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h2oStudios
07-06-2010, 11:50 PM
So I was bored and bouncing around the web when I stumbled upon this...

http://www.vimeo.com/13146267

insignet
07-07-2010, 12:16 AM
I agree... looks like a solution for my rigging needs. Nice find.

UnCommonGrafx
07-07-2010, 07:42 AM
hmmm... 9 hrs ago...


interesting...

OFF
07-07-2010, 07:57 AM
very close to Messiah armatures
i like it )

digitaldoc
07-07-2010, 08:02 AM
no other info available.....

DBMiller
07-07-2010, 09:01 AM
Could be this site from Flay.com. It's in Japanese, and I can't find the muscle script, but the demos on the site look a lot like what this vid is showing.

http://flay.com/getdetail.cfm?ID=2584

edit: click on the link to "automation tools" in the upper right. It has a walk cycle demo.
edit edit: I don't know what is written there but some of the tools look great.

OFF
07-07-2010, 09:06 AM
i guess it Rebelhill:
http://www.rebelhill.net/

dballesg
07-07-2010, 09:35 AM
Well it has RH on many of the names of the controls.

Looks like Craig has develop a Rig with joints and nulls that can be re-scaled and applied to multiple characters! :)

And he is using 9.6! :)

Come one Craig we know is you! :) Spill the beans! :)

David

Netvudu
07-07-2010, 10:09 AM
ooooh...kewl rig

WilliamVaughan
07-07-2010, 10:11 AM
Shows promise.

I'd love to see a version of this on a stripped down rig as well.

geothefaust
07-07-2010, 10:27 AM
very close to Messiah armatures
i like it )

It's doesn't look anything like Messiah armatures, actually.

jrandom
07-07-2010, 11:03 AM
Is the Rebel Hill tutorial recommended? I'm going to need to learn rigging soon.

GraphXs
07-07-2010, 11:30 AM
Looks great! How can we get a hold of this?

VonBon
07-07-2010, 11:34 AM
Is the Rebel Hill tutorial recommended? I'm going to need to learn rigging soon.

i recommend it.

geothefaust
07-07-2010, 11:47 AM
Is the Rebel Hill tutorial recommended? I'm going to need to learn rigging soon.

Absolutely recommend it. If you plan on rigging in LW, you wont find better training material in this department anywhere else. Top shelf. :thumbsup:

Dexter2999
07-07-2010, 01:10 PM
Yeah, I don't know if that is RebelHill's video. But I'm pretty sure who ever is doing it is using his set up.

jasonwestmas
07-07-2010, 05:56 PM
Rebel Hill RHocks!

Those new rigging tools look pretty cool too, whoever made them.

RebelHill
07-07-2010, 07:11 PM
I confess... it is I.

For those who thought they couldn't rig in LW... you can now!

Well, not NOW,strictly. But in a few weeks once I get this thing all polished off. So almost now.

Soon... soon is the word.

digitaldoc
07-07-2010, 07:49 PM
Aha!:)

jrandom
07-07-2010, 08:41 PM
I confess... it is I.

For those who thought they couldn't rig in LW... you can now!

Well, not NOW,strictly. But in a few weeks once I get this thing all polished off. So almost now.

Soon... soon is the word.

So... does this mean I should wait a bit before buying your rigging tutorial thingy stuff?

h2oStudios
07-07-2010, 09:04 PM
So... does this mean I should wait a bit before buying your rigging tutorial thingy stuff?

LMAO... sorry that was funny

I would say it all depends. Those rigging tutorials really teach you rigging. And not to sound like I'm just agreeing with previous statements, but that series is probably the best LW rigging resource out there...

This thing looks like an auto-rigger.

So, the question really is "what do you need to do what you want"?

Just my nickel & 3 pennies.

PeteS
07-07-2010, 09:46 PM
I highly recommend Craig's rigs. They may seem a bit daunting at first, but then you realize those "extras" save you quite a bit of time once you get comfortable with them, and you will quite quickly. I can speak from experience.

As far as he DVD's, they are not for the weak of heart, they are pretty advanced. However they are extremely thorough. Once you master them, if you chose/commit to learning how to create a complex rig, you not only will be able to rig as you need, from very simple to highly complex (it's your choice) but you will also have the understanding to rig outside of the box and have the knowledge to create other things besides a biped. Otherwise there are plenty of simpler rig tutorials out there if you just want to "get your feet wet".

