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Mr Rid
03-23-2010, 01:22 AM
Am curious what anyone suggests for the best image quality when submitting videos to YouTube. Everything I have ever submitted winds up looking blocky and stuttery, while I see some other videos that show up crystal clear with almost no artifacting- like Pidgeon Impossible looks perfect-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEjUAnPc2VA I asked the filmmaker and he said he submitted an H264 the same as I have... so why are mine so artifacty?

In November of 2009 I also noticed something changed in the way I guess YouTube is converting gamma in my submitted videos. I usually submit H264 or PhotoJpeg compressed Quicktimes, saved out of Fusion or QT Pro. I once submitted the exact same video twice in a row and once it was dark and the next time it was fine(?). But since then, all of my submissions show up too dark and contrasty.

Ive noticed a similar problem with QTs between the different gammas on PCs and Macs. A PC generated QT looks too dark on a Mac, and a Mac generated QT looks too bright on a PC.

I have not been able to submit a video for months without this issue. I tried experimenting with pre-compensating but is just not working and should not be necessary. Yet again I am wondering how I can be the only person with what seems like an unavoidable problem.

83373

biliousfrog
03-23-2010, 05:01 AM
I'd be interested to know too as I've also noticed the same problems when submitting videos.

There is a problem with gamma when using H264 and Quicktime, you need to change the video's gamma settings within QT and save the video. You might already know about that...I don't have QT Pro on this computer so I can't give you the required steps but it requires going into the movie properties and changing something...but I need to do it myself to remember fully.

Red_Oddity
03-23-2010, 05:16 AM
The problem is, which player actually shows the correct colors, QT in my experience is the most unreliable media player on the planet, with every update Apple breaks something or changes something that throws pipelines worldwide in a frenzy.

What does the frame look like from Fusion?

Can't say we've had many problems with H264, but then again, we encode with X264 (via commandline or via MeGUI), we try to steer clear of encoding with QT.

Not much help, i know, but still, see if encoding with MeGUI, Mencoder or FFMPEG helps solve it.

OnlineRender
03-23-2010, 06:33 AM
FLV all the way , I got 1.6 gig down to 13 meg using AE FLV codec , it worked a treat and compression is excellent and for some reason youtube uploads the format alot quicker ... see sig (fifa Online video )

cresshead
03-23-2010, 06:44 AM
yeah quicktime h264 usually sux for youtube...my renders look dark on youtube but fine elsewhere, best advice is not to use Quicktime h264 based files at all.

my training vids for example are all avi, they work perfect
also my kodak HD Zi8 camcorder home vids also upload just dandy!

OnlineRender
03-23-2010, 08:00 AM
I just done a quick render test to FLV http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSaPkc8KF3Y that's HD 10 sec = 1meg *which is pretty good , I tested with text because I hate not being able to read the text in YT videos ,I also started to make a demoreel "chuckle " .

.P.S its meant to be shacky :)

excellent pluggin from AK *video coplilot SURE TARGET , can be used in many ways .

cresshead
03-23-2010, 08:04 AM
I just done a quick render test to FLV http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSaPkc8KF3Y that's HD 10 sec = 1meg *which is pretty good , I tested with text because I hate not being able to read the text in YT videos ,I also started to make a demoreel "chuckle " .

.P.S its meant to be shacky :)

hey i love the alzheimers effect!..wobble vision :D

OnlineRender
03-23-2010, 08:08 AM
hey i love the alzheimers effect!..wobble vision :D

well being a young pup myself , I thought I would make it for the older generation , people like you :P ,it should seem stable . :rock:

Im just playing with the intro idea , I cant post my stuff for FifaOnline Beta due to NDA , but i was speaking with the producers a couple of nights ago and its positive news :P

Titus
03-23-2010, 08:53 AM
There's a know problem (http://forums.cgsociety.org/archive/index.php/t-327725.html) with the gamma tag in H264.

Shawn Farrell
03-23-2010, 09:21 AM
I render out in SpeedHQ then compress with The FLASH media encoder that came with FLASH 8 Professional at (this realy helps) a framerate of 24fps (pushing through less frames = better quality) and a custom bitrate of 1500. The videos upload and convert fast and I believe YouTube keeps the 24fps. I still have not figured out though why some of my videos end up with the HD quality option on YouTube and some don't but they all look pretty good.

erikals
03-23-2010, 09:57 AM
i've uploaded +100 YT videos using Xvid, size/speed/quality is great.

