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h2oStudios
03-30-2010, 08:34 PM
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/dpont/plugins/nodes/Additionnal_Nodes_2.html

Argh!:grumpy:

I went and tried to get meself the Dpkit, but it seems that dpont's pages are down or am I mistaken?

If so is there anywhere else I can find them? <- EDIT: just realized that that was one of the reasons why they're not up anymore. Didn't know that they were non-redistro.

geothefaust
03-30-2010, 08:38 PM
Unfortunately his page is down, because someone violated the EULA for his plug ins, I hear there may be more to the situation, but I am not aware of it.


I do hope that at some point Denis will be able to bring his page back up so that he may distribute his plug ins either for free or for sale.

h2oStudios
03-30-2010, 08:46 PM
F**k... That's great :(. Argh!

Matt
03-30-2010, 08:49 PM
I get the feeling this topic is going to keep cropping up for some time!

probiner
03-30-2010, 09:10 PM
Of course, people have been rellying in dennis plugins to do things that LW can't do nativly, so there will be always someone asking for them...

I never saw his EULA, it has to do with commercial use right?

It's a real shame.

Cheers

Edit: corrected, djlithium

djlithium
03-30-2010, 09:23 PM
Actually his EULA has only one real request in it, please don't redistribute them. That and his credit for the code. Not exactly hard stuff to understand or obey.

And in your post did you mean "can" or "can't" do? I use his light kit stuff all the time and its more of a "can't do", even if there might be a way to do it its a "can't do it this fast and or with this quality and or this speedy" - but thats only because NT doesn't have those tools themselves but in their wisdom they did make it possible for a 3rd party developer to do this, and Denis went to town - so props for NT for making it possible in the changes for the 9.6 SDK (the best feature improvements out of the entire 9.x cylce really) and for Denis for observing what users needed and delivering as much as he could on his own and putting them out for nothing. Amazing. Just think about what he could do with a few more specific SDK tweaks. Blows the mind. The impossible becomes possible. Code base be dammed.

inquisitive
03-30-2010, 10:24 PM
I get the feeling this topic is going to keep cropping up for some time!

I was looking for the MDD Pointer plugin myself
Edit: I guess I already have it and didnt know it :) - its part of DPKit

h2oStudios
03-30-2010, 10:44 PM
GGGRrrrrrr :grumpy: I swore that at some point I had actually DLed them, and now after searching my exa-f**king-stensive 3 HD archive del la CG, there's isn't a trace. maybe I thought of getting them and never actually did. :grumpy:. As far as I know they were still available less then a month ago, I think.


I was looking for the MDD Pointer plugin myself
Edit: I guess I already have it and didnt know it :) - its part of DPKit

Oh, how nice of you to rub that in my face. :devil::D

h2oStudios
03-31-2010, 12:08 AM
WOW... I just read some of the craziness in the Node Dev section... Dude shut down his whole op just because someone posted (and immediately removed... seemed he was just trying to help without initially thinking about the EULA) Dpont's plug. Man, that's crazy. I guess he was pretty pissed. Kind of sucks for me - not getting those plugs when I could have, now that I actually require them. Life's a biatch.

Anyways, sucks to hear that another great contributor has left the LW building...

LAV
03-31-2010, 01:36 AM
First of all a great thank to the best coder in the LW world.
I remember when I asked him for a solution (about Ior) not implemented in LW. Less than 24h later, I had the plug...

I hope Dennis should think about his decision. We need DPplugs.

probiner
03-31-2010, 01:47 AM
the irony is, since the page is down, ppl will want to redistribute them more... -_-'

lillmagnus
03-31-2010, 02:15 AM
Thats sad. I kept going to his websiteadress, hoping it would be back up and that it was just a temporary server problem or something.

Now I wish I didn't know about Dpkit instead.

Astralworkz
03-31-2010, 03:31 AM
I've got some server space and bandwidth for free, if that helps?
contact me by PM, I can also get some domain name for a price of peanuts for a year.

h2oStudios
03-31-2010, 03:33 AM
From what I read in the previous (and new to me) threads on this situation, I agree that redistro of dpont's plugs is only going to add insult to "injury?" so to speak. Even behind "closed doors". I mean, granted, I sure wish I had gotten them when I had the chance, but the guy seems to have taken it pretty serious. I also agree in regards to the notion that the rest of us in the LW community bagging about it is probs not the best bandage or remedy. I, unfortunately, also have similar feelings to lillmagnus about not knowing about the plug-kit to begin with (ignorance would blisstify the lack of). Had I been more patient and dug into those threads before posting this one I would have answered my own question to begin with.

No need to whip a dead horse. Didn't realize that this was an already ongoing "grievance".

Astralworkz
03-31-2010, 03:40 AM
Didn't realize he's gone(and his plugs) because of some "issues" he encountered, bollocks!. So another great developer abandoned the ship, cool. Maybe the Newtek will hire him(please.please...)?

Edit:
So,he's gone because someone redistributed his plugins?C'mon, I don't think that person meant any harm, I would also be pissed off if I were him, however don't you think that Dennis is overreacting a bit?

Matt
03-31-2010, 04:12 AM
Let's move on, I'm pretty sure Denis is not enjoying all this speculation and talk, in fact, the more the rumors fly, the harder it makes it for him to come back to the fold (should he wish to).

