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cbreton49
05-20-2010, 11:12 AM
I am searching for a way to show that pilots are looking through glass. I made a Lancair that will collide with a Cessna and the Lancair has a glass dome canopy. I haven't yet been able to give that clear vision of them looking through glass.
Can anyone give me suggestions or a tutorial somewhere?
Thanks so much...
cbreton49

Nangleator
05-20-2010, 11:29 AM
Reflections on the inside of the glass... but blur it a bit.

Add a VERY subtle bump to help show off refraction of the canopy. A custom texture would be best for that.

Add some 'dirt' to the transparency channel. Subtle here, too.

Nangleator
05-20-2010, 11:31 AM
Backdrop fog to hide that hard horizon, too.

JamesCurtis
05-20-2010, 11:31 AM
Having slight reflections in the curved canopy glass from the surrounding landscape and the pilots would help to pull it off. Use some of the footage of the pilots for the reflections.

Nangleator
05-20-2010, 11:38 AM
Hate to think you're rendering this for a court case. It looks about a second from tragedy.

cbreton49
05-20-2010, 12:06 PM
it is for a court case and it is fatal for four.

"Backdrop fog to hide that hard horizon, too."
1. the ground fog doesn't show through the glass (transparency)
i've never been able to do this. (and there is a distance fog)

2. should the polies for the canopy be facing inward or out or does it matter
i have them double sided now.

3. i have reflections at 15% but it really doesn't show up
"Having slight reflections in the curved canopy glass from the surrounding landscape and the pilots would help to pull it off. Use some of the footage of the pilots for the reflections."
4. how is that done using the landscape and pilots?

"Reflections on the inside of the glass... but blur it a bit."
5. where is the blur as i have the reflections on 15% maybe that's not enough?

"Add a VERY subtle bump to help show off refraction of the canopy. A custom texture would be best for that."
6. i did and nothing shows, i used ripples and checker for test and nothing, i could be doing something all wrong.

"Add some 'dirt' to the transparency channel. Subtle here, too. "
7. would that be a 'T'exture map, procedural - i tried and nothing...

maybe i need a step by step or more specific instructions. sorry, it's the oldtimers that i have trobules with.
i will keep trying though. i am in v 9.3 and on a mac if that makes any diff.
cbreton49

Nangleator
05-20-2010, 12:27 PM
"Backdrop fog to hide that hard horizon, too."
1. the ground fog doesn't show through the glass (transparency)
i've never been able to do this. (and there is a distance fog)

Sorry, I'll be more specific. In the "volumetrics and fog options" page, on the volumetrics tab, choose a fog type. Set the Max Distance out near the edge of your landscape object and choose the "Use Backdrop Color" button. Your landscape will blend into your background gradient. It will look better if your background gradient uses the same color for both "Sky Color" and "Ground Color."

2. should the polies for the canopy be facing inward or out or does it matter
i have them double sided now.

You only need inward facing ones. Ideally, the canopy would have some thickness, so you'd have inner and outer polys.

3. i have reflections at 15% but it really doesn't show up
"Having slight reflections in the curved canopy glass from the surrounding landscape and the pilots would help to pull it off. Use some of the footage of the pilots for the reflections."
4. how is that done using the landscape and pilots?

"Reflections on the inside of the glass... but blur it a bit."
5. where is the blur as i have the reflections on 15% maybe that's not enough?

15% sounds good. 15% blur is actually quite a lot. I don't think you should have more than 5% for this. The higher blur is probably hiding the fact that you're getting reflections at all!

For your purposes, I don't think you ought to try to develop texture reflections of actual pilots.


"Add a VERY subtle bump to help show off refraction of the canopy. A custom texture would be best for that."
6. i did and nothing shows, i used ripples and checker for test and nothing, i could be doing something all wrong.

This sounds like it could be a matter of the polys facing the wrong way. Or you don't have "Trace Reflections" and "Trace Refractions" selected on the render tab?


"Add some 'dirt' to the transparency channel. Subtle here, too. "
7. would that be a 'T'exture map, procedural - i tried and nothing...

