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jawset
04-19-2010, 02:53 PM
Hi there!

Turbulence Fluid Dynamics (TFD) is a gaseous fluid simulation system for effects like fire, smoke, explosions, dust, etc.
Although still under development, it already had opportunities to proof it's simulation quality, scalability and ease of use in several productions ranging from independent shorts, commercials, a TV sports event and a big movie production.

TFD is now available as a plug-in for Lightwave 3D v9.6 for Public Beta testing and Early Bird licensing.
A port for Lightwave with CORE technology is in it's early development stage and will follow as soon as possible.

You can download the plug-in here:
http://jawset.com/downloads.php
It's Windows 64Bit only for now. Mac OS and Win 32Bit versions will be available soon.

Here is a quick introduction video:
TFD for LW96 - Getting Started (http://download.jawset.de/TLW_Beta2p21_Getting_Started)

Please also check out the example projects and the manual for more details.

Your feedback is very much appreciated. So please do not hesitate to e-mail your questions, comments and suggestions to [email protected]

As a small road map, here are the major features to come with the next updates:
- fluid texturing
- fire as light-source
- GI smoke illumination (multiple scattering)
- volumetric motion blur

Early Bird licenses are available at a reduced price during the beta stage.
These are full licenses with no restrictions, valid for both v9.6 and CORE later on.
http://jawset.com/purchase.php

Enjoy!

--
Jascha Wetzel

jawset visual computing
http://jawset.com

m0184you
04-19-2010, 03:03 PM
Looks interesting.

Cageman
04-19-2010, 03:03 PM
This is just too cool to be true!!!

:)

JamesCurtis
04-19-2010, 03:10 PM
Great!! Installing 64bit version now. Can't wait for 32bit version too, as most of the time I'm using 32bit LW due to most of my plugs being 32bit.

MentalFish
04-19-2010, 03:13 PM
Schweet! :thumbsup:

Larry_g1s
04-19-2010, 03:31 PM
WOW! Definitely slick. Nice preview too.

wellsichris
04-19-2010, 03:31 PM
this looks great!! can't wait to try it.

Elmar Moelzer
04-19-2010, 03:42 PM
Good work!
Looks like a very useful plugin. I really like the Histogram control. I want something like that for VoluMedic as well.

OnlineRender
04-19-2010, 03:44 PM
1 million $'ers , GOD !

calilifestyle
04-19-2010, 03:51 PM
sweet

walfridson
04-19-2010, 03:52 PM
Awesome!!!

OnlineRender
04-19-2010, 03:54 PM
function curve editor GUI is SWEET ! "on video "

OnlineRender
04-19-2010, 03:55 PM
you just gave people a sweet reason to use LW !

pooby
04-19-2010, 04:06 PM
Well I never. I thought the days of this kind of thing coming out for LW classic were long gone.
How exciting.

JohnMarchant
04-19-2010, 04:09 PM
Thanks will give it a whirl in a couple of days, busy at the moment

zapper1998
04-19-2010, 04:16 PM
any way we could down load the video for playing later offline ????

Here is a quick introduction video:

Michael

stevecullum
04-19-2010, 04:32 PM
Neat plugin!

Made by Germmans too, so it will work correctly at release :D

Not sure if this is a limitation of the demo, but when I use raytrace shadows, I see banding.

Cageman
04-19-2010, 04:37 PM
Neat plugin!

Made by Germmans too, so it will work correctly at release :D

Not sure if this is a limitation of the demo, but when I use raytrace shadows, I see banding.

Fire off an email to the developer and poke him about this thread (if he isn't allready lurking of course).

:)

*Pete*
04-19-2010, 04:44 PM
wow!!!

damn...this is just too cool!!


how much will the final version cost, anyone know?

monovich
04-19-2010, 04:45 PM
this looks fantastic. bravo! it definitely fills a needed void.

The Dommo
04-19-2010, 04:56 PM
Great job!

jawset
04-19-2010, 05:28 PM
Thanks for the kind comments, everyone!


Not sure if this is a limitation of the demo, but when I use raytrace shadows, I see banding.

Definitely a bug. The only restriction in the demo is the render resolution.
If you could send me that project file, that would be great.

GraphXs
04-19-2010, 05:30 PM
Amazing! How is this different from the Bakudan? We will have 2 fluid plug-ins for LW! WOW!

H_Molla
04-19-2010, 05:32 PM
oooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh baby :-) :-o ;-) this is neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeat..

Cageman
04-19-2010, 05:33 PM
Amazing! How is this different from the Buduka? We will have 2 fluid plug-ins for LW! WOW!

How should we know the difference when Bakudan isn't avaliable?

Well... I think I just answered your question; TFD is avaliable, Bakudan is not.

:)

4dartist
04-19-2010, 05:35 PM
Holy.. Please keep going and don't forget us Mac users!!

stevecullum
04-19-2010, 05:39 PM
Bit of fudging in fusion can get rid of the banding for now. Pretty nice results...

Titus
04-19-2010, 05:40 PM
Amazing! How is this different from the Buduka? We will have 2 fluid plug-ins for LW! WOW!

Badukan is vaporware? :devil:

J/K.

luciano
04-19-2010, 05:43 PM
fantastic:D

COBRASoft
04-19-2010, 05:43 PM
Looks very promising. Thanks for this public beta.

Question though. The name contains 'fluid'... Please add liquids some day, Mr. Rid blew me away with his bloody elevator done in RF.

Wade
04-19-2010, 05:44 PM
Bit of fudging in fusion can get rid of the banding for now. Pretty nice results...

very nice!

down_in_black
04-19-2010, 05:47 PM
This looks great! Happy to see this in LW. :thumbsup:

Wade
04-19-2010, 05:57 PM
Please price it for the masses. :)

COBRASoft
04-19-2010, 05:58 PM
On the website stands early bird: € 299, after release € 399. Hope this answers the cost question.

geothefaust
04-19-2010, 05:58 PM
Hey, thanks for sharing this!


After installing, and then booting up LW, I am now getting an error:

"The program can't start because QtCore_x64_4.dll is missing from your computer. Try reinstalling the program to fix this problem."

Uninstalling/reinstalling to see if this fixes the issue...

Boris Goreta
04-19-2010, 06:01 PM
I love it ! Even the solver is multithreaded, it goes to 50% on a 16 thread machine. I'll definitely buy this. How long until the beta phase ends ?

What about FPrime support, that would be great, it can render hypervoxels so why noy Turbulence too. :)

UnCommonGrafx
04-19-2010, 06:04 PM
Is the dollar doing any better... such that that would be? Any one know a good site to use for such conversions? Or is any good enough...? Off to try...

geothefaust
04-19-2010, 06:04 PM
Ok, uninstalled and reinstalled to the default directory and it could now find the .dll file.


Note, don't install to a custom directory. :)

calilifestyle
04-19-2010, 06:11 PM
Is the dollar doing any better... such that that would be? Any one know a good site to use for such conversions? Or is any good enough...? Off to try...

http://www.xe.com/ucc/

it's like 400$

Matt
04-19-2010, 06:12 PM
Who said LW classic was dead! Shame on you!

Very cool, looks MUCH more straight forward than that other plugin who's name I've forgotten, the one that left it's users abandoned.

stevecullum
04-19-2010, 06:13 PM
Definitely a bug. The only restriction in the demo is the render resolution.
If you could send me that project file, that would be great.

Here ya go..

UnCommonGrafx
04-19-2010, 06:17 PM
Yeah, I found that. Yikes!
Or the other whose supporter touted the second coming... of more vapor...?

How apropos! hhaha, vapor-ware... get it... haha, lots of pun like that a comin'!

GraphXs
04-19-2010, 06:20 PM
Very Nice, ya how long is the beta for? Also can it support weight maps/part of the object to run the Dynamics/Fluids?

COBRASoft
04-19-2010, 06:21 PM
I hope I'm not braking any rules here, but LW HC 2009 seems to have problems with this plugin (or vice versa). I can't add the dynamic object since it's not available. The scene above (fire.rar) doesn't work either.

Cageman
04-19-2010, 06:47 PM
Bit of fudging in fusion can get rid of the banding for now. Pretty nice results...

That looks very nice! :)

hrgiger
04-19-2010, 07:23 PM
Well, it seems this one will be available for CORE and Badukan won't be so that makes up my mind on that. Nice to at least see this guy not desparaging CORE.

jasonwestmas
04-19-2010, 08:14 PM
Excellent! Fluid volumes are back in business for LW.

erikals
04-19-2010, 08:25 PM
from the Cinema4D forum,
Packages with support for liquid simulation will follow in a second release

for Lightwave too?

GraphXs
04-19-2010, 09:15 PM
Ok, uninstalled and reinstalled to the default directory and it could now find the .dll file.


Note, don't install to a custom directory. :)

I tried that and still got that error when I tried adding the .p. It wants to install it to C:\Program Files\NewTek\LightWave 3D 9, but my LW9.6 directory is C:\Program Files\NewTek\LightWave 3D 9.6.

I tried both and it didn't work. (on WinXP 64bit):help:

GraphXs
04-19-2010, 09:25 PM
got it! :)

djlithium
04-19-2010, 09:36 PM
Well, it seems this one will be available for CORE and Badukan won't be so that makes up my mind on that. Nice to at least see this guy not desparaging CORE.

