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TheDeacon
04-02-2010, 08:41 AM
I'm sure there's tons of these type of threads in the archives- but since I'm here to bring a fresh start, a fresh perspective (and keep things current)...I figured I'd ask.

I was wondering- what do you folks feel has been the best use of LightWave 3D?

What movies, tv shows, print ads, commercials, games done in LightWave truly impressed you?

I'm talking past, present- even future (if you're working on something you know will be absolutely amazing and groundbreaking)...

have fun with it, provide video links and images.. but keep it safe.. if you know what i mean. ;)

Dexter2999
04-02-2010, 10:21 AM
The Mark I suite in IRON MAN.
The Oracle scene in 300.
It's role in AVATAR.
The space scenes in FIREFLY and BATTLESTAR GALACTICA.
It's use in SARAH CONNOR CHRONICALS TERMINATOR series.
The buildings in DARK KNIGHT. (I read that somewhere here...I didn't know they were CG or that LW was used.)
It's use on CSI (don't know if it is still being used though) or pretty much anything ZOIC has used it for.
Ocean storm in THE GUARDIAN.
KAZE: Ghost Warrior.
THE PASSENGER.

sampei
04-02-2010, 10:26 AM
William Vaughan in "Partly Cloudy" !

GandB
04-02-2010, 10:31 AM
Games = The Serious Sam Collection.

*Pete*
04-02-2010, 10:44 AM
I'm sure there's tons of these type of threads in the archives- but since I'm here to bring a fresh start, a fresh perspective (and keep things current)...I figured I'd ask.

I was wondering- what do you folks feel has been the best use of LightWave 3D?

What movies, tv shows, print ads, commercials, games done in LightWave truly impressed you?

its not only movies, tv shows, print ads and such that show the quality of LW.

you should also take a look into the experience of people like Cageman, Nanogator, Splinegod, Rob Powers and many others who work with multiple apps.

what is always impressive is when a multi-app team plans to make something in (typically) Maya, only to end up with overly complicated, slow progress and then these guys pull out LW and rescue the day.

the strenght of LW is speed, reliability and simplicity.

it may not be the best app for every situation, but it certainly does have its strenghts.


im not sure about marketing law in USA, but atleast here in Norway it is illegal to include a competing brand in an negative way into a commercial for your own product....so, you have to figure out a way to convince people that LW is the rescue-the-day app or the one-man-army app without being obviously negative about the competition.

Kuzey
04-02-2010, 11:22 AM
As far as avatar is concerned, you won't convince people in the outside world that LW was used...those photoshoped images didn't help any.

There is a thread here somewhere, about a team of 3/4 people making a movie set in the Roman times...that was pretty good :thumbsup:

Kuzey

hrgiger
04-02-2010, 11:26 AM
I love 24 so I've enjoyed seeing Lightwave's use there.

Netvudu
04-02-2010, 12:50 PM
Regarding cinematics, "War in conflict", and I think the first Killzone 2 trailer were also LW (both at least partially)?

WilliamVaughan
04-02-2010, 01:32 PM
The list could go on forever...here are a few that I woud put in my best:

>Jimmy Neutron- 1st feature animated movie to be created in Off the Shelf Software

>Titanic- The LW crew at DD pulled off some amazing work on oneof the largest movies

>Fifth Element- One of my favorite all time Sci-fi movies

>Blade- Cool Vampire Deaths

>Finding Nemo and other Pixar movies that LW was used on

>HellBoy

>Immortel

>Serious Sam

>Doom 3

>Gorillaz Videos

>405 the Movie

>f8

>Ghost in the Shell 2

.....

I could keep going but these are what come to mind....

realgray
04-02-2010, 02:31 PM
The Ruins
Alice in Wonderland
Jumper

Would love to hear about how lightwave was used in Alice. Also would be cool to see stuff on repo men. This was all I could find.

http://www.theeffectslab.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=114137&sid=c085a80b0ad5459958a1bdfb9acbfeac

realgray
04-02-2010, 02:51 PM
Oh and I love the Lightwave work on Pan's Labyrinth. I think I remember reading how the end scene of the throne room was Lightwave/Fprime. Really inspiring

sampei
04-02-2010, 04:37 PM
>Finding Nemo and other Pixar movies that LW was used on

I didn't know they used LW consistently, this is actually the best news I've heard in a while :thumbsup:

shrox
04-02-2010, 04:47 PM
Designing model rockets. I use Lightwave in my job at Quest Aerospace (the very one from Spiderman) to design the rockets, and to do all the packaging and print work, as well as animations. Busy busy.

NanoGator
04-02-2010, 06:00 PM
I don't know what specifically Newtek is referring to on their site, I don't think it's me, but I can tell you that I used LW *lightly* on Alice in Wonderland. We built pre-viz environments that were matched in scale to the live-action sets in order to provide real time compositing of the blue/green screen with the actors on the set. I don't want to give the wrong idea here, most of the work was done in Maya, but I did model some of the pieces in Modeler because the Set Dec people would give me precise measurements to follow. Modeler's handling of units like 5cm + .5" made it very easy to nail down the exact details that would line up with the live action set on the day. I also used it to perform 'additive baking', which ... well that'd take me a paragraph or two to explain. Let's just leave it at it helped me solve a huge lighting problem in MotionBuilder without taking more than an hour to set up and render. If anybody's really really curious I'll post what I wrote on CGTalk about it, here. This helped make filling in the greenscreen in real time a lot nicer. I'll state again, though, that the Lightwave use here was not nearly as extensive as it was on Avatar.

I was also hired to convert a scene from Maya to Lightwave for a couple of shots in post by a guy that does matte paintings for movies. The idea was to do the matte painting then project it onto geometry for rendering. I don't know if that ended up getting final'd or not. (I still got paid! :D) I know of at least one place that uses Lightwave for matte-painting projection quite often. That's what I did on John Adams and Tropic Thunder and a couple of other shows I can't name right now. There are also a million other movies that this studio worked on. It might surprise you.