Nice job Craig.

jrandom
07-07-2010, 10:01 PM
This thing looks like an auto-rigger.

So, the question really is "what do you need to do what you want"

Ah-hah! Got it. What do I want? To be able to rig characters from scratch. I'm off to purchase the RebelHill tuts...

Edit: Payment has been made and I am eagerly awaiting the download link! I so love being able to afford things...

wesleycorgi
07-07-2010, 10:25 PM
I recently purchased the Rebel Hill vids for my first earnest plunge into CA rigging. I've only made it through the first few videos, but good stuff so far with just learning (and relearning) the fundamentals.

JBT27
07-08-2010, 03:41 AM
They are advanced overall and intensive, but I reckon they are required watching/listening - had mine for ages now, and still watching them over and over, and practising.

I hope this new thing is not too many weeks away :)

Julian.

jasonwestmas
07-08-2010, 08:38 AM
Auto riggers are very welcome in my world. Sometimes all I want to do is create without having to think too much about how to teach the computer to facilitate the creativity.

h2oStudios
07-08-2010, 10:41 AM
Auto riggers are very welcome in my world. Sometimes all I want to do is create without having to think too much about how to teach the computer to facilitate the creativity.

:agree:

I'm proficient enough in terms of rigging to pretty much get what I need out of it... But, there are situations (being under the gun to get a character out very quickly) where I need a rig done quickly.

Imagine having a character go from no rig to rigged in say... less than 15 mins. :hey:

Now that would definetly be something to have in a Character Arsenal.

silviotoledo
07-08-2010, 01:57 PM
Sounds amazingggggggggggggg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GraphXs
07-08-2010, 09:07 PM
Yes, I love auto riggers. I prefer getting into animation than rigging. I can rig basic stuff, but love the advanced rigging solutions of auto riggers. I'm also spoiled with Biped and CAT in Max.

So Rebelhill....Can this rigging system also changes to how many "spine" bones, fingers, additional bones like tails, face stuff, etc,etc as well? OIr is it locked down to what the Rig has? Does it support set-up for various character types. Quadrupeds, etc,etc?

Looks Amazing!

RebelHill
07-09-2010, 08:19 AM
Can this rigging system also changes to how many "spine" bones, fingers, additional bones like tails, face stuff, etc,etc as well? OIr is it locked down to what the Rig has? Does it support set-up for various character types. Quadrupeds, etc,etc?

Well, its interesting that u mention biped and CAT. Biped, Ive thought, has certain weaknesses, but was a good quick fire solution to do what it did. CAT I always thought was superb, but mainly due to the variety of preset rigs, and their handy lil control systems.

Each has been successful, Ive thought, because in truth, neither is an autorigger... each just uses preset rigs, with a setup mode for resizing them/binding them to different characters.

And this for me has always called into quetion exactly what an "auto"rigger really is, cos most autoriggers, rally are just that... a tool, or set of, for reposing a premade rig into an new set of proportions.

There are ones of course that are much more auto... in that they contain within their scripts/programs different descriptions of different rigs... what nulls and bones, and names and appropriate expressions, etc, are associated with a 3 bone spine, a 5 bone, etc... and so load these and interconnect them based on selectable preferences.

Thats much more "autorigger"... and much less "rig applyer" to me.

So in truth mine is much more the former kind, preset rigs, with a refit mode.

First, my rigs, like many in LW, rely on different controllers and modifiers be setup. Stuff like follower, expressions applied to channels of point/orient constraint motion modifiers, etc, etc. Can these things even be accessed by plugins?? I dont think they can, though I wouldnt actually know, I sure as hell cant find any way of doing these things with LS, which doesnt surprise me. But you can have these things pre applied in various ways in the scene itself...

So mine uses preset rigs, you load the type of rigged character you're after in layout, replace the default mesh with your own, switch to edit mode, which repoints a whole ton of stuff at a whole ton of other stuff, switches all the motion control settings to basically take the rig apart... moves the bits around to the indicated points you specify with nulls... switch to rig, and everything is repointed and put back together, with new percentile offsets keyed in, poles aligned and matched in, and so on and so forth.