I'm not going to bother putting time into developing a version of CORE until CORE has itself straightened out. It's better to focus on the hear and now app rather than the "squirley app" called CORE if it sorts itself out and starts playing like lightwave and less of a maya circle jerk app then yes, we will port it.

erikals
04-19-2010, 09:41 PM
ditto that, it's a bit early.
first things first.

geo_n
04-19-2010, 09:57 PM
its good to have bakudan some competition. maybe it will speed up the development of bakudan as well.
399 euro for a lw only plugin is a bit pricey imho. WIll that include core upgrade?
299euro seems right with current lw status.

djlithium
04-19-2010, 10:10 PM
its good to have bakudan some competition. maybe it will speed up the development of bakudan as well.
399 euro for a lw only plugin is a bit pricey imho. WIll that include core upgrade?
299euro seems right with current lw status.

I agree, its good to see competition, one solution might be better than another for certain situations.
However Bakudan is slated for 180.00USD, so we have that working in our favor.

geo_n
04-19-2010, 10:20 PM
I agree, its good to see competition, one solution might be better than another for certain situations.
However Bakudan is slated for 180.00USD, so we have that working in our favor.

I'm visiting bakudan forum everyday I'm too excited. Lol. A bit slow dev though from kiko.

moussepipi2000
04-19-2010, 10:23 PM
by the way, when are we gonna see a beta of bakudan? it was planned at end of february...

Greenlaw
04-20-2010, 12:15 AM
Turbulence looks fantastic!

And thanks for making a public beta available. Guess I know what I'll be doing tomorrow. :)

OnlineRender
04-20-2010, 01:02 AM
AE turb 2d looks good , ill play with that,when you guys go and blow your own smoke .....grrrrrrrr

why do i get the feeling cageman is making a tut ,as we speak ! ?

Soth
04-20-2010, 01:22 AM
wow, it looks awesome

i cannot register to the forum, after 7 approaches to read the code I finished with
You have exceeded the maximum number of registration attempts for this session. Please try again later.

;(

Cageman
04-20-2010, 02:07 AM
why do i get the feeling cageman is making a tut ,as we speak ! ?

LOL...

I actually don't have time for that, but I can share my little simple test I did yeasterday. 10 minutes for simulation (501 frames), peak rendertime at 2.2 s/frame.

Soth
04-20-2010, 02:28 AM
LOL...

I actually don't have time for that, but I can share my little simple test I did yeasterday. 10 minutes for simulation (501 frames), peak rendertime at 2.2 s/frame.

...great, im gonna play with the plug tonight ;)

PS Should the flames be inside and smoke outside, the simulation looks little bit inside-out. ;)

mav3rick
04-20-2010, 02:34 AM
nice hot doughnut :)

colkai
04-20-2010, 02:45 AM
Well $180 is closer to my budget than $399 but right now, I don't got $3.99 :p
Still, great to see LW9.6 development from 3rd parties alive and kicking, good for those of us who want to keep using it. :D

jawset
04-20-2010, 03:08 AM
I love it ! Even the solver is multithreaded, it goes to 50% on a 16 thread machine. I'll definitely buy this. How long until the beta phase ends ?

I can't tell for sure, yet. But there will be a reminder before the Early Bird offer expires.


What about FPrime support, that would be great, it can render hypervoxels so why noy Turbulence too. :)
I haven't tested with FPrime. It should work, though.


Also can it support weight maps/part of the object to run the Dynamics/Fluids?
The fluid engine can, but it's not hooked into LW, yet.


LW HC 2009 seems to have problems with this plugin (or vice versa)
Thanks, i'm on it.



from the Cinema4D forum,
Packages with support for liquid simulation will follow in a second release
for Lightwave too?
Yes. It's the same fluid engine with only a small wrapper to integrate into the 3D host applications. There may be only smaller differences regarding workflow and such, where the host applications differ.


399 euro for a lw only plugin is a bit pricey imho. WIll that include core upgrade?
299euro seems right with current lw status.
Yes, both prices do.

rdrdrd23
04-20-2010, 03:26 AM
absolutely stunning. Looks like a great tool,so kudos for bringing it to the community!
:thumbsup:

geo_n
04-20-2010, 04:24 AM
Yes, both prices do.

Ah so 399euro is a guaranteed core version upgrade when core is capable to do particles? That's great.
Hopefully this won't be another dynamite here today gone tomorrow.

OnlineRender
04-20-2010, 04:27 AM
LOL...

I actually don't have time for that, but I can share my little simple test I did yeasterday. 10 minutes for simulation (501 frames), peak rendertime at 2.2 s/frame.

Haha and here's one I prepared earlier ! meh knew it :D

archijam
04-20-2010, 04:33 AM
Looking fantastic!

Congrats! :)

geo_n
04-20-2010, 04:54 AM
Well $180 is closer to my budget than $399 but right now, I don't got $3.99 :p
Still, great to see LW9.6 development from 3rd parties alive and kicking, good for those of us who want to keep using it. :D

All this competition is good. Bakudan and turbulence for lw. So both trying to get customer base.
While in 3dmax fumefx finally will have some competition
http://chaosgroup.com/en/2/phoenix.html

hrgiger
04-20-2010, 04:57 AM
However Bakudan is slated for 180.00USD, so we have that working in our favor.

But will there be a CORE version?

EDIT: Nevermind, missed your response to my first post. And thanks for confiming my stance.

khan973
04-20-2010, 05:01 AM
Hi, it's a great begenning! Thanks for bringing that to Lightwave!!!
I was thinking about buying Max - FumeFX, so I'm happy!
I'll do a lot of tests to see where we can go with it! :)

Texture driven fluids will be awesome! I expect to have an animated images or texture on a plane and that it generates particles based on Black / White values. Also, weight maps, gradients...
I also expect the particles to take the textures color values.

Will we have Daemons like Realflow? Some proxy objects that can erase particles, attract them, make them spin?

Will it be compatible with Lightwave's wind? Will it have its own wind system?

It doesn't work with FPrime Yet.

The alpha channel doesn't show up correctly for now.

I'm going to test things and send results. Peace

HowardM
04-20-2010, 05:23 AM
feckin awesome!

fast and stable too from the few minutes i played with it.

is it possible to use textures, etc to make the voxels break up and look more detailed?

the anim of the smoke guy looked a lil stepped, will LW allow you to tweak substeps and get some nice detailed hires film quality renders?

hope so!

lookin forward to the development!

FINALLY ;)

HowardM
04-20-2010, 05:36 AM
I agree, its good to see competition, one solution might be better than another for certain situations.
However Bakudan is slated for 180.00USD, so we have that working in our favor.

where are examples and when will you have a beta to test?

jwiede
04-20-2010, 05:37 AM
Love TFD on C4D, can't wait to see the MacUB version for LW as well.

OlaHaldor
04-20-2010, 05:38 AM
Wow this is great news! Any thoughts about when the Mac version will be available ?

Dennik
04-20-2010, 06:44 AM
This is a fraction of a cost compared to FumeFX and hopefully it will have the same functionality! Looking forward to play with it later today.
I don't see why some people complain about a few hundred bucks. If you do that kind of FX work, the cost should be pocket change for you.

erikals
04-20-2010, 06:49 AM
where are examples and when will you have a beta to test?

with your background you should be able to beta test right now, as you're in the movies industries. Just contact Kat.
http://battlestarvfx.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11

a preview, early beta,
http://battlestarvfx.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=27

hrgiger
04-20-2010, 06:51 AM
Hmm, installed it into my LW9 directory but container is not showing up in my Items/add list. Example scenes work so I know it's installed.

erikals
04-20-2010, 06:53 AM
will it have "Wavelet Turbulence" later on?

http://www.cs.cornell.edu/~tedkim/WTURB/

prometheus
04-20-2010, 07:18 AM
sweet!!

I cant check it on my 32 bit system thou..

Ijust tested it briefly in aftereffects, a little slow thou, even after changing resolution.

would be nice with this kinda speed...click in the image and paint fluids
with the mouse in real time.

http://www.escapemotions.com/experiments/fluid_painter/index.html

fluid fire..
http://www.escapemotions.com/experiments/fluid_fire_3/index.html

field sandbox...
http://www.escapemotions.com/experiments/fields/index.html#top

flame painter..
http://www.escapemotions.com/experiments/flame/index.html#top

other cool stuff experiments here
http://www.escapemotions.com/experiments.html

Michael

GraphXs
04-20-2010, 07:34 AM
The slice display is super slow when trying to orbit around the screen? Any open-gl settings suggestions on how to speed it up? I have a QuadroFX 3450.

erikals
04-20-2010, 07:38 AM
note, Quadro doesn't help in LW, also often not in Maya.

erikals
04-20-2010, 07:44 AM
cool
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QppYEbPy9BM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNd5D_cMc7k&feature=related

robertoortiz
04-20-2010, 07:52 AM
Wow this is awesome!
Looking forward to playing with the mac version.
-R

GraphXs
04-20-2010, 07:57 AM
Ya I know Quadro FX is an overpriced card, I won mine at GDC 2years ago. :) Even so it supports the latest opengl drivers. (v2.0) The Slice preview is just slow when orbit/panning. Not sure why?