Astralworkz
03-31-2010, 05:11 AM
Let's move on, I'm pretty sure Denis is not enjoying all this speculation and talk, in fact, the more the rumors fly, the harder it makes it for him to come back to the fold (should he wish to).

Yup, But if he will decide to come back, my offer with free server/domain still applies.

Best
Eric

GandB
03-31-2010, 06:30 AM
What did/do his plug-ins do? I am unfamiliar with them.

I guess this goes to show that EULAs are not a joke, and should be honored.

-Keith

serge
03-31-2010, 06:57 AM
... don't you think that Dennis is overreacting a bit?
For me, Denis has built up enough credit over the years to do as he pleases. He greatly improved Lightwave for us for free. He only asks us not to distribute his plugins. Somebody made a mistake and Denis put down his website. I can understand that people think this is quite harsh, but it's probably the best way to send this message to the whole community.

I'm confident dat Denis will come back. He makes plugins because he enjoys it.

Another important thing. I believe for Denis to keep on enjoying his work there should be more testing and feet back when a new plugin or new version is released. Please try to make some time for this.

Weetos
03-31-2010, 07:42 AM
I'd add to the offers already made by other users : a database driven website with plugin versionning management and rss feeds to help people know about new versions of his plugins

This is not much value compared to Denis' work, but this would be a way for me to thank Denis for his amazing plugins. plus the rss feed could be useful to many users I guess.

Please Denis, pretty please *begs on his knees" :bowdown:

-EsHrA-
03-31-2010, 08:22 AM
wwwhat?!!... .. .

denis gone??!.. .

i could come up with so many questions and remarks but i won't.

thank you denis for your massive effort and personal help without it my 'chanlum' plugin would never see the light of day as it is now.

if i can help let me know and if the community can (should) help in any way let 'them' know.


respect.


mlon

Skonk
03-31-2010, 10:00 AM
The impression I get from this whole site down thing is that the plugins became too popular so he was spending more time than he wanted trying to support them.

He needed an excuse to drop the whole thing and someone inadvertently gave him one.

dandeentremont
03-31-2010, 10:31 AM
Denis giveth and Denis taketh away. :sadface:

Dexter2999
03-31-2010, 11:19 AM
Maybe it is an excuse.

Or maybe the guy puts in who knows how many hours to make really usefull plug ins just to give them away for free and all he asks is for one thing. ONE FREAKIN' THING! And apparently he can't even get that. What's the point? His work has certainly gained him accolades, but what is that if you don't honor and respect his request? I bet it would feel like a slap in face were I in his position.

Hate to see him go. Especially over something that was a well intentioned mistake and not malicious at all. Hope he comes back.

That is all.

Greenlaw
03-31-2010, 11:20 AM
Yes, this is a tragic circumstance. At the Box, we depend on a lot of the DP tools, and Denis's contributions played a major part in extending the life of LightWave for us. His work is not only going to be missed, it's going to be, as my toddler daughter would put it, "very ouchie." :(

Denis! Please come back!

COBRASoft
03-31-2010, 12:41 PM
I don't think he's gone. He answered in another thread today about one of his plugins. Perhaps his site is just down due to some unknown reason.

Anyhow, his plugins rock :).

UltraViolet
03-31-2010, 12:52 PM
Yup, But if he will decide to come back, my offer with free server/domain still applies.

Same here ...

If he has hosting difficulties, I can help, I have unlimited web space with lots of bandwidth :)

monovich
03-31-2010, 12:59 PM
I can't believe he is gone forever. Its just not possible. Space and time would cease to exist. Black holes would spontaneously appear and destroy entire galaxies.

If Denis is really gone, the end is near.

Cageman
03-31-2010, 02:27 PM
Yes, this is a tragic circumstance. At the Box, we depend on a lot of the DP tools, and Denis's contributions played a major part in extending the life of LightWave for us. His work is not only going to be missed, it's going to be, as my toddler daughter would put it, "very ouchie." :(

Denis! Please come back!

I agree!

Here at Massive, DPonts tools have made a huge impact on the way I can use LW to solve things quite easily, and thus also have raized quite a few eyebrowes from those who have thought LW was way more limited than what it is because of his tools.

I sincerely hope he will come back and maybe also concider working with someone who can host his webpage free of charge.

geothefaust
03-31-2010, 11:16 PM
I would be happy to host the plugins on my domain, and create an account for Denis to use, where he could post updates into main news page, and also as many dedicated pages as he would need to run it.


All definitely free of charge of course! :)

praa
04-01-2010, 12:07 AM
the situation is... mental (pun intended)

seing stuff like that and other plugins that are abandoned by other developpers
there may only be 2 ways to go....
open source (blender)
or pay for an aggregation of everything (autodesk...)

LW is a middle ground but still... it relies SOOOO heavily on 3rd party plugins... it is scary

allez Denis bordel, un ricloche et on se calme

a+

wsi
04-01-2010, 02:18 AM
People are people and they make mistakes.
And they always think someone will forgive their mistakes just for the sake of it.

jrandom
04-01-2010, 11:28 AM
Wait... they guy throws a fit and takes down his page because someone gave someone else his free plugin?

I guess I just don't understand the logic behind that.

Kuzey
04-01-2010, 11:41 AM
Wait... they guy throws a fit and takes down his page because someone gave someone else his free plugin?

