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BeeVee
03-30-2010, 02:57 PM
Hi all,

Discuss the March 2010 newsletter (http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/newsletter.php) in this thread.

News this month includes:

* A LightWave with CORE Technology update from Jay Roth
* Avatar and the VAD
* Exclusive plugin news from David Ballesteros about his plugin HOT Ocean Toolkit
* An exclusive interview with Gregmutt creator Paul "Pooby" Smith
* VES Awards, Stereoscopic OpenGL and more

B

Lightwolf
03-30-2010, 03:41 PM
I love the interview with Pooby, thanks. Sometimes the quick and dirty ideas are the best.

Cheers,
Mike

geothefaust
03-30-2010, 03:41 PM
Congrats on getting 'er out Ben! Reading now, great thus far (as usual!). :)

hrgiger
03-30-2010, 03:50 PM
Yeah, good interview with Gre... I mean Paul.

Also, that CSI opening looked amazing. I didn't know what the hell was going on, but it looked amazing none the less.

dballesg
03-30-2010, 03:52 PM
Hi,

Thanks to Ben for the nice article about HOT Ocean tool-kit.

And as well for the so nice articles about Avatar and ppoby's works. I really enjoyed reading those.

And those screenshots of CORE looks beter every Newsletter. So congrats to Jay Roth and Boris Goreta! :)

David

Kuzey
03-30-2010, 03:56 PM
Nice work Ben as always :thumbsup:

Shame about there not being any Core videos this month...other than that..great stuff!


http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/images/profiles/imagesimage/newsletter/03_2010/jay/Instanced_Ajax_Mesh.JPG

About this image...we have those two sets of primitives popping up again :D

The icons with what seems like a pencil in front, are they just normal primitives, but drawn with the gesture movements that we saw in the reveal video. What makes them special??

Kuzey

hrgiger
03-30-2010, 04:01 PM
About this image...we have those two sets of primitives popping up again :D

The icons with what seems like a pencil in front, are they just normal primitives, but drawn with the gesture movements that we saw in the reveal video. What makes them special??

Kuzey

With CORE still being in alpha, I would assume that nothing is final so dont' worry too much about it. I think the pencil icon is just indicating that you draw out the primitive (like you do in modeler now). The others (with the p's in front) are instant primitves, click and they appear. The gesture primitives you're referring to is done with the sketch tool.

I'm sure next months newsletter will have more interesting CORE info.

Matt
03-30-2010, 04:07 PM
I wanna be GregMutt's fwend! :)

Kuzey
03-30-2010, 04:18 PM
With CORE still being in alpha, I would assume that nothing is final so dont' worry too much about it. I think the pencil icon is just indicating that you draw out the primitive (like you do in modeler now). The others (with the p's in front) are instant primitves, click and they appear. The gesture primitives you're referring to is done with the sketch tool.

I'm sure next months newsletter will have more interesting CORE info.

Thanks Hrgiger...as always :D

Ahh...so we have three ways of creating primitives at the moment...interesting stuff. So they are still in alpha...a bit like the 3 snap tools, I presume. It'll be interesting to see how they'll consolidate those tools or not...depending on the needs.

Kuzey

GraphXs
03-30-2010, 04:49 PM
Great Newsletter....but can Newtek or somebody who's knows Denis Pontonnier's please see if he will put his site back up! So sad if it's gone for good....:( If it is can the plug-ins be hosted somewhere else?

Kuzey
03-30-2010, 05:00 PM
If it is can the plug-ins be hosted somewhere else?

Don't even go there....we don't want things to hot up again. I'm sure things will return back to normal after a short period. At least I hope it will.

Kuzey

Matt
03-30-2010, 06:00 PM
Might as well remove the link to Denis' plugin actually, seen as it's no longer available.

Tobian
03-30-2010, 06:03 PM
WOO awesome! Thanks for the mention :)

That Ocean thing looks like something I will have to have a play with too!

Core is looking ever cooler, even if I have no idea what is being done with those surface nodes, and I had just about got the 9.x nodes down pat, they do something utterly different and weird looking :D

hrgiger
03-30-2010, 06:17 PM
Core is looking ever cooler, even if I have no idea what is being done with those surface nodes, and I had just about got the 9.x nodes down pat, they do something utterly different and weird looking :D

Everything in CORE is node based, not just surfaces like in 9.x.

