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prometheus
05-26-2010, 06:42 AM
ehh..I was a little bit sad to see that it seems, that bakudan probably wonīt be completed, but do check the bakudan site so no unnecessary speculation arises.

it looks that the arrival of turbulence 4d and how far it was developed already took the steem out of the guys behind bakudan, and some illness issues.

I do hope they continue thou, since it sounded so sweet and with all the dynamite particle properties planned to be implemented, and since I just cant get the turbulence 4d fluids to work in itīs latest build( simulation hangs) I wanted to see if development of it was progressing, but sadly it seems not.

Michael

geo_n
05-26-2010, 07:07 AM
T4d works for me. What version are you using?

prometheus
05-26-2010, 07:26 AM
T4d works for me. What version are you using?

lw 9.6 windows vista 32 bit, the latest turbulence build.

but no one of the builds has worked to simulate properly, the first
version was hanging when trying to pause or stop the sim, but that build worked best and simulated pretty fast.

the second build crashed demo sample scenes
and the latest..just freezes the sim a few frames in the simulation, no matter if itīs a sample scene or from scratch.

log has been sent, so Im just waiting and hoping for a build that works
on this machine, unfortunatly I canīt test it at my machine at home due to some hardware issues.

Michael

Hieron
05-26-2010, 07:31 AM
Never had any issues here at all, I've been amazed how stable it has been. Afaik he develops the 64 bit one mostly and advices to use it, yet ports a 32 bit as well.

64 bit 9.6 here, Vista.

prometheus
05-26-2010, 08:20 AM
Never had any issues here at all, I've been amazed how stable it has been. Afaik he develops the 64 bit one mostly and advices to use it, yet ports a 32 bit as well.

64 bit 9.6 here, Vista.


well thatīs the thing, im on 32 bit.:hey:
Seriously, I donīt have a clue of why itīs halting the way it does.

others with 32 bit and vista donīt seem to be complaining..so I donīt know...Im not getting anywere thou with it, so I have to wait until I get a new machine and try it on that.

Michael

prometheus
05-27-2010, 05:59 AM
one thing that I surely would like to see even thou it seems that bakudan are on hold or stopped or whatever.

Itīs a further development of the voxel shader, even if the fluids are abanned, it would be awesome if we could have an improved voxel system with the best from hypervoxels and dynamite voxels..extract the goodies out from the fireshader and metaballs on polyons, but make it useful with a hypervoxels procedural textures and hypertexture effects, and do not hesitate to improve those hypertexture effects with some new ones and time scaling or freezing effect over time.
lastly..and very important..distance between particles parameter settings on every channel possible.

So a complete focus on a new voxel system could be an idea perhaps if thereīs no time and steem for the fluids, I donīt think thatīs up the sleeve for jawset, as for now that is.

Michael

mav3rick
05-27-2010, 06:04 AM
well jawset still prove his enthusiasm to develop and implement new features... bukadan is vaporvare with very little and limited info.. it doesnt give me enough encourage that it will not end like dynamite so even if it comes out it will need really lot effort by developer to get clients.

prometheus
05-27-2010, 06:21 AM
well..personally I felt Bakudan was progressing very very slowly, at least how they showcased the progress, one image out there to show.

And I dunno about spreading out information on seperate forums,would be better of to simply have a thread over here at newtek forums for everyone to get the latest info.

hereīs the thread on the latest stat about bakudan it seems.
http://www.battlestarvfx.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=90

and maybe something in here
http://liberty3d.com/

But as oppose to the fluid engine wich jawset already had built the
main stuff for with cinema 4d and he was way ahead in the starting blocks because of that, but a voxel shader might be the other way around(guessing)..I really donīt care who does the work, it is just needed to
improve the voxel system, so if jawset is up to it, well another strength
for him if he getīs the time.

Michael

Hieron
05-27-2010, 07:08 AM
Hmm is it me, or is 27$ for a single rather short technique tutorial a bit on the hefty side. The accompanying video's don't really make a convincing point as well.

prometheus
05-27-2010, 08:48 AM
Hmm is it me, or is 27$ for a single rather short technique tutorial a bit on the hefty side. The accompanying video's don't really make a convincing point as well.

well yeah..that seems quite expensive.