I still use LW quite a bit. That's mainly where my freelance work comes from.

Elmar Moelzer
04-02-2010, 06:30 PM
A bunch of medical universities are using LightWave3D (with VoluMedic) for medical research. Saving lives is ranking very highly on my list of "good use" :)

MentalFish
04-02-2010, 06:50 PM
First of all, congratulations on the job!

I have some links and suggestions of work done in LW, but I hope you don't mind me suggesting some other things as well.

I'd like to suggest that LW related content such as Ben Vost's newsletters gets lifted up front into the spotlight of NewTek's website. Right now its only preaching to the choir so to say. Try to make a deal with sites such as CGSociety and other CG sites. Yes, yes, I know, LW bashers and so on :D Unless they educate themselves, let them stay ignorant. The benefits of LW needs to be communicated to non-LW users. It might be hard to do, but it must be done. A closer target to home, would be to get a direct involvement with Kurv and their customer base. Shouldn't be too much of a problem striking a deal there in having the news delivered as a part of the Kurv newsletter too.

Also, put me and Matt Gorner on the task of redesigning the NewTek website and the identity of the NewTek products. Without speaking on Matt's behalf, I think we can give you a good deal. Right now the NewTek site and the products, does not come across as unified or developed by one company.
http://www.newtek.com/images/menu_bar.jpg
Typography, iconography, colors and style, all head in their own direction. Of course others could do this job as well, but do believe me and Matt could do a great job as we have a passion for the product and the brand :thumbsup:


Now, on to the good work done in LW:

Movies and TV shows... what the others have said :agree:


Game projects:
Shadow of the Colossus (No mention of LW but many screenshots of LW in use):
http://www.bruno-urbain.com/resources/making_of_sotc.pdf
Perhaps it is still used to create The Last Guardian? Something for you to look into?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMxie4TNZpY
In general it seems like alot of amazing LW work is being done in Japan, be it using it as a tool or creating plugins for it.

The use of LW on Doom 3 was featured on the NT Europe site:
http://www.newtek-europe.com/UK/community/lightwave/menard/1.html
More of that stuff, but perhaps as a filmed interview with in game shots and LW in use would be great.

I guess a round of phone calls is needed to get on top of things in terms of what studios still use LW for polygonal or animation work in games.

There seems to be a few LightWave users hanging around in the Unity forums: http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aforum.unity3d.com+lightwave
... not many AAA projects to find there though.


TV related work, since others are stating the more known TV-shows, I'll promote some local work from this town (not 100% LW but elements made in LW):
http://www.gosu.no/#/Project/131


Arch viz, more local work from this town, mostly LW, but some 3DS nowadays too: http://www.mir.no/ They have been featured on the NewTek Europe site previously, perhaps its time for a new interview?


Not specifically TV shows or movies but definitely worthy of a how-2 or behind the scenes talk with the authors:
Transformer train: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2yigliim0U
Bridge collapsing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOinjz10e5Q
Flamethrower: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnzfeyc-bH4
Photorealistic jets: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4rm9l8A9dw


A great how-2 / demo of GSD (Get Shait Done), is a better sales pitch than any sort of sales-trickery. I bought HD Instance today after seeing the tutorials, testimonials and good examples of GSD :rock:

HD Instance interviews:
Kevin Kipper / Pixel Magic:
http://www.happy-digital.com/instance_interviews.php?videoClips=1
http://www.happy-digital.com/instance_interviews.php?videoClips=2
Radical 3D:
http://www.happy-digital.com/instance_interviews.php?videoClips=3
Nickelodeon (stating that LW is their main tool): EDIT: 3D tool for the cg group in the Post Prod department
http://www.happy-digital.com/instance_interviews.php?videoClips=4
Next release of LW could/should sell with a bundle of HD Instance 2?


Also, get a more up to date gallery section, and show off stuff such as the MkI Iron Man effects and the one man project The Passenger. Get on the good side with the authors to either host it or embed the videos.

In terms of unique selling points for LW, get Larry Shultz to do a sales pitch on IKBoost, he made my jaw drop by just showing off a couple of things. Its a hidden gem right under our noses!!

With no intention of cutting into Kurv's market of LW training and webinars here, I think more examples of how to use LW in a real world production scenarios is a must. Breaking up shots, rendering in passes, utilizing LW alongside Fusion, Nuke, After Effects and so on. If you want a FCP <-> LW solution similar to the one made for Maya, just give me a shout and I'll cook one together for you :thumbsup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCMn3MlFYzk

SplineGod
04-02-2010, 07:24 PM
Thanks Petter :)
I think that simply saying that LW was used in such and such a project is not the way to go. Weve been down that path and Im sure in the overall scheme of things its probably done very little to actually promote LW in a meaningful way or sell seats.
We already see every company that produces a 3d app using shots from movies, tv, videogames etc using those shots to promote their product. The funny thing is youll see the exact same shots being used to promote every 3d app out there.
Potential buyers are both saturated and jaded by it.
NT needs to show HOW LW was a solution and WHY it was used. What problem did it fix? How did it get the job done or certain aspects of the job done faster/better/cheaper etc?
Ive managed to get lots of seats of LW into lots of studios and convinced many ppl to buy it not by giving them a short list of what LW was used on. ANY app can lay claim to the same thing.
What sells LW is SHOWING it off PROPERLY.
This has always been a chronic problem NT has had in pretty much every presentation of LW Ive witnessed over the years on the web, at siggraph and other events.
As Petter pointed out...its kind of sad and embarressing when even seasoned users of LW are blown away with tools and aspects of the program that have been around for years due to lack of promotion. A few nights ago I showed LW off to Leigh Bamforth over skype. Hes a seasoned Zbrush, 3dCoat and XSI user yet it blew him away enough that he wanted a copy of the LW ASAP and I managed to get Rob to get him a copy.
Apparently LW DOES have some aspects that non LW users do find useful and exciting. Again it just has to be demonstrated properly.

MentalFish
04-02-2010, 07:28 PM
NT needs to show HOW LW was a solution and WHY it was used. What problem did it fix? How did it get the job done or certain aspects of the job done faster/better/cheaper etc?

