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View Full Version : UV and Nurbs problem: solution needed fast



Geoff Vane
06-09-2010, 08:14 AM
I made a model and put an UV map on it.

Now when I press tab to nurb, all kinds of small crazes appear in the texture.

I have not got the time to drag hundreds of points in the UV texture window. No option whatsoever.

I there a fast solution or am I f'ed?

UnCommonGrafx
06-09-2010, 08:20 AM
What's your model of?
And we don't have nurbs; they are called subpatches.

What you describe is an object made of triangles, more than 4 points to the polygon or with polygons inside of the edges.

Lots of probs you could be having...
Look on this forum for subpatch modelling.

3DGFXStudios
06-09-2010, 08:23 AM
You just have to set your uv's to sub patch. Press F8 to get the vertex panel. Normaly you do that when you make the uv's but in case you forget to do it right you can change it in the vertex panel

Geoff Vane
06-09-2010, 08:25 AM
I have no time to browse. Deadline is now.

It's a soccer ball. Smoothing the surface gave uneven tensions.

Normally I solve this with a catmull subpatch.
The model does become perfect, but the UV is horrible.

I tried freezing first and then re-UV: same stupid result

3DGFXStudios
06-09-2010, 08:26 AM
F8 f8 f8 f8 f8 f8 f8 f8

Geoff Vane
06-09-2010, 08:27 AM
I press F8 in modeler: I see no option to put UV's on sub patch.

3DGFXStudios
06-09-2010, 08:29 AM
Does this help.. Your uv's are probably set to Linear. :D

Geoff Vane
06-09-2010, 08:32 AM
Thanks for trying to help...

I found it, but it looks still the same: horrible wobbly

Geoff Vane
06-09-2010, 08:37 AM
The F8 trick does not help.
Do I need to freeze first or is there any other option?

3DGFXStudios
06-09-2010, 08:46 AM
Mmmm strange. Is the texture crapy when you render it? Are the uv's generated in LW or some other app?

Geoff Vane
06-09-2010, 08:52 AM
Normal but not smooth:

http://screencast.com/t/MmI4N2JmNzg

Sub patched but with distorted texture:

http://screencast.com/t/YzUxMjU5Y

I never have any luck with LW. If this can't be solved, I'm gonna quit using it. I can't deal with another LW deadline crisis anymore.

3DGFXStudios
06-09-2010, 09:08 AM
I think you merged some points. also it's never a good idea to smooth triagles. Try to put the mesh in separate layers.

zarti
06-09-2010, 09:13 AM
I never have any luck with LW. If this can't be solved, I'm gonna quit using it. I can't deal with another LW deadline crisis anymore.

some days before i went through this too ... solution ??

try Blender to UV ( through Collada file ) and back to modeler . this saved me a lot of work and ' neurones ' also . ( link to my post (http://www.newtek.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1023447&postcount=881) )

within 15 minutes i understood ' how to ' and then it was fun and productive .


hope this might be useful for the next deadline ... =)

UnCommonGrafx
06-09-2010, 09:22 AM
I never have any luck with LW. If this can't be solved, I'm gonna quit using it. I can't deal with another LW deadline crisis anymore.

Hmm, Guess we won't be seeing you around here anymore. Guess it's ok to at least say the following before you depart:
It's just software. You either learn it or you don't. Depending on "luck" is like depending on getting a roll at the crap tables in Vegas: probably not gonna go your way.

http://www.3d-tutorial.com/how_to_make_a_soccer_ball-44.html
Seems to be a good tute, and quick enough to do on a two-hour deadline.

You've made some procedural errors in your creation of the ball. Take a little time and check out one or two of them:
http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1DVCI_enUS371US371&aq=0&oq=lightwave+subpatch&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=lightwave+subpatch+tutorial

I found this one to be interesting:
http://www.lightwiki.com/Fundamentals_of_Subpatch_Modeling

Geoff Vane
06-09-2010, 09:39 AM
Right now, I completely lost it. I'm off the handle, big time. Forgive me my whining.

I'm sorry Zarti, thanks for the suggestion but I do not have these programs. It's just too much for me.

UnCommonGrafx, I tried to learn, all these years. I must be too stupid. I mostly fail at 90% of the project. I run into unsolvable problems just before the deadline. Nice tutorials (really) but I have no more two extra hours and this ball is quite different.

Take this ball, it took me three days (far too long) to create and texture it. Everything looked fine, until I pressed tab. How is it, that the model straightens out nicely, and the texture fails. I can't deal with such problems any longer, because I do not know how to solve this. You can not imagine my rage and disappointment, and there's only me to blame without any option to fix it. If this was the first time then I would understand, but it is always like this and LW with me.

3DGFXStudios
06-09-2010, 09:52 AM
You could post the model so we can take a look at it :)

UnCommonGrafx
06-09-2010, 09:53 AM
Ya, I hear ya.
Lots of things in LW for me that haven't stuck so get from whence you come.

A suggestion: post your object so the community can assist and keep you around. Truly, you haven't taken advantage of the thousands of people around the planet willing to assist you if only to learn for themselves.

Upload your object so that we can "get'er done!"