I guess I just don't understand the logic behind that.

I think it might have been the last straw as they say and not based on a one off indecent.

Kuzey

jrandom
04-01-2010, 11:50 AM
I think it might have been the last straw as they say and not based on a one off indecent.

If this is the case...

I use the DPLights quite a bit and I'm seeing that others heavily rely on some of his other plugins. Having them yanked is having one heck of a detrimental impact.

What we need is an open-source version of these that won't just vanish at the whims of a single person.

I'm a coder by trade and by hobby but I don't have the necessary math background. If others care to pitch in, I'd be all for learning the Lightwave plugin dev process so we can build replacements for the DP plugins with fully-available source code for anyone who wants it.

Step one would be to compile a list of the most-used functionality (I've only used the lights so I don't know what else others use the most).

Once I have that list I can figure out what kind of math/3D knowledge base we'll have to build so I can start writing the code.

Always wanted to learn how to make 3D plugins... :)

Edit: I'm running Lightwave 9.6 32-bit on a Mac, so I'll need help in compiling 64-bit Windows versions. If the 9.6.1 64-bit beta can be installed separately from 9.6 then I can also do the 64-bit Mac compiles as well.

silviotoledo
04-01-2010, 06:03 PM
Latest News:

Autodesk bought Dennis Plugins and will release
SUPER 3D Max Nodal 2010

Wickster
04-01-2010, 06:07 PM
Give the guy some room to breath and let's not speculate anything anymore. the site will be back before we know it. :)

ingo
04-02-2010, 03:30 AM
Give the guy some room to breath and let's not speculate anything anymore. the site will be back before we know it. :)

How about that this guy gives us a short notice about what happend, that would stop speculations. Despite all the good things Denis had done in the past, just shutting down the website without any notice is not a good business behaviour. Just my 2cents...

3DGFXStudios
04-02-2010, 03:36 AM
Is there already a mac64 dpkit?

It's a shame they shutdown Denis his site :(

Tartiflette
04-02-2010, 05:46 AM
How about that this guy gives us a short notice about what happend, that would stop speculations. Despite all the good things Denis had done in the past, just shutting down the website without any notice is not a good business behaviour. Just my 2cents...
But, and you may have not noticed it, it wasn't a business as Denis was giving his plugins absolutely for free, without asking for anything, and giving support almost no other plugin developer, be it free or not, could dream of. :bowdown:

Anyway, enough speculation, and worst, bad comments about someone who has done so much for LightWave's community ! :screwy:


Cheers,
Laurent aka Tartiflette :)

caccipergolo
04-02-2010, 06:09 AM
Probably some good news:
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107905

alexos
04-02-2010, 07:14 AM
I've been using DPKit and lights and stuff as well, and if monsieur Pontonnier doesn't come back I'll be a very sad panda indeed, but you know what? It's *his* bloody plug-ins with his ideas behind them; he has every right to go and pull the entire website without notice, for whatever reason, and he doesn't have to explain anything to anyone. It is really that simple and I certainly won't think less of him because of this.


ADP.

GandB
04-02-2010, 07:31 AM
What did/do his plug-ins do? I am unfamiliar with them.

Anybody?

OnlineRender
04-02-2010, 07:33 AM
Anybody?

alot

h2oStudios
04-02-2010, 07:36 AM
I've been using DPKit and lights and stuff as well, and if monsieur Pontonnier doesn't come back I'll be a very sad panda indeed, but you know what? It's *his* bloody plug-ins with his ideas behind them; he has every right to go and pull the entire website without notice, for whatever reason, and he doesn't have to explain anything to anyone. It is really that simple and I certainly won't think less of him because of this.


ADP.

Really?

GandB
04-02-2010, 09:02 AM
alot

Thanks; that was an in-depth reply.

m0184you
04-02-2010, 10:56 AM
Denis, please come back!

Your plugins + your support/tips + Gerardo testing/tricks = priceless!

jrandom
04-02-2010, 11:00 AM
I still think we need some good solid free (w/ source code) plugins that do these things and I stand by my offer to help develop them.

(What if dpont gets hit by a bus tomorrow? It's kinda scary having this kind of single-point-of-failure.)

3DGFXStudios
04-02-2010, 11:03 AM
Does no one know if there are already mac64 bit plugins?

jrandom
04-02-2010, 11:04 AM
Does no one know if there are already mac64 bit plugins?

I haven't seen any. I should probably get my rear in gear and install 9.6.1 so I'll be ready for when they start appearing.

3DGFXStudios
04-02-2010, 11:07 AM
I haven't seen any. I should probably get my rear in gear and install 9.6.1 so I'll be ready for when they start appearing.

ok thanks. I hope they will be there soon :D I switched to mac and now I'm missing a lot of plugins. Very painful. I can't open a lot of scenes with the 32bit version :(

m0184you
04-02-2010, 11:12 AM
What if I never touch my keyboard again and go to fishing ...

Denis was, I mean he is one great, free, resource, support man so I don't want to see him go away just like that.

If somebody want's to do similar stuff like Denis, fine by me!

jasonwestmas
04-02-2010, 11:14 AM
He'll be back.

m0184you
04-02-2010, 11:14 AM
I know! :)

jrandom
04-02-2010, 11:26 AM
I need a good starting point so I know where to focus my efforts. What dpont plugins are the most useful for you?