Yes! :thumbsup:

realgray
04-02-2010, 07:44 PM
Thanks NanoGator for the info! I am super curious about what you wrote on CGtalk. Could you post a link? You did matte painting projection for John Adams and Tropic Thunder in Lightwave. That's awesome. I thought matte projection in LW was a huge pain due to the separate applications. I know of a few tutorials that have workarounds but they seemed tough. Could you shed some light on this workflow? Most of the stuff I've seen on 3d projection in Matte paintings have been for max. Would love to see what Lightwave can do.

nickdigital
04-02-2010, 08:01 PM
Nickelodeon (stating that LW is their main tool):
http://www.happy-digital.com/instance_interviews.php?videoClips=4


Just so nobody feels lied to or misled...LW is the main 3d tool for the cg group in the Post Prod department. The shows Penguins and Fanboy are done in Maya.

jasonwestmas
04-02-2010, 08:05 PM
Rendering Stills and Animation = This is LW's greatest strength. Any material surface in general can be rendered with ease and/or speed. The greatest weaknesses are that highly detailed closeups of surfaces can be difficult to emulate because LW uses a lot of Ram . Ram can be expensive if you have a render farm. (LW Rendering engine could benefit greatly if it had something like Janus plugin for render passes but without the SDK limitations).

Keyframe Animation = Hard surfaces and Single Skin Geometry/ Squash & Stretch figures animate the best in lightwave. Layered, overlapping skins that require a lot of joint and muscle deformation control are difficult to animate (Not impossible). Endomorph system works best for very subtle deformations. It's best to use joints to control major facial expressions and use endomorphs on top of that in LW 9.6 imo. Rigging, manipulator and keyframing system is solid but average in LW. There are ways to do things but good luck finding out the proper documentation.

Modeling and UV unwrapping is very precise and simple with the right plugins. (It is very incredible how many modeling plugins I have to use, never the less they are there and are free).However, I find I have to tweak geometry for a much longer period of time than in other modeling packages. This tells me that I am having to press too many buttons too frequently and switch between too many different tools too frequently when modeling and UV mapping. In the end however I do get that "hand-made" appearance/ style so I tend to not mind the extra work in some cases.

MentalFish
04-02-2010, 08:06 PM
Just so nobody feels lied to or misled...LW is the main 3d tool for the cg group in the Post Prod department. The shows Penguins and Fanboy are done in Maya.

Added that to my post.

Silkrooster
04-02-2010, 10:40 PM
The shows that I am impressed with and they are getting a bit out dated now are
The CSI series (Miami, NY and LV)
Stargate SG1 and Stargate Atlantis (Not sure on the new show, Universe)
Battlestar Galactica

I think the front web page of Newtek should have video interviews from the leading production houses that use Lightwave. The videos could show clips of the trailer where LW was used, behind the scenes view of the same clip shown in LW. Questions asked to the rep, about what they like about the program, why they need to use the program and even what they see happening down the road.
Newtek use to have a website called Newtek TV, not sure what happened to it but it certainly is not being used to it fullest potential. Why not set up a small news studio and make use of the equipment Newtek makes. Make the Newtek TV a true TV station about LW and the 3D community.
You know if Newtek made a small video whether it be a news video, an animation, or anything in between that demo reel would go a long way towards promoting the Newtek products. This is one of the things I always hear in the forums, if you want to get noticed in the 3d community you have to have a demo reel, well its time for Newtek to make a new demo reel.

shrox
04-02-2010, 10:46 PM
NASA stuff. I am redoing the "Mars Awaits" video in HD. Looks nice so far. I've lost all the other Mars stuff I did, but they and The Planetary Society probably have video copies.

fudini
04-03-2010, 01:40 AM
The entire Church of Saint Sulpice in Paris in the Davinci code was modeled in Lightwave. Good article conducted by Eyeon with great pics here:

http://www.cgfocus.com/article/story/338

http://www.cgfocus.com/article/story/338&page=4

RebelHill
04-03-2010, 04:31 AM
NT needs to show HOW LW was a solution and WHY it was used. What problem did it fix? How did it get the job done or certain aspects of the job done faster/better/cheaper etc?...

What sells LW is SHOWING it off PROPERLY.

^This

+1

oobievision
04-03-2010, 06:26 AM
The Mark I suite in IRON MAN.
The Oracle scene in 300.
....
THE PASSENGER.

what about the the use of HD instancing used in the scene where they show Leonidas looking at the Mass army of the persian empire.

jasonwestmas
04-03-2010, 08:35 AM
^This

+1

Yeah me too +6 :)

Infinite
04-03-2010, 09:00 AM
Does this count? - http://www.youtube.com/user/GregMutt

Paul Smith (Pooby on the LW forums) has a great deal of animation experience and has used Lightwave extensively on commercials for TV. Lightwave at it's best.

More here - http://www.bustykelp.com/

Kevbarnes
04-03-2010, 09:12 AM
Check out


'The Passenger'by Chris Jones. http://www.chrisj.com.au/thepassenger/


Great stuff

Infinite
04-03-2010, 09:16 AM
First of all, congratulations on the job!

Also, put me and Matt Gorner on the task of redesigning the NewTek website and the identity of the NewTek products. Without speaking on Matt's behalf, I think we can give you a good deal. Right now the NewTek site and the products, does not come across as unified or developed by one company.

Typography, iconography, colors and style, all head in their own direction. Of course others could do this job as well, but do believe me and Matt could do a great job as we have a passion for the product and the brand :thumbsup:


Also, couldn't agree with that more! :)

MooseDog
04-03-2010, 09:23 AM
.....NT needs to show HOW LW was a solution and WHY it was used. What problem did it fix? How did it get the job done or certain aspects of the job done faster/better/cheaper etc?.....What sells LW is SHOWING it off PROPERLY......Apparently LW DOES have some aspects that non LW users do find useful and exciting. Again it just has to be demonstrated properly.

