize that memory size
but gaming apps do?

And I guess the gtx 480:s gpu cores of 480 wont make any big difference
versus gtx 280:s 220 gpu cores?

Houdini supports cuda for simulations and 3d coat for faster voxels as
I understand it, lightwave not, but Im not after a card solely for lightwave.
after effects, fast volumetric rendering, and special fractal generators,that are working with high amount of particles are of interest.

The Aegia physx plugin for lightwave. seems to benifit from Cuda.
and with upcoming core,I believe bullet physics engine takes advantages of Cuda as well as the bullet physics in Houdini.

Maybe im mislead with this cuda stuff too?
Thanks anyway billiousfrog for your thoughts about this:thumbsup:

Michael

Cageman
07-19-2010, 02:45 PM
Still..confusing that the video memory of 1.5 gb wouldnīt show gained
improvements to handling large amount of polys(in cg apps) are you
saying that most cg software wonīt be able to utilize that memory size
but gaming apps do?

LightWave will certanly benefit from that, since the Buffered VBO setting copies the polygondata from memory to GFX-memory. That is why you can easily have 4 million polygons in Layout and not experience any slowdown when orbiting the objects in perspective/camera view or translating them (move, rotate and scale). I believe a similar optimization is done to Modeler. Once you start to deform vertices and such, you will notice a huge slowdown, since data have to be transfered to the GFX-card all the time instead of just once when not deforming.




And I guess the gtx 480:s gpu cores of 480 wont make any big difference
versus gtx 280:s 220 gpu cores?

Houdini supports cuda for simulations and 3d coat for faster voxels as
I understand it, lightwave not, but Im not after a card solely for lightwave.
after effects, fast volumetric rendering, and special fractal generators,that are working with high amount of particles are of interest.

The Aegia physx plugin for lightwave. seems to benifit from Cuda.
and with upcoming core,I believe bullet physics engine takes advantages of Cuda as well as the bullet physics in Houdini.

Maybe im mislead with this cuda stuff too?
Thanks anyway billiousfrog for your thoughts about this:thumbsup:

Michael

Anything that uses the GPU and the memory on the GFX-card will benefit from faster cards (Octane anyone?).

All this said and done, you have to think hard and long about what apps you will use with this card. Octane will, for sure, benefit from this quite much. I'm not sure about PhysX and how much faster that is in later GPUs from NVidia, but I have to assume that it is faster as well.

Strictly speaking about LightWave though, there aren't much that will make a huge difference. Obviously, more memory on the GFX-card will help out with larger polycounts and textures, but performance will probably be similar to a 250. If you are using LiquidPack with LW, maybe it will be faster with a 480? I really can't tell because I do not know how well it is supported.

prometheus
07-19-2010, 05:57 PM
LightWave will certanly benefit from that, since the Buffered VBO setting copies the polygondata from memory to GFX-memory. That is why you can easily have 4 million polygons in Layout and not experience any slowdown when orbiting the objects in perspective/camera view or translating them (move, rotate and scale). I believe a similar optimization is done to Modeler. Once you start to deform vertices and such, you will notice a huge slowdown, since data have to be transfered to the GFX-card all the time instead of just once when not deforming.



Anything that uses the GPU and the memory on the GFX-card will benefit from faster cards (Octane anyone?).

All this said and done, you have to think hard and long about what apps you will use with this card. Octane will, for sure, benefit from this quite much. I'm not sure about PhysX and how much faster that is in later GPUs from NVidia, but I have to assume that it is faster as well.

Strictly speaking about LightWave though, there aren't much that will make a huge difference. Obviously, more memory on the GFX-card will help out with larger polycounts and textures, but performance will probably be similar to a 250. If you are using LiquidPack with LW, maybe it will be faster with a 480? I really can't tell because I do not know how well it is supported.

Thanks cageman, Iīts good to hear as many opinions as possible I guess.
and I think Iīm quite aware of that the current Lw 9.6 wonīt show
any big differences between 280 and 480, I would like guard my self
for the future thou when thinking about more cuda cores in the 480 and open gl 4 and directx 11.

Maybe at that time when more apps are more suited for it and when lightwave core is finally there, maybe and probably at that point thereīs much much better card for it, but still..this is what feels right for the moment.

I Have at least narrowed it down from the 3800 series wich was my first
intent to buy.

Current card Im using know, is the quadro fx 1100, pretty nice old card
and it handles large animated displacements well, but misses newer technology such as cuda and shader models.