Oh and I did try it w/ FPrime, it only saw my donut.

jawset
04-20-2010, 08:01 AM
Will we have Daemons like Realflow? Some proxy objects that can erase particles, attract them, make them spin?
There are several ways to affect the fluid in such ways. They are part of what an Emitter can do - different name, same thing. And a few more ways of controlling the fluid are coming.


Will it be compatible with Lightwave's wind? Will it have its own wind system?
I'm looking into this - not sure yet if it can be integrated.


It doesn't work with FPrime Yet.
I will look into that.


is it possible to use textures, etc to make the voxels break up and look more detailed?
That's on the table for the next update.


will LW allow you to tweak substeps and get some nice detailed hires film quality renders?
Substeps and resolution are basic settings, yes.
The machine's memory is the only limit for the resolution. As a rule of thumb, depending on your settings, you need about 60-90 Bytes of memory per voxel to run the simulation. That is, 100 MegaVoxel require about 6-9 GB of memory.
100MV is a resolution that can be considered film quality. Depending on your scene, even 10MV could be. To put that into perspective: the example projects use around 0.2MV.


Any thoughts about when the Mac version will be available ?
I'm working on it, shouldn't be too long. Future updates will be released for both platforms at the same time. Just for this first LW release i didn't want to delay the Win64 version any more.


Hmm, installed it into my LW9 directory but container is not showing up in my Items/add list.
Sorry, forgot to mention that i put it there manually. Just bring up the Menu Layout editor in LW and drag it from the Plugins-folder to the menu.


will it have "Wavelet Turbulence" later on?
Very likely. Fluid Texturing techniques like this are on the table for the next update.


The slice display is super slow when trying to orbit around the screen?
At what (fluid container-)resolution are use using it? It still has to be optimized for hires containers (about >4MV). If it's slow even for the example projects, this is probably a bug.

jawset
04-20-2010, 08:09 AM
cool
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QppYEbPy9BM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNd5D_cMc7k&feature=related

Here are some recent examples done with TFD in C4D:
http://www.black-and-white-to-color.com/stuff/blastt4d.mov
http://www.black-and-white-to-color.com/stuff/flames.avi
Again, the same engine runs in the LW version. The artist has more examples and several tutorials on this site as well. Since these are mostly about the TFD parameters and the relevant differences of the 3D apps are minor, they could be useful for Lightwave artists as well.

erikals
04-20-2010, 08:12 AM
Great stuff! http://erikalstad.com/backup/anims.php_files/023.gif

mav3rick
04-20-2010, 09:02 AM
impressive jawset :) great stuff you show there...testing beta

geo_n
04-20-2010, 09:08 AM
Anyone test it on a network?

wildr3d
04-20-2010, 09:14 AM
Just made a test render, looks good so far.
Lot's of parameters to play with and good documentation!
Also love the visual feedback, Houdini has a similar method of previewing with slices.
Awesome work!

Matt
04-20-2010, 09:29 AM
This is great fun to play with! Awesome work Jascha!

One thing I have noticed, if you render with GI on, it seems to either completely stop, or it's just taking an insane amount of time, not sure which.

Does this work with GI?

Also, if you try and render with a Fluid Container in your scene but no Fluid Emitters, LightWave crashes, or you try and render with a Fluid Container and a Fluid Emitter attached to an object, but it has not yet been simulated, LightWave crashes (I think these are clearly when you have not run the simulation).

prometheus
04-20-2010, 10:04 AM
Ya I know Quadro FX is an overpriced card, I won mine at GDC 2years ago. :) Even so it supports the latest opengl drivers. (v2.0) The Slice preview is just slow when orbit/panning. Not sure why?

Oh and I did try it w/ FPrime, it only saw my donut.

Do you really think itīs slow because of the graphics card ?

isnīt this related to amount of memory in your card? or simply you have
to high settings in there?

Just curious since I myself are about to buy either quadro fx 3800 or gtx 285..yeah I know everyone keeps telling me, donīt buy the quadro, I still have to read through a whole lof of papers before I decide, but things
like this are very much why I would like to be enlightened over, if gtx 285 cards would run this type of stuff more smoothly than a quadro fx 3800.

did your card have any cuda available?

Michael

Wade
04-20-2010, 10:17 AM
I agree, its good to see competition, one solution might be better than another for certain situations.
However Bakudan is slated for 180.00USD, so we have that working in our favor.

@ 180.00 many like me will buy on implus - anything aproching 200+ and I have to have a really good reason to buy. under 149.00 and it is in the buy just for the fun of it - if I want realm.... :hey:

Chuck
04-20-2010, 10:49 AM
I hope I'm not braking any rules here, but LW HC 2009 seems to have problems with this plugin (or vice versa). I can't add the dynamic object since it's not available. The scene above (fire.rar) doesn't work either.

That's a discussion to reserve to the HardCORE forum sections, please.

Jascha has access to the HardCORE forums for any discussions related to LWHC and CORE, as well as to Open Beta for any discussions related to v9.6.1.

Nicolas Jordan
04-20-2010, 11:18 AM
I tried installing the beta version on Lightwave 9.6(64 bit). I ran the .exe and then I manually added the .p file to Lightwave. I went to customize button layout and nothing shows up except for the "enter license for turbulence" button. I added the button and then clicked on it and got an instant crash.

jawset
04-20-2010, 11:27 AM
I tried installing the beta version on Lightwave 9.6(64 bit). I ran the .exe and then I manually added the .p file to Lightwave. I went to customize button layout and nothing shows up except for the "enter license for turbulence" button. I added the button and then clicked on it and got an instant crash.

Did you install it to the Lightwave directory? There are some runtime DLLs that need to be in the right place, therefore the installer needs to be pointed to the location where LW is installed. Then, it shouldn't be necessary to add the plugin manually either.
Only the menu entry has to be added using LW's Menu Layout editor. You can find the Add Fluid Container command in the Plugins folder and drag it to the Items/Add/Dynamic Obj menu on the right pane of the layout editor.

Elmar Moelzer
04-20-2010, 11:55 AM
It doesn't work with FPrime Yet.

From what I know, it would only work in the final rendering of Fprime, not the previewer.

flashover
04-20-2010, 12:33 PM
FINALLY but now is very basic... :D

Phil
04-20-2010, 12:45 PM
Aborting a simulation seems to be generally impossible. I've had to resort to task manager to nuke Layout. Could the plugin be tweaked so that 'stop' works immediately?

jasonwestmas
04-20-2010, 12:48 PM
From what I know, it would only work in the final rendering of Fprime, not the previewer.

HVs work in the FP3.51 previewer, so some might assume it is possible to have volumetric plugins do the same.

Phil
04-20-2010, 01:04 PM
HVs work in the FP3.51 previewer, so some might assume it is possible to have volumetric plugins do the same.

Nope. HVs seem very much to be a special case and not subject to some of the SDK issues that are at the root of the problem with volumetrics and the previewer.

Nicolas Jordan
04-20-2010, 01:29 PM
Did you install it to the Lightwave directory? There are some runtime DLLs that need to be in the right place, therefore the installer needs to be pointed to the location where LW is installed. Then, it shouldn't be necessary to add the plugin manually either.
Only the menu entry has to be added using LW's Menu Layout editor. You can find the Add Fluid Container command in the Plugins folder and drag it to the Items/Add/Dynamic Obj menu on the right pane of the layout editor.

I installed it to the right directory, it just looks like I needed to add the "Add Fluid Container" command to the menu. It seems to be working fine now. Thanks for the help!

monovich
04-20-2010, 01:49 PM
HVs work in the FP3.51 previewer, so some might assume it is possible to have volumetric plugins do the same.

HVs were a workaround. My $$ says this will never work with FPrime.

Gregg "T.Rex"
04-20-2010, 02:00 PM
Great plugin!
In it's current state and from the upcoming roadmap feature list, looks like in par with FumeFX...

Ryste3d
04-20-2010, 05:51 PM
When can we purchase the first release

Greenlaw
04-20-2010, 06:16 PM
When can we purchase the first release

If you wish, you can purchase it now, and save about 25% of the final release price! :)

http://jawset.com/purchase.php

I tell ya, the Buy Now button is really tempting me. I've been looking over Ken's shoulder today, and even though this is beta software, we're giddy about how well Turbulence works already.

G.

Limbus
04-21-2010, 12:34 AM
This looks very slick. Now I just need a job where I could use it ;-)

I just tested it with the 3rd party render engine Kray (http://www.kraytracing.com/) and it works nicely.

I also found a bug. When I select a folder to store the cache, Direct Folder crashes. Direct Folder is a little tool that offers some extra functions in the load and save dialogs.

Cheers, Florian

Limbus
04-21-2010, 12:45 AM
I just tested it with the 3rd party render engine Kray (http://www.kraytracing.com/) and it works nicely.

With fire that is. It crashes with rendering the smoke example.

Cheers, Florian

COBRASoft
04-21-2010, 12:52 AM
Sorry Chuck, I will keep it in mind for next time.

jawset
04-21-2010, 01:43 AM
Thanks everyone for the bug reports!


