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radams
07-16-2010, 08:32 AM
Hi All,

Now most of you by now know that Apple's new iPhone 4 has been found to have some issues with wireless phone reception due to some antena design problems (of which Apple denies).

But that isn't the whole story...
As much as I think Apple is an innovative, and creative company that has given us all some amazing hardware and software products....

Do you know why you don't hear much about issues with apple systems?

Because over the years Apple has had huge blinders on to its users/others and not accepted any responsibility when things go wrong. Apple also won't allow dissenting views or comments on their forums or boards... even when those could have helped them update or design better products.

Apple in itself is a monopoly...it's software, and appliances are limited to apple hardware, or OS. All the iPods, iTouch, etc.. for music are limited to using iTunes and QT. Now is this smart...yes and no. These technologies, software, and business model are innovative...but it is also limiting.

Why are there no memory card slots for iPods, iTouch, iPhone etc....
Because then if you need to add memory...you need to buy a new Apple product.

I still marvel at the spirit and innovative ideas that are Apple...but I hope in the future, they would be more honest and respectful to the users of their products.

Cheers,

Shnoze Shmon
07-16-2010, 09:41 AM
<---grabs popcorn, chair, 3D glasses

Sekhar
07-16-2010, 10:04 AM
<---grabs popcorn, chair, 3D glasses

Yeah, I so miss the McCain vs. Obama threads. :) The EVO vs. iPhone 4 thread didn't go anywhere, may be this one will.

Bill Carey
07-16-2010, 10:08 AM
Monopoly? With hundreds of other choices available for each product that they make? I don't see that at all.

What I see is a vertical business model that's different from most others. I see USERS that are willing look past the disadvantages to get the advantages of this business model and the products it produces. A whole different thing than a monopoly.

That said, I've chosen to look past the disadvantages to get the advantages on the portable electronics side, but not the PC side. (iphone, ipod check. imac, macbook pro, nope.)

When you buy an apple product you buy in to the business model. But, you don't have to drink the kool-aid. Way to many choices out there to even think about the monoply word.

-EsHrA-
07-16-2010, 10:17 AM
a business focused on limitation will in the long run never succeed and stay afloat.
(which is most of the market btw.) yai! ehm..

i am still amazed at the masses not rising up and slay them! :D

time for truly OPEN business and honest people!

which will never happen sadly atleast not in this eon.
people are selfish and easily duped.

:)


mlon

zarti
07-16-2010, 10:23 AM
...

Why are there no memory card slots for iPods, iTouch, iPhone etc....

...

how about " removable batteries " ??

... and do not worry about apple not listening its users on its own forum . there is worse ; they do not want to hear even something called " EU " ...

http://www.mobileburn.com/news.jsp?Id=5454








.cheers

radams
07-16-2010, 11:01 AM
how about " removable batteries " ??

Yeah, there's that issue too... ;)

Matt
07-16-2010, 11:16 AM
Apple also won't allow dissenting views or comments on their forums or boards... even when those could have helped them update or design better products.

This is very true, I posted an issue with the latest iPod software which basically trashed my iPod and my then attached Firewire harddrive.

Thread was pulled.

Apple is not the lovely friendly company it wants people to think they are. Very cut throat.

radams
07-16-2010, 11:36 AM
This is very true, I posted an issue with the latest iPod software which basically trashed my iPod and my then attached Firewire harddrive.

Thread was pulled.

Apple is not the lovely friendly company it wants people to think they are. Very cut throat.

Exactly...why should they be afraid of helping their users...or investigating issues when they come up.

Their image though can't allow that..."Apple is the company without issues or problems with their products"... "Apple is the artist friendly computer"... "Apple is the innovative leader for consumer personal tech appliances which are easy and powerful to use" ... "Apple will shape and change your life"

Their image can't afford being questioned or concepts challenged?

gerry_g
07-16-2010, 11:43 AM
Sod the 'death grip' band wagon issue, mine works just fine; just with they'd put a decent finder system in the OS, it's totally crap at the moment.

warmiak
07-16-2010, 12:53 PM
how about " removable batteries " ??

they do not want to hear even something called " EU " ...

http://www.mobileburn.com/news.jsp?Id=5454

.cheers

"The New Batteries Directive "

Heil EU !

warmiak
07-16-2010, 12:56 PM
a business focused on limitation will in the long run never succeed and stay afloat.
(which is most of the market btw.) yai! ehm..

i am still amazed at the masses not rising up and slay them! :D

time for truly OPEN business and honest people!

which will never happen sadly atleast not in this eon.
people are selfish and easily duped.