Tobian
03-30-2010, 06:18 PM
Uh, yeah, I got that from... everything that's ever been mentioned about it :p

hrgiger
03-30-2010, 06:23 PM
Yes, I guess that has been mentioned a time or two. I was just implying that if you had just got surface nodes down in 9.x, it's time to go back to school.:D

Tobian
03-30-2010, 06:30 PM
Well I hope they make the logic a little more simple to look at. If I wanted to have something as complex as Maya or Houdini, then I'd use that :p That BSDF integrator node makes zero visual-logic sense in the node tree.

hrgiger
03-30-2010, 06:45 PM
Well as the tech faq's point out, nodes are only one way to display information. So you're not limited to working in a Houdini way although it may offer similar advantages.

BTW, congrats on the props in this months newsletter Tobian.

GraphXs
03-30-2010, 07:24 PM
Don't even go there....we don't want things to hot up again. I'm sure things will return back to normal after a short period. At least I hope it will.

Kuzey

I sure hope so, his plug-ins are wonderful!

speismonqui
03-30-2010, 11:59 PM
Core is looking great! really like the UI (the one with the maserati) clean as lightwave. Also the Nodes looks good, but not sure about the maserati render, too much noise i guess. Maybe the render engine its not 100% finished?

On the other hand, there is Pooby rendering with Fprime... rest my case :D Congratulations to Pooby and lightwave, the simple skin node is simply amazing!

The volumedic image and the videos on their site just blew my head off...
http://www.mediastudio-graz.com/volumedic/html/vm_gallery.htm

nikfaulkner
03-31-2010, 12:34 AM
the hot ocean stuff looks amazing, i tried getting my head around the blender implemenation of it for the ocean in my short film. gave up in the end due to lack of documentation.

so i spent ages doing a "lightwave" only ocean.

looks like its back to the drawing board as the lightwave cersion looks amazing

n.

PeT
03-31-2010, 01:42 AM
some interesting news ..

- edit -

page problem fixed, now it looks fine,
sorry .. couldn't read it good before :

http://rendering.de/uploads/news/BlackText.jpg

http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/newsletter.php

salve folks
peter

ps.
when core finally will be released?!!
it needs to long times,
all other packages long ago flew over the horizon ..

ps.
Denis P. is alive!
give him time ..

:)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.RenderRing.de
www.rendering.de

dballesg
03-31-2010, 06:56 AM
looks like its back to the drawing board as the lightwave cersion looks amazing

n.

Hey, thanks for the comment! :)

David

serge
03-31-2010, 07:08 AM
Everything in CORE is node based...
So is Bullet Dynamics nodal? Are the HC members already testing this?

Kuzey
03-31-2010, 07:11 AM
I was wondering, why are all the models were created in LW(HC) modeler and not Core? I remember some saying they use Core to model and it would have been nice to see some Core made models. I guess it might be still early for that kind of stuff.

Kuzey

Samus
03-31-2010, 08:35 AM
Hmm... Not so impressed by few screengrabs From Core.Last month Newsletter was more instructive,this is just no news at all...maybe feature one tool at the time would be better than this... How about talking about
that shader system or other.

Anyways LW still rocks And Core is just Good promesses for now.
And what ever happened to 9.6.1....????

Nicolas Jordan
03-31-2010, 08:42 AM
And what ever happened to 9.6.1....????

Sounds like you have been out of the loop for a bit. If your a registered 9.x user you have access to the 9.6.1 beta.

Kuzey
03-31-2010, 08:50 AM
Yeah...a video would have been great...at least Core didn't disappear from the newsletter altogether....but it's still very thin stuff.

I'm guessing...they planned a video, but got pulled at the last minute and they threw in some screen grabs.

9.6.1 looks like it has moved from being a hot fix to a slow one. Since 9.6.1 is all about the Cocoa version (mostly) and it's progress is tied to the progress of LWHC Cocoa version.

Newtek taking their time on 9.6.1 is a good thing in my books.

Kuzey

Netvudu
03-31-2010, 10:26 AM
Hey, wonderful newsletter! Everything was really interesting.

Also, being myself a Houdini user i was equally surprised and delighted to see HOT making an appearance on Lightwave! Way to go. I have to get some time to test that babe! Thanks a lot David (and Mike)! See guys? Spain rocks :D

Samus
03-31-2010, 10:45 AM
Sounds like you have been out of the loop for a bit. If your a registered 9.x user you have access to the 9.6.1 beta.

I do have access to 9.6.1 and true i havent used 9.6.1 betatestin' in my work cause i dont want my temporary licence running out in my productions. And no LWHC in there either "Core membership exclusive" or have i missed something??