:dito::dito::dito:

Infinite
04-03-2010, 09:29 AM
Also these guys - http://www.arkvfx.net/

and http://www.ten24.info/

the3dwiz
04-03-2010, 10:31 AM
Hi, not shure if the project is stopped or still is going on???
In the Game "War Devil" (Digi Guys) where some parts LW, dont know if only Modelling or more.

"http://www.gametrailers.com/game/war-devil-enigma/1379"

The Project was quiet advanced at this time(2004).

GraphXs
04-03-2010, 08:34 PM
Hi, not shure if the project is stopped or still is going on???
In the Game "War Devil" (Digi Guys) where some parts LW, dont know if only Modelling or more.

"http://www.gametrailers.com/game/war-devil-enigma/1379"

The Project was quiet advanced at this time(2004).

Ya, what happen to that game???

Anyone know if Burnout Paradise used Lightwave? Or how about the new game for PS3, by the makes of Shadow of Colossus? (SOC was made w/LW)

shrox
04-03-2010, 08:48 PM
oDDity, can the work be separated from the artist? It's great work.

Captain Obvious
04-04-2010, 11:45 AM
In the Game "War Devil" (Digi Guys) where some parts LW, dont know if only Modelling or more.
Lightwave is used for texturing, lighting and rendering at Digi-Guys (which is what I was doing there). Modeling is mostly modo and Zbrush.

Mike_RB
04-04-2010, 12:30 PM
Iron man used lw for all the rendering of the 3d mark 1 suit. See my avatar.

Mike_RB
04-05-2010, 10:25 AM
Iron man used lw for all the rendering of the 3d mark 1 suit. See my avatar.

And in HD:
http://www.theembassyvfx.com/qt/im_breakdown.html

TheDeacon
04-05-2010, 01:28 PM
First of all, congratulations on the job!

and everything you said after that]

thanks a bunch! this stuff really gives me some great ammunition to work with!

TheDeacon
04-05-2010, 01:39 PM
Thanks Petter :)
I think that simply saying that LW was used in such and such a project is not the way to go. Weve been down that path and Im sure in the overall scheme of things its probably done very little to actually promote LW in a meaningful way or sell seats.
We already see every company that produces a 3d app using shots from movies, tv, videogames etc using those shots to promote their product. The funny thing is youll see the exact same shots being used to promote every 3d app out there.
Potential buyers are both saturated and jaded by it.
NT needs to show HOW LW was a solution and WHY it was used. What problem did it fix? How did it get the job done or certain aspects of the job done faster/better/cheaper etc?
Ive managed to get lots of seats of LW into lots of studios and convinced many ppl to buy it not by giving them a short list of what LW was used on. ANY app can lay claim to the same thing.
What sells LW is SHOWING it off PROPERLY.
This has always been a chronic problem NT has had in pretty much every presentation of LW Ive witnessed over the years on the web, at siggraph and other events.
As Petter pointed out...its kind of sad and embarressing when even seasoned users of LW are blown away with tools and aspects of the program that have been around for years due to lack of promotion. A few nights ago I showed LW off to Leigh Bamforth over skype. Hes a seasoned Zbrush, 3dCoat and XSI user yet it blew him away enough that he wanted a copy of the LW ASAP and I managed to get Rob to get him a copy.
Apparently LW DOES have some aspects that non LW users do find useful and exciting. Again it just has to be demonstrated properly.

I definitely agree with you. It is about how LightWave solves the problems other apps can't (or would just take too much time and resources to) and showcasing those things that set it apart. I'd love to hear the testimonials- email them to me, or post them here! It just takes one person to start the ball rolling.

I mean, there's tons of interesting things we did on "ANTHRO" (have you seen it? check it out here (http://daveschool.com/movies/anthro/)) to save time and resources- from spinning light tricks, to custom rigs for face projection that made that short possible within the time allotted.

LightWave is an incredibly deep tool for creation- and we need to showcase just how.

Mike_RB
04-05-2010, 02:08 PM
It is about how LightWave solves the problems other apps can't (or would just take too much time and resources to) and showcasing those things that set it apart..

This isnt LW's strongest point. As the 'walls' you run into from a technical standpoint are almost always further away with the likes of maya and xsi. this might change with core, but not until there is a lot more features added (3-4 years). As far as marketing classic LW you need to push on the workflow curiosities that help it in a high turnover environment like serial television, and it's rapid zero to great looking renders. Trying to leverage LW's "can's" over other apps "can'ts" really wont work at this point.

TheDeacon
04-05-2010, 02:27 PM
This isnt LW's strongest point. As the 'walls' you run into from a technical standpoint are almost always further away with the likes of maya and xsi. this might change with core, but not until there is a lot more features added (3-4 years). As far as marketing classic LW you need to push on the workflow curiosities that help it in a high turnover environment like serial television, and it's rapid zero to great looking renders. Trying to leverage LW's "can's" over other apps "can'ts" really wont work at this point.

Understood.

Strongest point or not, it is definitely a strength...and that's the point I'm making, the fact that it is an open door for ingenuity- which is why it is able to be so effective in a tv production workflow .. amongst other uses that everyone has been so awesome at giving examples of, and have been doing before I even came here.

What's great about this discussion is that there are MANY different viewpoints as to what the strengths (and weaknesses) of this program is, and in my opinion, that's a good thing... so much to work with! so many case studies and tutorial opportunities! so much knowledge to be shared.. it's all very exciting.

zarti
04-05-2010, 02:47 PM
The entire Church of Saint Sulpice in Paris in the Davinci code was modeled in Lightwave. Good article conducted by Eyeon with great pics here:

http://www.cgfocus.com/article/story/338

http://www.cgfocus.com/article/story/338&page=4

i really like this one ... and it adds some other nuances beside of spaceships and other hi-tech imageries

RebelHill
04-05-2010, 02:55 PM
tbh... I think LWs only REAL TERMS strength is the speed that u can churn stuff out start to finish, which I think most if not all here agree on, or are saying in one way or another... and this has been for a good while what its marketing has been, vis a vis... "get it done".