:)


mlon

I guess it is time for a new "EU Directive".

warmiak
07-16-2010, 01:05 PM
Hi All,

Now most of you by now know that Apple's new iPhone 4 has been found to have some issues with wireless phone reception due to some antena design problems (of which Apple denies).

But that isn't the whole story...
As much as I think Apple is an innovative, and creative company that has given us all some amazing hardware and software products....

Do you know why you don't hear much about issues with apple systems?

Because over the years Apple has had huge blinders on to its users/others and not accepted any responsibility when things go wrong. Apple also won't allow dissenting views or comments on their forums or boards... even when those could have helped them update or design better products.

Apple in itself is a monopoly...it's software, and appliances are limited to apple hardware, or OS. All the iPods, iTouch, etc.. for music are limited to using iTunes and QT. Now is this smart...yes and no. These technologies, software, and business model are innovative...but it is also limiting.

Why are there no memory card slots for iPods, iTouch, iPhone etc....
Because then if you need to add memory...you need to buy a new Apple product.

I still marvel at the spirit and innovative ideas that are Apple...but I hope in the future, they would be more honest and respectful to the users of their products.

Cheers,

I don't see where is the problem.

There are plenty of options and ultimately Apple will pay the price if they end up screwing their customers.

It never fails - people will always flock to better alternatives (as defined by their personal preferences) - the only time it can fail if they are left with no choice ( which more often than not is a result of someone meddling with the market - i.e regulations, tariffs, insane tax policies benefiting long standing big players etc)

Kuzey
07-16-2010, 01:11 PM
You know...

I would so love it...if all the 3d packages out there, had the same single file format. Create and surface your model in Maya and open it in LW and everything gets loaded...procedural surfaces...rigs and what not...and it looks and acts exacts the same. None of this exporting in other formats and converting crap :D

Sorry....I couldn't resist, it's Friday after all...hehe.

Kuzey

warmiak
07-16-2010, 01:21 PM
You know...

I would so love it...if all the 3d packages out there, had the same single file format. Create and surface your model in Maya and open it in LW and everything gets loaded...procedural surfaces...rigs and what not...and it looks and acts exacts the same. None of this exporting in other formats and converting crap :D

Sorry....I couldn't resist, it's Friday after all...hehe.

Kuzey

Yeah, but then there would be no need to have separate 3d packages to begin with .... that's the price you pay for each of these packages having different strengths and following different priorities which is often reflected in different types of information being serialized to external files.

shrox
07-16-2010, 01:26 PM
I have a TracFone. It does nothing but make phone calls. It works everywhere, because it uses any available carrier, so when others can't call, I can.

radams
07-16-2010, 01:32 PM
I love it...

Steve Jobs comes on stating that Apple has a solution to the antenna issue...it's a new covering...that they will give away for free to existing users..etc...

He actually apologized to the users for the issues while making note that few have the problem...and that the tech support lines didn't have many issues reported...and At&t stated that the iPhone 4 had equal or less issues compared to the iPhone 3..(said with destain sarcasim, which At&t of course researched and knows..cause their network is so great...and it has to be the phone's fault for dropping calls...and they keep such great records without the users calling and waiting on the line for 4 hours to report issues)...

I think you can tell I don't like AT&T.

The one thing that I found odd about Steve Job's comments...was not that he apologized to the users...which is very rare. But that he didn't apologize to the stock holders...in fact just the reverse. To bad so sad we had a $5 loss a share today...

Well, I hope that Apple will in the future do a little better job of designing for the real world applications...not just for design or gadget sake.

And I hope that Apple will GAD (Give A Dam) about us users more than our pocket books.

Cheers,

Kuzey
07-16-2010, 01:36 PM
Of course...but I was trying to be funny...that's all ;D

That would mean people could create stuff in Poser or wings 3d etc. and then brag to their clients that it was done in a high end package and charge extra, since it would be the same format etc.