Like everybody i guess....i just wish there where more to Core newsletters
than just two screenshots...

omichon
03-31-2010, 11:35 AM
After the sad news about Denis quitting, I needed some good news and that's really good news !
A plugin to achieve some decent ocean surface in LightWave is really welcome...and for free is the icing on the cake :)
I deal with ocean surface for a year or so now, and I was not sure to continue this project with Lightwave because of the lack of decent solution, but this plugin could change the deal. I will test HOT asap, definitely !
Thanks Ben, for the news, and thanks to all contributors for making that happen :thumbsup:


That said, I miss Denis and his awesome stuffs :(

geothefaust
03-31-2010, 12:18 PM
I do have access to 9.6.1 and true i havent used 9.6.1 betatestin' in my work cause i dont want my temporary licence running out in my productions. And no LWHC in there either "Core membership exclusive" or have i missed something??

Like everybody i guess....i just wish there where more to Core newsletters
than just two screenshots...

LWHC is essentially 9.6.1, but has a bridge that allows communication between CORE and legacy LW. So you only have access to LWHC if you have paid for CORE. You shant find it any where in the 9.6.1 beta forums or in the download section of the registration page.

geothefaust
03-31-2010, 12:19 PM
Great interview with Pooby, btw.





That said, I miss Denis and his awesome stuffs :(

Could agree more. I hope to see or hear some news of him soon.

WillBellJr
03-31-2010, 12:36 PM
Just wanted to pop in and say Congrats, Pooby, I'm so glad to see it WAS YOU that did that animation! :D

Great newsletter all around, Newtek! :thumbsup:

-Will

hrgiger
03-31-2010, 12:37 PM
So is Bullet Dynamics nodal? Are the HC members already testing this?

Definitely. Maybe.

serge
03-31-2010, 03:42 PM
Definitely.
Great! :thumbsup:


Maybe.
Hehe. :p

Iain
04-01-2010, 02:24 AM
I think this is the best newsletter so far Ben :thumbsup:
(But then I would say that!)

I enjoyed reading about Greg Mutt-sometimes the simplest of ideas lead to a phenomenon.

Kuzey
04-01-2010, 06:08 AM
I don't think so. LWHC has many new features that 9.6.1 does not have - as posted in the HC forums.

He did say "essentially" the same...a lot of little new features don't make much difference really. I mean, LWHC does not have the feature/ability to handle the same amount of polygons that Core does...now, that would be a major feature in my books :D

Speaking of which, are there any plans for this feature, or does it require a total rewrite of LWHC and therefore it's not going to happen??


Kuzey

Tobian
04-01-2010, 06:13 AM
Kuzey, that would make zero sense, since that's the POINT of Core. LWHC is a stopgap while Core catches up on the featuresets of LW 9.x.

And Megalodon, that's splitting hairs really. If it wasn't just 9.6.1 + a couple of bolt-on features then it would mean they are rewriting the classic codebase, which as I just said makes zero sense.

Kuzey
04-01-2010, 06:27 AM
Kuzey, that would make zero sense, since that's the POINT of Core. LWHC is a stopgap while Core catches up on the featuresets of LW 9.x.

And Megalodon, that's splitting hairs really. If it wasn't just 9.6.1 + a couple of bolt-on features then it would mean they are rewriting the classic codebase, which as I just said makes zero sense.

Yes that does not compute...I just wanted to make things clear :D

LWHC is a stopgap measure...but what use is it, if it can't handle the same polygon count as Core. That makes no sense at all and that's why I kept saying they should drop LWHC and concentrate on Core.

Kuzey

sampei
04-01-2010, 06:54 AM
very cool stuff in this newsletter, congrats to all featured :thumbsup:

Tobian
04-01-2010, 06:57 AM
Well true, but abandoning the old codebase won't make CORE happen any quicker, so it's much better if people can continue using some of the advantages of Core with the LW classic codebase, for example the dynamics and rigging advantages, that can be baked back into LW - and in the case of Core, taking your modelling expertise in LW classic, and then taking it straight to Core for advanced rendering. It's not perfect, but since they aready HAVE LW classic, they may as well make best use of it, time core is improved!

Kuzey
04-01-2010, 07:28 AM
Tobian...are you in the HC program??

Because this is the first time I've heard of advanced rendering in Core :hey:

Yes, we have VPR...which is based on the full render engine but we haven't been told if Core1 with have advanced rendering...or just the basic building blocks in place for later on.

But, I think abandoning the old code base will make Core develop faster...at the very least it should be more solid. For one thing, they won't be working on 3 different programs at the same time...9.6.1, LWHC & Core.

They could have treated 9.6.1 and Core as completely different apps...like LW & Zbrush and not like old LW and new LW. If something from old LW breaks in Core...then so be it. it's a different app and you expect things to break or work differently. They just needed to update the file importers and exporters for 9.6.1 and be done with it.