GandB
04-02-2010, 11:30 AM
I don't even know where to look for them, or what any of them do.

philippe
04-02-2010, 11:59 AM
Whatever happen in the future, THANKS a lot for your great plugins Denis :thumbsup:,
Merci beaucoup monsieur :)

geothefaust
04-02-2010, 12:27 PM
I don't even know where to look for them, or what any of them do.

Well, I can only speak to the ones I use regularly.


One allows you to use nodes in the motion panel. Thus allowing for complex rigging.

Another one allows you to use MDD files (haven't used it much, only experimented with it).

One has a really complex render buffer system.

Ahhh, what else...? Man there are many.

Andyjaggy
04-02-2010, 12:29 PM
Wow, that's lame. Sucks for the LW community. This is why I hate relying on plugins to do things that should be built in................................................ ................

GandB
04-02-2010, 12:31 PM
Thanks for trying to explain what these plugs do, Geo; I appreciate it. ;)

-Keith

serge
04-02-2010, 12:56 PM
Thanks; that was an in-depth reply.
There's really too much to give an in depth report.

The "DPkit" is the most popular I guess, which contains a large amount of shaders and tools that can be used in the surface and displacement node editors.

My personal favorite and invaluable for my work is the MDD pointer node, with which we can load MDD files inside the displacement node editor.

There's the Rman shader collection with a large amount of procedural textures for the old surface system (but can be accessed through the nodal surface editor). Just an example: Particle Paint, a great tool with which we can paint objects based on the contact with particles.

Through the node texture editor it's possible to use nodes with every Layout tool that has a "T" (texture) button next to it.

There's Node Item Motion, a very useful node editor for motions.

A node editor for Hypervoxels.

Post processing editing tools, Pixel filter, Image filter, ...

New lights.

....

I'm sure I forgot several others, but really, there just so much, and I'm positive that many people, including me, have decided to stick with Lightwave because of his plugins. So, he's not only important for us, but for Newtek as well.

jasonwestmas
04-02-2010, 01:13 PM
It seems that most of the nodal development that I thought would be flourishing by now for LW9.x has all been done mostly by people like Dpont. I don't recall any 3rd party commercial NODES other than IFW nodes and Myagi. (Maybe someone can enlighten me). That's disturbing to me if I were to put stock into Lightwave. I am greatful for what I do get free or not free with lightwave.

serge
04-02-2010, 01:15 PM
Wait... the guy throws a fit and takes down his page because someone gave someone else his free plugin?.
He's not a guy, he's a god. :D ;)

GandB
04-02-2010, 01:28 PM
Thanks Serge. ;)

Myagi
04-02-2010, 02:18 PM
It seems that most of the nodal development that I thought would be flourishing by now for LW9.x has all been done mostly by people like Dpont. I don't recall any 3rd party commercial NODES other than IFW nodes and Myagi. (Maybe someone can enlighten me). That's disturbing to me if I were to put stock into Lightwave. I am greatful for what I do get free or not free with lightwave.

While the mention is nice, I really haven't done any node developement :)

The nodes that are included in my plugin are just clones of a few basic built-in LW nodes and add no new functionality, they only exist as a workaround because their regular counterparts didn't evaluate UV/vertex mapping inside modeler (which my plugin needs to do).

jasonwestmas
04-02-2010, 02:52 PM
While the mention is nice, I really haven't done any node developement :)

The nodes that are included in my plugin are just clones of a few basic built-in LW nodes and add no new functionality, they only exist as a workaround because their regular counterparts didn't evaluate UV/vertex mapping inside modeler (which my plugin needs to do).

Well I appreciate the effort regardless. :) It's a rare thing, it seems.

JBT27
04-02-2010, 03:34 PM
I still think we need some good solid free (w/ source code) plugins that do these things and I stand by my offer to help develop them.

(What if dpont gets hit by a bus tomorrow? It's kinda scary having this kind of single-point-of-failure.)

Unfortunately that's a universal problem for individuals who are talented and doing a job pretty much solo that alot of people come to rely on.

I've thought the same thing about Viktor, with LWCAD, and Graham with HDInstance, Russ Andersen with Syntheyes, and probably many, many others, including those indespensable people within large corporates like AD.

In any case, hope for their sake and their families it doesn't happen, never mind all of us :D

Julian.

JBT27
04-02-2010, 03:38 PM
Wow, that's lame. Sucks for the LW community. This is why I hate relying on plugins to do things that should be built in................................................ ................

Well, hopefully, NT really do listen and take note of all those fabulous plugins, and especially the reliance many have on some or all of Denis' fabulous plugins.

Realistically the functionality should be built in, and the innovation of these developers is something NT needs to take note of and learn from, as well as the rest of us wanting this in the primary package.

No-brainer really, isn't it?

Julian.

Andyjaggy
04-02-2010, 04:12 PM
Well who knows what Core will bring, and I'll probably never find out as I have no intention of ever using it......... I've pretty much moved on at this point, in fact I'm not even sure why I still come to this forum.

jrandom
04-02-2010, 04:17 PM
Well who knows what Core will bring, and I'll probably never find out as I have no intention of ever using it......... I've pretty much moved on at this point, in fact I'm not even sure why I still come to this forum.

What have you moved on to? I was originally considering Maya, but Lightwave was cheaper and renders faster.