Does this work with GI?
Not yet.

erikals
04-21-2010, 01:53 AM
just wondering, as water fluids might be implemented later on,
how will it stand as far as calculation time, how much slower/faster than for example realflow...

jawset
04-21-2010, 02:14 AM
just wondering, as water fluids might be implemented later on,
how will it stand as far as calculation time, how much slower/faster than for example realflow...
It's too early to tell. Generally, just like with the fire/smoke simulation, optimizing for performance is something i put a lot of effort into.

mav3rick
04-21-2010, 02:19 AM
From what I know, it would only work in the final rendering of Fprime, not the previewer.

hv3 can preview in both previewer and render if you are using latest build.... does that mean fprime can show volumetrics or volumetric plugin need some HOOKS so fprime can read it is something i do not understand but atm. fprime renders and previews HV3

SAHiN
04-21-2010, 02:48 AM
But will there be a CORE version?

EDIT: Nevermind, missed your response to my first post. And thanks for confiming my stance.

If Core is going to need an external plugin to do a simple fluid dynamics, why are we buying Core anyways ?
I for one will not..!

erikals
04-21-2010, 02:51 AM
...then why are you asking?

wellsichris
04-21-2010, 02:56 AM
6 mins to sim a couple mins to render, post bloom and cc in fusion.

it's a lot of fun to play with. does reflections nice and fast. ray traced shadows kill render times and it doesn't work with shadow maps. and I think it was mentioned about no motion blur. because viper is only being single threaded it's actually faster to just kick off a render.

jay3d
04-21-2010, 03:51 AM
If Core is going to need an external plugin to do a simple fluid dynamics, why are we buying Core anyways ?
I for one will not..!

If 3ds Max 2011 is going to need FumeFX to do a simple fluid dynamics, why are we buying 3ds Max 2011 anyways ?

hrgiger
04-21-2010, 04:15 AM
If Core is going to need an external plugin to do a simple fluid dynamics, why are we buying Core anyways ?
I for one will not..!

I never implied that. Bullet is supposed to be adding fluid dynamics so I'm sure we'll see it in CORE eventually. But I'm no longer buying plug-ins for 9.6 that aren't going to be ported to CORE.

Cageman
04-21-2010, 05:29 AM
If Core is going to need an external plugin to do a simple fluid dynamics, why are we buying Core anyways ?
I for one will not..!

Saying that is like saying:

"I don't want to buy LW9.6 because I have to buy FPrime separately." Saying this completely overlooks what LW is about and why one would want to use it in a pipeline.

CORE dynamics is based on Bullet, so whatever additions Bullet gets, NewTek can make sure those additions are implemented into CORE. Bullet is currently mostly known for its HBD features, and was used by Digital Domain (using Houdini) to do some very demanding shots in 2012. That said, work is continuing on Soft, Cloth and even Fluid simulation. I think this is awesome, because this allows NewTek to focus on alot more important things. So, to answer your question; CORE will most likely have Fluids when Bullet have it and you will not have to pay for it. :) Obviously I am not counting on third party developments such as Turbulence.

Anyhow...

What is often overlooked in these types of threads are datamanagement requierments; how data can be presented for the user, how data can be manipulated by the user and how interative will this become with thousands of items in a scene. Even if classic LW would have a complete Bullet implementation, the way LW presents and handles the data needed for complex shots would still not make DD choose LW over Houdini. These are things that plugins have little or no control over, and since LW lacks alot in this area (and no, its NOT an easy fix, it would require a complete rewrite...hence CORE), a good plugin, lets say a dynamics plugin, would also have to cater about the user in how he/she through the plugin, may be able to select and manipulate things enmasse, which means that an implementation of Bullet would also require alot of forethought to tackle the limitations of classic LW.

Allready, CORE shows a much, much better approach to this compared to classic LW (although, still work in progress of course) which will also ease the plugin developer; he/she will no longer have to code features into the plugin since the host application allready have these implementations, and most likely, on a lot higher level compared to what the plugin developer actually needs.

So, CORE will offer alot more than just this or that feature (wether it is third party or not); it is very much about datastructure and datamanagement and a much more open environment for scripters/plugin devs.

SAHiN
04-21-2010, 05:41 AM
If 3ds Max 2011 is going to need FumeFX to do a simple fluid dynamics, why are we buying 3ds Max 2011 anyways ?

You'd have to ask that to someone who buys Max.

SAHiN
04-21-2010, 05:45 AM
Saying that is like saying:

"I don't want to buy LW9.6 because I have to buy FPrime separately." Saying this completely overlooks what LW is about and why one would want to use it in a pipeline.

CORE dynamics is based on Bullet, so whatever additions Bullet gets, NewTek can make sure those additions are implemented into CORE. Bullet is currently mostly known for its HBD features, and was used by Digital Domain (using Houdini) to do some very demanding shots in 2012. That said, work is continuing on Soft, Cloth and even Fluid simulation. I think this is awesome, because this allows NewTek to focus on alot more important things. So, to answer your question; CORE will most likely have Fluids when Bullet have it and you will not have to pay for it. :) Obviously I am not counting on third party developments such as Turbulence.

Anyhow...

What is often overlooked in these types of threads are datamanagement requierments; how data can be presented for the user, how data can be manipulated by the user and how interative will this become with thousands of items in a scene. Even if classic LW would have a complete Bullet implementation, the way LW presents and handles the data needed for complex shots would still not make DD choose LW over Houdini. These are things that plugins have little or no control over, and since LW lacks alot in this area (and no, its NOT an easy fix, it would require a complete rewrite...hence CORE), a good plugin, lets say a dynamics plugin, would also have to cater about the user in how he/she through the plugin, may be able to select and manipulate things enmasse, which means that an implementation of Bullet would also require alot of forethought to tackle the limitations of classic LW.

Allready, CORE shows a much, much better approach to this compared to classic LW (although, still work in progress of course) which will also ease the plugin developer; he/she will no longer have to code features into the plugin since the host application allready have these implementations, and most likely, on a lot higher level compared to what the plugin developer actually needs.

So, CORE will offer alot more than just this or that feature (wether it is third party or not); it is very much about datastructure and datamanagement and a much more open environment for scripters/plugin devs.

Yeah right.
Now pull the other one ! :)

walfridson
04-21-2010, 05:47 AM
Don't feed it!

SAHiN
04-21-2010, 05:47 AM
I never implied that. Bullet is supposed to be adding fluid dynamics so I'm sure we'll see it in CORE eventually. But I'm no longer buying plug-ins for 9.6 that aren't going to be ported to CORE.

I respect that. I'm not porting to core so I really couldn't care less.

wellsichris
04-21-2010, 08:39 AM
okay so I tried turning up the sim resolution. it was about 2.5 hrs for the sim. but something went weird half way through.

here's the render. I did both just fire like before then did smoke and fire.

wellsichris
04-21-2010, 08:40 AM
actually so you don't have to do the stupid remove the .html at the end of the downloaded file.


www.chriswellsfx.com/fire2.mov
www.chriswellsfx.com/fire3.mov
www.chriswellsfx.com/fire4.mov

jawset
04-21-2010, 09:47 AM
Hotfix for the shadow related problems and Win32 version are up:
http://jawset.com/downloads.php

jawset
04-21-2010, 09:50 AM
okay so I tried turning up the sim resolution. it was about 2.5 hrs for the sim. but something went weird half way through.
Could you send me a project file so i can reproduce the problem?
Also, if you haven't restarted LW yet, the log file would be useful. It's located in you user home directory (not My Documents) and is called turbulence_lw.log.
Thanks!

HowardM
04-21-2010, 10:26 AM
lol you guys are so funny sometimes... why would i pay money for something blah blah blah...

anyone SERIOUS about FX can afford to buy most anything to do FX because they make MONEY doing FX...

300$ is nothing... especially for something this cool, FINALLY in LW!

now stfu and enjoy it ;)

erikals
04-21-2010, 10:34 AM
Guys, please don't discuss CORE here, start another thread elsewhere.
Let this be the Turbulence Thread, Thanks

http://erikalstad.com/backup/anims.php_files/hijack.gif

wellsichris
04-21-2010, 10:36 AM
yeah, I'll send you a scene file tonight,

turbulence is really great. I think it has so much potential. it's all ready pretty solid for the first release of the beta. Thanks for your hard work. this is defiantly on the top of my list of things to buy.

Cheers,
Chris

monovich
04-21-2010, 10:45 AM
lol you guys are so funny sometimes... why would i pay money for something blah blah blah...

anyone SERIOUS about FX can afford to buy most anything to do FX because they make MONEY doing FX...

300$ is nothing... especially for something this cool, FINALLY in LW!

now stfu and enjoy it ;)

hear hear! I feel like fedexing you a beer.

erikals
04-21-2010, 10:45 AM
i think i'll jump on the Turbulence Ship once it gets the Wavelet filter...
(water fluids is also very welcome)

Howard, €300, not $300... http://erikalstad.com/backup/anims.php_files/tongue.gif

Turbulence & Bakudan, there's no problem getting them both, as they'll most probably simulate different results.

erikals
04-21-2010, 10:53 AM
Jawset, any idea how long the Beta Stage will last?

2 months?
6 months?

jawset
04-21-2010, 12:21 PM
Jawset, any idea how long the Beta Stage will last?