Someone mentioned you can make normal maps in Core, wouldn't that be one way to get heavy mesh back into old LW...a bit like Zbrush etc without having to keep on updating the old code.

I'm still not so sure of LWHC...I see it more as a ball and chain than a safety net..but that's me :hey:

Kuzey

Tobian
04-01-2010, 07:38 AM
Erm the renderer in core is clearly a lot more advanced than the current one, as it supports much more sophisticated and optimised shader models and real-time feedback.. as in the previews. That's based on the previews we've been shown. I am not sure what other evidence you require for it to be 'advanced'?

Kuzey, i am also quite confused by your statements there... while LWHC and core are bundled, and share a 'bridge' (a fancy name for a software notifier which alerts one software if something's been changed in another one :D) they are treated as seperate, and only some things will go across. However since LW 9.x has collada and FBX support, and Core is based round collada, and reads/writes LW 9.x files it means they can share data AND Newtek can make sure they share data without horrible errors (like when I tried to export a model of mine to OBJ and DAE the other day and ended up with a nasty mess in Max :D). That's got to be very important for people with a legacy of LW stuff, as 20 odd years of developing assets for LW means some people don't want their prized models to explode if they try and load them into Core :p (unless that's what they intended with bullet physics :D). It's important they make that bridge, even if it means slowing down core development.

Kuzey
04-01-2010, 08:22 AM
Yes the render engine in what ever state it's currently in...is advanced compared to LW. I should have said useful, that would have been more appropriate. As I understand it, you can't export an image or animation from VPR preview render yet. So "useful" was the word I was looking for :D

LW's collada and FBX file exporters, maybe obj's as well...aren't that great. We keep seeing posts, people having issues when exporting from 9.6...information not exporting across or things exploding....those should have been addressed. If you fixed those issues, things would be easier and you wouldn't need to develop LWHC. The idea is to export old LW content in a new and improved Collada format..for example, so it won't explode in Core. To not improve those file formats in LW and or Core is a bit strange to me.

If it can't handle high polygon counts, whats to use of maintaining and developing old code. High density mesh in LWHC would be a selling point in my view...people would upgrade just on that alone...I would think :D

LWHC is like a bridge, but it's a bridge with the center not yet built.

So in short...I'd rather have them fix the file formats and concentrate on Core. If Newtek wants to continue developing LWHC for whatever reason, then by all means, make sure it can handle the same polygon count as Core....at the very least.

Kuzey

Nemoid
04-01-2010, 09:09 AM
well, the mere fact you can handle a whole lot of polys doesn't always mean you should or would need to. If Lw HC can handle the same of what 9.6 can, i can see no fantastic probs.
The real problem is how much time will CORE need to stand on its own. Goal should be to get rid of HC asap. Lets say, max 3 years from 1.0 release. If it's 2 years, even better.

Kuzey
04-01-2010, 10:56 AM
I wonder, could LW9.6 or LWHC render a jungle scene from Avatar without any problems.

Of course, LWHC's polygon limit won't matter much...if Core becomes complete sooner rather than later....which I hope is the case :hey:

Kuzey

jayroth
04-01-2010, 01:29 PM
So is Bullet Dynamics nodal? Are the HC members already testing this?

Yes, Bullet nodes can be edited/manipulated in the Connection Editor.

jayroth
04-01-2010, 01:31 PM
I'm guessing...they planned a video, but got pulled at the last minute and they threw in some screen grabs.



Don't buy that Lotto ticket, as you have guessed wrong. We are staffing up, as everyone knows, and we expect to have more videos in the future (though not necessarily in the next newsletter).

jayroth
04-01-2010, 01:41 PM
LWHC is a stopgap measure...but what use is it, if it can't handle the same polygon count as Core. That makes no sense at all and that's why I kept saying they should drop LWHC and concentrate on Core.

Kuzey

HC is NOT a stopgap measure at all. It is part of the deliverables for the next release of LightWave 3D, which will consist 3 apps: Layout, Modeler and CORE. HC, the original Layout and Modeler, have received bug fixes and feature upgrades, as well as infrastructure improvements to allow interchange with CORE. In addition, HC apps and CORE offers a more reliable interchange with each other than previously allowed by the HUB (this is different than using the HUB, however, and the HUB is still included for those who prefer it.)

HC is intended to facilitate a transition between the original apps and CORE. CORE will NOT offer all that each of the original apps can do for awhile, so it just makes sense to allow users to make the transition at a pace they feel comfortable with, and allowing CORE to grow at its pace.