Andyjaggy
04-02-2010, 04:22 PM
3D Max + Modo

mikala
04-02-2010, 07:52 PM
My condolences.

MentalFish
04-02-2010, 07:56 PM
My condolences.

:ohmy: too funny! But still, respect to anyone who freely chooses to use 3DS Max :D

shrox
04-02-2010, 09:16 PM
:ohmy: too funny! But still, respect to anyone who freely chooses to use 3DS Max :D

3DWack.

evolross
04-03-2010, 01:18 AM
I find it very odd and irrational that Denis took his site down over one person making a mistake. It really sounds like he's trying to martyr himself and as others have mentioned, drum up an excuse for an exodus. If that's the case, just come out and voice yourself to your community and say "Hey, thanks for everything, I'm moving on." It's strange.

I have a ton of respect and admiration for the man's work. Seriously, much respect. But hey, I'd call the Pope out if he was acting like a little baby. We didn't know that there was one unforgivable sin.

Now... can someone please email me the plugins!

Just kidding Denis :) I downloaded them pre-meltdown.

inquisitive
04-03-2010, 01:48 AM
The issue as i see it is that comments like evolross and others are not really helping this issue instead imho are making it worse.

They are his plugins, he has providing them for free, has specific requirements and people violate them (I actually just bumped into some other site that has a few of his plugins for download - and they charge $$ to download content).

I think he is on his right to pull the plug so to speak.

What surprises me is that those of you that claim to use the plugins everyday have not come forth and offer some $$$ to Denis (or maybe you have and are not advertising it). I am sure that would get his attention a lot faster :)

Personally I became interested in his plugins due to pooby's mention of MDD_Pointer when he described his process for Greg Mutt creation. Frankly the more I google his name / plugins, the more interesting posts I find... like this one.

http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?p=212442#post212442

Now I wish I had downloaded them recently so I would have the latest and greatest.

JBT27
04-03-2010, 03:17 AM
Dig around - people did offer to pay - I did. Just mentioned in passing in some thread. I can't remember what Denis's response was, but clearly he chose not to.

But the general sentiment, that this kind of thing can make LW a bit of a knife-edge to walk along sometimes, is quite true. But that problem is fairly and squarely for NT to address.

I bought into CORE, but right now, I can't seriously see if they're going to pull it off or not.

If we had sufficient funds, we might well have looked at Max recently. But for our required two licenses plus plugins I would want, I think I got it to around an 8K spend ..... and that ain't gonna happen :D

Julian.

JBT27
04-03-2010, 03:22 AM
:ohmy: too funny! But still, respect to anyone who freely chooses to use 3DS Max :D

Respect to a huge chunk of the industry then ..... poor sods obviously don't know what they're doing :D

Julian.

cresshead
04-03-2010, 03:32 AM
:ohmy: too funny! But still, respect to anyone who freely chooses to use 3DS Max :D

3dsmax is a stunning all rounder...i use that, zbrush and lightwave:thumbsup:

okay, back on topic>>:goodluck:

ingo
04-03-2010, 03:36 AM
3dsmax is a stunning all rounder...

Yeah i agree, especially the Mac OSX version :santa:

Red_Oddity
04-03-2010, 04:06 AM
I for one wish LW (and Maya) came with half the plugins Max comes with, there's some really amazing plugins there that do some really incredible stuff really fast (Krakatoa, Fume FX and other plugs by Sitni Sati, Rayfire, anything from Cebas, etc)

Too bad we already invested a lot in our current pipeline and none in our studio can really get around in Max.

MentalFish
04-03-2010, 06:50 AM
I for one wish LW (and Maya) came with half the plugins Max comes with, there's some really amazing plugins there that do some really incredible stuff really fast (Krakatoa, Fume FX and other plugs by Sitni Sati, Rayfire, anything from Cebas, etc)

Yes, the 3DS Max market is the place to be for any 3rd party developer. Biggest market and customers that are used to buying plugins to get around, kind of the same as us lot, just many more of them :D

-EsHrA-
04-03-2010, 09:03 AM
correct,

i just hope nt realizes their revenue could be so much higher with a different strategy.

jrandom
04-03-2010, 09:33 AM
I think he is on his right to pull the plug so to speak.

The trouble here is once you create something that others rely upon, you take on a greater responsibility. While Dennis has every right to pull his work, he is doing a large disservice to the rest of the community and that's petty of him and unfair to them.

To get upset that people were sharing his free plugins is just silly. It borders on Monty Python.

JBT27
04-03-2010, 09:40 AM
I for one wish LW (and Maya) came with half the plugins Max comes with, there's some really amazing plugins there that do some really incredible stuff really fast (Krakatoa, Fume FX and other plugs by Sitni Sati, Rayfire, anything from Cebas, etc)

Too bad we already invested a lot in our current pipeline and none in our studio can really get around in Max.

So what is it, conversely, that people hate so much about Max? Or is it AD mostly? Or do we see that more here because this is the perceived underdog forum?

Likewise, that said, same here - too much time and money invested in LW - especially time. But if sufficient jobs and funds develop, we may well be looking at Max.

In some ways this thing with Denis' plugins disappearing, and my belief that CORE is going to take a very long time to reach mature (years), just pushes us that much nearer.

Julian.

Julian.