2 months?
6 months?
These estimates are more like speculations in my experience, so i'd rather not make any. But i hope it will be more like the first one ;)
If your concern is the Early Bird offer, there will be an announcement before it's gone. I won't silently remove it...

erikals
04-21-2010, 01:11 PM
These estimates are more like speculations in my experience, so i'd rather not make any. But i hope it will be more like the first one ;)
If your concern is the Early Bird offer, there will be an announcement before it's gone. I won't silently remove it...

yep, the Earlie Birdie was my concern, thank you http://erikalstad.com/backup/anims.php_files/chicken.gif (piip) http://erikalstad.com/backup/anims.php_files/smile.gif

vbk!!!
04-21-2010, 04:40 PM
About Core and Bullet, you Have to notice that Bullet implements SPH (Smooth Particles Hydrodynamic) fluid. It means It's somethings similar to realflow and houdini fluid particles.
So a Plug like Turbulence is always welcome in the future Core toolset. It's a totally different system.

Cageman
04-21-2010, 04:52 PM
About Core and Bullet, you Have to notice that Bullet implements SPH (Smooth Particles Hydrodynamic) fluid. It means It's somethings similar to realflow and houdini fluid particles.
So a Plug like Turbulence is always welcome in the future Core toolset. It's a totally different system.

Agreed!

Options are ALWAYS welcome!

btw... I showed TFD to some co-workers and they were very impressed. One of my co-workers (a freelancer) is using C4D (on Mac) in his own studio and he is going to keep a very close look on the progress of this plugin.

:)

Digital Hermit
04-21-2010, 05:06 PM
lol you guys are so funny sometimes... why would i pay money for something blah blah blah...

anyone SERIOUS about FX can afford to buy most anything to do FX because they make MONEY doing FX...

300$ is nothing... especially for something this cool, FINALLY in LW!

now stfu and enjoy it ;)

Arrg, keep an eye out... me thinks hobbyists be on board... arrg!

Oh yes, jawset ... just making sure... you said you are working on a GI solution? :D

Best,

khan973
04-21-2010, 05:59 PM
Hi guys, some tests here!
I definitely love it already!

Liquid Azote
http://vimeo.com/11120564

Smoke & Fire
http://vimeo.com/11121889

adk
04-21-2010, 06:11 PM
nice tests khan973.

... heck it's attractive enough for a total FX hobbyist like me to consider plonking down the cash. Cheers for the 32bit version jawset :thumbsup: now I can play around.

jasonwestmas
04-21-2010, 07:03 PM
Hi guys, some tests here!
I definitely love it already!

Liquid Azote
http://vimeo.com/11120564

Smoke & Fire
http://vimeo.com/11121889

WawahWOW!:heart:

Andy Meyer
04-21-2010, 07:08 PM
exactly what i'm looking for.
thanks for posting!

eyelandarts
04-21-2010, 07:29 PM
hey, khan looks great! how did you get the collision only objects to work? I check the obstacle check mark but it still emits smoke. Also, has anyone tried it on harbodies moving or bouncing? I couldnt get it to work with any deforming geo.

khan973
04-21-2010, 07:56 PM
hey, khan looks great! how did you get the collision only objects to work? I check the obstacle check mark but it still emits smoke. Also, has anyone tried it on harbodies moving or bouncing? I couldnt get it to work with any deforming geo.

Thanks!
You use an emitter on the object you want a collision on, you check "obstacle" and put all thhe other parameters to 0. That's it!

I'm trying to get cigaret-like smoke, but it's giving me a hard time as I'm not familiar with CFD and its parameters.I'm still working on it!

eyelandarts
04-21-2010, 07:57 PM
great! it works! thanks.

Mr Rid
04-21-2010, 09:56 PM
with your background you should be able to beta test right now, as you're in the movies industries. Just contact Kat.
http://battlestarvfx.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11

I did awhile ago. Never heard from them again. But it was explained to me that Bakudan would only work thru Dynamite Pro if you have it, which I dont. Then later it would be its own app.

erikals
04-21-2010, 09:58 PM
true, forgot, i think you still need Dynamite, you'd have to ask at the Bakudan forums (http://battlestarvfx.com/forums/)

wellsichris
04-21-2010, 10:07 PM
Jawset,

I just sent you a PM with a link to the log and scene files. Let me say this latest fix is awesome. shadows are working great and so much faster!! and now the fire shows up in the alpha. The GI is working.

I can't believe how fast this renders, it's great!!

UnCommonGrafx
04-21-2010, 10:53 PM
Thanks for the beta, particularly 32 bit.
How do I install it if my directory structure is C:\lwhc and my plugins are in another folder on another hd?

prometheus
04-22-2010, 02:09 AM
true, forgot, i think you still need Dynamite, you'd have to ask at the Bakudan forums (http://battlestarvfx.com/forums/)

Gee..what a bummer, if that is true..then bakudan is really limiting since
dynamite pro isnīt available anymore.
I hope they get rid of relying on dynamite pro as soon as possible.

Michael

erikals
04-22-2010, 02:13 AM
Gee..what a bummer, if that is true..then bakudan is really limiting since
dynamite pro isnīt available anymore.
I hope they get rid of relying on dynamite pro as soon as possible.

Michael
it's just temporary.
in not too long they will get rid of the Dynamite part.
making Bakudan independent.

Philbert
04-22-2010, 03:22 AM
Confused by installation. Ran the .exe, started LW, nothing. Realized it was pointing at the wrong folder. Installed to the right one, started LW, nothing. How are you supposed to install it? (64 bit).

Edit:
OK ok I got it, had to do a bunch of manually setting it up.

Philbert
04-22-2010, 04:21 AM
Here's my first test render!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2ACXZEnSi4

*Pete*
04-22-2010, 05:10 AM
If Core is going to need an external plugin to do a simple fluid dynamics, why are we buying Core anyways ?
I for one will not..!


the Bullet Dynamics that is included in CORE is developed outside of NT as open source...and its very (VERY) close to fluiddynamics.

once Bullet gets fluids, then all NT has to do is to update CORE to include it with it....for no cost for NT and for no effort at all.

when it comes to dynamics, i think it will be the last thing to worry about...

khan973
04-22-2010, 05:54 AM
Cigaret Smoke

http://vimeo.com/11134223

edit: Should work now

Gregg "T.Rex"
04-22-2010, 06:27 AM
Link doesn't work...

jawset
04-22-2010, 07:10 AM
How do I install it if my directory structure is C:\lwhc and my plugins are in another folder on another hd?
The last update (v0.2.22) can be installed in any directory. If you're not installing into your LW folder, you will have to add the plugin manually (using Utilities/Plugins/Add Plugin).
In any case you have to add the Add Fluid Container command to the menu manually using Edit Menu Layout.

mav3rick
04-22-2010, 08:29 AM
now we are talking.. time for some turbulance weekend

allyboy13
04-22-2010, 12:26 PM
fantastic plugin, this has great potential...84271.......just had to fry a donut

tyrot
04-22-2010, 12:36 PM
jawset! wow..years later ...within LW im playing with fluids.!!..how cool is that..and it is freaaaaaaking fast...

jawset
04-22-2010, 01:39 PM
Today's build is up:
http://jawset.com/downloads.php

- fixed slow OpenGL performance at higher container resolutions
- should fix DLL troubles during installation
- fixed wellsichris' sim-blowup
- several other bugfixes

"Fill Object" can degrade the sim performance atm - still needs some optimization.

OnlineRender
04-22-2010, 01:42 PM
nice now how the hell do you work AE version :D

Philbert
04-22-2010, 04:32 PM
jawset! wow..years later ...within LW im playing with fluids.!!..how cool is that..and it is freaaaaaaking fast...

Actually to be fair DStorm has had their Liquid Pack for a long time but I don't think I've ever seen an English translation. Of course it's completely different from this.

http://www.dstorm.co.jp/products/plugins/liquidPack/

Larry_g1s
04-22-2010, 05:16 PM
I just tested it with the 3rd party render engine Kray (http://www.kraytracing.com/) and it works nicely.Very very cool.

rdrdrd23
04-23-2010, 02:59 AM
Hi guys, some tests here!
I definitely love it already!
Liquid Azote
http://vimeo.com/11120564
Smoke & Fire
http://vimeo.com/11121889

khan973 :thumbsup: +10

HowardM
04-23-2010, 03:06 AM
Actually to be fair DStorm has had their Liquid Pack for a long time but I don't think I've ever seen an English translation. Of course it's completely different from this.

http://www.dstorm.co.jp/products/plugins/liquidPack/

not even in the same ballpark mate!

prometheus
04-23-2010, 03:17 AM
Cigaret Smoke

http://vimeo.com/11134223

edit: Should work now


cool..

Maybe I shouldnīt say anything yet since itīs very early in itīs stage and
everybody doing early tests, but anyway..some of the test renders have a
typical blobby look to them, as in this smoke sample, I guess that probably due to low resolution simulation of the test renders, or if itīs som
ething else perhaps.

Michael

prometheus
04-23-2010, 03:19 AM
Complete nonsense... sorry to pick your post, but some things need clarification:
Bakudan will be completely independent from dynamite on release.
All Kelly said was that they'll work on the rendering part first, so that beta(!) users that have used dynamite cashes in their projects can render those as early as possible - which will serve as a beta test for the render part and it's also a convenience nod to former dynamite users (most likely those that are now interested in fluid solutions, makes sense, doesn't it?) that Bakudan will understand Dynamite cashes at all. However - on release Bakudan will not need any Dynamite interference. Hope that clears things up.