Not really necessary, if the other effects are working for you. You change too many things and all of a sudden your picture looks terrible and you don't know why... Change one thing at a time.

cbreton49
05-20-2010, 01:41 PM
Nangleater,
Maybe with this pic you can see my prefs and see what i should change, i am getting some reflection of the right pilots head i think but it's still is just not what i want.
and the distant fog is not blending like it should, i think
thanks
cbreton49

cbreton49
05-20-2010, 01:58 PM
p.s. i haven't given up yet i think i'm getting the fog in better too
cbreton49

Nangleator
05-20-2010, 02:04 PM
Okay, I can see that Trace Refraction isn't on. Probably it's not crucial, but it could help sell the canopy material a little better.

I worked up a surface. You'll find a "Load" button in the Surface Editor to load this. Tweak the Index of Refraction and the values in the Transparency texture.

Nangleator
05-20-2010, 02:06 PM
I gave up on reflection blur. It just wasn't working.

You should also google for sky domes. There are some really, really good images out there you can spherically map to a huge dome over your scene. Works really well for animations.

cbreton49
05-20-2010, 02:09 PM
wow looks like it might need a tad tweek or three, what do you suggest, i loaded your surface and this is the result.... nice
it sure is a lot closer to glass that's for sure....
cbreton49

p.s. i see you are in Mass, I was born and raised in Andover....


I've used sky domes before works well, but it was a clear sky so i used a gradiant.

Nangleator
05-20-2010, 02:33 PM
Heh. No wonder they couldn't see the other guy!

Okay, go into the transparency texture, and select the gradient. The first value is 100%, if I remember right. Lower it to 50% or so.

Next, set the Bump amount from 100% down to 30% and try again.

I actually live in Andover now. Small world. I'm a private pilot, too. I was in a similar situation once, where I arbitrarily decided to climb, then noticed a minute later 3 planes in formation flying right at my course, at my previous altitude, just like in the pictures...

cbreton49
05-20-2010, 03:00 PM
darn thought we were getting closer but didn't do much.
here's the object and last render if it will help. i been playing with the settings and haven't found the right one yet.... but getting closer.

there was a student pilot in the other plane learning instrument approach so he had one of those caps on and the instructor was in the right seat so neither one saw the Lancair as far as I can tell. but who knows, i hate these close calls, you tend to see it and it's usually too late.
sounds like you were lucky.

yes, small world, lived on Topping Rd. in the Shawsheen area, graduated from AHS and went to NECCO - family of 10 not one of us left back there. strange how lifes' travels take you places...

clbreton49

cbreton49
05-21-2010, 03:03 PM
well i got closer but not at my happy place. here's some examples of what i've come up with. i just have to find a happy medium and things will be good.
cbreton49

Hieron
05-23-2010, 07:02 AM
If you could export more of the scene I'd be glad to help but atm it is just the canopy and it takes time to fill in the blanks before a surface can be tested nicely.

The other plane or any animation is not needed really. (just strip out those and Package Scene) if you are allowed and interested to share it.

Some pointers:
-Your canopy model is realllly low poly. That will smooth out bad, leading to those weird reflections as well.
-Bump and transparancy noise seemed way to big to me, and you'd probably be better of just using blurred reflections.

UnCommonGrafx
05-23-2010, 07:15 AM
well i got closer but not at my happy place. here's some examples of what i've come up with. i just have to find a happy medium and things will be good.
cbreton49

Turn your texture down, maybe to 1-5, and it should look a lot better.
Otherwise, go out to your car or a local bus, take a pic of the view out the window and see what you really are trying to emulate. Or something very similar.

cbreton49
09-14-2010, 10:10 AM
Thanks all, I think I finally got what I was looking for and this worked, so
just wanted to give a last post.
cbreton49

gerry_g
09-14-2010, 11:50 AM
If someone else has said it I apologise but can't see it being mentioned from a quick scan but a gradient in the reflection channel set to incidence will knock out most of your problem with reflections and limit them to the more acute edge areas of the glass. And why are you trying to add a texture to glass to blur it rather than use Reflection Blurring under the Environment tab of the Surface Editor ?