It seemed funny to me...at the time :D

Kuzey

Kuzey
07-16-2010, 01:42 PM
I think you can tell I don't like AT&T.


I always wondered about AT&T. It seems the USA is the only place in the world, where you can't choose your carrier...that would suck big time.

Kuzey

CGI Addict
07-16-2010, 04:25 PM
A company lives or dies based on customer loyalty as well as the ability to bring in new customers. Last time I checked Apple beat out all other computer makers in these catagories. Apple continues to innovate (Steal) while others feel content to copy. Don't get me wrong, I get what you guys are saying and agree to an extent, however, to imply that this iPhone4 situation all of sudden shows Apple's true colors is an extreme exaggeration.

Slow down a bit and be real about it at least.

radams
07-16-2010, 04:46 PM
A company lives or dies based on customer loyalty as well as the ability to bring in new customers. Last time I checked Apple beat out all other computer makers in these catagories. Apple continues to innovate (Steal) while others feel content to copy. Don't get me wrong, I get what you guys are saying and agree to an extent, however, to imply that this iPhone4 situation all of sudden shows Apple's true colors is an extreme exaggeration.

Slow down a bit and be real about it at least.

Well the iPhone 4 is just the latest issues...there have been many others with both hardware and software over the years...but again Apple just had people buy a new box or software instead of dealing with the issues.

There were issues with a verions of the MacPro laptops failing due to heat and the motherboard cracking...you might be lucky to get a year out of it.
The next version Apple created a better case and ventilation to deal with it...but those who had that model ...it was just time before failure.

Did you hear about that? I have several friends in the UK who could enlighten you as to their issues (and wonderful apple support - NOT).

No I'm not getting down on Apple for just this iPhone 4....I'm concerned at how Apple treats its users...and even though they have some very innovative products of which I also own...I don't like the attitude and manipulation game that Apple plays while keeping their image of being the "nice people friendly" company.

All business need to make profit...but Apple tries to box in their users to only Apple...and to get any resolutions it also has to come from Apple...but if Apple doesn't want to see or hear it...neither will you.

Cheers,

CGI Addict
07-16-2010, 04:49 PM
Like I said, people vote with their dollars, and they are obviously voting very much in favor of Apple. The only thing I can tell you is that you could make the same points for bad products about every other company that sells something, but for some reason you like to bash Apple.

archijam
07-16-2010, 04:55 PM
CGI .. yre you bashing the Zune ?

Shame. ;)

CGI Addict
07-16-2010, 04:57 PM
Seems this whole thread is about bashing, just helping the cause with a little balance.

danielkaiser
07-16-2010, 04:58 PM
This is the first time I have ever watched Jobs give a talk and the thing that struck me the most was his use of cadence, body language and that he moves from one end of the stage to the other. these techniques are similar to those employed by self help guru’s and evangelical preachers and produces an hypnotic effect.

Back and forth, back and forth, your getting sleepy. Back and forth, back and forth, your getting sleeper. Back and forth, back and forth, your getting sleepy. Back and forth, back and forth, your getting sleeper. Back and forth, back and forth, your getting sleepy. Back and forth, back and forth, your getting sleeper. Now at the count of G4 go out and consume.

CGI Addict
07-16-2010, 05:00 PM
What was t..h......a..........t.... sorry, waking up now. That was funny good stuff.

Hopper
07-16-2010, 05:11 PM
a business focused on limitation will in the long run never succeed and stay afloat.
I've never been an Apple fan, but ...it's worked for them since 1978, so I'm pretty sure they would disagree.

A friend of mine swapped phones with me for a week. He had an EVO and I an iPhone. I gave his back today and admittedly it worked pretty well, but I still wanted mine back and he's now dumping his for an iPhone. It's all about preference. I could use either and be fine with it, but one thing stood out between the two...

I downloaded a particular app for the EVO and came to find out that the app was sending personal information back to the application vendor's server without my knowledge. That alone is more than enough reason for me not to own one. Having someone "approve" your app would be a pain in the a**, but it sure makes for a better (safer) platform in the end. And not to say that it can't happen with an iPhone... because it does for those that choose to jail-break their phone and download unapproved apps, but it's the user's choice at that point and they know what they're getting into.

The iPhone is a great phone - I would recommend it.
The EVO is a great phone - I would recommend it.