Michael

http://vimeo.com/user680656/videos
http://www.youtube.com/user/PrometheusPhamarus

adamgibson
05-27-2010, 01:49 PM
Did u purchase the video? There might be more on video than you are aware of. I remember back in the day paying $80 to $100 for 3D training videos on blurry VHS tapes.

shrox
05-27-2010, 02:15 PM
Did u purchase the video? There might be more on video than you are aware of. I remember back in the day paying $80 to $100 for 3D training videos on blurry VHS tapes.

Often lame tuts too..

hrgiger
05-27-2010, 02:27 PM
So Bakudan is dead?

SplineGod
05-27-2010, 03:24 PM
Hmm is it me, or is 27$ for a single rather short technique tutorial a bit on the hefty side. The accompanying video's don't really make a convincing point as well.

That might be true if a single short technique is demonstrated and no support is given.
In this case more then one technique is shown and unlimted support provided.
I give a lot of support to people either regarding the material directly or those asking how to apply the techniques to particular problems or projects theyre working on. Usually it ends up with them getting far more out of that 26 bucks. :)
So far Ive yet to get any negative feedback regarding the materials or the support. :)

SplineGod
05-27-2010, 03:25 PM
So Bakudan is dead?

As far as I know its not :)

hrgiger
05-27-2010, 03:26 PM
Well, the more options the better. I just saw that post on the other board where Kat said that T4D had taken some of the steam away from Bakudan and the other guy was sick or something.

Hieron
05-27-2010, 03:51 PM
Did u purchase the video? There might be more on video than you are aware of. I remember back in the day paying $80 to $100 for 3D training videos on blurry VHS tapes.

No I didn't. The description sounds like a 1 technique thing and the 100x80 pixels example video is in some cases (water/bubbles) incomprehensible. If there is more to it, then it should be in the description :)
Would be odd if one needs to buy stuff to find out what is in there. (or a decent look of the final effect btw)

I'm fine with paying money for tutorials btw, that was not my point. But here both a short description and a very very low res render makes me not eager to even pay as little as 27$.




That might be true if a single short technique is demonstrated and no support is given.
In this case more then one technique is shown and unlimted support provided.
I give a lot of support to people either regarding the material directly or those asking how to apply the techniques to particular problems or projects theyre working on. Usually it ends up with them getting far more out of that 26 bucks. :)
So far Ive yet to get any negative feedback regarding the materials or the support. :)



When I saw your nick as a tag, I assumed you did those and thought better of them right away. The site is new, ofcourse, but just wanted to point out that the short description and lack of a decent view of the end result would make me (my humble opinion) hesitate.


I got a good bunch of learning materials acquired over the years but often they are presented quite nicely (Gnomon Workshop, Video Copilot, RebelHill, Luxology's) with a good view of the end result.

Then again, if I do need an apple with waterdroplets I'd buy it right away I suppose :)

djlithium
05-27-2010, 05:42 PM
Well, the more options the better. I just saw that post on the other board where Kat said that T4D had taken some of the steam away from Bakudan and the other guy was sick or something.

Yeah its kind of a drag, but we haven't killed it. It's just on hold for now until I can sort out a different approach for its development. We also have a few other things on the go that now with T4D out, made a bit more sense to explore. Things like Liberty3d.com, the Urantia project over on www.battlestarvfx.com and a few other tools and toys.

Anyway it is what it is and I am not horribly upset about it but I am still going to push it forward as much as I can once I see where things sit after siggraph.

hrgiger
05-27-2010, 06:06 PM
Well best of luck with that Kat.

prometheus
05-28-2010, 12:58 AM
Anyway it is what it is and I am not horribly upset about it but I am still going to push it forward as much as I can once I see where things sit after siggraph.

I surely encourage you to do so, and hope that both of you find the time
and energy for it.

Michael

stevecullum
05-28-2010, 05:50 AM
I surely encourage you to do so, and hope that both of you find the time
and energy for it.