OnlineRender
04-03-2010, 09:44 AM
3dsmax is a stunning all rounder...i use that, zbrush and lightwave:thumbsup:

okay, back on topic>>:goodluck:

Same , but you missed out 1 thing "kinda important " Blender

JBT27
04-03-2010, 09:54 AM
The trouble here is once you create something that others rely upon, you take on a greater responsibility. While Dennis has every right to pull his work, he is doing a large disservice to the rest of the community and that's petty of him and unfair to them.

To get upset that people were sharing his free plugins is just silly. It borders on Monty Python.

Which is very true - I mentioned that elsewhere, and the moreso in the event the plugins were charged for.

It's a tough call though. I guess if you are talented and confident enough to develop such plugins, then maybe the smart question to oneself is do you regard it as a business opportunity, even on the side, and maintain that development? If you think you may not be continuing them at some point, at least let the userbase know, and either offer the code to someone else or ..... well, whatever.

Stuff like this, the holes in LW, and the slow development of CORE just sow the seeds ..... as if there wasn't enough dissent about LW already.

Julian.

mikala
04-03-2010, 10:29 AM
The responsibility is on those that use the plugin not the developer that has upped it for free. Such arrogance is stunning. I'm surprised most of you ingrates have not had all of the good free stuff pulled because of your "gimme" attitude.

Dexter2999
04-03-2010, 11:08 AM
I think there are a few things wrong with what I am reading here in this thread. And they are the same kinds of things I see in everyday life here in the US.

One is that some are almost indignant that he should pull his site. Like somehow everyone is entitled to what he has freely given. Let's get something straight, he doesn't owe anyone anything. If you were lucky enough to get his plug in's great. If you weren't, too bad. If you got them and they don't work they way you want them to, too bad.
This community seems to take liberties and doesn't mind loading people down with work. Denis routinely supported these plug ins (which he didn't have to do). I see the same kind of thing with Matt and his themes. Take advantage of a persons passions much?

If Denis did charge for the plug ins then he would probably feel bound to support them. Now doing something because you want to and doing something because you feel you have to are not the same thing.

Life doesn't owe anyone in this community jack s#!t and neither does Denis. His departure is a loss that should be saddening but anyone who is angered by it needs a heavy dose of reality check.

Lightwolf
04-03-2010, 11:41 AM
His departure is a loss that should be saddening but anyone who is angered by it needs a heavy dose of reality check.
And it's not a permanent departure either. Let's give him some time to sort things out, whatever they may be.

Cheers,
Mike

OnlineRender
04-03-2010, 12:20 PM
people read wa..........................y to much into things !

Shiny_Mike
04-04-2010, 03:50 AM
Denis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIAnkrPgTvY

blondimage
04-04-2010, 06:01 AM
Dennis. I've used some of your plugs a bit and much appreciate your input.

Forgive us this Easter, even those nonses on this thread for they know not what they speak. :)

Chris S. (Fez)
04-04-2010, 07:34 AM
I started a side "beer money" venture a couple years ago which has grown from a garage gorilla operation into a vaguely bustling small business.

We occasionally donate products and services to charity auctions and non-profits...with the condition that we get credit for the donation. That credit serves not to swell our egos but as advertisement. That demand may sound selfish to some of you, but we honestly can't afford to offer stuff for FREE.

Do developers like Denis, who offer plugs strictly for free, do so purely for the glory/babes or because it also serves as advertisement for their coding services?

Andyjaggy
04-04-2010, 08:47 AM
My condolences.

Yeah the few 1,000 remaining LW users must know something that the other 98% of the 3D world just doesn't get. Pretty much everyone has abandoned LW for a reason, some are just too big of fanboys to realize what that reason is.

There isn't a single thing in Lightwave that I can't do easier and less painfully in 3d Max. It's great to actually enjoy doing 3D again instead of working around LW oddities.

VonBon
04-04-2010, 09:08 AM
lol, did you ever figure out why you keep coming back.

im a Fanboy, but im also a Fan of 3D. One thing people fail to realize
is that AD owns the majority of the 3D market. its never good for the
consumer when a product is monopolized by a single company.

its our responsibility to make sure we the consumer have an option
and fuel innovation by making sure that no one company can control
the whole 3D market.

OnlineRender
04-04-2010, 09:12 AM
I'm what you would call LW FANBOY" although MAx is my app " I dont know what it is about LW / NT maybe it's the communinity feel or even there corporative ethics ,although lately I have personally feel this is becoming less and less but for some strang reason LW is just LW ....
I like being on the underdogs side !

MentalFish
04-04-2010, 09:16 AM
Yeah the few 1,000 remaining LW users must know something that the other 98% of the 3D world just doesn't get. Pretty much everyone has abandoned LW for a reason, some are just too big of fanboys to realize what that reason is.

There isn't a single thing in Lightwave that I can't do easier and less painfully in 3d Max. It's great to actually enjoy doing 3D again instead of working around LW oddities.

Personally, I feel that working in 3DS Max is like poking at clay with a 10 foot pole. Then again, that might just be me, being a picky interaction designer rather than a typical 3D artist. I do want to learn Max script though, as there is a lot of potential work to land in that department compared to doodling around with LScript.

