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clagman
05-17-2010, 08:33 PM
Much better on the Eco front. Painting that follows environment rules...nice. Renders faster too. It does have global gamma control but you still have to use the gamma node or adjust colors manually. Displacement is much faster and doesn't use up nearly as much memory. The diagnosis buffer is super. I'm digging the unlimited surface painting too.

It's also full of bugs haha! So long as you stick to procedural or standard terrains with painted or manual populated ecos it's very good. Booleans on terrains work well but the new feature zone extraction seems worthless. Round trip LW scene works the same. Still no heightfield export for process terrains. So mixed bag.

Soth
10-02-2010, 03:53 AM
I just had another go with ple version and even bought myself tutorial lw<>xstream but nothing (sic!) seems to be working, I cannot even render very short animation with terrain one tree and couple of lightwave objects.

And that is not everything, I got xstream plug-in added to terrain object 21 times (tried to cut it down - in desperate fight with crashing renderer, did not helped at all, well maybe it should be that way), with the plug-in LightWave is very sluggish, I cannot set up proper resolution (I am trying within 800x600 limit, just different proportions but VUE is changing it back to settings that it likes more), sometimes all lw objects turn into 100% black holes during rendering (and you need to go back to old version of the scene)...

I have tried to report the crash but apparently PLE is not the latest official version so I cannot do that... :(

Did you managed to get anything from this program? I am kinda in doubt that is even possible. :)

EDIT: The bottom line is that even very simple scene is crashing all the time, sometimes during editing and almost always when rendering.

clagman
10-02-2010, 08:25 AM
Something is hosed on your system as I don't have that situation, sounds pretty bad though. So far there are only two bugs that I can report, Vue cameras have a bad habit of adding keyframes when you modify something in vue (so we use only LW cameras and the vuesynch), and if you use the load items from scene while Vue is active it completely screwes up the scene.

So I'd say try leaving the Vue camera alone, check alpha channels after render to make sure the objects are actually being rendered, try the vue command "open scene in standalone" to see if it's a problem with the Vue renderer or just the LW interface. If all else fails re-install. So far I've installed Vue countless times on many machines here but haven't seen those problems yet so maybe the PLE just sucks worse than the full version haha!

Anyway post anything you find out...

Soth
10-02-2010, 08:37 AM
Hi,
Thank you for quick reply. I have tried to install on other machine but is very 'crashy' too.

What system are you on and what LightWave version are you using? I am on Windows 64, 9.6/HC both 64 bit, both crashing a lot when rendering often.

I have tried to load all my scenes to vue only and they are render fine (if you can call scene w/o most of the objects fine :) ) - Vue is not crashing at all.

I have rendered many different scenes with different on two computers and get really nowhere, it is crashing all the time with all settings that I have tried... I do really wonder what is it...

clagman
10-02-2010, 09:27 AM
Using on 8 systems (6 are render only though). All Vista 64 with LW9.6; multiple builds of LWHC and Core. The workstations are 5490 dual quad 16GB RAM and the blades are same but dual 5580 w/ 12GB. Using latest build of 8.5.

Now I will say that it does crash occasionally but not very often. I'll also say that because LW is sooooo awful when it comes to rendering volumetric that rendering with xstream can be pretty painful.

Let's see... You could try using the fixed hardware setting for the UI (in the standalone), also reduce the number of proxies for ecosystems, basically just start turning things off one by one until you find the problem. Definitely disable the interactive input field.

Aside from that I've heard other people say they had trouble with the PLE.

Soth
10-02-2010, 10:58 AM
Aside from that I've heard other people say they had trouble with the PLE.

So I need to buy to work out if it will work here or not? Hmm.

Well is not Video card settings, I have 2 decent systems here... I will try vista compatibility mode and then laptop... then I am out of options.

Thank you for your help, I will keep you updated. ;)

EDIT: What is your preferred option to keep Vue data? LWO scene/separately? (but I have checked both anyway). It is so bad cos I feel like I just wasted 20 hours of my life. :O

clagman
10-02-2010, 11:08 AM
Heh buy to test seems like a poor option doesn't it. I usually just do integrated mode. I wish I could help more...

Soth
10-02-2010, 11:08 AM
When I open last saved scene I never get same camera resolution that I was working last time.

How they can even give it to people to download? I like all those features so much, I could buy it. But it does not work on such many levels I think after purchase I would just go mental. :D

clagman
10-02-2010, 11:29 AM
I promise I haven't seen that one. I do get odd camera movements and lost focal/zoom settings (due to added keyframes) that can ruin animation but using just the LW native cameras all that goes away.

Soth
10-02-2010, 12:56 PM
(...) but using just the LW native cameras all that goes away.

Mate, you are my hero! And Vue shall give me 24 chargeable hour discount on their product.

Anyway I just have rendered 35 frames w/o single crash, previous record: two.


Thank you again! Its awesome birthday present and I will ask my wife will buy me Vue on Monday (student version for now). :thumbsup:

PS If I would read more carefully your previous emails I could try it this morning. ;P

clagman
10-02-2010, 01:31 PM
No problem at all. I glean so much from the community it's good that I can add what little I can. Will you be getting v9 with this purchase? If it doesn't come with the update I would wait a bit since 9 is just about to be released.

Oh happy bday by the way.

