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oliversimonnet
06-06-2010, 03:59 AM
hello every one
i have never done an animation of a character talking before, so i was wondering if any one knew how many morphs i need to give a character on his mouth, to be able to make him/her talk?

thank you in advance

-Oliver

OnlineRender
06-06-2010, 04:08 AM
(a) depends on how accurate you want the lyp sync .
(b) are we talking morphs or using bones just to open the mouth .
download Facegen and export ,it has all morphs attachted to the obj file . will give you better idea .
I know you can get away with some phonic sounds that the mouth shape make are the same or similar ..

like i said it just depends on how complex you want to make it .

OnlineRender
06-06-2010, 04:12 AM
•A and I: For the A and I vowel sounds, the lips are generally pulled a bit wider, teeth open, tongue visible and flat against the floor of the mouth.
•E: The E phoneme is similar to the A and I, but the lips are stretched a bit wider, the corners uplifted more, and the mouth and teeth closed a bit more.
•U: For the U sound, the lips are pursed outwards, drawn into a pucker but still somewhat open; the teeth open, and the tongue somewhat lifted.
•O: Again the mouth is drawn to a pucker, but the lips don't purse outwards, and the mouth is rounder, the tongue flat against the floor of the mouth.
•C, D, G, K, N, R, S, Th, Y, and Z: Long list, wasn't it? This configuration pretty much covers all the major hard consonants: lips mostly closed, stretched wide, teeth closed or nearly closed.
•F and V: Mouth at about standard width, but teeth pressed down into the lower lip. At times there can be variations closer to the D/Th configuration.
•L: The mouth is open and stretched apart much like the A/I configuration, but
•M, B, and P: These sounds are made with the lips pressed together; it's the duration that matters. "M" is a long hold, "mmm"; "B" is a shorter hold then part, almost a "buh" sound; P is a quick hold, puff of air.
•W and Q: These two sounds purse the mouth the most, almost closing it over the teeth, with just the bottoms of the upper teeth visible, sometimes not even that. Think of a "rosebud mouth".
•Rest Position: Think of this as the "slack" position, when the mouth is at rest--only with the thread of drool distinctly absent.

oliversimonnet
06-06-2010, 04:19 AM
no i don't want it to be really accurate, i prefer doing cartoon style characters so it doesn't have to look real

aaa cool
thank you for all that info, it is much appreciated :)

silviotoledo
06-06-2010, 10:27 AM
I use to do vowels ( A E I O U ) and some consonants ( M, S, D, E, S, L ) only.

Vowels have unique shape. So you need doing all. Because the sound pass free at larynx and uses only the shape of the mouth to change the sound.

For consonants, the other adjacent elements as lips and cheek are in use.


read some linguistic studies and you will understand the groups of consonants.

In portuguese we call double lips consonant ( M, P B ) , dental-lips consonant, tounge-tooth ( L ) ...

Do one consonant for each group and be happy!

Generally it works great!

But like said, it's relative.

I've heard that GOLUM had around 800 morph targets at his face.

oliversimonnet
06-06-2010, 02:50 PM
aa thank you.
800 whoow, that's a lot hehe
since Avater they have started using the facial motion capture thing (im not sure what its called) were people have little dots on their face and a camera with an light (or something like that) i have heard that they are using it on the new warhammer 40k film.

thank you :)

digitaldoc
06-06-2010, 03:06 PM
Jeff Lew, creator of Killer Bean, www.jefflew.com showed how he did it in the DVD extras. Basically put dots around his mouth, filmed with a standard video camera and transposed to morphs.

oliversimonnet
06-06-2010, 04:11 PM
@digitaldoc: a cool i did not know that :)
@Megalodon: thanks for the link :)

oliversimonnet
06-06-2010, 04:53 PM
Jeff Lew, creator of Killer Bean, www.jefflew.com showed how he did it in the DVD extras. Basically put dots around his mouth, filmed with a standard video camera and transposed to morphs.

that link you linked (http://www.jefflew.com/) is that useful to people who use LightWave instead of the program he uses, its just im no good at animation, its the timing and stuff i never get it write hehe, and i would do with a good video on animation.