So whats needed most of all imho, is a way to showcase it as fact, rather than just headline it as calim.

TheDeacon
04-05-2010, 02:57 PM
i really like this one ... and it adds some other nuances beside of spaceships and other hi-tech imageries

exactly! it's great to see different examples of CG that don't have spaceships in it... don't get me wrong... I LOVE SPACESHIPS... but I also love when you can make "invisible" VFX as well. Real world stuff like cars, and human body replacement, buildings, landscapes.. all sorts of things like that.

lardbros
04-05-2010, 05:31 PM
Please, as a request... any chance of the strapline 'get it done' being removed from all marketing. Feels very old fashioned & think the old straplines can too easily sound rubbish. No offence, but its just not slick, its very brash.

Apart from that, I love the work on:
The Passenger
300
Sin City (amazing)


Great work TheDeacon... you're doing a grand job on getting positive feedback from us lot... its almost like we enjoy using Lightwave again ;)

SplineGod
04-05-2010, 08:33 PM
Heres a short list I posted in another thread. These are the biggest reasons I use Lightwave and the reason I know that many others continue to use LW.

My top 10 List of things that make LW immediate
My experience has been as time goes on in this business that clients generally want the quality of work to go up but want it done in less time. That type of need is becoming more commonplace and the norm.
LWs fast/efficient workflow should be preserved and expanded upon at all costs. New features should be added in to this only after careful thought and consideration to fit within that workflow. This is where strong innovation would be nice. Unfortunately Ive never been paid to think about things...just PRODUCE.
Heres my top 10 list of things (in no particular order) that help give LW that IMMEDIACY...
1. Bones - they work immediately but do have added controls for strength, falloff, other deformations. Weight maps dont have to be used and can be added later.

2. Endomorphs - Model and go. Models can be added to changed, altered etc and the endomorphs are still there. You have one object with the morphs embedded. No separate objects to deal with. A part of a model can be cut off and used elsewhere and the morphs go with it.
I can also at any point in layout create an endomorph using bones, displacement maps, mdd files etc. whether created in LW or imported.
This is also true of other VMAPS assocated with the model.
I wouldnt have minded seeing the ability to have point level control in layout that we were promised before Core was announced. I keep seeing 3rd party developers do it so I know its possible.

3. Selecting in Modeler - Quick/easy selection and deselection and its the same whether in point , poly or edge mode. Just grab and move.
Lasso selection is great and I also use it to quickly select and zoom into a part of my work.
Hit the A key to fit all, lasso select, hit Shift +A to zoom in.

4. Layers in Modeler - Just as Pete mentioned...I dont need a stack and cant remember ever wishing I had one. Ive worked with many artists who generally at some point turn it off or collapse it anyways to save or free system resources. I find it easy/quick to copy or cut/paste into another layer, experiment/tweak etc and then paste back to the original layer or use as a basis to do something else.

5. Hypervoxels - They can be applied to particles, Nulls, Objects...anything with a vertex. If you cant figure out particles or dont have time to wait you can drive HV creation on a surface using textures. I can record some video of simple practical effects ( white paint poured on a black background) and easily use that to drive/create/control HVs directly on an object.

6. Textures - In LW textures can drive pretty much anything. This is especially powerful when combined with paint applications like Aura, PDPro, Mirage etc that also have a similar Get It Done workflow. I regularly import UV templates from LW into PDPro, animate on top, export the AVI file and apply it to my UV map in LW and use that texture to drive, particle birth, HVs, displacements, endomorphs, surfaces etc etc. I like being able to see it in a color channel, tweak it then copy/ paste into those other channels as well.
I like nodes too but many times they arent immediate. What they lack in immediacy they make up for in elegance.
It would be nice if LW/Core could "under the hood" create a node network paralleling what was happening with the texture layer editor at the same time and vice versa. I realize that I can use layer nodes but the overall method surround it is still slower.

7. Particles - While they lack some features like flocking or some depth for most day to day needs its quite fast. I like being able to create a stream of particles and move the collision objects around to deflect the particles and immediately see the results without having to rewind or rerun the simulation. I like being able to use edit fx to move or remove particles etc. Most of the time I dont need anything fancy, just something quick. I also like being able to use Editfx to also tweak mdd files created in LW or imported from other apps. I like the ease and immediacy of transferring animation data back and forth using mdd files.

8. Clip maps - I like being able to use procedurals, image maps etc to cut out geometry for casting shadows. Nice and easy.

9. Texture driven Endomorphs - I give this one its own category because of the sheer amount of cool effects that can be done with this method quite easily. I can achieve complex looking "particle effects" by using textures to drive different endomorphs to varying degrees. It gives me both a level of control AND immediacy that would be very difficult to do even if particles had the depth required. Combine this with endomorphs and you have a winner.

10. IKBoost. This one tool has saved my ***** on many jobs that had particularly insane schedules. This is truely an "Add 'n Go" solution. It takes about 30 seconds to take a bone rig and have it ready to animate. Its great to be able to alter a rig on the fly on a frame by frame basis. It doesnt require a ton of setup time to make sure the rig can do multiple things. The rigs are adaptive. I can also easily copy/paste/save poses/motion clips between multiple characters immediately or to/from files. I can apply both full dynamics on chains of items or the equivalent of softbodies as well. I can then easily animate on top of the dynamic solution. The way IKB handles data also makes it awesome for easily handling and manipulating mocap data. It integrates beautifully into layout seamlessly. Its easy to manipulate poses or the overall timing on poses instantly.
This was also something I showed to Leigh and he was quite impressed with the "immediacy" off it.
When I worked on one particular show we hired another animator who was familiar with LW but had also spent a lot of time rigging and animating in Maya. At first he wanted to use Maya and asked if he could. The owner of the studio (a diehard Max user) said that he would like him to try IKBoost because he was impressed with its ease of use and speed. After a week Chris (the animator) came back and said that "IKB was fastest animation system he had ever seen in any app." and that he wished someone would port it to Maya.
The last studio I worked at in LA used a combination of LW, Maya and XSI. The VFX supervisor on the project was a movie industry veteran and a diehard XSI/Maya guy. After a week and a half on the show he asked to speak to me and said that he wanted to make me lead artist (I was the last guy hired in) and also asked me to teach the other artists how to use LW ( he had never used it). He was just impressed by its immediacy just from seeing the sheer amount of shots we could kick out vs those artists using other tools. Nobody there was a newbie either.
Newtek, in the worst way, needs to distil out the essense of what it is that gives LW this immediacy and gives the artists that use it that ability to Get It Done and so their absolute best to get that into Core. Thats why people jumped into LW, not because it was "industry standard".