Hopefully that puts this in the proper perspective.

Kuzey
04-01-2010, 03:05 PM
Don't buy that Lotto ticket, as you have guessed wrong. We are staffing up, as everyone knows, and we expect to have more videos in the future (though not necessarily in the next newsletter).

So I presume David would be making the videos from now on?

It was kinda interesting to see you guys almost miss the month with the newsletter :D

Kuzey

Kuzey
04-01-2010, 03:37 PM
HC is NOT a stopgap measure at all. It is part of the deliverables for the next release of LightWave 3D, which will consist 3 apps: Layout, Modeler and CORE. HC, the original Layout and Modeler, have received bug fixes and feature upgrades, as well as infrastructure improvements to allow interchange with CORE. In addition, HC apps and CORE offers a more reliable interchange with each other than previously allowed by the HUB (this is different than using the HUB, however, and the HUB is still included for those who prefer it.)

HC is intended to facilitate a transition between the original apps and CORE. CORE will NOT offer all that each of the original apps can do for awhile, so it just makes sense to allow users to make the transition at a pace they feel comfortable with, and allowing CORE to grow at its pace.

Hopefully that puts this in the proper perspective.

Sure..LWHC is part of the next release, but it won't continue being developed in the long term e.g. after Core becomes a standalone app....whatever it is, it will be temporary.

I would have thought having the same high polygon limits in Core and LWHC would have been vital for the process to work. Being able to move a heavy scene from Core to LWHC and back again, would have made things a lot easier....but that's me, looking from the outside in :hey:

Will the file formats get fixed/updated in the 9.6.1 hot fix or is that seen more as a feature request than bug fix?

We've seen the VPR in Core, but is the final render engine active. e.g. you run VPR and like everything in the scene...textures, lighting etc...what happens next? Can you then render the final image in Core, or do you need to do it in LWHC and does the preview render match the LWHC render? I presume it does...since it's pretty much the same thing...but so much better in Core.

Thanks for the information...it's all very much appreciated :D

Kuzey

jayroth
04-01-2010, 03:42 PM
So I presume David would be making the videos from now on?

It was kinda interesting to see you guys almost miss the month with the newsletter :D

Kuzey

Presume nothing. It's safer that way.

jayroth
04-01-2010, 03:47 PM
I would have thought having the same high polygon limits in Core and LWHC would have been vital for the process to work. Being able to move a heavy scene from Core to LWHC and back again, would have made things a lot easier....but that's me, looking from the outside in :hey:

Any changes to improve the capacity of the Layout and Modeler apps in that regard would not be possible without massive changes to that architecture, which would have lead to unforeseen circumstances. That is one of the purposes of CORE. It was more prudent to leave these aspects of the Layout and Modeler apps untouched.


Will the file formats get fixed/updated in the 9.6.1 hot fix or is that seen more as a feature request than bug fix?

961 is a bug fix only; no new features will be added. If we have bug reports on file format issues with content, we will happily investigate repairing any of those issues, within reason.


We've seen the VPR in Core, but is the final render engine active. e.g. you run VPR and like everything in the scene...textures, lighting etc...what happens next? Can you then render the final image in Core, or do you need to do it in LWHC and does the preview render match the LWHC render? I presume it does...since it's pretty much the same thing...but so much better in Core.

Kuzey

The software render engine will be enabled towards the end of the CORE development cycle.

Kuzey
04-01-2010, 03:50 PM
Presume nothing. It's safer that way.

Haha...Yeah I know. But when there's no information, my mind starts to explore all the possibilities....even if they end up being wrong :D

Kuzey

Kuzey
04-01-2010, 03:58 PM
Any changes to improve the capacity of the Layout and Modeler apps in that regard would not be possible without massive changes to that architecture, which would have lead to unforeseen circumstances. That is one of the purposes of CORE. It was more prudent to leave these aspects of the Layout and Modeler apps untouched.



961 is a bug fix only; no new features will be added. If we have bug reports on file format issues with content, we will happily investigate repairing any of those issues, within reason.



The software render engine will be enabled towards the end of the CORE development cycle.

Ha...now that's crystal clear :thumbsup:

Well...almost, I presume you're talking about Core1 as far as the render engine is concerned :D

Many thanks!!

Kuzey

serge
04-02-2010, 07:45 AM
Yes, Bullet nodes can be edited/manipulated in the Connection Editor.
Thanks Jay! I asked this question earlier after the CORE features PDF was released, but didn't get a (straight) answer then. That got me a little worried :). Looking forward to some Bullet videos!