OnlineRender
03-23-2010, 10:59 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSaPkc8KF3Y

lol 85 views in 2 hrs LOL wish I had waited now to post ,dont get excitited people its just an animatic .lol

cresshead
03-23-2010, 11:14 AM
lol 85 views in 2 hrs LOL wish I had waited now to post ,dont get excitited people its just an animatic .lol


just to be a pure git i'll give it a 1 star rating.....:devil:

OnlineRender
03-23-2010, 11:18 AM
just to be a pure git i'll give it a 1 star rating.....:devil:

1 star more than I gave yours :rock: , its not even got meta tags LOL
---------------------
edit just read ur comment LOL . . . .

OnlineRender
03-23-2010, 11:27 AM
the question is do I use my real name : Steven David Andrew Scott or just Steph since eveybody calls me that anyways ....and no add lib please lol

JMCarrigan
03-23-2010, 11:51 AM
.....and no add lib please lol

Dang! :devil:

OnlineRender
03-23-2010, 11:55 AM
Dang! :devil:

LOL you notice how OnlineRender looks like RearEnder :P Im not going to live that down now .......

Sarford
03-23-2010, 12:03 PM
@ mr rid: personaly I use Vimeo it I want good video quality. YouTube is almost always crap, even their HD option. I hope YouTube isn't mandatory use for you.

OnlineRender
03-23-2010, 12:08 PM
@ mr rid: personaly I use Vimeo it I want good video quality. YouTube is almost always crap, even their HD option. I hope YouTube isn't mandatory use for you.

agreed ,vimeo is good and slightly more for grown ups ,but youtube hits the masses .

Matt
03-23-2010, 12:10 PM
If you can keep within the limits, best thing to upload to YouTube is uncompressed and let it deal with encoding it, when you have something encoded and it's re-encoded by YouTube you lose quality.

OnlineRender
03-23-2010, 12:13 PM
If you can keep within the limits, best thing to upload to YouTube is uncompressed and let it deal with encoding it, when you have something encoded and it's re-encoded by YouTube you lose quality.

ye thats best thing to do ! but uploading +1 gig can be soul destoying "trust me " lol , best is still FLV

Greenlaw
03-23-2010, 02:56 PM
I was pretty happy with the YouTube upload quality of the short film (http://www.youtube.com/user/littlegreendogmovies) my wife and I did a few years ago. It was exported from Sony Vegas Pro, but I remember I had to do a bit of research and tweaking to get it right. I'll look up my settings when I get home tonight and post them here.

BTW, when you upload a video, YouTube ALWAYS recompresses the data, so it's best not to upload anything that already has heavy compression (like .flv for example.) At one time, if you uploaded in a certain format/codec combo, YouTube would preserve the video without recompressing, but my understanding is that this is no longer the case, and hasn't been for a few years now.

Also, when you upload, expect the quality to look degraded for an hour or so. This happens because YouTube allows you to view a proxy version of the movie while it's still compressing the final high-quality version for your channel.

gerry_g
03-23-2010, 03:50 PM
Talked to a guy at an exhib bout this recently, said hardware encoding beats the pants off of software encoding so – One get a dedicated card if U is serious. – Two if U are into FCP there is a standard encoding out in Compressor called 'Youtube H624' (tho I haven't had a nose round yet to check) but it's supposed to be pretty good and – Three, Youtube themselves take your content and remaster it to a low bit rate version and a HD version, this is what I'm told but don't shoot me if I'm wrong.

Mr Rid
03-23-2010, 11:00 PM
yeah quicktime h264 usually sux for youtube...

Although H264 is what YT recommends. But I have the same problem with PhotoJpeg and uncompressed QTs.


agreed ,vimeo is good and slightly more for grown ups ,but youtube hits the masses .

Exactly, and I dont have to own all rights to the clip. And I like the Insight and other features.

Andyjaggy
03-24-2010, 09:23 AM
Ah the quicktime gamma bug. I've given up on Apple ever fixing this.

OnlineRender
03-24-2010, 10:28 AM
.........QUICK FIRE QUESTION "ok so what does MPEG and JPEG abr mean without using google "........QUICK FIRE ..........
---------------------------------------
edit I already know the answer !