Yeah, its aways sad see development fall away. Perhaps an alternate direction would be best, as Turbulence is going to fill a void and realistically, who would buy another plugin that does the same thing?

Could do with a decent shatter and explosion/dynamics tool to complement T4D... :hey:

prometheus
05-28-2010, 06:56 AM
Yeah, its aways sad see development fall away. Perhaps an alternate direction would be best, as Turbulence is going to fill a void and realistically, who would buy another plugin that does the same thing?

Could do with a decent shatter and explosion/dynamics tool to complement T4D... :hey:

yepp..and improved hypervoxels,dynamite particle shaders.

Michael

djlithium
06-03-2010, 01:33 AM
yepp..and improved hypervoxels,dynamite particle shaders.

Michael

Indeed, our actual goal for Bakudan was to completely replace hypervoxels with perhaps maybe the exception of being used for surface volumes.

One of the things we got hung up on was trying to move things from the CFD volume grid to particles and back. This would have given us the ability for someone to take a PFX element and have it render in a volume box (think how handy that could have been!) or be able to take the CFD grid information and apply it to a PFX emitter with motion simulated initially via CFD math. The biggest issue with that wasn't really getting it across but how to determine things from the CFD volume and translate it to inputs like particle age, temperature, size etc. That proved very difficult.

Any way I am glad to see everyone excited and using T4D and I wish them all the best and I'm saving up to pick up a copy myself as I find myself pushing the limits of dynamite well beyond its designs and its really showing its faults so it needs to be replaced for me by T4D while I sort out what I want to do with Bakudan in the end.

prometheus
06-03-2010, 02:09 AM
Indeed, our actual goal for Bakudan was to completely replace hypervoxels with perhaps maybe the exception of being used for surface volumes.
.

You know hypervoxels arenīt that bad, it just needs some new features implemented me thinks, and what I would like to se foremost, is a distance between particle parameter in all possible channels, after that I would like to see a blending mode ala metaball style for the volume mode, and then
the fire shader concept from dynamite would be sweet if that could be extracted out and implemented in hypervoxels instead, but regarding hypertextures I would prefer them as is in hypervoxels.

The texturing procedurals wasnīt satisfactory with dynamite.
then of course hypervoxels sprites are nice, but could also be improved
with a deeper range of slices, or volumetric faking and lightray faking.

the actual hypertexture effect would be nice to improve on too, like a possibility to control the hypertexture effect over time, with time scaling and freezing.

In my nebula experiments...
http://www.newtek.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=55118&d=1203911813
I was using some hypertexture effects to give distortions and undulations to the nebulas, but if that were to be rendered for an animated scene, it would be flickering and destroyed since you cant freeze billowing hypertexture effect.

Edit...Actually the coolest nebulas might be a topic for a fluid engine, wich could be time scaled to a freezing point, and extracted to be used as a static background cloud nebula.
I would love to see a type of spectrum gas shader for different gaseous materials.
Michael

moussepipi2000
06-09-2010, 11:05 PM
the problem in bakudan is that the beta is late (normally end of march) and future client lost confidence in the development.
how can we trust in fluid dynamics dev after dynamite ?

djlithium
06-09-2010, 11:36 PM
the problem in bakudan is that the beta is late (normally end of march) and future client lost confidence in the development.
how can we trust in fluid dynamics dev after dynamite ?

I don't know if you have been keeping up on recent events, but the project is effectively canceled because of the emergence of T4D plus other issues with the developer.

What else do you want me to say?

moussepipi2000
06-10-2010, 01:10 AM
sorry i didnt know it was CANCELED. spline god say bakudan still in dev. Hrgiger say its complicated.

i got email for the beta lunch, but not for the development stopping.

thx you for clear reply. T4d guy will be glad!

djlithium
06-10-2010, 02:34 AM
Well for future reference it might help if you got your information off of the source website instead of here. That might reduce the confusion.

The forums at www.battlestarvfx.com in the bakudan area state the reasons for the project being put off to the side for now.