thanks

oliversimonnet
06-06-2010, 05:59 PM
@Megalodon: aa ok cool.
wow 6 grand that's a bit above me at the moment haha
but MOCAP is more for realistic like animation because it is a human working it.
where i prefer to do cartoony stuff (at the moment anyway)

thank you for the info Megalodon :)

oliversimonnet
06-07-2010, 02:43 PM
when i do all the morphs on my characters face, should i do:
brows
mouth
and eyes.
or
brows
mouth
eyes
and a few expressions like anger happiness..etc

thank you in advance

OnlineRender
06-07-2010, 03:01 PM
when i do all the morphs on my characters face, should i do:
brows
mouth
and eyes.
or
brows
mouth
eyes
and a few expressions like anger happiness..etc

thank you in advance

put it this way , nearly every muscle on your face is connected to all of the above :D .

you do like key morphs and inbetwenies :D " sorry not the technical term " for example Left Brow Up <- Left Brown down , although you can move the motionmixer in negitive it causes the mesh to go crazy , ect again just depends on what look your going for .

oliversimonnet
06-07-2010, 03:14 PM
aaa ok
thank you :)

oliversimonnet
06-07-2010, 04:57 PM
aa ok cool
i will keep that in mind.
i dont know if this is normal but
i have done morphs on the mouth of one of my characters
and they all look perfect in modeler but when i go to layout and scrole thrue it is all mesed up

here are some images to show you what my problem is :
85455 85456

shrox
06-07-2010, 05:01 PM
The biggest error I often see is under-enunciation of words, while they may be "motion capture accurate", they look like they are mumbling.

oliversimonnet
06-07-2010, 05:41 PM
@Oliver: thank you for the link :)

RebelHill
06-08-2010, 06:43 AM
First the reason ur thing looks different in layout is becuase u need to set subdiv order to last (or after morfing).

As for the stop staring book... this basically is the same sorta method I use for face setup, and involves making combination shapes, so as you get control over different sections of the face. This approach works much much better than making phonemes and expression shapes, as the problem with them is... you may be able to make a nice big smile morf, and a nice "Oooh" morf... but there'll be problems when you try to animate between them, and the mesh will do unpleasant things during the inbetween, which is very, or impossible hard to fix.

A combination shape setup not only avoids this issue, but also gives a much more wide range of available expressions and posability in the face.

oliversimonnet
06-08-2010, 07:41 AM
aaaa hehe thank you RebelHill.
so the "Stop Staring..." book is a good book to have then hehe.

thank you for the help :)

meshmaster
06-08-2010, 08:04 AM
Take a look at the pics over at

http://www.garycmartin.com/mouth_shapes.html

Also, you might check out DAZ Studio... http://daz3d.com (http://daz.com) I think most of the free models over there have morphs in them. Simply go in to daz studio and export each morph as an object, and put it all back together in Lightwave with use background layer as morph to get a good idea of what all is needed.

oliversimonnet
06-08-2010, 09:09 AM
@meshmaster: aa thank you for the link :) it is very helpful :)

this dosent have nything to do with morphs but, my Proxy picker plugin has disappeared and i cant find any ware to download it
how do i get it back? its not even in my LightWave program file :s

thank you in advance

R.Feeney
06-09-2010, 07:48 AM
aa ok cool
i will keep that in mind.
i dont know if this is normal but
i have done morphs on the mouth of one of my characters
and they all look perfect in modeler but when i go to layout and scrole thrue it is all mesed up

here are some images to show you what my problem is :
85455 85456

Try setting your subdivision order to after morph or last if you prefer, it should help with the strangeness :thumbsup:
Edit- I was a bit late with that, for some reason the rest of the thread didnt show up for me.

oliversimonnet
06-09-2010, 01:30 PM
hello
i did not want to open a whole new thread just for this cuestion so i thought i would post it here

in the film "Robots" the bad guys, that are all shiny, well, their neck is made of like a load of rings, does any one know haw they have managed to animate this?
i mean would it be done with a bone for each ring, and IK on them or something? (in the neck)
i donít really know how to explain it but here watch the trailer and you will hopefully know what i am on about haha :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gbt9BLrOIQ

thank you in advance