My 3D needs can be fulfilled in LW with any/all of its flaws and limitations (me being the biggest limitation right now), so until LW can not do what I need it to do, it will be my tool of choice. Right now, alternatives to LW would be C4D for being artist friendly, Blender for its price and rapidly growing feature list or Houdini for its limitless capabilities.

Modo is not an option until it stops feeling sluggish (on Mac), and getting support for bones animation, but I am definitely keeping an eye on it.

To make this relevant to the thread, tools such as DPKit and the DP Lights extends the life of LW for me so I don't need to look elsewhere for an immediate replacement.

VonBon
04-04-2010, 09:26 AM
as for Dpont, i've never used your tools but im interested now since i
see that they are very important to alot of people.

to be honest, he should just sell them, and those who use his tools
should buy them. if the community decides its important enough then
we should finance it, can't expect him to keep doing it for nothing.
even though he may be that type of person, the world we live in will
not allow him to keep doing this for FREE.

so yea, im sure he was pissed when someone did the one thing he asked
them not to do, even if it was an honest mistake, he'll never know the
truth for himself so he had to make a decision.

so, i got a question. How much is his kit worth to you? :hijack:

even he doesn't want to know, i want to know.

jay3d
04-04-2010, 09:26 AM
Yeah the few 1,000 remaining LW users must know something that the other 98% of the 3D world just doesn't get. Pretty much everyone has abandoned LW for a reason, some are just too big of fanboys to realize what that reason is.

There isn't a single thing in Lightwave that I can't do easier and less painfully in 3d Max. It's great to actually enjoy doing 3D again instead of working around LW oddities.

Isn't the age of 3D software marriage gone already?

Again .. u drive the software, it's only YOU, there's no magical big red button that do everything.

nowadays professionals use a variety of software to get something done,
sticking to one software is this day and age is utter nonsense.

if u buy a car, u c'not cut ur legs off, cuz sometimes u need to walk.

back to topic; Denis has the full right to do anything he want with his plugins, he c'not be blamed, if u want to use softwares u have to respect the author license, as simple as that, it can happen everywhere ...

if somebody did the same and offer some awesome plugins for free in MAX (which i doubt will happen) community and something similar happened, will u abandon MAX? no .. why always LW?

MentalFish
04-04-2010, 09:27 AM
Denis (if you read this) I am just thinking out loud here... how do you feel about open sourcing your plugins so the burden of maintenance is not all on your shoulders? That's the reason why I have given all my LScripts uncompiled to the community, so if something breaks or I get hit by a car, someone else can fix it :D

jrandom
04-04-2010, 09:57 AM
The responsibility is on those that use the plugin not the developer that has upped it for free. Such arrogance is stunning. I'm surprised most of you ingrates have not had all of the good free stuff pulled because of your "gimme" attitude.

This isn't so much a "gimme" attitude as it is a potential breaking of one's own work.

Lets say you use the DPont plugins in your work. Suddenly, the plugins are no longer available. What if you need to rent time on a render farm for the final renders? If the plugins are not available anymore, they can't be installed on the farm. If it's a paying job, you're really screwed.

Render farm -- out.

What if you have a hard drive crash? What if you switch operating systems? What if you're going from 32-bit to 64-bit? Suddenly all of your hard work in Lightwave is broken because of the reliance on plugins that have vanished at the whim of a single person.

I'm lucky in that I've only really used the DPInfinite light in my work, and that's replaceable by a dome light with a narrow angle, but if I'd used any of the others I'd be stuck when LW for Mac finally goes 64-bit because I never downloaded those versions of the plugins.

This isn't "gimme", this is me wanting my stuff to not break in the future.

I'm starting to learn how to develop plugins myself and if I ever wind up making anything useful, you can be darned sure I'll be releasing the source code as well because I would never want to subject anyone else to this kind of situation.

Lightwolf
04-04-2010, 10:19 AM
This isn't "gimme", this is me wanting my stuff to not break in the future.

Then do what everybody else does with all crucial assets... backup. Plugins are nothing else. Especially since there's not guarantee that new versions will behave like the older ones (which goes for the host application as well).

And yes, I've got major projects backed up with a complete copy of the LW install used to create it.

Cheers,
Mike

*Pete*
04-04-2010, 10:36 AM
well, even if Dpont decides to stop sharing his plugins or to stop developing new ones, id still like to take the opportunity to thank him for his efforts in the past.

his plugins have saved the day for me many times.


so, Dpont...if you are reading this (im sure you are), many thanks for everything.

mikala
04-04-2010, 11:45 AM
Yeah the few 1,000 remaining LW users must know something that the other 98% of the 3D world just doesn't get. Pretty much everyone has abandoned LW for a reason, some are just too big of fanboys to realize what that reason is.

There isn't a single thing in Lightwave that I can't do easier and less painfully in 3d Max. It's great to actually enjoy doing 3D again instead of working around LW oddities.

Then perhaps take your new Autodesk fanboy love to an appropriate forum to give it some love there ?

scratch33
04-04-2010, 03:03 PM
Yeah the few 1,000 remaining LW users must know something that the other 98% of the 3D world just doesn't get. Pretty much everyone has abandoned LW for a reason, some are just too big of fanboys to realize what that reason is.

There isn't a single thing in Lightwave that I can't do easier and less painfully in 3d Max. It's great to actually enjoy doing 3D again instead of working around LW oddities.

OT. read the title please.