Greenlaw
03-30-2010, 11:23 PM
Sorry this took so long; I'm uploading a video to YouTube tonight and I finally got around to checking which Vegas Pro settings I use. (The same settings used for Hello Frankenstein (http://www.youtube.com/user/littlegreendogmovies).) FWIW, here ya go:

Video

Include video stream: On
Output type: MPEG-2
Codec: Main Concept
Size: 640 x 480
I-frames:15
Profile: Main
Level: Main
Field Order: None (progressive scan)
Frame rate: 29.97
Aspect ratio: Square pixels
Prioritize quality of Speed: On
Video quality: 31 (High)
Insert sequence header before every GOP: On
Variable bit rate: On
Max (bps): 9,500,000
Avg (bps): 6,000,000
Min (bps): 192,000

Audio

Include audio stream: On
Audio mode: Stereo mode
Psychoacoustic model: Psychoacuostic model 2
Audio layer: Audio layer 2
Bit rate (Kbps): 224
Emphasis: No emphasis (default)
Sample rate (Hz): 48,000
Embedded CRC error protection: On

Naturally, if you're not using Vegas Pro, not all of these settings may be relevant to your video editor. I think most of these settings were just Main Concept MPEG-2 defaults to begin with, and I only tweaked a few options to match my source video. Also, there are three other panels of options in the 'Render As' window that I didn't mention here, but I think the video and audio options listed above cover all the important stuff.

Greenlaw
03-30-2010, 11:31 PM
BTW, Hello Frankenstein (http://www.youtube.com/user/littlegreendogmovies) got mentioned on Maxim magazine's The Movie Blog this week. The blog entry is a brief 100 year retrospective of Frankenstein from Thomas Edison to, well, Hello Frankenstein. :)

Here's the link: The Movie Blog: The Horror Movie Turns 100 (http://www.maxim.com/movies/the-movie-blog/89636/horror-movie-turns-100.html)

And to keep this 'on topic', yes LightWave was used in this short. :p

Mr Rid
03-31-2010, 09:59 PM
Thanks for the in-depth, Greenlaw. I need to set up a new edit station and I was thinking about trying out Vegas.

I cant find a decent AVI codec. Someone said Lagarith but it makes GINORMOUS files that I dont understand the point in. Someone else said XVID but it aint working out of Premiere Pro.

Greenlaw
04-01-2010, 01:52 AM
I recently started transcoding AVCHD footage to Cineform using Neoscene (http://www.cineform.com/neoscene/index.php), and it seems to work very well. I thought this bit from the specs was interesting:


Chroma Interpolation: 4:2:0 → 4:2:2. Background: Most HDV and AVCHD camcorders record chroma (color) in a format known as 4:2:0. Without boring you with details, 4:2:0 chroma is half the color resolution of more professional 4:2:2 formats. When Neo Scene detects 4:2:0 chroma it properly interpolates the source chroma to 4:2:2 for more accurate color processing during editing and effects work. And if you ever "key" your material, CineFormís chroma interpolation will substantially improve your resulting visual fidelity.
My hope is that this feature will help with keying green screen footage shot with consumer and 'prosumer' AVCHD cameras; I'm sure I'll get around to testing this soon enough. ('Hello Frankenstein' was shot on a very early Mini DV tape camera and the footage was horrific to key, so for me anything will be an improvement.)

Anyway, Cineform AVI does make AVCHD a lot more edit-friendly in Vegas Pro with no noticeable loss in quality. Don't know how well it works in Premiere, but the specs do state that it's CS3 and CS4 compatible.

erikals
04-01-2010, 04:18 AM
i use Xvid in After Effects, PC

sorry, not sure about Premiere..

JMCarrigan
04-01-2010, 04:25 PM
Thanks for the in-depth, Greenlaw. I need to set up a new edit station and I was thinking about trying out Vegas.

I cant find a decent AVI codec. Someone said Lagarith but it makes GINORMOUS files that I dont understand the point in. Someone else said XVID but it aint working out of Premiere Pro.

I have the latest Vegas Pro Mr Rid. I love it.

calilifestyle
04-02-2010, 12:30 PM
i have a question about which player do you guys like better, for video quality. Blip.tv or Vimeo.com or youtube. Also from the three, which give their users more control.

Mr Rid
04-06-2010, 03:37 AM
Ok, so the dark YouTube video problem I have been seeing since November is not just a Quicktime bug since it is also happening with AVIs. Once again, I find it so bizarre that I am the only person on the planet to say anything about a glaring tech problem. I have posted this issue three times on that useless Google forum that YT directs you to for support questions, and no responses. Apparently YouTube has no tech or customer support.

OnlineRender
04-06-2010, 04:33 AM
Apparently YouTube has no tech or customer support.

LOL ! I know excatly what you mean !

This original file was 1.9 gig "excuse the plug ,new game on XNA "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMCpAyw7Y4M ( WIP )

I got it down to 8 meg using FLV codec in After Effects , its Youtube HD friendly , I noticed a few problems the AA on vector images is a little pixeld it's decent enough .I tried divx and several others but for render speed and file size FLV is still the best personally for me .

