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View Full Version : How do you get ultra fine rotation in Modeler?



DanD
06-29-2010, 11:40 AM
This has always bugged me about modeling in LW, when you rotate something, it's on whole number degrees. I know if you hold down the ctrl key it snaps to every 15 degrees...which is nice. But, how does one rotate down to tenths of a degree? Is there a plugin? I did a quick search on flay but nothing useful showed up. I usually rotate near to where I want to go then use the numeric panel and type in .1 or .05 and just keep hitting the apply button. This gets freakin tedious after a while. Also, I tried a bunch of key combinations and nothing appeared to work. 8)

Dan

Nicolas Jordan
06-29-2010, 11:45 AM
Sounds like you do the same thing as me when fine rotation is needed by typing in the amount and guessing a bit in the numeric panel. I don't think there is a better or easier way.

4dartist
06-29-2010, 11:47 AM
DanD - you are doing it the only way I know how too. I've seen a couple of these threads go by in the days, and I don't remember anyone having a better solution. The same theory applies for scaling objects, sometimes you need to scale 99.9% instead of the default 99%.

Matt
06-29-2010, 11:47 AM
Yep, you have to type it in, zooming does not make it finer, it's a long standing annoyance in LightWave, one I'd love to see the back of.

geothefaust
06-29-2010, 11:49 AM
As far as I know, and as you said, that is the only way to get small increments (that is, keying in a value and hitting apply many times).

DanD
06-29-2010, 11:52 AM
Wow guys, thanks for the quick replies! Thanks! Well, I was hoping by now someone would have wrote a plugin to fix this at least. Oh well. I'll keep poking around in the mean time. Thanks again.

Dan

Dreamcube017
06-29-2010, 12:36 PM
Don't mean to hijack the thread, but since we're on rotating things, rotating the camera in modeler is ANNOYING.

I wish it worked like it did in Layout. I don't like how when I rotate the camera, sometimes it'll tilt, or get off center from the object... or sometimes it'll just go completly upside down and flipped backwards. is there a way to turn the tumbling off? It'd be much better if it just rotated around the object and DID NOT tilt at all.

Any ideas?

shrox
06-29-2010, 12:42 PM
Don't mean to hijack the thread, but since we're on rotating things, rotating the camera in modeler is ANNOYING.

I wish it worked like it did in Layout. I don't like how when I rotate the camera, sometimes it'll tilt, or get off center from the object... or sometimes it'll just go completly upside down and flipped backwards. is there a way to turn the tumbling off? It'd be much better if it just rotated around the object and DID NOT tilt at all.

Any ideas?

The tumbling you describe is called gimbal lock, its when two of the rotation axises (axes, I know) align and rotate in the same manner. Bad enough in 3D software, even worse in a spacecraft...

4dartist
06-29-2010, 12:59 PM
I don't think he is talking about gimbal lock. I think he means rotating in the perspective viewport.

Dreamcube, yes.. some programs limit your rotation so your viewport camera never banks. The 3d space will always remain oriented with the same up direction in respect to the camera. However as you noticed, LW is not like this. It allows you to bank and look at your model from virtually any angle. Modo is VERY similar to lightwave right now, in it's modeling section. You can also get flipped around in modo, however modo is missing one thing that lightwave has. If you alt-click on the outer edge of the viewport, you get a pure bank rotation where it locks the other axis.

This free rotation used to drive me nuts after coming from maya back in the day, maya rotated like you are wanting (not sure if it still does), then to suddenly get all flipped around... When Solidworks people try to interface with lightwave they get all confused and twisted around too, and can't actually control it, because of the free rotation. :)

Honestly though, I have really gotten used to it and it doesn't even register as weird, it's second nature to control that beast. :) Plus it allows you to look at any part of your model from basically any angle. It would be cool to have the option to toggle off that 3rd axis, but that isn't really the nature of LW. They tend to not have a toggle to make everyone happy, it's deal with it, or find a work around.

So.. your not alone.

shrox
06-29-2010, 01:21 PM
I don't think he is talking about gimbal lock. I think he means rotating in the perspective viewport.