Yepp..that is noted.

michael

Philbert
04-23-2010, 03:23 AM
not even in the same ballpark mate!

As I noted. I was just sharing because a comment was made that there were no fluids in LW.

jawset
04-23-2010, 03:53 AM
Maybe I shouldnīt say anything yet since itīs very early in itīs stage and everybody doing early tests, but anyway..
Actually, the earlier the better.


some of the test renders have a typical blobby look to them, as in this smoke sample, I guess that probably due to low resolution simulation of the test renders, or if itīs something else perhaps.
Yes, at low resolutions you are looking at the interpolation that has a blobby characteristic. There are several ways to reduce the blobbieness:
- use sharp shader mapping curves
- use velocity displacement
- increase resolution
- use fluid textures (coming soon)

djlithium
04-23-2010, 03:55 AM
true, forgot, i think you still need Dynamite, you'd have to ask at the Bakudan forums (http://battlestarvfx.com/forums/)

You will not require Dynamite to run Bakudan. Where did you get this from?
At one point we almost had it working where you could use our render-er to replace dynamite to avoid the multi-threaded shredding problem but still use dynamite for backwards compatibility of scenes.
We have since abandoned that because it's not required any longer since its faster in our system to rebuild the scene completely anyway and it was a feature that we poked a few people about and they said they could live with out.

djlithium
04-23-2010, 04:03 AM
Oh, yeah, one other thing - and don't get my wrong I am really excited to see this product from Jawset, its really cool - but Bakudan is intended to do more than fluidic smoke/fire. It will do (eventually) dynamite/HV style particle rendering as well.

djlithium
04-23-2010, 04:08 AM
Gee..what a bummer, if that is true..then bakudan is really limiting since
dynamite pro isnīt available anymore.
I hope they get rid of relying on dynamite pro as soon as possible.

Michael

There will be no dependency on Dynamite to get bakudan to work. Geeeze. Stop the speculation ok? what is this, the core beta forums? fawwwk.

mav3rick
04-23-2010, 04:45 AM
ok for 3 pages i am trying not to jump in with this pointless THREAD spamming... please guys if you have some bukatan / liquid pack or any pack attack thread discussion going make yourself VS thread and discuss there... we are discussing JAWSET turbulence here so keep this thread clean and informative, post ideas, post reports and post your work.

@dj please use EDIT button/quote no need of 3 posts

UnCommonGrafx
04-23-2010, 04:57 AM
To this end, the end of speculation,try this space for such a discussion: http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1011518#post1011518
Please take advantage of that thread to continue your Bakudan comments, DJLithium, in order to keep a clearer thread. 'Preciate it.

There will be no dependency on Dynamite to get bakudan to work. Geeeze. Stop the speculation ok? what is this, the core beta forums? fawwwk.

Jawset,
Is 32bit still not working? I keep getting an error trying to install TFD. Looks awfully fun...

jawset
04-23-2010, 05:09 AM
Is 32bit still not working? I keep getting an error trying to install TFD. Looks awfully fun...
If you get a DLL related error after installation, try copying the 4 Qt<XYZ>.dll files from the installation directory (or c:\windows for versions before 0.2.23) to the LightWave/Programs directory.
There is still a DLL-Hell (tm) related problem on some 32bit systems that needs to be worked out.

UnCommonGrafx
04-23-2010, 05:50 AM
Great, thanks and glad to see there may be a resolution. Will try later as I am behind School-reduced-knowledge firewalls....

prometheus
04-23-2010, 05:52 AM
There will be no dependency on Dynamite to get bakudan to work. Geeeze. Stop the speculation ok? what is this, the core beta forums? fawwwk.

Sorry for having intercepted that the wrong way, I guess I was mislead or percepted it the wrong way
by earlier post in this thread.

Wonderful to hear that bakudan also will have similar particle shader as dynamite, that is great:thumbsup:

Michael

erikals
04-23-2010, 07:47 AM
There will be no dependency on Dynamite to get bakudan to work. Geeeze. Stop the speculation ok? what is this, the core beta forums? fawwwk.

LOL, sorry :]

anyway, info for curious people... http://battlestarvfx.com/forums/
(sorry if this is seen as a Hijack, it's not meant to be, anyway, i'll stop mentioning Bakudan in this thread)

khan973
04-23-2010, 09:21 AM
At first (before the Bakudan forum started) i thought it would also be something that would rely on Dynamite, but that they stopped it quickly to develop from scratch the renderer and simulation.
Of course, relying on Dynamite makes no sens as there is clearly no more support and you can even buy it without getting it (according to Kat) we don't even know if the developper is still alive or free...

It's ok to have different solution on Lightwave, for example, as external rendering we have Kray (well integrated), Fry render, Maxwell render and each one goves something different and interesting.

I prefer having the choice, one tool might be good for pro, the other one better (+ cheaper) for beginners and hobbyists, who knows?!

erikals
04-23-2010, 10:02 AM
ditto that.

Philbert
04-23-2010, 12:31 PM
ok for 3 pages i am trying not to jump in with this pointless THREAD spamming... please guys if you have some bukatan / liquid pack or any pack attack thread discussion going make yourself VS thread and discuss there... we are discussing JAWSET turbulence here so keep this thread clean and informative, post ideas, post reports and post your work.

Just to be clear, I had no spam intentions whatsoever. I'm very excited for Turbulance and am having a lot of fun paying with the beta.

GregMalick
04-23-2010, 10:50 PM
I followed the video and Everything seems to work except I don't get anything all when I render except the donut.
I did install the plugin in a separate directory. Is there anything I need to move/copy to the LW "Programs" directory (or elsewhere) in order to get the smoke to render?


BTW - calculates very fast (except the last third frames slow significantly). But very manageable.

Philbert
04-23-2010, 11:40 PM
The EXE installs two folders but puts them in the wrong place.

I got
C:\Program Files\NewTek\LightWave 3D 9\Programs
and
C:\Program Files\NewTek\LightWave 3D 9\Plugins

But my correct folder is "LightWave 3D 96", So I had to grab the contents of those folders and transfer them to the correct folders.

GregMalick
04-24-2010, 02:40 AM
The EXE installs two folders but puts them in the wrong place.

I got
C:\Program Files\NewTek\LightWave 3D 9\Programs
and
C:\Program Files\NewTek\LightWave 3D 9\Plugins

But my correct folder is "LightWave 3D 96", So I had to grab the contents of those folders and transfer them to the correct folders.

I actually installed it to my E:\LightWave\External Plugins\FX\
directory. I don't see and directories like you describe . Not in that area or in C:\Program Files\NewTek\

Is it possible for you to tell me what files were moved?
Maybe I can find them (all I see are the .p and QT.dll's)

jawset
04-24-2010, 02:40 AM
I followed the video and Everything seems to work except I don't get anything all when I render except the donut.
Did you try one of the example projects? It's easier to get started than setting up a scene from scratch.
If you can simulate that means the plugin is installed correctly. Not seeing anything rendered usually means the channel selected in the shader is empty. Make sure you use the right channel, your emitter has some geometry and does emit into the channel you are trying to render.


BTW - calculates very fast (except the last third frames slow significantly). But very manageable.
Yes, there's a known issue that may cause a slowdown like that - working on it.

Philbert
04-24-2010, 02:46 AM
Inside the Plugins folder there should be a folder called TurbulanceLW, inside that you should have these:

http://content.screencast.com/users/philnolan3d/folders/Jing/media/0380810e-f06a-4e66-993b-daf876812351/2010-04-24_0443.png

The Manual folder has a bunch of images and an HTML file, the Examples folder has some object and scene files.

Inside the Programs folder goes these files:

http://content.screencast.com/users/philnolan3d/folders/Jing/media/4e20dfca-3d0f-4165-b240-dc47c8618d81/2010-04-24_0446.png

walfridson
04-24-2010, 03:00 AM
Ran the installer, pointed to my plugins folder
Worked great. Restarted layout of course to make it pick up the dll...

LW HC

UnCommonGrafx
04-24-2010, 04:10 AM
Yup, finally got it!
Had to laugh at myself after about 15 mins of no renders showing up. Read the directions again, loaded an example scene and decided it was user error.
Read the docs one more time... "...rendering is restricted to a maximum resolution of 480x360..." hmmm, changed the camera et voila! Renders so quick!

Made me forget the price...

I am getting a situation where the TFD container seems to jump up, midway of the emitter.
Also, seems if I go to the surface editor while working with tfd, I lose tfd in Viper for the rest of the session.

A stellar start.

Gregg "T.Rex"
04-24-2010, 04:27 AM
Also, seems if I go to the surface editor while working with tfd, I lose tfd in Viper for the rest of the session.

Perhaps, that's because Surface Editor takes command of the Viper and no longer you can see the Volumetrics...

stevecullum
04-24-2010, 04:40 AM
The biggest issue I'm having so far is random crashes when using the 'stop' button during calculating. Sometimes it works and sometimes it hangs. Even though I don't have a production use for it right now, I'm having so much fun with this plugin I'm thinking of trading 100 pints of beer in for it. :)

walfridson
04-24-2010, 05:07 AM
100 pints of beer in for it. :)

100 pints of UK tap water can make you see double too you know ;)

But I agree, damn fun to play with.