Lightwave isnt a cure all but no app is. Focus on what it does well and in what situations is can be a great del or an addition to other great tools. :)

In the end just show the stuff off and let the customer decide if its a good fit or not. I generally never have
much trouble showing off the tools, explaining how and when theyre a solution and making some sales. Its worked at every place Ive been employed. Also I cant remember the last time I saw a demo by anyone from NT that even came close to encapsulating these ideas and presenting them well. Most demos Ive seen have seemed intent on making LW look as amateurish as possible.
__________________

NanoGator
04-05-2010, 08:48 PM
Unit Conversion - Type math equations right in each field, including units. You can say five inches + half a centimeter and LW will sort it out.

OpenGL Display - A healthy chunk of LW's surfacing features show up just fine in OpenGL. Maya could definitely take a page from LW's example, here. Front Projection, for example, works.

Mr Rid
04-06-2010, 03:43 AM
...

I was wondering- what do you folks feel has been the best use of LightWave 3D?...

Cheap renderer for Maya.

Shiny_Mike
04-06-2010, 04:17 AM
saw this one a couple days ago, amazing job
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=132&t=861654

kevman3d
04-06-2010, 05:42 AM
One of the best examples (imho) of 3D celshading (and a cool series to boot) done with LW...

Freedom Project (http://freedom-project.jp/)


Best "use"? How about TV Commercial work?

It's not "Best animation" or "Best film" or "Best VFX", but its a great "Best use of LightWave" thing I felt worth mentioning...

"Best use of LightWave" - in the tight deadline TV advertising arena...

One of the key roles LW plays in NZ (for the very few companies who are actually using it still 8~ ) is in TV Advertising. I worked on over 48+ TVC's (plus a range of other cool production stuff) over a 5 year period for NZ TV. With some real tight deadlines (a few TVC's had 1-2 weeks from start to broadcast, others had a couple months) LW was fast and effective.

If you want one of these "few" LW-equipped companies here, check out these guys...

http://www.toybox.co.nz/

(Select Work > Animation on their site to check out stuff... I know that Pascal Party Pack and Earthcare bears are mostly (if not all) LW work).

Tight deadlines in TVC work making LW a good choice. :thumbsup:


I know this isn't the US-based Hollywood type stuff that NewTek would probably rather have so that it gives LW a high-profile in large production.

However the bread-n-butter work is 90% TVC for most small studios around the world... Most small studios of course here in NZ are not using LW (either they moved on, or they were started by freelancers and students who studied a different application - ie. get in at the education level - "plant an application, grow an industry" as they say...)

Just 2c on this one...

Mike_RB
04-06-2010, 06:44 AM
Everything on www.theembassyvfx.com other than the newest work is lw rendered and there is lots of commercial work on there. The ones not using lw are d9, star wars, and verizon.

jasonwestmas
04-06-2010, 07:50 AM
Cheap renderer for Maya.

With hopefully expensive results. ;)

MentalFish
04-06-2010, 02:44 PM
In terms of examples of projects where LW has been used, I think this is a nice one: http://www.awn.com/articles/production/r2-d2-helpful-droid-hero

But to really sell LW, I'll re-suggest ( just to make sure I have said it enough :) ) Larry S. to demo IKBoost as a focused sales pitch. That in itself can potentially push more LW copies more than any "This scene in movie X was made with LW..."

Two aspects that impressed me tremendously with IKBoost was the speed in which it get us up and running with a deforming mesh with "no rigging", and tweaking of mo-cap data (dense keyframes being smoothed out).

Elmar Moelzer
04-06-2010, 02:58 PM
I know that this does not qualify as best use of LightWave, but since I have already contributed to that one, I would like to add my favorite feature of LightWave to the liest:
Userfriendly licensing scheme. You can install it on as many computers as you want, run it anywhere. All you have is move the dongle. It is wonderful, really. Not being tied to a machine, or network is great. AND, should you ever want to move on to a different job (the kind that allows you to have a life ;) ), you can always sell the license. IMHO, all this makes the competing products look really dumb.

MentalFish
04-06-2010, 03:24 PM
:agree: A VERY big +1

I dread the day the dongle breaks or gets lost. If it does, then I'll most likely loose the majority of my commercial plugins as the developers of older plugins might not be around anymore (say 5 years down the road). If the hardware dongle was a software solution instead, it would be even more mobile than the current dongle (portable by download, usb stick...) and it could never break or get lost (unless the registration page for LW went away and all my harddrives crashed simultanously).

The argument against a software dongle would be that it can easily be duplicated and as such pirated, then again, has the hardware dongle for LW ever stopped piracy of LW? If I had a software dongle for LW I would not give it away as it would have my name associated with it. Also it would still need a serial number like the current licensing scheme.

Software dongle + serial == :boogiedow

TeZzy
04-06-2010, 03:38 PM
If you want one of these "few" LW-equipped companies here, check out these guys...

http://www.toybox.co.nz/

(Select Work > Animation on their site to check out stuff... I know that Pascal Party Pack and Earthcare bears are mostly (if not all) LW work).

Tight deadlines in TVC work making LW a good choice. :thumbsup:


Yea, most of our stuff is LW. Zbrush was used quite heavily for Earthcare and Stoneleigh Wine aswell(which is another TVC we did).