I think it's now becoming more about the company and not the phone. So's this thread...

radams
07-16-2010, 05:58 PM
Seems this whole thread is about bashing, just helping the cause with a little balance.

Hi, except my bashing of AT&T...I'm not bashing Apple...just concerned about how their image is paramount to the actual user experience...and at times the severe lack of support or addressing design or quality control issues.

Yes all companies go through this...but Apple's dogma has taken things to making lifestyles around them...Smart yes. But at the same time it takes away and limits the users...and when the users comment or have issues..they are pushed off forums, and not listened to.

Is Apple the only company that has these issues...no...but they are the main poster child of not being a company with these issues...which they do have.

For the record, I own Apple/Mac products, and have setup and developed on Apple products for business, professional and personal uses.

I looking forward to the next revision of the MacPro laptops...so that I can take and use Apple and PC applications infield.

Cheers,

MiniFireDragon
07-16-2010, 10:19 PM
Funny, Apple didn't create the IPod/IPhone, a small university did. They went to a private investor who said... "Sorry, we don't think this is going anywhere." And turned it away.... OOOPS!

warmiak
07-16-2010, 11:44 PM
Funny, Apple didn't create the IPod/IPhone, a small university did. They went to a private investor who said... "Sorry, we don't think this is going anywhere." And turned it away.... OOOPS!

According to Wikipedia it was in-house design .. at least in terms of hardware.

Red_Oddity
07-17-2010, 04:33 AM
I've never been an Apple fan, but ...it's worked for them since 1978, so I'm pretty sure they would disagree.

A friend of mine swapped phones with me for a week. He had an EVO and I an iPhone. I gave his back today and admittedly it worked pretty well, but I still wanted mine back and he's now dumping his for an iPhone. It's all about preference. I could use either and be fine with it, but one thing stood out between the two...

I downloaded a particular app for the EVO and came to find out that the app was sending personal information back to the application vendor's server without my knowledge. That alone is more than enough reason for me not to own one. Having someone "approve" your app would be a pain in the a**, but it sure makes for a better (safer) platform in the end. And not to say that it can't happen with an iPhone... because it does for those that choose to jail-break their phone and download unapproved apps, but it's the user's choice at that point and they know what they're getting into.

The iPhone is a great phone - I would recommend it.
The EVO is a great phone - I would recommend it.

I think it's now becoming more about the company and not the phone. So's this thread...

Did you get it from the marketplace, because for all the apps i downloaded from marketplace the installer tells me what it will do and what has access to. Off course, i have no idea how strict the checking of apps is on the marketplace.

warmiak
07-17-2010, 09:40 AM
I downloaded a particular app for the EVO and came to find out that the app was sending personal information back to the application vendor's server without my knowledge. That alone is more than enough reason for me not to own one. Having someone "approve" your app would be a pain in the a**, but it sure makes for a better (safer) platform in the end. And not to say that it can't happen with an iPhone... because it does for those that choose to jail-break their phone and download unapproved apps, but it's the user's choice at that point and they know what they're getting into.



The approval process can't really prevent that since Apple has no access to source code and all you need to do is to encode your stream and you are free to transmit anything you want.

This sort of thing is best prevented at the API level where any app which attempts to access a potentially "dangerous" API would trigger an automatic "confirmation dialog" etc ...

Hopper
07-17-2010, 10:30 AM
Of course, i have no idea how strict the checking of apps is on the marketplace.
Neither do I, but any app has potential to do damage just as anything you would download for your PC/Mac - so I guess the best practice is to be aware of it no matter which phone you choose to use.


This sort of thing is best prevented at the API level where any app which attempts to access a potentially "dangerous" API would trigger an automatic "confirmation dialog" etc ...
Absolutely. I've been dabbling in a little iPhone programming, but since I don't own a Mac or a Hackintosh, I haven't really gotten too far. Maybe by the end of this year I'll get around to loading Leopard and hacking out some code. It would be cool to have a little Lightwave object viewer - totally useless mind you, but cool anyway.

radams
07-17-2010, 10:59 AM
It would be cool to have a little Lightwave object viewer - totally useless mind you, but cool anyway.