Michael

prometheus
07-19-2010, 06:19 PM
hereīs an interesting article concerning cuda and the adobe creative suite.

http://www.overclock.net/graphics-cards-general/389996-cuda-significantly-accelerates-photoshop-cs4-premiere.html

Michael

geo_n
07-19-2010, 09:31 PM
http://www.refractivesoftware.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4789&mode=view

prometheus
07-20-2010, 08:50 AM
http://www.refractivesoftware.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4789&mode=view

Interesting stuff...


I think Im gonna nail this gtx 480 sucker and place the order tonight or tomorrow, gonna browse through the net a little to see what they say.

Thereīs some worries over the temperature and noise thou..but some people donīt notice a difference from the 280.

heres a discussion thread about different brands...
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-151630.html

I think Ill go with zotacs gtx 480, the rest of the setup will probably be..

CPU: Intel Core i7 960 3.20GHz / 8MB / Socket 1366 (Boxed)

RAM: 6x2 ram preferably corsair.

MOTHERBOARD: ASUS P6T DEXLUXE V2

HD1: western digital velociraptor 300 GB/10000 RPM
HD2: ??7200 RPM

POWERSUPPLY: Recommended- ModXstream Pro 700 w( not sure about this one)

CHASSI: Not sure..probably some of the antec proline series.

DVD: ?Not decided.

Ohh..yeah my samsung syncmaster 2493hm is probably out of order
Ive been having problems with it to simply power up, sometimes it could
start up after thirty minutes or an hour, I tried to blow the whole thing clean with air compression but no good, it seems to be that the powersupply unit is simply giving up...to bad to throw it away thou, I think
itīs not more than 3.5 years old.

So no I need a new monitor aswell, samsung will be ruled out this time, since I had a 19 inch syncmaster crt monitor before wich after a few years started to flicker.

Michael

Matt
07-20-2010, 09:12 AM
Just a quick note on CPU cooling, I heartily recommend the Corsair H50 water cooler, dead easy to fit and works very well indeed.

prometheus
07-20-2010, 09:22 AM
Just a quick note on CPU cooling, I heartily recommend the Corsair H50 water cooler, dead easy to fit and works very well indeed.

Thanks Matt Iīll consider that.:thumbsup:

Michael

biliousfrog
07-20-2010, 10:21 AM
another vote for the H50

Get the best PSU you can afford, a PC power and cooling one has 7 year warranty and excellent reliability, failing that a seasonic or corsair (also seasonic)...a good PSU is one of the most important parts of a stable build especially with a monstor like the 480. Can't say I've ever heard of ModXtreme

geo_n
07-21-2010, 12:16 AM
Under preassumtion that I will use lightwave only, question is if
other 3d apps or compositing programs will?

I hardly play any game at all thou.

Michael

If you don't play games and not only lw, suggest a quadro.

http://shop.tsukumo.co.jp/goods/4537694084451/
Tested on 3dmax and its faster than same price gaming cards.

http://www.refractivesoftware.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2125&start=30


but I plan to get a 460 for octane.

prometheus
07-21-2010, 07:27 AM
If you don't play games and not only lw, suggest a quadro.

http://shop.tsukumo.co.jp/goods/4537694084451/
Tested on 3dmax and its faster than same price gaming cards.

http://www.refractivesoftware.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2125&start=30


but I plan to get a 460 for octane.

Well I donīt play any games, and yeah I was about to go for the quadro fx 3800 as I already do have the quadrofx 1100.

However ..so many people have commented on not going for the quadro fx3800 because of it being performance wise only slightly faster or even slower in some cases.

You might say that no one really knows for sure, it seems like it bounces
forth and back, so called pros working with 3d saying that they have these quadro fx cards at work but compared to their gtx cards, thereīs no big difference.

question might be how well the gtx 480 will perform against my old quadro fx 1100..I suspect it will be much faster for most of the cases and perhaps equal in others

There is a slight concern if it will handle animated displacement as good as the quadro fx 1100, like animated oceans with lots of subdivisions and procedural textures.

however most tech specīs in gtx 480 seems to be much more and with newer technology and itīs half the price of the 3800.