Dreamcube, yes.. some programs limit your rotation so your viewport camera never banks. The 3d space will always remain oriented with the same up direction in respect to the camera. However as you noticed, LW is not like this. It allows you to bank and look at your model from virtually any angle. Modo is VERY similar to lightwave right now, in it's modeling section. You can also get flipped around in modo, however modo is missing one thing that lightwave has. If you alt-click on the outer edge of the viewport, you get a pure bank rotation where it locks the other axis.

This free rotation used to drive me nuts after coming from maya back in the day, maya rotated like you are wanting (not sure if it still does), then to suddenly get all flipped around... When Solidworks people try to interface with lightwave they get all confused and twisted around too, and can't actually control it, because of the free rotation. :)

Honestly though, I have really gotten used to it and it doesn't even register as weird, it's second nature to control that beast. :) Plus it allows you to look at any part of your model from basically any angle. It would be cool to have the option to toggle off that 3rd axis, but that isn't really the nature of LW. They tend to not have a toggle to make everyone happy, it's deal with it, or find a work around.

So.. your not alone.

When the modeller perspective viewport does that thing where it will only rotate around one axis, (usually the Y axis for me looking straight down at the subject), that is gimbal lock.

4dartist
06-29-2010, 01:34 PM
Shrox do you click the rotate button up in the corner to initiate rotating the viewport? I think you're right, it acts differently when using that button and I can see what you mean about it getting into gimbal lock.

If you alt-left click in the viewport it acts differently and it's much easier to keep oriented in the direction you want. Plus you get that bonus region on the outer edge of the viewport where you can lock to rotate on bank only. :)

Nicolas Jordan
06-29-2010, 01:39 PM
Don't mean to hijack the thread, but since we're on rotating things, rotating the camera in modeler is ANNOYING.

I wish it worked like it did in Layout. I don't like how when I rotate the camera, sometimes it'll tilt, or get off center from the object... or sometimes it'll just go completly upside down and flipped backwards. is there a way to turn the tumbling off? It'd be much better if it just rotated around the object and DID NOT tilt at all.

Any ideas?

If you use the orbit icon in the upper right corner of the viewport when navigating you won't get any tilting but if you hold down the alt key to do this you will.

digefxgrp
06-29-2010, 01:39 PM
The plugin I use that allows for rotations in 10ths of a degree is Pictrix's SP_Roll. http://www.pictrix.jp/lw/Sp_Roll/

Modelers Rove Tool also offers micro-rotation amounts, but the Pictrix tool has options and snapping features that Rove doesn't.

4dartist
06-29-2010, 01:48 PM
OOooo I see now.. clicking the rotate button does the 2 axis rotate with possible gimbal on top and bottom. alt Lclicking in the viewport does the 3 axis rotate that you can get upside down in. Haven't clicked that rotate button in years..

DanD
06-29-2010, 03:22 PM
Thanks digefxgrp, I'll give those a try. I never really tried the rove tool before, that looks promising and nice and easy to use too.

Dan

geothefaust
06-29-2010, 03:50 PM
OOooo I see now.. clicking the rotate button does the 2 axis rotate with possible gimbal on top and bottom. alt Lclicking in the viewport does the 3 axis rotate that you can get upside down in. Haven't clicked that rotate button in years..

Note: You cannot use the icons with a tablet and stylus if it's on screens edge. PITA.

prometheus
07-01-2010, 08:26 AM
The tumbling you describe is called gimbal lock, its when two of the rotation axises (axes, I know) align and rotate in the same manner. Bad enough in 3D software, even worse in a spacecraft...

Yeah I guess the apollo 13 crew had that problem right?..

Michael

Andyjaggy
07-01-2010, 09:08 AM
Just some of the annoyances that have driven me away from using modeler.

4dartist
07-01-2010, 09:14 AM
Just use the alt-left click to rotate. It only takes some practice, then you'll have it mastered. You may even like it more than the way the button works, like I do. :)

Snosrap
07-02-2010, 09:40 AM
Just use the alt-left click to rotate. It only takes some practice, then you'll have it mastered. You may even like it more than the way the button works, like I do. :)
Yep, it's the bomb.

h2oStudios
07-05-2010, 04:08 PM
Bah, I still like the button better. And if ya get tilted on bank or in the wrong way, just hold CTRL and it'll snap u back into an axis.

as for fine rotation, i just zoom in like a madman if need be, or type in the value.