Actually that sounds great for the iPad :)

Cheers,

Intuition
07-18-2010, 06:54 PM
For all the hubub about Microsoft being a monopoly in the day I find it extremely hilarious and contradicting the amount of far more monopolistic practices Apple gets away with regularly.

I mean, MS had IE included with Windows and they were sued for having a monopoly. Yet I can say that Apple includes Safari on their products and no one throws up a flag. You can only use AT&T unless you illegally hack the phone. You can't add memory or devices unless they are Apple products.

I mean, holy mah shizza twinkies. How much can Apple get away with?

Before fan peeps get all "But you can buy another phone, mp3 player, netbook, pad device..." remember that if Microsoft tried to sue Apple for not allowing IE be available on the iPad or, say osx, that every one would laugh, yet it was this same whiney pants argument that forced MS to be grilled.

I honestly don't really care one way or the other. I use what I need. That is Apple free at the moment save for my Wife's iPod which we bought when the price was like $150. I probably will buy an iPad if it comes down around $250 for a 3g version that has32gb ram, unless HP, MS, Dell, etc have a better one before that.

I really like Apple's innovations. I do. I just am surprised they haven't been sued for not allowing consumers to choose the carrier and are forced to use at&t. I mean, you provide the hardware/software and I'll choose the carrier thank you. Meanwhile if MSoft tried to release a phone forcing you to use t-mobile the lawyers would come out in droves. I mean hell, they sued sony for not allowing linux to be installed on the PS3.

Philbert
07-18-2010, 08:49 PM
According to Wikipedia it was in-house design .. at least in terms of hardware.

Actually this guy in the UK invented the iPod in 1979.
http://gizmodo.com/5046463/apple-admits-british-man-invented-ipod-in-1979-uses-him-to-win-patent-lawsuit



Absolutely. I've been dabbling in a little iPhone programming, but since I don't own a Mac or a Hackintosh, I haven't really gotten too far. Maybe by the end of this year I'll get around to loading Leopard and hacking out some code. It would be cool to have a little Lightwave object viewer - totally useless mind you, but cool anyway.

Have you seen the node based app creator for Android? I haven't looked too deeply into it but it seemed like it could be interesting.
http://appinventor.googlelabs.com/about/


You can only use AT&T unless you illegally hack the phone.

Unlocking the iPhone isn't illegal, it just voids your apple warranty and certainly your AT&T contract if you have one.

I have only owned the one apple product my 1st-gen iPhone, unless you count Quicktime Pro, and their products and service didn't exactly thrill me. My phone had constant hardware problems and I had to exchange it at the apple store (an hour away) twice. I would have done it a third time but my year of service ran out so I was stuck with the problem. I also hated that I was required to make an appointment online before going to the store and then when I got there on time I still had to wait 20 minutes and was tethered to the store with a beeper device so i couldn't even browse the rest of the mall while I waited.

Multiple times I posted problems on their forum, only to have the thread deleted. The only thread that wasn't deleted surprisingly was the one about my first gen iPhone being officially obsolete, seeing as they won't let me upgrade to iOS4 yet they will allow it on the 3G which runs the same hardware.

It's really sad to see where they've gone. Steve and Woz started the company selling computer kits to geeks who wanted to tinker with the parts and essentially put it together themselves. Very open and friendly. Now everything's so locked down I'm surprised you can open a mac case without alarms going off. Their whole smug attitude really drives me away too, even calling their employees "geniuses" and how at Friday's event Steve was asked serious questions and several times responded with sarcastic remarks.

OK I'll stop now I could go on for days. :p

ted
07-18-2010, 09:22 PM
I have the iPhone 3gs and wasn't in a rush to jump on the iPhone 4 anytime soon.
However.......this weekend my wife dunked her old cell phone in the lake while fishing.
Now she wants my current iPhone and darned it....I guess I gotta upgrade. :thumbsup:

aidenvfx
07-18-2010, 09:37 PM
Hi All,

Now most of you by now know that Apple's new iPhone 4 has been found to have some issues with wireless phone reception due to some antena design problems (of which Apple denies).

But that isn't the whole story...
As much as I think Apple is an innovative, and creative company that has given us all some amazing hardware and software products....

Do you know why you don't hear much about issues with apple systems?