So the idea is really to give a versatile selection of intuitive, solid rigs, and make the refitting procedure a lot easier for folks, to give something that can fit people who want high end rigs for production work, or who want a quick way to slap a stable, easy to pose rig onto a character for insertion in some architectural viz thing.

As for different fittings... the rig itself can be smooshed into a quadruped as it happens... it should work for just about any 4 limb/1 head thing... within reason. Though I think it'd work a lil better with properly preset, and slightly altered rigs, so I'll probs do an actual preset quad rig with setup too, though likely not in the first release.

I also already showed in one of the update vids for RHR (also about refitting rigs between characters), how to take rigged "parts" and snap them between characters... so tails, wings, etc. So I may later on look at adding a kit of parts, and show how to add them into the rigs, that could work.

The other thing of course by doing it all this way in LW, is that the rig is entirely native, and so you can rig for other users, on any platform, there no plugins, or exrta interface needed, its just a plain LW viewport rig.

Ill put up some more info about what Im intending for inclusion with this thing as I get a lil further in, but in the meantime, any of those who've been testing it are free to share their thoughts on ease of use, usefullness, etc. Right, crumpet time for me.

VonBon
07-09-2010, 09:23 AM
So they will be downloadable scene files?
you may aswell do a variety of creatures.

h2oStudios
07-09-2010, 09:38 AM
oooh, nice. enjoy crumpet :D.

Well, first off, I have to say that as an artist I'm impressed.

Rigging is not a foreign thing to me, but I've found it to be one of those things that can become a technical marathon (and somewhat tedious, if you're not in the mood). I'm sure many will agree that rigging a character from scratch, and resulting a decent rig can take a few hours at minimum.

So, the first thing about this was the speed at which I was able to get a character rigged. Add a few very simple weights, make sure the character is in it's prep-pose (as you would with any), send it off, and "RHiggit".

That video in the first post is actually a recording of one of my test sessions. The actual rigging portion of the first character in real-time is approx. 10mins, and maybe 5min prep work (weights & pose). That's pretty damn fast. Of course taking one's time is best, but I don't see this process taking (at my most sluggish) more than half an hour.

The rig itself is, as one would imagine, very functional. All the IK/FK blending, built in stretchy, consolidated foot controls, offsets, and twist modes are there so far.

The Deformation is another thing that impressed me. Granted my "KidHarlem" model is not a finished one and imo kinda messy, but I got some decent deforms in areas where I was expecting significant defiance.

Edit-ability. You can go back and forth between edit-mode and rig-mode very quickly for tweaking the rig. If ya don't like the position of something, just go back to edit-mode, make your adjustments, key all items, rest all bones, hit rig, and boom, you're back to your rig.

Overall, so far, this is a really fun-ctional tool. Mad props, RH.

CHEERS

RebelHill
07-09-2010, 09:48 AM
Im glad you like the deforms. Thats been one of the big must haves from the start with this... a built in deformer set thats easy to setup, and provides clean deforms in all the right areas, so people dont have to keep banging their heads trying to get their characters to deform nicely, and reliably.

Infinite
07-09-2010, 09:58 AM
It would be really cool to see this tested on fairly realistic type human models. Say like Jamie Busby's male character, or something like that.

jasonwestmas
07-09-2010, 12:05 PM
It would be really cool to see this tested on fairly realistic type human models. Say like Jamie Busby's male character, or something like that.

It's only a matter of polygon counts.

h2oStudios
07-09-2010, 12:22 PM
It would be really cool to see this tested on fairly realistic type human models. Say like Jamie Busby's male character, or something like that.

How about a MakeHuman Mesh :hey: ;)...

RebelHill
07-09-2010, 01:04 PM
Well... i dont wanna get too drawn in on what is or isnt going to be included as part of this toolset till Im further in with building and then testing things to make sure it all works well. Though i will say this...

One of the aims for this is to give people options in their rigging, as to what kind of characters they're trying to rig. This rig seen so far is good for a wide range of standard biped characters... its good for cartoony ones, and it delivers clean, decent deforms on more realistic characters. What it lacks is the more precise deform control to give realistic characters that extra pop... so one of the intended inclusions is for an advanaced biped, which will be designed for rigging more realistic and detailed creatures and characters.