LW is indeed good for tight deadlines, oh and it's good for dealing with indecisive creatives/clients since making changes can be pretty quick. But like others have stated, you can hit walls when things get specific.

Mike_RB
04-06-2010, 04:19 PM
Found this kicking around on the hard drive. It's from the making of/suit featurette on the dvd/blu-ray.

Rendering care of LW 9.2 or 9.3 (I can't remember).

Mark1:
http://www.elementvfx.com/reel/suit_rotation_slow_h264.mov

Infinite
04-06-2010, 04:26 PM
I really, really don't mean to step on any ones toes but I would love to see how and why IK boost is so amazing? From a personal point of view, I have yet to see any realistic character rigs created in Lightwave. Ever! Messiah, perhaps.

LW might be ok for squishy cartoon characters or unrealistic things but anything more... no chance.

In XSI I have seen Pooby auto generate a basic built in body rig in a matter of seconds, let alone his own hand crafted face rigs (which are just jaw dropping!)

Max also has biped, let alone anything that Maya can do.

Lino is about the only artist I have seen pull of a good character rig in LW using just basic bones and a good solid IK setup. I am sure there is evidence of more solid rigs out there but I guess these mysterious NDA's keep us from ever seeing them! :chicken:

Pictures or it didn't happen! :hey:

jasonwestmas
04-06-2010, 04:59 PM
I really, really don't mean to step on any ones toes but I would love to see how and why IK boost is so amazing? From a personal point of view, I have yet to see any realistic character rigs created in Lightwave. Ever! Messiah, perhaps.



The only way to know is to try it on something you would consider to be realistic and try to mimic something in reality.

Infinite
04-06-2010, 05:59 PM
The only way to know is to try it on something you would consider to be realistic and try to mimic something in reality.

That's a good idea? why didn't I think of that! :dance:

jasonwestmas
04-06-2010, 06:28 PM
That's a good idea? why didn't I think of that! :dance:

Did you try it yet?

shrox
04-06-2010, 07:16 PM
I've been trying to IK a woman to walk in high heels, it's worse than me in high heels...

Infinite
04-07-2010, 02:47 AM
Did you try it yet?

Yeah I have. I tried back in '00, '01, '02,' '03, '04 etc etc I have spent, minutes, days, hours, months, trying to rig realistic characters in Lighwtave.

All a complete waste of time, you finally realize that it isn't you (the user) who is doing things wrong but that the application just can't handle it. A very time consuming lesson to learn. Then you step into another package, and your mind and ideas are set free!

Still Lightwave is rock solid at everything else, rendering, shader setups the lot. It just struggles with animating realistic characters. Messiah would have been a nice purchase for Newtek me thinks, along side FPRIME. :hey:

I even managed to pursuad SplineGod to help way back in 2004, remember that Larry? The results?.....let's just say were less than realistic.

biliousfrog
04-07-2010, 04:16 AM
As well as Pooby's work another company that uses Lightwave/XSI for TV commercials in UK/Europe is A Large Evil Corporation: http://www.evilcorp.tv/work.html

I worked on this one with them: http://www.evilcorp.tv/work/duck-lock-and-load-movie.html

The duck was created and rendered in XSI (because of the squash/stretch animation and feathers), I modelled all of the bathroom, products and packaging and it was rendered in Lightwave.

jasonwestmas
04-07-2010, 08:46 AM
Yeah I have. I tried back in '00, '01, '02,' '03, '04 etc etc I have spent, minutes, days, hours, months, trying to rig realistic characters in Lighwtave.

All a complete waste of time, you finally realize that it isn't you (the user) who is doing things wrong but that the application just can't handle it. A very time consuming lesson to learn. Then you step into another package, and your mind and ideas are set free!

Still Lightwave is rock solid at everything else, rendering, shader setups the lot. It just struggles with animating realistic characters. Messiah would have been a nice purchase for Newtek me thinks, along side FPRIME. :hey:

I even managed to pursuad SplineGod to help way back in 2004, remember that Larry? The results?.....let's just say were less than realistic.


Now I'm wondering exactly what you were trying to animate? Granted I do know some things that are over lightwave's head. But the "foundations" for realism is really not much different than a good solid rig for a squash and stretch character.

Elmar Moelzer
04-07-2010, 02:41 PM
I dread the day the dongle breaks or gets lost. If it does, then I'll most likely loose the majority of my commercial plugins as the developers of older plugins might not be around anymore (say 5 years down the road). If the hardware dongle was a software solution instead, it would be even more mobile than the current dongle (portable by download, usb stick...) and it could never break or get lost (unless the registration page for LW went away and all my harddrives crashed simultanously).

The argument against a software dongle would be that it can easily be duplicated and as such pirated, then again, has the hardware dongle for LW ever stopped piracy of LW? If I had a software dongle for LW I would not give it away as it would have my name associated with it. Also it would still need a serial number like the current licensing scheme.

Software dongle + serial ==

In 15 years, we have lost one dongle. One. Not one dongle has died on me, ever. In those 15 years I have had like 5 mainboards fry on me. I have had one license of LW installed onto about 50 computers, or things that qualify as new computers according to Autodesk. It would have been unaffordable for me to do that.
The Modo solution is the only one that is as userfriendly. Though with LW, I can minimize the app (e.g. while rendering) and then switch to another computer to continue working. From what I understand this is not possible with Modo (runs on only one machine at a time within a network).
Still the Modo system is fine. Machine bound is dead awful though.

jasonwestmas
04-07-2010, 03:15 PM
And let us not forget RebelHills incredible rigging AND tutorials for creating a realistic human rigging system.

Yeah there are techniques out there, as far as key framing it's just a matter of how much time you are willing to devote to the project along with personal skills.

VonBon
04-07-2010, 03:37 PM
im designing a realistic human character.

lol, its not there yet but its coming.
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107846

i went through RebelHills Tuts (although i haven't retained all of it)
it was informative but im hardheaded so im trying to get it to
work more for me.

once i get my work flow for Zbrush i will see how it deforms with the
displacement maps.