Because over the years Apple has had huge blinders on to its users/others and not accepted any responsibility when things go wrong. Apple also won't allow dissenting views or comments on their forums or boards... even when those could have helped them update or design better products.

Apple in itself is a monopoly...it's software, and appliances are limited to apple hardware, or OS. All the iPods, iTouch, etc.. for music are limited to using iTunes and QT. Now is this smart...yes and no. These technologies, software, and business model are innovative...but it is also limiting.

Why are there no memory card slots for iPods, iTouch, iPhone etc....
Because then if you need to add memory...you need to buy a new Apple product.

I still marvel at the spirit and innovative ideas that are Apple...but I hope in the future, they would be more honest and respectful to the users of their products.

Cheers,

However it is because Apple is so closed that one can now get "Smoke" on a Mac and "Resolve" on a Mac for 1K.

I am not saying everything Apple does is perfect. However having a closed system with set guidelines often leads to a better customer experience over all.

With the explosion of the Web 2.0, Facebook, Twitter, there are more and more people using PC's that have no clue what they are doing. A ipod touch or ipad makes computers simple.

Does this mean Apple is the best company...No but for the most part they put out a product that works and lets one get things done. I don't program, I don't hack, I have zero interest in jail breaking. FOr myself I just want fast, and simple and that is what Apple does really well.

Philbert
07-18-2010, 10:06 PM
A ipod touch or ipad makes computers simple.

It's a pretty far stretch to call these things computers. Yes it may technically fit the definition but it's FAR from what most people think of when they hear the word "computer". It's simple because it's a fun toy, a gadget. If it could do the things a normal computer does it would not be simple.

Hopper
07-18-2010, 10:25 PM
I just am surprised they haven't been sued for not allowing consumers to choose the carrier and are forced to use at&t
Class action suit is already pending for this. Apple was supposed to unlock phones after your initial 2 year contract was over.

Class action monopoly lawsuit against Apple and AT&T gets okay from federal judge (http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/07/12/class-action-monopoly-lawsuit-against-apple-and-att-gets-okay-from-federal-judge/)

There are a few more articles on monopoly suits against Apple / AT&T for the same thing. Some are a pretty interesting read.

This one made me laugh... what a bunch of F-heads...

AT&T offers unlock codes to settle class action suit, excludes Apple iPhones (http://www.mobileburn.com/news.jsp?Id=9533)

Intuition
07-19-2010, 10:19 AM
Class action suit is already pending for this. Apple was supposed to unlock phones after your initial 2 year contract was over.

...

There are a few more articles on monopoly suits against Apple / AT&T for the same thing. Some are a pretty interesting read.

This one made me laugh... what a bunch of F-heads...

...


Geez, ok, I guess Apple is feeling the same legal sting. ;D

Call me surprised. Like I said above, I don't really hate on Apple in general, I appreciate their innovation but, I guess I just think that they had gone way beyond MSoft as far as practices. I see that its starting to show up in legalese for them.

danielkaiser
07-19-2010, 11:05 AM
This about sums it up for me…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn-YesqzvNk&feature=player_embedded

And it's 3D related.

Hopper
07-19-2010, 11:11 AM
This about sums it up for me…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn-YesqzvNk&feature=player_embedded

And it's 3D related.
Holy crap that was funny ... no translation required.

coremi
07-19-2010, 12:20 PM
Apple has little market share so that's why it is not considered as a monopoly. If Nokia would have their way of bussiness with more than 50% market share, everybody will sue Nokia, same with microsoft. Apple is just some marketing company with an IT profile, with best knowledge of how to speculate people. Ex: the magic device called iPad wich will be the new internet era device doesn't have a basic webcam, Why ? because it will be in the iPad ver. 2 ? and ver. 3 will have the most innovative feature called iUSB wich will let you connect your camera to the iPad, wow, so cooooool.....

D-OS
07-22-2010, 12:23 PM
Does the iPhone use LightWave :P

Philbert
07-22-2010, 12:31 PM
Does the iPhone use LightWave :P

Nope, but the Asus EEEPad does.

warmiak
07-22-2010, 02:27 PM
Does the iPhone use LightWave :P

Yeah ... in a way ... I use Lightwave as a primary tool when exporting models/animations to my iPhone based 3d engine.

csandy
07-23-2010, 10:54 AM
For all the hubub about Microsoft being a monopoly in the day I find it extremely hilarious and contradicting the amount of far more monopolistic practices Apple gets away with regularly.