Greenlaw
04-06-2010, 12:45 PM
Ok, so the dark YouTube video problem I have been seeing since November is not just a Quicktime bug since it is also happening with AVIs.

Hi Mr. Rid,

I'm a little confused about what I'm seeing in these images. To me, the YT images look closer to the source image than how the image appears in the local players screen caps. Could the problem be in how the players are displaying the video and not the video data itself?

FWIW, I know some graphic cards have a setting to display video in a video player windows differently (i.e., different gamma, brightness, etc.,) than in other windows. This 'feature' messed me up on a personal project I did a few years ago. You might want to check the display card's control panel for this.

Hope this helps.

Mr Rid
04-06-2010, 05:26 PM
Hi Mr. Rid,

I'm a little confused about what I'm seeing in these images. To me, the YT images look closer to the source image than how the image appears in the local players screen caps. Could the problem be in how the players are displaying the video and not the video data itself?

FWIW, I know some graphic cards have a setting to display video in a video player windows differently (i.e., different gamma, brightness, etc.,) than in other windows. This 'feature' messed me up on a personal project I did a few years ago. You might want to check the display card's control panel for this.

Hope this helps.

I wondered about that as there is a slight difference in the way my Win7 machine displays clips than the 3 other XP machines I have at home. They all have different graphics cards. But the posted YT vids still appear darker than the originals, on four different displays/cards.

In my example image, the AVI levels most resemble the source TGA. The QT appears a little brighter than the TGA. The AVI posted on YT looks darker than any of the above. And any QT posted on YT looks darkest of all.

But if I post the same QT on YT that I posted a year ago, it shows up much darker now than it did a year ago, on the same display. So I see there is definitely something going on differently when YT converts the videos.

Back in November, I first noticed this issue when I submitted the 'Tree Burst' animation as a QT to YT. The night shot showed up unwatchably dark on YT. The next day I submitted the exact same clip from the same machine, and it suddenly looked fine. Some days later, I saw that everything I submitted to YT came in too dark and has been going on ever since. YT changed something.

This may all be the lack of a unified standard way of handling gamma and color space bullsheet that I am really fed up with. A couple years ago I read a lengthy American Cinematographer article on 'The Color Space Conundrum.' Basically, no one knew the answer to solving the differences between all the formats, displays and apps. The ASC was suppose to be establishing some institution of digital color/gamma standards since it was getting to be such a mess.

Mr Rid
04-06-2010, 11:12 PM
LOL ! I know excatly what you mean !

No really. There isnt any.

OnlineRender
04-07-2010, 01:59 AM
No really. There isnt any.

I KNOW ,LOL . We had problems getting in contact with them before , lucky I know I guy who works for google who could help .

they only way technical /Staff will answer , is when your content says this .

HOW MUCH Do YOU CHARGE ....... :)

Mr Rid
07-30-2010, 11:50 PM
I have the latest Vegas Pro Mr Rid. I love it.

Am trying Vegas. Do you or Greeanlaw or anyone know if it is possible to maintain audio scrubbing while dragging the in or out point of an audio clip in the timeline? Am also expecting to hear audio while dragging the volume level or a volume keyframe. Am not referring to overall scrubbing while dragging the frame slider, which works. Ive been all over the prefs and docs and it does not seem to do this. I have the same major gripe about Premiere Pro.

erikals
08-01-2010, 02:50 AM
...i assume you tried Xvid?

Elmar Moelzer
08-01-2010, 03:07 AM
I have just learned to live with the fact that Youtubes quality plain sucks. I usually upload my videos to both Youtube and Vimeo. Youtube for the extra exposure and Vimeo for the quality. With Youtube, I do not even bother trying anymore. They keep constantly degrading my videos too.
When I first uploaded them, some of my videos were 480p. Then Youtube converted them down to 360 one day. Now they converted them down again, all without my doing. As a result they are mess of large ugly pixels.
In return they are introducing 4k videos. It just does not make sense at all. It would be better if they kept the res lower, but lowered the compression a bit in return. A standard res video looks better on Vimeo than a 720p video does on Youtube. Sometimes even a 1080p video on Youtube can look worse than on Vimeo. What a mess!

erikals
08-01-2010, 03:29 AM
if you download your videos from YT, YT will give you the 360 version,
use YouTube Downloader HD instead, which gives you the 480 version.

though if they really scaled down the videos, shame on them.

for tutorials YT is ok, but for quality, Vimeo is definitely the way to go.