Gaming cards for 3d?
well I was looking a little to what kat kelly myers(djlithium) was saying about gtx 285 and the sparkle gtx 275.
That was discussed in another thread here on newtek,regarding quadro fx series and geforce series.
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107856

Edit..If I notice and discover that it canīt handle things as I wanted compared to the quadro fx 1100, then
Ill might check in to quadro fx line again in the future, and Ill get some more time to learn and investigate more about graphics cards, meanwhile Im saving some money on a not so bad card me thinks.
The gtx 480 will be aproximate 2000 SEK cheaper than when I bought the quadro fx 1100, and I was prepared to throw up
8400 Sek for the quadrofx 3800.

Michael

prometheus
07-21-2010, 09:29 AM
This doesn't really matter when all the cards are basically nVidia reference designs with a different logo on them. Some manufacturers do custom versions with different cooling features, factory overclocking etc. But generally all the cards, unless specified as having unique custom features, are exactly the same.

I've been using a Zotac GTX 285 for over a year now and it is every bit as reliable as any XFX, ASUS or eVGA card I've owned in recent years.

Yepp..from what Ive heard, people seem to be pleased with the zotac and
I could find a zotac gtx 480 for a decent prize too.

Michael

JCG
07-21-2010, 07:53 PM
If you're worried about the heat and noise, there are charts at Anandtech comparing the heat an noise levels of different modern cards at: http://www.anandtech.com/show/3809/nvidias-geforce-gtx-460-the-200-king/17


Can't say I've ever heard of ModXtremeIt's from OCZ, the owners of PC Power and Cooling.

[H] has a review. It's from 2 years ago, but I really like how they test power supplies. It's at: http://www.hardocp.com/article/2008/11/12/ocz_700w_modxstream_pro_power_supply/9

warmiak
07-22-2010, 06:54 PM
Yepp..from what Ive heard, people seem to be pleased with the zotac and
I could find a zotac gtx 480 for a decent prize too.

Michael

$650 ? Not exactly a decent prize imho.

You can get it for about $450 in the states.

http://www.pricewatch.com/search?q=zotac+gtx+480
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500156&cm_re=gtx_480-_-14-500-156-_-Product

-EsHrA-
07-23-2010, 04:08 AM
the new GTX 460 for about 200,-
much better received than GTX 480 (noisy, heat, etc)..

im getting one.


mlon

prometheus
07-23-2010, 12:04 PM
$650 ? Not exactly a decent prize imho.

You can get it for about $450 in the states.

http://www.pricewatch.com/search?q=zotac+gtx+480
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500156&cm_re=gtx_480-_-14-500-156-_-Product

Yeah thatīs quite a bit cheaper, I donīt now about shipping terms and purchasing guarantee for those shops and overseas terms.

buying things cheap in sweden isnīt easy,Taxes in sweden probably raises
the price tag.

Ill probably use a swedish netshop called www.komplett.se
it hasnīt the cheapest prices,a middle price tag perhaps, but it delivers fast and has good customer reviews for sales over the net, and a 3 year guarantee for all products.

Michael

prometheus
07-23-2010, 12:11 PM
the new GTX 460 for about 200,-
much better received than GTX 480 (noisy, heat, etc)..

im getting one.


mlon

Yeah..who really knows wich card is the better one?
for me I wanted the gtx 480 with 1.573 video memory size instead
of 768 for the 460 card.

a slight gpu core + of 20 for the 480 is also prefered, question
might be if the price tag of almost double the price is worth it.

Michael

JCG
07-25-2010, 04:56 PM
Yeah..who really knows wich card is the better one?
for me I wanted the gtx 480 with 1.573 video memory size instead
of 768 for the 460 card.

a slight gpu core + of 20 for the 480 is also prefered, question
might be if the price tag of almost double the price is worth it.

MichaelYou can get a 1GB 460 for $30 more. Sparkle has also announced a 2GB 460: http://www.tcmagazine.com/tcm/news/hardware/29190/sparkle-deliver-geforce-gtx-460-2gb-memory

The speed difference seems to range all the way from 17 to 45 percent, depending on the application, but the 460 is still using launch drivers.

prometheus
07-26-2010, 02:13 AM
according to refractivesoftware.com..
geforce 470 and 480 currently has the best performance to price ratio...for
Octane renderer.

read the faq over here
http://www.refractivesoftware.com/faq.html

octane renderer is for rendering completly gpu dependent, and two
480 gtx card can perform like this..

This video demonstrates Octane Render 1.0 Beta 2.2 with multi-GPU support rendering a 4 million triangle model using two GTX 480 video cards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqJyD7M_WQg

I wish the guy could pause and let it refine a little longer thou in this
demo instead of flying around so much.

Michael