JamesCurtis
04-24-2010, 07:14 AM
Inside the Plugins folder there should be a folder called TurbulanceLW, inside that you should have these:

http://content.screencast.com/users/philnolan3d/folders/Jing/media/0380810e-f06a-4e66-993b-daf876812351/2010-04-24_0443.png

The Manual folder has a bunch of images and an HTML file, the Examples folder has some object and scene files.

Inside the Programs folder goes these files:

http://content.screencast.com/users/philnolan3d/folders/Jing/media/4e20dfca-3d0f-4165-b240-dc47c8618d81/2010-04-24_0446.png

My 64 bit LW 9.6 install of TFD has the QT plugins seen in the 2nd pic [from Philberts images] actually in the TurbulenceLW_Win64 directory in my Plugins Folder. Works fine.

BTW, TurbulenceLW is the installation directory for my 32bit version.

UnCommonGrafx
04-24-2010, 08:23 AM
Correct, I figure, as Hypervoxels do. Or even Taiki as it does it, too. But they all "give it back" once you click upon a panel that wants to take it back. So, with those you can go back and forth, seeing what is where in Viper.
This should do the same.

Perhaps, that's because Surface Editor takes command of the Viper and no longer you can see the Volumetrics...

vbk!!!
04-24-2010, 08:29 AM
Download and install
I am just startin to play with ...
Regading the doc, It seems the only way to get high detailled smoke is to increase the rez of the field.
Jawset, what do you think about the wavelet turbulence method for fluid simulation ?
I am playing with particle aswell. It seems difficult to make the voxel inherit the velocity of the particles. Basically I am trying to make a flamethrower ...Maybe I forgot to check some parameters !

fudini
04-24-2010, 12:28 PM
Hi,

I can't load the plugin in the LW 9.6 non-SSE2 version of Lightwave.
When I try and add the TurbulenceLWLGCY_lw9.p plugin I get the message: "Plugins could not be found or could not be added"

System:
XP32
Dual AMD AthlonMP 2000+

GregMalick
04-24-2010, 12:52 PM
Aloha all,

1. I tried a provided sample scene (no good)
2. I copied the dll's to my LW9.6 program folder (still nothing)
3. I then read this:


Yup, finally got it!
Had to laugh at myself after about 15 mins of no renders showing up. Read the directions again, loaded an example scene and decided it was user error.
Read the docs one more time... "...rendering is restricted to a maximum resolution of 480x360..." hmmm, changed the camera et voila! Renders so quick!

Wowie ka-zowie! Rendering the mushroom cloud in 1.9 seconds.
Amazing. for

Thanks to everyone for making suggestions, especially to Robert for making me realize it was "user error".

I wish when I rendered the first time a message box had come up saying:
"The beta/demo version will only render at a maximum of 360x480". Please set you camera accordingly. Or better if that text had printed over my render.

Anyway really impressive. Very tempting.

It would be awesome if us hobbyists could purchase a non-commercial version for € 225.00 (~$300).

That would be enough to sway me.

waelkf
04-25-2010, 04:21 AM
amazing, thank you

Wael

zapper1998
04-25-2010, 07:50 AM
Can U do Fire and smoke at the same time ????
Or do I need to add another null ???

Been un successfull

massmusic
04-25-2010, 09:30 AM
First, a disclaimer. I installed Turbulence on a system running LW 9.6 in Discovery mode because my dongled computer is rendering and will be for a few more days.

The plugins are installed in the right places. I can access all the menus and set up a scene according to the tut. I get no simulation or render.

When using an example scene file, I can run a simulation, see the particles being emitted when scrubbing the timeline, but get no rendered output.

My guess is TFD is looking for a dongle so I’ll have to wait a few more days to get to play.

allyboy13
04-25-2010, 09:36 AM
hi zapper 1998,
you can can produce smoke and fire at the same time. i find the best way to run the plugin is to add an object in layout, then obect properties and add fluid emitter, the null will be added automatically. i had to do this to import a particular mesh from moddeler. once you have added the fluid emmiter to your mesh, add the fluid container around the object. in the fluid container properties ensure you allocate a channel to the smoke ...say density and a channel to fire...say temperature, set the cache and run the simulation..........84317

BigHache
04-25-2010, 09:38 AM
massmusic, I haven't tried disconnecting my dongle, but check your camera resolution settings. If the camera resolution is higher than 480x360 (ATM), then the scene will render but the Turbulence effects will not. Sounds like what you may be running into.

UnCommonGrafx
04-25-2010, 09:47 AM
Reads like my post above:
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1011850&postcount=192

Change the camera and you are in the club.

massmusic
04-25-2010, 10:11 AM
Nixie-Nine!

The example scene particle_fire.lws default the camera to 320x240 in both camera properties and render global. Still no output.

No..no... You guys just go on with out me...I’ll catch up.....

UnCommonGrafx
04-25-2010, 10:36 AM
Does color mode -> manual cause lw to crash for anyone else?

I have containers re-positioning themselves on emitters. I do not wish this behavior, having placed the emitter at the bottom... Is obstacle the fix for this as it seems so?

An interesting simulator.

BigHache
04-25-2010, 10:52 AM
massmusic, I was able to render "particle_fire.lws" in Discovery mode just fine. Seems you may be facing a different issue.

Are you running 64 or 32 bit? I haven't tried the 32 bit myself.

UnCommonGrafx, I haven't experienced a crash with Manual color as you've described.

I'm not sure I understand the second part of your post, but the Obstacle check should be for what you want the fluid dynamics to go around and not through.

UnCommonGrafx
04-25-2010, 11:04 AM
That may be the gist of the problem or my understanding.

What I did was:
- Load a simple text object
- make it an emitter
- add a container
- move the base of the Container into a position for the beginning of the seen effect for me. Smoke from the bottom, for example.
- Simulate.
Seems like the container jumps to the middle.

Upon watching the vid again, seems the object was moved into place as opposed to the other way around, i.e., the container being moved into position.

massmusic
04-25-2010, 11:07 AM
BigHache,
It is 32 bit. I'm just going to chill till the dongled computer in done. Thanks all for the help

allyboy13
04-25-2010, 11:24 AM
i could not resist it .............84321 enjoy. i did this by paying around with the turbulence, added a dome light and ...booooom

H_Molla
04-25-2010, 12:33 PM
If you wish, you can purchase it now, and save about 25% of the final release price! :)

http://jawset.com/purchase.php

I tell ya, the Buy Now button is really tempting me. I've been looking over Ken's shoulder today, and even though this is beta software, we're giddy about how well Turbulence works already.

G.

If i Buy now, would i be able to update to Core free ??

H_Molla
04-25-2010, 12:40 PM
amazing, thank you

Wael

Wael, I just checked LW-Grapher..it is v.good.

Hesham

OnlineRender
04-25-2010, 02:52 PM
First, a disclaimer. I installed Turbulence on a system running LW 9.6 in Discovery mode because my dongled computer is rendering and will be for a few more days.

The plugins are installed in the right places. I can access all the menus and set up a scene according to the tut. I get no simulation or render.

When using an example scene file, I can run a simulation, see the particles being emitted when scrubbing the timeline, but get no rendered output.

My guess is TFD is looking for a dongle so I’ll have to wait a few more days to get to play.

hmm make sure the render size is correct 320 * 240 I think , otherwise it will not render " I think " :D

gordonrobb
04-25-2010, 04:46 PM
Did anyone have any problems getting renders to work. I followed the intro, but when I hit F9, I only get the donut. the slice preview works, but not the render.

Philbert
04-25-2010, 04:50 PM
Did anyone have any problems getting renders to work. I followed the intro, but when I hit F9, I only get the donut. the slice preview works, but not the render.

Did you keep the render resolution under 480x360 as we've just been discussing?

jawset
04-26-2010, 05:04 AM
I can't load the plugin in the LW 9.6 non-SSE2 version of Lightwave.
System:
XP32
Dual AMD AthlonMP 2000+
TFD requires SSE to run. Non-SSE will not be supported.
But your CPU should support SSE, too. AMD has been supporting it since the Athlon XP/MP series in 2001.


Does color mode -> manual cause lw to crash for anyone else?
Manual Color has known problems. Will be fixed ASAP.


If i Buy now, would i be able to update to Core free ??
Yes.

massmusic
04-26-2010, 06:21 AM
hmm make sure the render size is correct 320 * 240 I think , otherwise it will not render " I think " :D

Yes Online, I did. I've been playing around with it and all of a sudden... ignition! Time to play!

fudini
04-26-2010, 11:26 AM
TFD requires SSE to run. Non-SSE will not be supported. But your CPU should support SSE, too. AMD has been supporting it since the Athlon XP/MP series in 2001.

