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View Full Version : Skelegons- What are they? How do they work?



Holdesta
06-16-2010, 02:35 PM
:help: Hey guys...I'm back. In a few weeks I have been able to go from royally confused all the way to rigging but now I'm a bit stuck. All advice is welcome

Ok so I understand the concept of the skelegon...ie a two point poly that holds the place of a bone later in layout...but I'm having some difficulties.

1) How do you modify the parenting in modler of your skelegons? Ex I made a pelvis to thigh1 to shin1 rig. Then mirriored the thigh1 and shin1 to leg 2. How do I now parent leg 2's rig to the pelvis?

2) In my book (inside lightwave by dan ablan) it talk about assigning weight maps in modler but I can't seem to find the controls.

3) Actual skelegon bone conversion in layout does not seem to be working. I originally created the skelegon in modler on a spereate layer from my blue girl mesh but then pasted in in the same layer for conversion but I still seem to be having trouble.

Thanks so much guys :)

nickdigital
06-16-2010, 03:07 PM
1) How do you modify the parenting in modler of your skelegons? Ex I made a pelvis to thigh1 to shin1 rig. Then mirriored the thigh1 and shin1 to leg 2. How do I now parent leg 2's rig to the pelvis?

2) In my book (inside lightwave by dan ablan) it talk about assigning weight maps in modler but I can't seem to find the controls.

3) Actual skelegon bone conversion in layout does not seem to be working. I originally created the skelegon in modler on a spereate layer from my blue girl mesh but then pasted in in the same layer for conversion but I still seem to be having trouble.


1&2) You can change parenting and assign weight maps via the Skelegon Tree window in Modeler.

3)Can you be more specific as to what the problem is? Select the layer that has the skelegons and if you hit the "convert skelegons to bones" button in Layout your skelegons should become bones.

RebelHill
06-16-2010, 04:28 PM
Drawing the skelegons in modeller I go for... but all the parenting and assigning weight stuff is better done in layout... gives more open ended options, is easier and clearer, etc.

Ah hey, works for me right.

Holdesta
06-17-2010, 11:26 AM
1&2) You can change parenting and assign weight maps via the Skelegon Tree window in Modeler.

3)Can you be more specific as to what the problem is? Select the layer that has the skelegons and if you hit the "convert skelegons to bones" button in Layout your skelegons should become bones.

The problem for query 3 is must all parts...legs...torso...skelegons etc, must they all be in the same layer once you want to move it to layout?

nickdigital
06-17-2010, 11:29 AM
Yes, a single mesh can't use different skeletons.

But a single mesh can use the skeletons from a different object though.

Holdesta
06-17-2010, 11:34 AM
AH HA!...it worked :) Thanks

Last question for now lol

So when I open the skelegon tree in modler, the bones are named 01-04 but there are 4 groups of 01-04. How do I tell what skelegons are what so I can rename them?

nickdigital
06-17-2010, 11:51 AM
Dstorm's skelegoneditor should help with that.

It's under the bone/skelegon link.

http://www.dstorm.co.jp/dsproducts/lw9/FreePlugins/Modeler/

Holdesta
06-17-2010, 12:47 PM
OH MY GERERRERERERERERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

*breath breath* can anyone tell me where I can change what a bone's parent bone is? IE change the wrist bone's parent to forearm instead of shoulder? Thanks

nickdigital
06-17-2010, 12:59 PM
In Modeler's Skelegon Tree you should be able to drag the wrist bone and drag it under the forearm to change the parent-child association.

I can't remember if DStorm's Skelegon Editor lets you adjust this.

In Layout you could do this with the Scene Editor or the Motions panel. Just keep in mind that since your skelegons are now bones that means they've probably been activated. So any change to your hierarchy will mess up your rig and geometry. You'll want to turn the bones off, change your hierarchy and then rest them again.

I would recommend Rebelhill's rigging tutorials. His tutorials are really excellent.
http://www.rebelhill.net/

Holdesta
06-17-2010, 01:10 PM
*kisses nickdigital* Thanks was about to throw the computer out the window lol

Self taught is so frustrating, not so much the amount to learn but just the little things like this that slip through the cracks.

nickdigital
06-17-2010, 01:16 PM
:thumbsup:

Good luck.

Rigging alone is a huge subject to learn. Rebelhill's tutorials are really excellent. Plus with the new tools in 9.6 the type of rig he creates is really flexible and powerful.

Holdesta
06-17-2010, 01:19 PM
*Cries*

now all the pretty bones are in the right order...activated...and....nothing happens. not affecting my mesh.

*curls up in ball* too much to learn!!! What did I do wrong now?

