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View Full Version : So, what's up with Bakudan? Tell us about it...



UnCommonGrafx
04-23-2010, 04:53 AM
So, the other tool is out. Here's a space for examples and conversation about this one.
Since I've not been following it, I would like to know, and see, as many examples as you might have. It would be most appreciated, particularly, given the price point differences as have been stated. (180 vs 400)

So, what gives?

bjornkn
04-23-2010, 04:56 AM
So what/where is Bakudan then?
Never heard of it before.

Greenlaw
04-23-2010, 05:43 AM
Go here: http://www.battlestarvfx.com/ and scroll to the bottom for info. Also, go here: http://www.battlestarvfx.com/forums/

Bakudan is basically a replacement for Dynamite Pro, but faster, more accurate, more features, etc. Also, the price is very nice. It's still in beta, but sounds promising.

stevecullum
04-23-2010, 11:13 AM
From the test renders on Kat's forum site, the examples look very noisy. Presumably that's temporary though. Its a shame Bakudan isn't further along, because it would be nice to make some proper comparisons. The price is very promising, but there again Turbulance 4D is engineered by Germans and 're-assuringly expensive'

Kat, any projection when the masses might get to test Bakudan or at least see some animated examples?

hrgiger
04-23-2010, 11:57 AM
I saw a render of smoke on the forum and that's about it. Bakudan is cheaper then TFD but right now it's only being targeted for Lightwave 9. TFD is being written for CORE and being offered for Lightwave 9 users for backwards compatability.

stevecullum
04-23-2010, 12:04 PM
Bakudan is cheaper then TFD but right now it's only being targeted for Lightwave 9. TFD is being written for CORE and being offered for Lightwave 9 users for backwards compatability.

That's a good point. From a business point of view, it makes sense to offer support for CORE, even if its not liked by everyone. There will still be thousands of people who do like CORE, both exsiting users and people migrating from other apps.

hrgiger
04-23-2010, 12:32 PM
Well, to be fair to Kelly, he did say that they would consider a CORE port for Bakudan if it was warranted.

wsantiago
04-23-2010, 12:49 PM
Bakudan is cheaper then TFD but right now it's only being targeted for Lightwave 9. TFD is being written for CORE and being offered for Lightwave 9 users for backwards compatability.

So what. CORE V1 won't be ready for atleast another year and even then there won't be any animation until maybe V2 whenever that's released.

UnCommonGrafx
04-23-2010, 12:52 PM
Can't say I've seen your name in the Core section...

To that end, I'd make the sucker bet against your opinion.

Chuck
04-23-2010, 12:57 PM
So what. CORE V1 won't be ready for atleast another year and even then there won't be any animation until maybe V2 whenever that's released.

I'm sure that CORE 1.0 will be ready much sooner than that (but, yes, it will take as long as it takes to get it right), and it has basic keyframe animation now, and also the first elements of dynamic simulation animation via Bullet, and those are being improved and extended with each new build.

walfridson
04-23-2010, 01:07 PM
So what. CORE V1 won't be ready for atleast another year and even then there won't be any animation until maybe V2 whenever that's released.
Source?

stevecullum
04-23-2010, 02:36 PM
So what. CORE V1 won't be ready for atleast another year and even then there won't be any animation until maybe V2 whenever that's released.

Bullet Dynamics + Fluid Sim - perfect partners I would say, and we shall have that very soon!

geothefaust
04-23-2010, 02:44 PM
Source?

Pay no mind to him. He spouts opinion as fact. :screwy:

WCameron
04-23-2010, 02:49 PM
Am I miss-remembering or didnt Kelly say that they decided to ditch Dynamite compatability, and because of that they were reformulating some things and that was
part of the delay for a beta version for us to play with?

- Will.

monovich
04-23-2010, 02:54 PM
bakudan > pim viewer?

walfridson
04-23-2010, 02:57 PM
bakudan > pim viewer?

not even close :)

too bad though :D

djlithium
04-23-2010, 03:48 PM
Ok just to clear some things up.

1. Bakudan doesn't require dynamite to run. It was going to however support rendering for Dynamite scenes. We have since abandoned that to focus more on our own complete replacement for it. And when I mean replacement i really mean replacement. Full CFD, Full particle support with GPU (eventually) support.

2. We are taking the development slow to ensure we get this right. Yes its taking longer than I would like, but its better to not f-it up rather than put something out that sucks.

3. Please stop speculating about what Bakudan is or isn't or whatever. As for the 'noise' in the images we showed, those are from the example renderer (a poor hack of PMRMT), not ours, however our solver generated the data used to create those images. When we have it all in LW and it's all kat test and my paw gives it a stamp of approval, then and only then will it go into the closed beta group. Then after a good "beat the hell out of this product" testing period and we make adjustments for feature request, bugs and improvements will it see the light of day publicly where you can get your hands on it and play with it.

4. CORE is not the end all be all of LW ok? Get that through your heads. The here and now is LW 9.6 (which will be the minimum needed LW for Bakudan use). Even if we take another 6 months before Bakudan releases, its still going to be Lightwave classic for the time being. CORE is not an application in any state of any kind at this time to be considered for production use, and that is just a fact of reality. I feel it will be that way for some time, if however by some miracle it becomes usable for some purpose in a professional (ie there is money riding on it) manner then I will consider having Bakudan ported to CORE. And don't for one second think that its going to be weaker because its not a "core native app". Anyone who suggests that is a dolt. Look, much of Bakudan is about the FX part of what it does yes (and it's intended final specification will do more than Turbulence 4D), but it's even more so about how artists work - specifically lightwave artists. If anything it will be CORE that causes Bakudan to under perform simply because of UI, but I am not going to speculate any further on that because CORE is not in a state of stability on that front to make a fair judgment. And I am trying to be fair, but it seems once again that certain people are out to make a federal case against anything I do in this community so its really tough at times to not just want to walk and drop LW all together. I have more faith in LW than that of course, so that's not going to happen.

5. My motivations for having Bakudan built are still chrystal clear even with Turbulence4D now available-ish (its still beta, and its got its issues but its very cool and I have no problems with it being out there, if its for you, buy it you cheap-asses(not all of you are cheap asses, just being over the top here :) ) before another 3rd party dev disappears due to lack of sales!) -I need a specific tool that does very specific things, does them very well, works the way I work and looks great in terms of results with minimal hair pulling. It's that simple. It's going to make my life better because I can work less hard and get billable hours in instead of technical trouble shooting rounds as to why something isn't working.


Anyway, if you could do me a favor in the mean time, its this, please stop speculating about Bakudan. That's all I ask.

Cheers! :)

GraphXs
04-23-2010, 04:54 PM
Not sure If I will buy both of them, but hey like I said in another forum, both of them is still cheaper than one copy of fumeFX. If they can do the same but in LW, time to break out the CC. :)

Ernest
04-23-2010, 05:07 PM
Cheap-asses? How can you say that since Turbulence4D costs MORE? Now if we bought Bakudan then you could call us cheap-asses. ;)

He was not being confrontational. He was recommending that we buy the more expensive Turbulence now, instead of being cheap and waiting for his software, which he expects we will also want, even if we have T4D.

UnCommonGrafx
04-23-2010, 05:14 PM
Oh my... That is an interesting thought to ponder...
What's that old cliche, "when the shoe is on the other foot..."

And I am saying that totally for the point it is: your request is fair enough. Be fair to others as they go about their development efforts.


Why? You don't stop speculating (negatively) about CORE. :devil:

Chuck
04-23-2010, 05:16 PM
Per Kelly's wishes, please wait to take this discussion up again at a more productive time.