VonBon
04-07-2010, 03:46 PM
here is a pic of my forearm/wrist setup to get good deformations.

jem-P8
04-13-2010, 08:26 PM
In case these have not been posted
Lightwave was used for the following series.

Jimmy Neutron (along with Maya for animation)
The New Captain Scarlet (along with Maya)
Max Steel
Roughneck: The Starship Troopers Chronicles.
Seaquest
Voyager
Deep Space Nine
Enterprise
Treasure Quest (along with Max and Cinema 4D)
Solving History (along with Max and Maya)

Also a high number of Independent films have used LW
such as Everythings Eventual, Starwatch, Out of Focus are some i know since I worked on them.
Currently I am using LW along with Modo(most modeling is in Modo, with all animation and rendering in LW) to help concept out three new series, plus another indie film and a ship wreck documentry.

shrox
04-15-2010, 09:04 AM
In case these have not been posted
Lightwave was used for the following series.

Jimmy Neutron (along with Maya for animation)
The New Captain Scarlet (along with Maya)
Max Steel
Roughneck: The Starship Troopers Chronicles.
Seaquest
Voyager
Deep Space Nine
Enterprise
Treasure Quest (along with Max and Cinema 4D)
Solving History (along with Max and Maya)

Also a high number of Independent films have used LW
such as Everythings Eventual, Starwatch, Out of Focus are some i know since I worked on them.
Currently I am using LW along with Modo(most modeling is in Modo, with all animation and rendering in LW) to help concept out three new series, plus another indie film and a ship wreck documentry.

You wouldn't happen to work at Rainbow do you? Good crew there.

jem-P8
04-15-2010, 01:38 PM
You wouldn't happen to work at Rainbow do you? Good crew there.

no not anymore, I had two tours of duty there.

Once from 1997-1999, then again in 2005-2007

I work from Pixel Eight now which I started in late early 2007.

shrox
04-15-2010, 03:13 PM
no not anymore, I had two tours of duty there.

Once from 1997-1999, then again in 2005-2007

I work from Pixel Eight now which I started in late early 2007.

I was there from about 1993? to 1997.

NanoGator
04-15-2010, 03:16 PM
I've never heard of Rainbow. Where was it located? Is it still around?

lino.grandi
04-15-2010, 03:22 PM
In case these have not been posted
Lightwave was used for the following series.

Jimmy Neutron (along with Maya for animation)


Wasn't Messiah for animation?

Cageman
04-15-2010, 03:31 PM
Wasn't Messiah for animation?

The movie was, the series was not. In fact, I think the series, for a while at least, went for a complete Maya pipeline, but returned to LW for rendering.

shrox
04-15-2010, 03:34 PM
I've never heard of Rainbow. Where was it located? Is it still around?

They are in Phoenix, AZ. They still seem to be around.

SplineGod
04-15-2010, 06:12 PM
In case these have not been posted
Lightwave was used for the following series.

Jimmy Neutron (along with Maya for animation)
The New Captain Scarlet (along with Maya)
Max Steel
Roughneck: The Starship Troopers Chronicles.
Seaquest
Voyager
Deep Space Nine
Enterprise
Treasure Quest (along with Max and Cinema 4D)
Solving History (along with Max and Maya)


Also add Dan Dare, another CGI TV series to that as well and even earlier, Voltron 3d.
More recently...Untamed, Uncut on Animal Planet, Deadliest Warrior on Spike TV, Animal Armegeddon on Animal Planet, Dog Fights on History Channel and probably quite a few others.

Mr Rid
04-15-2010, 06:20 PM
...and The short-lived Weird-Ohs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzvkfUHPISY

Never saw it (doesnt look good) but I listened to the record a billion times as a kid. 84060

shrox
04-15-2010, 06:30 PM
Best use of Lightwave?

Getting me a job...

NanoGator
04-15-2010, 07:35 PM
I think Will Vinton studios used LW M&M commercials? I think?

SplineGod
04-15-2010, 11:08 PM
Theres a ton of videos out there already. Check out vfxcast.com, youtube, vimeo, etc :)

SplineGod
04-16-2010, 10:02 PM
This is really something that NT should be spearheading.
The LW gallery for example should be at the forefront of the Lightwave 3d page.
Good demonstration videos show also be immediately accessible in an obvious place right on the front page as well.
NT should have videos specifically showing off those aspects of LW that have been discussed that show off the immediacy of LW, how to get data to and from other apps, when and where LW can be a solution to workflow or certain types of problems or projects, how it can save you money or help generate money etc.
Theres already been a ton of feedback and suggestions on this so hopefully someone there at NT will pick up the ball and run with it. :)

TheDeacon
04-16-2010, 10:17 PM
This is really something that NT should be spearheading.
The LW gallery for example should be at the forefront of the Lightwave 3d page.
Good demonstration videos show also be immediately accessible in an obvious place right on the front page as well.
NT should have videos specifically showing off those aspects of LW that have been discussed that show off the immediacy of LW, how to get data to and from other apps, when and where LW can be a solution to workflow or certain types of problems or projects, how it can save you money or help generate money etc.
Theres already been a ton of feedback and suggestions on this so hopefully someone there at NT will pick up the ball and run with it. :)

workin on it!:thumbsup:

MentalFish
04-17-2010, 11:17 AM
<Tip of the day> on the LW front page, also Tweeted and Facebooked <- every weekday at least. A 5-10 minute "did you know that..." type of demoing of LWs strongpoints. Don't need to edit it, just one take, focused on one issue. There is a lot of good ones all ready made, but I would suggest that new ones to be made for a more pinpoint focus and purpose. Infomercials without the cheesy from the TV world :D

lightscape
07-14-2014, 08:28 AM
Men in Black 2
Nike TV
http://skreeek.blogspot.com/p/sample-work.html

Marander
07-14-2014, 08:59 AM
Wow lightscape, never would have guessed LW was used in MIB2, congrats on such a great job, I'm deeply impressed!

...have to watch it again soon!

chikega
07-15-2014, 06:40 AM
Very cool work, Lightscape!