Infinite
07-09-2010, 01:33 PM
Well... i dont wanna get too drawn in on what is or isnt going to be included as part of this toolset till Im further in with building and then testing things to make sure it all works well. Though i will say this...

One of the aims for this is to give people options in their rigging, as to what kind of characters they're trying to rig. This rig seen so far is good for a wide range of standard biped characters... its good for cartoony ones, and it delivers clean, decent deforms on more realistic characters. What it lacks is the more precise deform control to give realistic characters that extra pop... so one of the intended inclusions is for an advanaced biped, which will be designed for rigging more realistic and detailed creatures and characters.

That sounds interesting and what you have already looks really cool. I hope Newtek stand up and take notice :hey:

GraphXs
07-09-2010, 02:43 PM
Thanks for the detailed reply! I really love the fact that your rig will seem to keep the key frame information when moved into another character. I do have another Q: will you then contain multiple types of rigs then: 3 fingers, 5 fingers, etc,etc? And if that is the case is it still possible to somehow copy/paste animations between them? Or will a better approach is to always use the 5 finger version and just not weight 1 or two of the fingers to fit the 3 finger mesh and hide them?

RebelHill
07-09-2010, 03:07 PM
Thanks for the detailed reply! I really love the fact that your rig will seem to keep the key frame information when moved into another character. I do have another And if that is the case is it still possible to somehow copy/paste animations between them?

Well... if you rig something... go ahead in time, pose it, animate it... then the controllers are getting keyed at certain places, and rotations. If u then go back to base pose, refit the rig to a new char, and move go back to the poses, they'll still be there, exactly the same... but thats the thing... EXACTLY the same. Animation isnt retargeted, the rig itself is full time, always on, sqash n stretch... so if u rig n pose a 6ft character, then rerig into a 2 ft one... when u go back to the poses the 2ft guy will now be stretched out to the proportions of the 6ft one.

Its an amusing side effect of the way the rig works, but not really good for much I dont think.


will you then contain multiple types of rigs then: 3 fingers, 5 fingers, etc,etc? Or will a better approach is to always use the 5 finger version and just not weight 1 or two of the fingers to fit the 3 finger mesh and hide them?

Not really, the rigs will be for stripping back/simple modification, rather than a thousand different flavours.

Ideally you at some point finalise a rig, and remove all of the stuff used for the editing, so you cant go back and edit anymore. At this point you're free to customise things some, without the risk of breaking stuff (too much, lol)... so for instance with a 3 fingered character, you'd delete one fingers bones and control nulls, and thatd be it. But you can also add too. The basic skeleton only has one toe joint, so you could add as many lil single toe bones as you needed as children of this joint, to make a toed character. And so on.

OFF
07-14-2010, 12:46 AM
so, there are news?

drako
07-14-2010, 03:51 AM
rebelhill please finish it ........ i want these cs tools....
excellent news for lightwave....

Netvudu
07-14-2010, 04:13 AM
Im certainly going to purchase this thing

RebelHill
07-15-2010, 08:39 AM
Ok... so Im looking at soon being done with this phase, which is nice... so I shall be announcing some details about this thing in the next week or so.

In the meantime, here's a lil taster for you all to play with, and see what you think. I took the Scientist's Adam mesh...

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108780

and refitted it using my rigger, so you can all have a go with the kind of rig my rigger turns out.

www.rebelhill.net/RH_Adam.zip

video guide included.

GraphXs
07-15-2010, 05:00 PM
Ooohh.Nice Thanks!

daforum
07-16-2010, 02:14 AM
Very cool! Thanks for sharing :)

JBT27
07-29-2010, 02:20 AM
I was wondering if there is any news on announcements for RH's new project. I will be honest and say that there are a couple of things coming up which I suspect it will help us with enormously. Much as I'm watching and re-watching RH's great tutorials, practising and so on, the notion of this system is very intriguing and very exciting.

Not hassling, not at all :)

Just asking!

Julian.

silviotoledo
07-29-2010, 05:31 AM
I really would like to see this tool on LW 10.1

h2oStudios
07-30-2010, 03:43 PM
Not sure, but I think RH may still be in the kitchen with this...

erikals
07-31-2010, 12:09 AM
:]

http://www.draftdaysuit.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/muppet-chef.jpg

RebelHill
08-02-2010, 02:13 AM
Im saying nothing...

just yet!