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badllarma
09-15-2003, 09:39 AM
Just out of intrest .............. any new screen shots or more info avalible yet Proton?

Matt
09-15-2003, 10:20 AM
Is it me or has anyone noticed the distinct lack of output from NewTek after SIGGRAPH?

I hope it's because they're real busy with v8!

:)

anieves
09-15-2003, 10:55 AM
yep, things have died after the Sig screens were posted. I do think they are quite busy working on v8 but they should throw something out once in a while to keep people talking!

jr_sunshine
09-15-2003, 11:16 AM
Proton was just about to show some screenies but has since gone into hiding... lol. Actually, he coughed up some "lame" excuse about having to get the NewTek pointy hair types to approve showing new screens. Sheesh.

(tongue in cheek)

;-)

badllarma
09-15-2003, 11:58 AM
Thats want I was thinking, Matt I'm not wanting to start a rant as to when it's out or anything just would like to see....or hear how things are going with (hopefully) some screen shots.

Siggraph has been and gone so there (I feel) no need for all the preSiggraph secrecy etc.... why not just let us see a little more.

Finally I just like to say congratulations to all the Newtek team Area 51 and Zoic. for the award winning work:D

cagey5
09-15-2003, 12:11 PM
ok. Just to pass the time let's start a book on what date Lightwave 8 will be posted on the website, available for download.

I'll go for October 28th.

Proton, Deuce and Chuck you're more than welcome to play!

pixelmonk
09-15-2003, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by cagey5
ok. Just to pass the time let's start a book on what date Lightwave 8 will be posted on the website, available for download.

I'll go for October 28th.

Proton, Deuce and Chuck you're more than welcome to play!

earlier... probably one of the reasons why we haven't heard anything over the past month. Also, the deal for DFX+ expires today. I'd say it's right around the corner (maybe in public beta, pre-release or final form). It looked pretty close to completion at Sig, and I think with Newtek stating the development model of VT3 would be used with Lightwave, we could see more frequent updates to the base software. This potentially means we get a fully operational product real soon and have enhancements coming when available.

mattclary
09-15-2003, 02:34 PM
Yeah, the pessimist in me says some time in 2004, but the part of me that looks for little clues in stupid stuff says before the end of October. Newtek has been DEATHLY quiet here lately.

jin choung
09-15-2003, 03:48 PM
d'oh,

well hopefully they're working on adding some stuff/fixing/revising MODELER!!!

why does modeler get treated like the ugly child? esp when in cross platform environments, it's probably the most omnipresent....

ah well....


jin

badllarma
09-15-2003, 04:03 PM
I'll go for the 9th October just because it's my birthday :D

badllarma
09-15-2003, 04:05 PM
may be they could call it
"Lightwave 8 pre release Badllarma birthday special"

:D :D

omeone
09-15-2003, 04:29 PM
30 Nov.. cos it's mine ;)
I'm speculating they are listening and are adding some last minute modeller / renderer enhancements, just to really blow us all away.

ngrava
09-15-2003, 06:07 PM
What I think is funny is the complete lack of marketing talent. ;-) Sorry, I mean just look at the LW[8] Announcement on the NewTek site. It's laughable really. Take a look at some of these oh so expressive statements:

- Improved workflow in Layout and Modeler
[What? What exactly do they mean by this?]
- Rigid Body Dynamics
[Uh huh?]
- Improved Soft Body Dynamics
[Don't they already have this?]
- Faster IK, FK
[Ugh! How many time have I read this just before a release. What would make us believe it this time?]
- Bone Dynamics
[Huh? that one sounds interesting but no more information?]
- More powerful and flexible character animation controls and tools
[This has got to be the most ambiguous statement!]
- Improved character setup workflow
[Oh. I take that back. This is the most ambiguous statement!]
- New Particle System Tools
[Hey this is a line from the 7.5 promo]
- Animatable UV coordinates
[Uh... Ok... ]
- Improvements to Lscript(TM) scripting language and to the API
[Ugh....]

So as you can see, we are either dealing with people who are to busy to write promo material, they don't actually want people to get excited about V8, or there is a deficit of talent in that dept.

Let me just give you an example. I'll take a whack at it:

- Many new work flow encasements including new context sensitive right click menus that give you quick access to properties of just about anything you see on the screen.

- New Improved soft and rigid body Dynamics and particle systems that gives near real-time results. New features include smoother workflow, Dynamic bone chains, and true cloth simulations with sewing and cutting.

- Entirely new natural IK system based on dynamic joint Locking and fixing on a frame by frame basis. Properties can be accessed through right click menus. Automatic IK/FK.

- Easier character rigging through the integration of The Setup Machine and Ortho plugins.