I mean, MS had IE included with Windows and they were sued for having a monopoly.

My friend, that's because monopolies are not against the law.

I believe you are making a passing reference at the Sherman Anti-trust Act and similar EU legislation. The Sherman Act was enacted to curtail various anti-competitive practices.

In a nutshell - Microsoft got burned becuase it had market power, something Apple has only fairly recently enjoyed, and in a niche market. Forcing users to upgrade when a battery runs out and not having a memory card slot wouldn't be anti-competitive. In fact, it's the opposite.

If those were such reprehensible tactics, the market would dictate that you go elsewhere because there are many mp3 products out there (literally thousands) and there are many other computer manufacturers out there (again, thousands).

Having a vertically intergrated product, in and of itself, is not an anti-competitive tactic.

For exmaple, NewTek integrates an editor, switcher, 3D design, TV paint, web streamer, recorder, CG all into it's VT[5] product. Is it anti-competitive to do so? Hardly. Are there things about the suite I don't like? Definitely. Do I have choices? Certainly. NewTek does not have the market share to influence much of anything to get them into hot water - even in the Lightwave space. Also, their business practices are far from anti-competitive - so you'd be hard pressed to find widescale harm to the consumer.

Furthermore, to violate the law, you can't merely be a monopoly. Many of you in this forums are monoplies in your marticular market because you have a unique set of skills. It must be something more.

A Sherman Act Section 2 violation has 2 elements:

(1) the possession of monopoly power in the relevant market and
(2) the willful acquisition or maintenance of that power as distinguished from growth or development as a consequence of a superior product, business acumen, or historic accident.

Where Apple is concerned, you would have a tough time proving (1), and even more difficult time showing that Apple's growth is not due to their products being "superior" or through brilliant marketing (business acumen).

Intuition
07-23-2010, 06:01 PM
My friend, that's because monopolies are not against the law.

I believe you are making a passing reference at the Sherman Anti-trust Act and similar EU legislation. The Sherman Act was enacted to curtail various anti-competitive practices.

In a nutshell - Microsoft got burned becuase it had market power, something Apple has only fairly recently enjoyed, and in a niche market. Forcing users to upgrade when a battery runs out and not having a memory card slot wouldn't be anti-competitive. In fact, it's the opposite.

If those were such reprehensible tactics, the market would dictate that you go elsewhere because there are many mp3 products out there (literally thousands) and there are many other computer manufacturers out there (again, thousands).

Having a vertically intergrated product, in and of itself, is not an anti-competitive tactic.

For exmaple, NewTek integrates an editor, switcher, 3D design, TV paint, web streamer, recorder, CG all into it's VT[5] product. Is it anti-competitive to do so? Hardly. Are there things about the suite I don't like? Definitely. Do I have choices? Certainly. NewTek does not have the market share to influence much of anything to get them into hot water - even in the Lightwave space. Also, their business practices are far from anti-competitive - so you'd be hard pressed to find widescale harm to the consumer.

Furthermore, to violate the law, you can't merely be a monopoly. Many of you in this forums are monoplies in your marticular market because you have a unique set of skills. It must be something more.

A Sherman Act Section 2 violation has 2 elements:

(1) the possession of monopoly power in the relevant market and
(2) the willful acquisition or maintenance of that power as distinguished from growth or development as a consequence of a superior product, business acumen, or historic accident.

Where Apple is concerned, you would have a tough time proving (1), and even more difficult time showing that Apple's growth is not due to their products being "superior" or through brilliant marketing (business acumen).

Since the above statements, though fully true and factual, do not help feed into my need to hate and disparage against Apple, I can not endorse them.

This message paid for by the Casey Benn AKA Intuition council.

Hopper
07-23-2010, 07:52 PM
Since the above statements, though fully true and factual, do not help feed into my need to hate and disparage against Apple, I can not endorse them.
WooHoo! Let your troll flag fly Intuition! :rock:

csandy
07-23-2010, 09:28 PM
Since the above statements, though fully true and factual, do not help feed into my need to hate and disparage against Apple, I can not endorse them.

This message paid for by the Casey Benn AKA Intuition council.


:ohmy: