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VonBon
04-26-2010, 08:38 AM
Would like to let everyone know that I am selling
what i hope to be useful, MeshMan_v1.0.

I setup a page for it here.
http://www.opaqueproductions.com/

OnlineRender
04-26-2010, 10:28 AM
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO sexy your [email protected] LW look good :)

Nicolas Jordan
04-26-2010, 10:37 AM
This should also be posted in the 3rd party section if it's not already. Looks interesting.

VonBon
04-26-2010, 12:09 PM
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO sexy your [email protected] LW look good :)

:lol:
you so crazy.

oliversimonnet
04-26-2010, 12:09 PM
hello.
dos it come rigged?

oliversimonnet
04-26-2010, 12:11 PM
hello.
dos it come rigged?

o yes it does

sorry! :S

VonBon
04-27-2010, 08:49 AM
(posted this in the 3rd Party Section)

This came about from trying to simply or make quicker the
character animation and modeling process.

I was thinking about the MAX biped dude.
So I made my own "reusable rig and mesh" instead of
having to start from scratch each time.

if you have any questions or suggestions on how it can be better
let me know.

I know the body isn't muscular and defined because it is also designed
for Zbrush as well. I figured it would be easy to let people download
different displacement maps to change the design of the character.


Also i couldn't help but notice the poll MentalFish posted for the plugin.
so i'll ask the same question (since i don't know how to make a poll)

how much is somthing like this is worth, or better yet is somthing like
MeshMan even needed or desired?

VonBon
04-29-2010, 10:22 AM
Making a few videos to show how MeshMan performs.
This is the first one, will be posting others.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2TyfviGAGw

if there is somthing specific you want to see let me know.

VonBon
04-29-2010, 11:50 AM
Forearm/Wrist Mechanics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1HbH9Ig_eQ

VonBon
04-29-2010, 02:08 PM
Back bone mechanics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iokzQ0BPN2U

RebelHill
04-29-2010, 03:51 PM
I hate to drop a downer on this, but...

For this to be really useful in the way its intended to be, your deforms need a good deal of work, especially in the shoulders and wrists, and you need to show it being pushed into some really extreme poses to make sure that the deforms hold up everywhere.

Second thing has gotta be the price... Its basically the same as my rigging tuts, which include a generic, plain human rigged mesh much like this one.

Sorry and all.

OnlineRender
04-29-2010, 04:53 PM
I hate to drop a downer on this, but...

For this to be really useful in the way its intended to be, your deforms need a good deal of work, especially in the shoulders and wrists, and you need to show it being pushed into some really extreme poses to make sure that the deforms hold up everywhere.

Second thing has gotta be the price... Its basically the same as my rigging tuts, which include a generic, plain human rigged mesh much like this one.

Sorry and all.

Excellent Rigg'in WARs ! , either way you both have a product that helps , maybe you should tag team ?

VonBon
04-29-2010, 06:16 PM
i know that its breakable.

My intent was to create a General Deformation rig that can also be used
to bolt on control with out having to have two rigs in one. I wanted to
have a more animator freindly rig thats easy to jump into and if you need
or want more control you can add it on.

It gives good deformations to the point of the extreme position, in which
case you can create a morph instead of a joint morph, since it want stay
in a extreme position. In most cases people want need extreme poses.
but if you do just create a morph. also its designed for human motion.

The mesh is also designed to work well with Zbrush or 3Dcoat. I was
thinking that this way it would be easier to get quick variations of a
character, and not have to worry about other underlying things like
cyclist, expressions, etc. being connected to the deformation of my mesh.

lol, and to be honest MeshMan is designed alot better and deforms better
than your characters, though your rigging skills are top notch.

thats why i purchased your Tuts.

Another Goal was to create a base charcter that people could build other
characters from, and know that its ready to animate.
and thats what MeshMan is.

Me personally i want to have fun animating, not all these
flips and switches to turn off. So the control rig is based off my
preferences so everything isn't as you would set it up.

I don't need that much control ATM, but its setup so when i do i can
add it on, like you showed me. :D

I'll say again yea the deformations could be better in some areas of
extreme poses but, just do a morph when in that extreme position.

I "tried" to keep it simplified but expansive at the same time if need be.

VonBon
04-29-2010, 06:20 PM
Excellent Rigg'in WARs ! , either way you both have a product that helps , maybe you should tag team ?

:lol:I did ask him for help. ;D

sampei
04-29-2010, 06:51 PM
quick question regarding the mesh being designed to work well for ZBrush, how is this?

OnlineRender
04-29-2010, 06:55 PM
low poly ! [email protected] [email protected] ect, if you keep the mesh [email protected] , you should be @ble to build on the [email protected] & yes my @ key is gimped @[email protected] :P

VonBon
04-29-2010, 07:05 PM
Its a low poly subdivision mesh. The mesh is all quads with the exception
of 44 triangles, one in each ear and 21 in each hand in the knuckle area.

I used them so that the mesh wouldn't be overly dense
instead of keeping the quad poly flow just for the sake of having all quads.

also its not a muscularly detailed mesh so i was thinking that it should be
easier to conform to the SubD lvl 1 from Zbrush in stead of the MT.

Thats "my" theory of why.

sampei
04-29-2010, 08:05 PM
I see, I was asking because I recently had a go at sculpting a mesh from LW and bringing it back. My experience was that in any case, relying too much on displacement to change the apperanace of the character will make him quite hard to pose (and therefore animate), or at least some errors are likely to occur. Like for example I had problems with the latissimus dorsi and triceps brachii clipping into one another (of course these are the closest groups), it was hard to control because the mesh has to be quite dense to get a good tranlastion of the sculpt and even layout struggles with too much geometry.
On the other hand I found that ZBrush doesn't like tris very much, it pinches on the "5 edge vertex" but obv. we can smooth it out by sculpting. I also tried and follow Steve Warner's advice to keep it all quads, but I can see how tris can slim down the count. But all that brought me back to my first point...which is that I personally wouldn't rely on displacement too much.
heck it's quite late and I haven't slept so maybe I aint making sense :D

VonBon
04-29-2010, 08:18 PM
Did you export the "SubD lvl 1" from Zbrush instead of exporting the MT.

When I go back to LW I use Conform to Bkgrnd instead of
Morph to Bkgrnd. Then you can export "SubD lvl 1" from Zbrush.

(morphToBkgrnd doesn't work because of the point order gets messed up)
Although i could be doing somthing wrong.

also i plan to use it for detailing but you can make variations of a character or characters.
Faces is a good way to use ZB or a Ripped body vs average body.

but if you plan to go from a regular sized guy to incredible hulk guy,
your gonna have to make adjustments.

sampei
04-29-2010, 08:27 PM
let's see...I think I tried both but the subD lvl 1 worked better when I displaced it, although the base mesh was completely washed out. It loses all its definition.
I tried exporting the MT and it didn't displace right...
Is conform to background a command in modeler which allows me to align the geometry from the obj i export from zbrush to my original lwo ? I have a gap in my memory, i seriously need sleep. But I'm looking forward to the reply on my next log on.

VonBon
04-29-2010, 08:38 PM
yep, its under modify/more.

it worked for me, although it seemed to give some artifacts
where the mesh didn't change in the hands
(could have been a graphics driver issue)
but when i subpatched it, it looked fine.

VonBon
04-29-2010, 09:08 PM
I would also like to add that the MeshMan setup is fast and responsive.
in the vidoes i posted he was at SubD lvl 3.

but for people with slower computers you can animate it at
lvl 1 or 0. He is less than 3500 polys at lvl 0.

RebelHill
04-30-2010, 03:02 AM
Well, given the way the shoulders and wrists are clearly collaping in your vids, Id have to disagree on the deformation thing.

But my main point was that this isnt a hundred dollar product... not even close... especially when you consider that myself, and others, give away single, rigged characters for free. You could load the zulu character from my sig into ZB and sculpt away quite happily if you wanted to... same thing.

OnlineRender
04-30-2010, 04:55 AM
now now ! play nice ! ..... :D

Sampei : I had problems getting the sub patch level in Zb to import into LW (7.5) using tb-normal pluggin , I needed a sub level of 3 just to get the detail to show , which is counter productive and made the poly count a stupid amount to animate and ended up making the project *gash* .........

sampei
04-30-2010, 07:36 AM
yes I also read on Steve Warner's guide that versions previous to LW v9 do not support Zbrush all that well. Hence the plug-ins!
For animation I personally would stick to low poly characters, but then I'm not really an animator so what do I know?
I'll have to try that conform to BG thing though.

VonBon
04-30-2010, 11:27 AM
[QUOTE=RebelHill;1013931]Well, given the way the shoulders and wrists are clearly collaping in your vids, Id have to disagree on the deformation thing.QUOTE]

could i see a video of Janets shoulder and wrist deformations.

I loader her up but its slow to work with, but im sure thats because
you have so much going on underneath. I do have a decent machine.
quad_2.4ghz, 8gig, win7 64bit.

does it perform this way on your computer.

VonBon
04-30-2010, 11:36 AM
actually, i have her scene open now and it seems to be moving
alot faster. Maybe it was loading something, I don't know.
but it is moving faster.

still want to see those videos though.

VonBon
05-03-2010, 01:43 PM
Or.... you could just say that YOUR stuff was EXTREMELY inexpensive and worth $400 and MeshMan is priced correctly. :)

OOOooooo, :D

I think you hit it on the head in my opinion.
Probably would be good to come out with a series.

Although I didn't just come up with this number out of the blue.
i looked on turbosquid and determined what i thought was fair.
(i wonder how good some of those rigs/deformations actually work.)

So, how much is it going to cost me to get you "RebelHill"
to do the arms for me in the "correct manner".

Revanto
05-03-2010, 06:30 PM
Although I didn't just come up with this number out of the blue.
i looked on turbosquid and determined what i thought was fair.
(i wonder how good some of those rigs/deformations actually work.)


Actually, just because something it priced highly on Turbosquid, doesn't mean it actually sells well or even at all. It depends on the product and how good the product is. Even then, the price should be considered reasonable.

The thing is that you have to be realistic about what you have and what people want and scale the price appropriately. It's true what others have said in regards to pre-rigged characters given away for free and how they may be just as good as your product.

It's just something to consider.

Cheers,
Revanto :p