See, now doesn't that sound better ;-) Now, I'm far from a marketing genius but it seems like the company would want people to know these things... The again, maybe not. :-)

-=GB=-

pixelmonk
09-15-2003, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by jin choung
d'oh,

well hopefully they're working on adding some stuff/fixing/revising MODELER!!!

why does modeler get treated like the ugly child? esp when in cross platform environments, it's probably the most omnipresent....

ah well....


jin

what's wrong with Modeler? I'd say Modeler is the stronger of the two peices of Lightwave. Some studios claim to animate in Maya but model in Lightwave (and render too). It would be cool to see some added stuff in Modeler like updated UV tools and possibly edges (a no go unless more stuff can be added to the file format), but Layout was the thing that needs more attention.

pixelmonk
09-15-2003, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by ngrava
What I think is funny is the complete lack of marketing talent. ;-) Sorry, I mean just look at the LW[8] Announcement on the NewTek site. It's laughable really. Take a look at some of these oh so expressive statements:-=GB=-

Yeah.. I agree their statements are a bit vague. Some of the screen caps and movies from Siggraph help, but it's still not a comprehensive list. There's probably a good reason why it hasn't been updated with a list of all the updates as some are probably being added while others are being taken out till a later time. Only those in the know, know!!! :)

jin choung
09-15-2003, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by pixelmonk
what's wrong with Modeler? I'd say Modeler is the stronger of the two peices of Lightwave. Some studios claim to animate in Maya but model in Lightwave (and render too). It would be cool to see some added stuff in Modeler like updated UV tools and possibly edges (a no go unless more stuff can be added to the file format), but Layout was the thing that needs more attention.

here we go again....

1. edges
2. edge tools
3. sds edge sharpening
4. non distorting uv mapping of sds surfaces
5. snapping to a visible grid
6. more shading options per layer, object, etc.... instead of per window (and even if it is per window, more useful options like wireframe on textured, etc...)
7. better projection GIZMO than the godawful texture guide... current one is buggy and not only that, damn ugly. better gizmos for all real time tools that require such an onscreen interface.

agreed, modeler is by far the more capable... not only in compared to layout but other modeling workflows in superior apps. but that doesn't mean that there isn't CONSIDERABLE room for improvement.

jin

luka
09-15-2003, 07:25 PM
Yes I have to agree with Jin:D

Rory_L
09-15-2003, 08:38 PM
It`s the plate spinning trick. If Newtek didn`t concentrate on the Layout shortcomings this time round, that plate would stop spinning and crash to the ground. They`ll get to Modeler in good time.

They`ve said so.

R

Dodgy
09-16-2003, 04:09 AM
Exactly... LW was criticised for having weak character tools, and so they've fixed this. Modeler is the tool of choice in the industry for modelling in, so they haven't concentrated on this area. That's not to say it won't be worked on, but IMHO it has the most free plugins which extend it's funtionality no end. I came from Imagine, which had edge tools and I was stunned when I found out LW didn't have edges. But then I found by using it you didn't really need them. I still think the only time you need edges is for sub'd sharpening, everything else can be done with points or poly selections. Even edge sharpening can be achieved with adding geometry, though it is not as neat as proper edge sharpening would be. To be honest I'd rather see improvements in other areas before modelling. But then I have different requirements to you :)

pixelmonk
09-16-2003, 07:03 AM
Originally posted by Dodgy
Exactly... LW was criticised for having weak character tools, and so they've fixed this. Modeler is the tool of choice in the industry for modelling in, so they haven't concentrated on this area. That's not to say it won't be worked on, but IMHO it has the most free plugins which extend it's funtionality no end. I came from Imagine, which had edge tools and I was stunned when I found out LW didn't have edges. But then I found by using it you didn't really need them. I still think the only time you need edges is for sub'd sharpening, everything else can be done with points or poly selections. Even edge sharpening can be achieved with adding geometry, though it is not as neat as proper edge sharpening would be. To be honest I'd rather see improvements in other areas before modelling. But then I have different requirements to you :)

I agree... most of the complaints/requests, if you want to tally them up, are with Layout whether it be with char tools, particles, soft bodies, hard bodies, more rendering options (3rd party support) and of course SDK (both Layout and Modeler). The list does go on from there. There's a wealth of Lscripts for Modeler which aid in anything from simple to complex tasks. One I swear by is the Edge Tool. Of course we could get into symantics about whether Newtek should put that capability into LW, but I say why... it's in LW once you download the script. I could care less who makes it!

cresshead
09-16-2003, 09:57 AM
i'm pretty much convinced that the release of lightwave 8 will NOT be as lack lustre ['suse the discreet pun] and just plain boring as max6, combustion 3 and maya 5 was/is/will be...

from what i've see n on the newtek sigg broadcast it looks a pretty exciting release so far..and that was over a month back..with load's of things to make to "8's" release....and were NOT shown...

yeah there's load's of "could be's" to include in lw8 but i think their approach to make character rigging and animating a thing that you actually look forward to is stunning and most other app could well do to follow..same with the cloth and particle editing tools we saw...

a couple of things i'd like to see is:

1.a auto lipsysnc plug similar to what's in motion builder or voice o matic for max...

2.a single pass antialising feature like max has just for fast renders...in addition to the current one's and NOT to replace them.