Soth
10-02-2010, 01:53 PM
somehow it does not work any more, I truly hate computers ;)

anyway I have a clue what is wrong, I should sort it out soon... thank you for help again! :D

Soth
10-03-2010, 09:31 AM
I wonder if you will be around on Sunday. :)

Do you know if there is any way to check what version of the plug-in I am using? I can compare to yours. Looks like Vue plug is messing not only wit it own camera but changing the setting and animation of other camera that I have in my scene... is that possible, did it ever happened to you?

clagman
10-03-2010, 03:00 PM
I'm always here, joys of mobile devices ;) I can't remember how to check the build number right off hand.

Never had Vue affect native LW cameras in any way and never change resolution on the main_camera just the focal/zoom or position when you edit something via a Vue menu.

Try this, uncheck the "switch to Vue camera" checkbox in the options menu. It could have something to do with your settings. Use a user defined preset rather than the built in ones and set it to use Vue settings rather than the native renderer quality.

It probably won't make any difference since I never had these types of weird troubles (or heard of anybody else for that matter). Perhaps there is a plugin that is clashing with Vue?

Soth
10-05-2010, 02:15 AM
Hi,
Thank you for all help. I have managed to install and work in Vue on second computer - cos Vue is still crashing (just not so often) your scene helped me a lot to find out that second computer is OK.

I will reinstall system on first one to see if is some system function/other program or hardware - for now I am stuck on Q6600 (instead of dual X5650 :( ) but at least I can learn.

I will hold my purchase until I will get it to work on fast computer.

Thank you again, you helped a lot. :)

clagman
10-05-2010, 09:29 AM
No prob.

Soth
10-09-2010, 05:39 PM
I have reinstalled the system and looks like Vue xStream does not love 24 threads when rendering inside LightWave. Your scene was rendering OK for 24+ hours on Q6600 when it did not for longer than 5 minutes on 2x X5650 - new Windows install, NOTHING else is crashing.

I study standalone for now but it is not very stable too. It is not too bad but way behind LW and I was thinking before that lwis not very stable program (comparing to Photoshop for example).

clagman
10-09-2010, 06:33 PM
Well the truth is I do a hell of a lot more rendering in the standalone anyway (its just sooooo much faster than rendering in LW) and composite. I'm surprised that it won't handle more than 16 threads. Maybe try setting to auto instead of 24.

wolfiboy
10-11-2010, 06:51 AM
I experienced the same problems as Soth with black LW-objects. I found out that is has to do with the loaded atmospheres of Vue. Principally the light-influence is as follows: Vue-Light renders Vue- AND LW-objects. LW-light ONLY renders LW-objects. AND: If you want to use predefined Vue-atmospheres (i.e. if you load an atmosphere) you need to activate radiosity and volumentric radiosity in the LW-render-globals or work with a default-atmosphere and adjust the light.
The problem with Vue-atmosphere and animation is: Only the standard lighting model works well. With (the more beautiful) global illumination and global radiosity you will get flickering and strange texure effects. But they work well for stills.
So for light-adjustments I use the Vue-light-options (atmosphere editor) and turn the LW-light to zero.

As clagman mentioned: I never animate LW-cameras! And I don't animate the vue-camera in LW. For me I came to the conclusion that it saves time and nerves to first build up the vue-scene in Vue-standalone and animate the vue-camera there. Maybe I import some LW-models if I need a clue for the camera-animation, and delete them after the keyframes are ready. Then I open the Vue-scene in LW and add my LW-objects. Vue imports the vue-camera-keyframes automatically. But that's just me, I don't know if there's another way. I tried other ways but after many frustrating hours I gave up.
But as clagman said: Be aware that some keyframes could be wrong! With most of them it works fine, but I always had at least one that somehow break out (e.g. the y-rotation changed only for one frame). As I render to RGB first I can re-render the wrong frame after I used LW-graph editor to correct the movement of the vue-camera (here it works to animate the vue-camera in LW - maybe only for slight movements?)

What I also noticed: Don't save a scene with imbedded vue-stuff when you activated FiberX! Vue will crash the next time you open that scene! Workaround: Save the FiberX-settings and load them each time you render the scene and activate FiberX. But don't save the scene! You need to repeat the procedure when you stop rendering and load the scene again.
Well, I think all other dynamics can't be saved when you work with Vue! E.g. It is not possible to save an already calculated cloth-dynamics! I didn't find a solution for that as to recalculate it again, when I open the scene again. And if you want to use some hard-body-dynamics (such as falling and bouncing objects) you need to use nulls in order to generate keyframes and parent the needed objects to them.

Well, so far my experiences and I hope it will help.
Vue is a nice tool, but it has it's own head.


Cheers, wolfiboy

clagman
10-11-2010, 10:30 AM
Agreed but the "sun-light" light should still illuminate both Vue and LW. Radiosity can be a problem but I have a good method for getting around using volumetric radiosity...selling my trade secrets here ;)

Use sky light, or whatever you like for textured environment. Hide this from the output by using a black background in the composite tab, blammo radiosity that more or less matches the Vue environment without rendering the sky. Then you just render the sky and background in Vue. Or you can render a 360 degree single frame from Vue to use as a background in LW or even use that EXR/HDR image to illuminate the scene, whatevah woiks.