Why some olds lightwave users can't resist to come in newteks forums to talk negatively about lightwave?:grumpy:

inquisitive
04-05-2010, 05:34 PM
What is the latest version of DPKit / latest update date?
The one I have has an update date of (06/06/09)

Nicolas Jordan
04-05-2010, 09:55 PM
Yeah the few 1,000 remaining LW users must know something that the other 98% of the 3D world just doesn't get. Pretty much everyone has abandoned LW for a reason, some are just too big of fanboys to realize what that reason is.

There isn't a single thing in Lightwave that I can't do easier and less painfully in 3d Max. It's great to actually enjoy doing 3D again instead of working around LW oddities.

:stumped:

inquisitive
04-05-2010, 10:05 PM
Andyjaggy just because you have seen the light, doesnt mean we want to see it too. If you are going to be negative about LW, just leave us alone :) - A tool is a tool, you the artist is what determines what the tool does.. simple as that.. (of course its a lot more complicated than that of course) - but fact of the matter is .. if you have nothing constructive to say in a Lightwave forum about lightwave.. please spare us the drama.

digefxgrp
04-05-2010, 10:32 PM
There isn't a single thing in Lightwave that I can't do easier and less painfully in 3d Max. It's great to actually enjoy doing 3D again instead of working around LW oddities.

...and there's nothing in your online portfolio that I couldn't easily achieve using Lightwave...except of course the few samples that look like "Vue"... in which I'd probably also use Vue too if I was going for that look. :lwicon:

geo_n
04-05-2010, 10:47 PM
Why would you need to post this NON-CONSTRUCTIVE info in a LW forum? YOU should kmow better than this and it just appears as sour grapes. :spam:

I agree that is non-constructive at all.
1. Most people including me, actually have not harnessed the full power of an application. lw, max, etc. After working for a cg studio for 2 years, my opinion of lw actually went up. When i was a hobbyist using lw and max I always thought max is better but soon realized that depending on what service you offer, lightwave is good enough. I've met many talented artists working for us using lw and max and both impressive at what they do. Half the work done here is done with lw and half in max. See my cg reel. I am part of those commercials made in lw and max and I think these kinds of projects can be done in both applications.

2. 98% is a bit of an exaggeration. Its impossible to know the exact figures. Here in japan there are many freelance using lw and many studios using max,xsi,maya, lw. But from my experience dealing with outsourced projects from our company. freelancers tend to go with lw because its quality and price ratio can't be beat.

3. If you've moved on, just keep getting better at where you are. That's better isn't it?:thumbsup:

Andrewstopheles
04-05-2010, 10:48 PM
Dpont posted in another thread that he's working on replacing the old site, so I took it to mean he'll be back in due time.

kahalany
04-06-2010, 07:03 AM
Could someone please post the NAME of the DPont files (*.zip/*.p/*.ls/*.lsc) so at least I'll know what to look for in my archive? I'm pretty sure I've downloaded them a while back.

Thanks,

Royie

Matt
04-06-2010, 09:21 AM
That's the reason why I have given all my LScripts uncompiled to the community, so if something breaks or I get hit by a car, someone else can fix it :D

Same here, not that many people use my scripts.

jasonwestmas
04-06-2010, 09:43 AM
Same here, not that many people use my scripts.

I'm greedy, I just don't know where they are lol.

dballesg
04-06-2010, 11:49 AM
Andyjaggy just because you have seen the light, doesnt mean we want to see it too.

"Carol Anne - listen to me. Do NOT go into the light. Stop where you are. Turn away from it. Don't even look at it."

"It lies to her. It tells her things only a child can understand. It's been using her to restrain the others. To her, it simply is another child. To us, it is The Beast."

:D

inquisitive
04-06-2010, 12:07 PM
Same here, not that many people use my scripts.

I got curious and visited your site, but the plugins link reads coming soon.
Are your scripts located elsewhere?
Thanks

3dWannabe
04-06-2010, 01:16 PM
I think the length of this thread shows how important his plug-ins are to the LW community.

There's a massive article by Gerardo Estrada in issue 30 of hdri3d outlining the possibilities with just one of his plug-ins for Multipass Rendering.

http://www.hdri3d.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=163:c30&layout=blog&Itemid=100

I'm just now getting through the article, and am just blown away by the complexity.

No matter what he chooses to do, and it is his choice, he's already made a great contribution to the community.

KevinL
04-06-2010, 01:28 PM
Bottom line. When someone is more than generous enough to make an incredible piece(s) of code, for no cost, they can do whatever they want, whenever they want, for whatever reason strikes their fancy.

Hopefully gets resolved and the actual reason provided by Denis so we can know what to avoid doing wrong.

DP code.... genius. Thank You Denis

Kevin

peterpaw
04-06-2010, 03:34 PM
Three things that revolutionized Lightwave.
The first was a decision - a nodal surfacing. Kudos to Jay & consortes.
The second - Antti's amazing work on nodal system and Mark's on renderer.
The third - the incredibly work done by Denis! Break the limits - nodal almost everywhere with a great tools and great support!

Thank You Denis, thank You so much...
(Please, don't go... Please, don't go... :) )

Anyway, good luck in Your life and thank You for your support of our day's work!

best regards,
peter

Cageman
04-07-2010, 04:18 PM
Some rather good news, eh?

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108051

:)