Geoff Vane
06-09-2010, 10:06 AM
Thanks for taking a look. I can understand if ya'll can't fix it.

I tried to post some files. The JPG has more pixels.
The meta morph for UV is included in the base model.
I understand the model is crude, polygon-wise but that's why subpatch usually helps great, and it does, only not on the UV texture. My UV workflow must be bad.

Myagi
06-09-2010, 10:39 AM
I don't know if this helps (ie. fixes what's wrong), but I tried following and at first glance it appeared pretty ok (texturing wise, there are some smoothing artifacts due to unclean geometry)

in poly sel mode, open stats window and select all polys with >4 verts
triple
change SubD-Type to Subpatch
select "jubulani UV" uv map, and change UV Interpolation to subpatch
press Tab



AFAIK uv mapping isn't fully/correctly supported for CC sub-d's (right ?)


edit: for the open geomtry glitches at the seam corners, selecting the verts and using Weld seems to work, for some odd (to me) reason using merge points doesn't work there

3DGFXStudios
06-09-2010, 11:09 AM
AFAIK uv mapping isn't fully/correctly supported for CC sub-d's (right ?)





Correct!

3DGFXStudios
06-09-2010, 11:17 AM
The problem is that your geometry isn't suitable for subpatching. Even CC can't solve this.
What you can do is bake a normal map out of your poly model using a spherical UV map so you know where the lines are. Then project is back on a subpatched ball with displacement or a normalmap

(leuke directory naam trouwens ;) )

Geoff Vane
06-09-2010, 11:29 AM
Myagi, you are a super user indeed. This does solve the texture problem.
No more Catmull Clark UV texturing here. It was my first UV. Where is that button you need to click in stead of F8 afterwards?

There is still geometry lumpyness, but since there is no more time, I'll try to render without any shades. The texture looks fine, I just hope the lumps won't show without shades.

Thanks for the instant panic cure. I just need to stop using LW for important projects. It's too risky in my case.

This is the first time this forum could help me. Usually the mess is too big, like a 3D crowd I tried and some character animation. Never again.

Thumbs up for you people. Thanx!

3DGFXStudios
06-09-2010, 11:46 AM
If you apply this image (After tweakin) on an normal displacement you can make smooth edges.... I'm checking it out for you...

(it's your lines on the ball baked to a uv map)

3DGFXStudios
06-09-2010, 11:52 AM
Here's a nice (quick and sloppy) scene for you with smooth edges. If you trace the contour you can make the edge smaller, it's a bit thick now....

3DGFXStudios
06-09-2010, 11:54 AM
Here's a psd of the lines....I can't make it easier than this.. ;) :bday:

Geoff Vane
06-09-2010, 11:59 AM
I'll have to look at that later maybe. I do not understand everything you say
yet, must do compositing right now...

Does anyone know how to apply polygon reduce +, without losing the UV? If just disappears from the model, while it gives a nice ball after subpatching.

3DGFXStudios
06-09-2010, 12:35 PM
that I don't know ;)

Hieron
06-09-2010, 12:57 PM
There's too many dutch on these boards :)

Sorry mate, never tried polygon reduce + with UV's. It may well toss it out.

shrox
06-09-2010, 01:48 PM
How about making the ball geometry rather than mapped? You can download some fairly detailed soccer balls from Google Sketch Up warehouse.

3DGFXStudios
06-09-2010, 02:15 PM
There's too many dutch on these boards :)

Sorry mate, never tried polygon reduce + with UV's. It may well toss it out.

You can't have to many Dutch on any boards ;) :hey: :D

Danner
06-09-2010, 04:23 PM
"Does anyone know how to apply polygon reduce +, without losing the UV?"

qem loss 3

http://amber.rc.arizona.edu/lw/qemloss3.html

moussepipi2000
06-09-2010, 11:23 PM
you will not use lightwave for important project... i like the way you said it. like lightwave cant give you the result you want. i think you just need more training on it. a good model is a key for a good mapping. CC subpatch with uv are well known for be buggy but other solution are there ! if you cant smooth it in lightwave correctly just smooth it in blender (free soft) and go back to lightwave for rendering.

prometheus
06-10-2010, 02:47 AM
Geoff Vane...this surely raises some questions:) "Using LW for 13 years (from 5.5 till 9.5) and still can't work with it... "



Ever tried another program? maybe you should.

To your defense, uv mapping isnīt the easiest part in the 3d world, if you
constantly find yourself in deadlines and troubles..you might want to consider backing your knowledge up
, and get some tutorials covering issues such as UV mapping, invest in something from kurv studios etc.