Cageman
06-17-2010, 01:25 PM
Hi Holdesta, and welcome! :)

As others have mentioned, Rebel Hills rigging videos is the best. Even if I have been doing alot of that stuff, I picked up many neat tricks from his videos.

If you are going to use weightmaps, I recommend you to name your weightmaps with the same name as the skelegons in Modeler because once you convert your skelegons into bones in Layout, the weights are automaticly assigned to the corresponding bone.

Anyho...

Good luck and have fun. Make sure to post any questions on this forum, and, again, check out Rebel Hills trainingvideos!

Cheers!

nickdigital
06-17-2010, 01:27 PM
Under the Setup tab in Layout is "Bones On" and "Enable Deform" on?

Cageman
06-17-2010, 01:29 PM
*Cries*

now all the pretty bones are in the right order...activated...and....nothing happens. not affecting my mesh.

*curls up in ball* too much to learn!!! What did I do wrong now?

Hmm...

When you convert skelegons into bones in Layout, they are usually rested and activated, which means they should deform the mesh if moved or rotated.

If you go to the Setup-tab in Layout, make sure Enable Deform in activated. Sometimes it happens that it is deactivated.

Holdesta
06-17-2010, 01:31 PM
oh...ha..ha...yes well having that on helps lol

Holdesta
06-17-2010, 01:36 PM
she's totally deformed horribly but at leat she's responding to the bones lol

nickdigital
06-17-2010, 01:43 PM
This is where you get into adding hold bones and weight maps if necessary.

Clean deformation will also depend on how your geometry is modeled; polygon flow, edge loops, how dense the model is, etc.

If your object is sub'd make sure to set the subdivision order to Last under the Object Properties window.

Cageman
06-17-2010, 01:46 PM
she's totally deformed horribly but at leat she's responding to the bones lol

In such case, open the scene-editor, shift-select all your bones, Press P to bring up Properties Panel. You should see a checkbox that says Bone Active. Press that to inactivate the bones. This should force the mesh to pop back into an undeformed state. Now, press 'r' to re-rest and re-activate the bones. Maybe you have to make sure your bones are in a proper pose before re-resting the bones though.

:)

Holdesta
06-17-2010, 01:53 PM
Well the blue girl mesh it from my tutorials so it's clean. The lower body is working, pelvis, thighs shins. it's the torso that is twisting her ...not sure how to tell if the bone is twisted

Holdesta
06-17-2010, 01:56 PM
In such case, open the scene-editor, shift-select all your bones, Press P to bring up Properties Panel. You should see a checkbox that says Bone Active. Press that to inactivate the bones. This should force the mesh to pop back into an undeformed state. Now, press 'r' to re-rest and re-activate the bones. Maybe you have to make sure your bones are in a proper pose before re-resting the bones though.

:)

OH SWEET! THATS how you reset them....ok that worked and makes sense...so whenever I want to adjust bones, first diactivate and reset. I must have twisted something while a bone was active. You guys rock...sleep well tonight know there is a much less stressed gal in MN lol

nickdigital
06-17-2010, 02:02 PM
You could...

You don't wanna get into a situation where you're editing your bones too much after you've started animating. It's not impossible but it can be a headache.

If LW had something to the equivalent of Messiah's Setup tab that would be great. Hopefully Core has this.

Holdesta
06-17-2010, 02:05 PM
OH she's working beautifully...thanks so much guys!

Cageman
06-17-2010, 02:11 PM
Holdesta,

Out of curiosity, do you have any thoughts on where you want to take your use of 3D? Is it just a hobby right now, or is it something you want to be able to get a career with?

Holdesta
06-17-2010, 02:26 PM
Well Cageman,

I would say in between. I graduated last year with a theatre degree from the university of Minnesota. I am primarily an actress, having performed since I was 3. However I always have enjoyed the technical side as well, particularly in film. So I started with learning basic photography, then moved to Photoshop and still image manipulation to Magix movie editing and now to Lighhtwave for 3D creation.

Basically I wanna be able to make my own movie lol complete with special effects :) I take it quite seriously because I figure the more I understand about the film industary from all angles the better my chances of "makin it".

Also my Dad is an engineer and wants my help to create educational videos for kids about electronics. So he bought the program and pays me to learn it. Pretty sweet deal actually.

Holdesta
06-17-2010, 03:06 PM
Basically I hope to be able to do something like this one day
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44uPmo6PgWk&feature=related

nickdigital
06-17-2010, 03:18 PM
Basically I hope to be able to do something like this one day
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44uPmo6PgWk&feature=related

Cool. The beauty of LW is you practically have a movie studio all in one package.