It supports SSE but not SSE2. AMD didn't implement SSE2 until the Athlon 64 in 2003. Fortunately Newtek gives you the option to choose non-SSE2 (not non-SSE) when you install. Anyway, this is the first time I've tried a Lightwave plug-in that refused to even load. Yeah I know, when I can afford it I really need to get a new computer! :compbeati

In the meantime, for this sort of thing, I'll have to amuse myself with Houdini Apprentice HD which thankfully still runs on this architecture.:)

EmperorPete
04-26-2010, 12:03 PM
Oh this is SO much fun. I'm mostly a hobbyist (a few smallish commissions here and there but nothing hugely profitable) but this has impressed me enough to keep a VERY close eye on Turbulence's development and probably find a way to stump up for the full product. Superb stuff jawset, and thank you for the public beta!

jawset
04-26-2010, 02:53 PM
Today's build is up:
http://jawset.com/downloads.php

- Mac OS X (Intel) build
- Motion Blur
- allow to render stills at any resolution without license
- lots of bugfixes

vbk!!!
04-26-2010, 03:07 PM
just tried it

Same problem with particle.
The solver start fire where the particles are detected but It's not able to follows the particle path and velocity.
I made a little anim to show you.
As you can see, the voxel continues to burn since I can detect particle going trhough but it the behavior is wrong. Each flame shouldn't be vertical but make a trail starting from the particle which create it.
It's not a problem for the solver to compute object's movement but it can't deal with particle's movement for the moment.

stevecullum
04-26-2010, 03:21 PM
The solver start fire where the particles are detected but It's not able to follows the particle path and velocity.

I've also been playing about with particles and have noticed this. But I think its correct behaviour, as the particles trajectory through the fluid container is unaffected by heat, fuel wind etc.. The smoke and fire on the other hand is, so it will soon do its own thing regardless of the particle motion. As your trying to create a flame thrower, maybe you could try forcing a fuel source over a separate flame object. Not sure how you would create the pressurised fuel injectors though 8/

vbk!!!
04-26-2010, 03:33 PM
pressurised fuel is particles with specific velocity. If you consider each particles as a source for the solver (like any object could be), there is not big deal (but heat diffusion and flame expansion).
But for the moment particles don't act like a source but like a trigger which make react/burn the voxel they pass through.
Trigger is an interesting features anyway, but I would like make my particles a real source the solver.
Maybe is misread the doc and I forgot something ...

stevecullum
04-26-2010, 03:46 PM
I think I understand the issue. So its like each particle itself generates a bit of smoke wherever it passes through in the container, but not from the particles own self. Is that because it has no volume? Perhaps attaching some small poly spheres to each particles is the answer?

vbk!!!
04-26-2010, 03:59 PM
hmmm ....
I'm lazy !
If you're right Stevecullum, I prefer Jawset add a virtual radius to the particle like Houdini does !

eyelandarts
04-26-2010, 04:04 PM
I think I know what you mean. the effect should follow the velocity vector of the particle. This puts my plans for a fiery twister on hold.

UnCommonGrafx
04-26-2010, 04:06 PM
What about partigons? That should do what you wish.

But the virtual radius does add a bit of cream to this delish pie.

stevecullum
04-26-2010, 04:16 PM
Yep, would be a nice feature for sure. Can't play at the moment - got a 40 hour render baking away in the background :( Where is GPU rendering when you need it!

Cageman
04-27-2010, 04:39 AM
Today's build is up:
http://jawset.com/downloads.php

- Mac OS X (Intel) build
- Motion Blur
- allow to render stills at any resolution without license
- lots of bugfixes

Wow... just wow!

The sheer speed in which you are developing and adding features is blowing me away.

I have a couple of plugins to buy for LW, but lets just say that this gem is taking the top spot of what next to buy for LW. Simply amazing!

:)

mav3rick
04-27-2010, 04:45 AM
if support continues this way JAW is going to get quiet of users heading his way...

artstorm
04-27-2010, 05:23 AM
Wow... just wow!

The sheer speed in which you are developing and adding features is blowing me away.

I have a couple of plugins to buy for LW, but lets just say that this gem is taking the top spot of what next to buy for LW. Simply amazing!

:)

Quoted for agreement.
I'm really impressed with the state the beta already is in, and the rate it evolves. Count on getting my order being sent your way as soon as my current project is delivered and I have some time to dig into a new toy. Excellent! :)

MentalFish
04-27-2010, 05:43 AM
This is truly coolness! I might have to jump on this opportunity, as I am not getting on the good side with HV. Yet another life extending solution for LW.

My shopping spree of LW plugins will soon >= a full license for another app all together :D Then again, getting a handfull of highend LW plugins <= one year of maintenance on any of the 3 big.

BigHache
04-27-2010, 06:38 AM
Also new Windows beta builds supporting rendering above 480x360. HD 1080 looks pretty fab with this plugin!!! :2guns:

Limbus
04-27-2010, 06:41 AM
This is looking better and better. I just wrote a bid where I could use this. Hope I get it!

Cheers, Florian

gordonrobb
04-27-2010, 06:57 AM
I am loving this. I am seriously considering buying now. Can I confirm that you said that the core upgrade would be free?

Here is my first attempt at a kind of down draft kind of thing. I can see real potential for this.

prometheus
04-27-2010, 07:01 AM
woho..now 32 bit, thanks for that, now I donīt have to wait until
I get me my new 64 bit system..

looking darn good and pretty fast on a very ordinary desktop computer at work, canīt wait until I get home to check it on quadro fx 1100.

this is truly exciting:thumbsup:

Michael

EmperorPete
04-27-2010, 08:35 AM
Also new Windows beta builds supporting rendering above 480x360. HD 1080 looks pretty fab with this plugin!!! :2guns:
Too right it does!
However the requesters that pop up every quarter of a frame if you try and render a sequence of frames at a higher res than 480x360 were a colossal pain when you don't know it'll happen and you hit render on an animation of 600 frames. That was a lot of sitting there with my finger on "Escape" closing 2400 requesters waiting for a render that wasn't even rendering to end... *headdesk*

tyrot
04-27-2010, 09:13 AM
hey gordon..
can you post that scene :) pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase:) it looks awesome

gordonrobb
04-27-2010, 09:29 AM
I would if I had saved it. I'm going to spend sometime messing tonight, so will redo it.

rdrdrd23
04-27-2010, 10:15 AM
not 1,000% why Jawset, but my Malware Antibytes blocks access to your http://jawset.com/downloads.php page. More likely something thats being over zealous my end, but worth checking with you.

Incidentally, the results of the sim look *amazing* so kudos +50 for now.... going to d/l and have-a-play liek everyone else now! 8)))

HowardM
04-28-2010, 04:24 AM
Same problem with particle.
The solver start fire where the particles are detected but It's not able to follows the particle path and velocity.
I made a little anim to show you.

hey dude how are you and the family?! still in france?!

i dont have it at work, but i think there is some setting to turn on that allows particles to also affect the smoke and move it, etc...
think its in the t4d emitter settings...

paulselhi
04-28-2010, 05:11 AM
As you may have seen on the main Jawset page i have a few tutorials available for free on my site

http://www.black-and-white-to-color.com/ipbsfx/

Now these are for cinema 4d but don't worry as the principles are virtually the same for LW. However T4D has seen many updates and the current publicly available beta for C4D is well behind the LW one, so there will be some slightly outdated stuff in the tuts but they should still serve to get your juices flowing. As an early bird tester i have the latest C4D version and this is on par with your LW version so when i talk about upcoming features to a C4D audience LW users will likely already have those features

stevecullum
04-28-2010, 06:04 AM
Thanks Paul, Already watched a few of these and they have been a great help! ;)

OlaHaldor
04-28-2010, 06:57 AM
I just installed the Mac version. Upon load of the plugin, Little Snitch tells me that the plug-in is "calling home". What's it for?

jawset
04-28-2010, 06:58 AM
I just installed the Mac version. Upon load of the plugin, Little Snitch tells me that the plug-in is "calling home". What's it for?
It's checking for updates. You can disable it in the Updates tab of the container properties.

jawset
04-28-2010, 11:42 AM
Today's build is up:
http://jawset.com/downloads.php

- fixed particle velocity issues (vbk's posts)
- added flame thrower example
- added particle velocity mode (set/add as for the other channels)
- resolution restriction popup only once per render session (sorry...)
- fixed a problem with loading projects saved with v0.2.23
- advance LW time-line in sub-frame steps (according to actual sim-steps)
- fixed occasional deadlock when stopping sim
- other minor bugfixes

stevecullum
04-28-2010, 11:51 AM
Thanks for the update! - Will be testing shortly :)

vbk!!!
04-28-2010, 12:12 PM
hey dude how are you and the family?! still in france?!

i dont have it at work, but i think there is some setting to turn on that allows particles to also affect the smoke and move it, etc...
think its in the t4d emitter settings...

Hey Howard,
Happy to read you !
I'm still in France for the moment :my 2 kids are to young !
Hope everything is fine for you in London.



Today's build is up:
http://jawset.com/downloads.php

- fixed particle velocity issues (vbk's posts)
- added flame thrower example
- added particle velocity mode (set/add as for the other channels)
- resolution restriction popup only once per render session (sorry...)
- fixed a problem with loading projects saved with v0.2.23
- advance LW time-line in sub-frame steps (according to actual sim-steps)
- fixed occasional deadlock when stopping sim
- other minor bugfixes

Thanks man !
I'll try it as soon as possible !

gordonrobb
04-28-2010, 12:38 PM
Excellent. Tweaked the thrower particles a little. I had no idea that you could use particles as the fluid emmiter. Excellent.

walfridson
04-28-2010, 01:05 PM
Howard your PM folder needs spring cleaning