Michael

Matt
06-10-2010, 03:19 AM
I loathe UV mapping for anything remotely complex.

biliousfrog
06-10-2010, 03:26 AM
Wise man say, "a bad workman always blames his tools"

Geoff Vane
06-10-2010, 04:50 AM
It's not LW that is to blame. I never said that. It's me.
I'm not very good at it, but I must use it, since it's my job.
Somehow it allways goes wrong when I'm at 90% done.
It took me extremely long to learn what I know and I'm not going to switch apps without any nearby colleague with hands on experience. I haven't got the time to learn something new all over. Even when 3D programs are very similar, I hate switching: I don't switch between Premiere and Avid either because of that. I guess my mind map is too small for such flexibility... Plus I don't use LW daily but say 4 times a year and I never succeed in remembering it's logic or it's layout. Just try and prepare for screamer rendering for instance: Check the path of objects, textures, surfaces, scenes, plugins and the output, check global vs camera settings, pixel sizes, anti-alias settings, field order (from sequence textures too), the frame range, motion blur.... In my view, there are too many things to remember and keep track of. All of them quircks like CC is not compatible with UV. Try and fill your head with that before you begin. Drives me nuts, sorry.

UnCommonGrafx
06-10-2010, 06:01 AM
My friend, you should share your point of view more often. All of your points are valid, of course. And there are tools to assist you in all of this.

Render presets:
http://www.artstorm.net/plugins/render-presets/
Set them once; in three months, click that one preset, and go. No remembering needed.

Never used global settings for the reason you cite: just another thing to stumble over.

akademus
06-10-2010, 06:49 AM
Just apply smoothing at 25 degrees instead of 89.9 and you'll be pretty good for rendering.

BTW. you can't expect this model to be smoothed nicely by subpatching or cc's.

It's just a bad model and you can't blame lw for a model which is obviously modeled somewhere else.

Cheers...

3DGFXStudios
06-10-2010, 08:01 AM
Just apply smoothing at 25 degrees instead of 89.9 and you'll be pretty good for rendering.

BTW. you can't expect this model to be smoothed nicely by subpatching or cc's.

It's just a bad model and you can't blame lw for a model which is obviously modeled somewhere else.

Cheers...

That's why that displacement map I made works perfectly. I extracted it from the model and baked it to a spherical uv map, traced it in illustrator made it smooth, blurred it a bit and applied it back on the model as a normal displacement map.

Geoff Vane
06-11-2010, 03:24 AM
The model has not been modeled somewhere else, I did it all in modeler. However, since I'm not good in math or practical envisioning 3D objects, I took a very complex path to split a tessalation ball into the parts I have now. I made the rounded triangualar patch shape, and stencilled it onto the ball and then carefully rotated it for another one, four in total. Then I used some kind of bevel over normal plugin to get some thickness. Very hard in LW; simple bevel did it wrong and smooth shift too.

If I had a lot of time, I would have then killed all the polygons, and build the whole ball again using the leftover points and spline caging. That's the only way I know to do it right in 3D space, I have no other way to determine the curvature in 3D space. So I normally smack lots of polygons together, stencil correct outlines on them if needed, kill all polys and rebuild with spline cages. I did not have the time to rebuild from spline cages this time.

This ball should have been made, using subpatch modeling and mathematical knowledge from scratch. But I lack the math knowledge to see how this simple elegant ball is made up, and I always have extremely bad luck using subpatch modeling; once you take a wrong turn you can't shove in some polygons or hack something up. My models mostly end up with nasty ridges or they can not be finished because I made a wrong decision some days ago.

Someone who made this ball im MAx, started with a cube, chopped off some edges and used a plugin that makes balls out of objects. I tried some crude platonic solids and the LW ball shaper, but it made crap piles. I have been thinking how to start with a cube but I just heard my ears ringing and nothing else happened.

I repaired most polygons that were split in the stencil process. I tripled all 4+ polygons. That still gave bumps. Then I used smooth. That never works but it did this time! The large surfaces are smooth now. Only the edges are still rippled but that's no big deal. I'm done with the project, but I'll never use objects again which are not 150% perfect in geometry.

For me, there's only one usefull icon: :cursin:

Thank you all for helping and offering solutions and instructions where to look. As I said, this is the first time the forum really helped me out!

3DGFXStudios
06-11-2010, 03:31 AM
I extracted your uv map to a new spherical uv map. Here is is. Now you can just use a normal ball with displacement. If you fix the texture in photoshop you can make a nice smooth texture without edges. Also you can easily add seams by adding some lines in the line texture I posted earlier.

For anyone who wants to know how I did it I can post the scene here. but basically I made a camera from a ball and but the soccerball in it. I used a uv map as a camera back plate.

akademus
06-11-2010, 05:01 AM
Can you please post that scene. Thanks...

3DGFXStudios
06-11-2010, 05:28 AM
Here is the UV Baking scene and the displacement scene. Everything is extracted from the model Geoff posted earlier. The only thing that needs to be done to get a perfect ball is:

-Tweak the RGB texture
-Adding the rest of the seams to the displacement texture, actually that's really simple since you now know where they should be.
-Tweaking the line thickness and falloff to get a perfect rounded seam.

That's all

Also with this camera setup you can make a HDRI from your 3D scene and apply it back to an other scene to use it as a light map. Handy If you got for example a scene with lots of DOF and a central model in the middle.

Like in this awesome video clip made by digital domain. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDsqpeiTqg8

Geoff Vane
06-12-2010, 02:57 AM
You made a camera of a ball?
Can't I just go along with the white men to the funny place, please?

UnCommonGrafx
06-12-2010, 08:18 AM
Nope, chuckle, you gotta stick around a learn some more of this stuff.

haha