Elmar Moelzer
08-01-2010, 08:01 AM
No, I mean Youtube plays those videos in a scaled down res. They initially were 480 right after I uploaded them. Then they were scaled down to 360 a few days later. Now (months later) they are down to 240 (new res they recently introduced) and they really look horrible!

erikals
08-01-2010, 08:07 AM
shoot! :[

makes me consider jumping to Vimeo.

Elmar Moelzer
08-01-2010, 09:05 AM
Ok, now they have upped them to at least 360 again, it seems. I just saw it. Still the 360 quality looks like complete crap.
And who the frack would want to watch anything in 240? Why did they even introduce that resolution?
It is totally pointless in these times!

Silkrooster
08-01-2010, 10:18 PM
I haven't tried it, so the following may not be true.

I read somewhere's that youtube prefers the video's to be uploaded as flash files. Otherwise they have to recompress the files which gives them a poor quality.

Thing is, I don't recall seeing swf or flv as an option.

Greenlaw
11-28-2010, 04:08 AM
I haven't tried it, so the following may not be true.

I read somewhere's that youtube prefers the video's to be uploaded as flash files. Otherwise they have to recompress the files which gives them a poor quality.

Thing is, I don't recall seeing swf or flv as an option.


I haven't tried it, so the following may not be true.

I read somewhere's that youtube prefers the video's to be uploaded as flash files. Otherwise they have to recompress the files which gives them a poor quality.

Thing is, I don't recall seeing swf or flv as an option.

This isn't true; they always recompress what's uploaded. There was a time years ago when, if you matched their settings, they would not recompress but that doesn't work anymore. I believe their system always recompresses to make sure all videos get the same compression.

The best you can do is to either upload uncompressed (usually not practical) or to upload with minimal compression.

BTW, videos uploaded to YouTube will always look bad at first because they make a proxy version available while they compress the high quality version. Once the compression process is done (which can take quite a bit of time depending on the length and resolution,) the video will automatically be updated and it should much better.

For details on YouTube settings I like to use, see my earlier posts in this thread. (I'm glad I posted that info because I need to get those settings now.) :)

G.

OnlineRender
11-28-2010, 04:45 AM
Youtube will always compress any format , I find FLV works the best , it also shows you images in the timeline when uploading " I dont get that with any other video format " .

FLV HD UPLOAD EXAMPLE :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbD9dL8JYRI

Mr Rid
11-28-2010, 03:11 PM
I settled on starting with uncompressed QTs, then export out of QTpro as H264 at 100% (may go 90% if file is too hefty). This brightens the image which would normally be undesirable, but when I upload it to YT their recompression darkens it back to normal. There is minor artifacting but is fine to me.

Silkrooster
11-28-2010, 10:31 PM
This isn't true; they always recompress what's uploaded. There was a time years ago when, if you matched their settings, they would not recompress but that doesn't work anymore. I believe their system always recompresses to make sure all videos get the same compression.

The best you can do is to either upload uncompressed (usually not practical) or to upload with minimal compression.

BTW, videos uploaded to YouTube will always look bad at first because they make a proxy version available while they compress the high quality version. Once the compression process is done (which can take quite a bit of time depending on the length and resolution,) the video will automatically be updated and it should much better.

For details on YouTube settings I like to use, see my earlier posts in this thread. (I'm glad I posted that info because I need to get those settings now.) :)

G.

Boy you really believe so strongly in me being wrong having to quote me twice like that. :hey:

Greenlaw
11-29-2010, 12:28 AM
Boy you really believe so strongly in me being wrong having to quote me twice like that. :hey:

Oops, sorry! I'm not sure what happened, but it was 3 a.m. I should get more sleep before posting again. :sleeping:

G

Silkrooster
11-29-2010, 01:10 AM
Oops, sorry! I'm not sure what happened, but it was 3 a.m. I should get more sleep before posting again. :sleeping:

G

Don't worry about it. I assumed it was something like that.

Tmapper
11-29-2010, 10:37 PM
are you using a separate program outside of the SE2 for you finished product. All I have is what came with SE2. What was the process you used to get such a nice clean vid. I have a 12 minute project I need to put up on YT and it looks horrible, no matter what I try.
Thanks
Scott
[email protected]

Jim_C
12-01-2010, 03:27 PM
are you using a separate program outside of the SE2 for you finished product. All I have is what came with SE2. What was the process you used to get such a nice clean vid. I have a 12 minute project I need to put up on YT and it looks horrible, no matter what I try.
Thanks
Scott
[email protected]

Choose mp4

Use Project settings (unless the proj is interlaced, in that case throw the deinterlace filter under the project and render with all native project settings except change to progressive)

Not sure what resolution you are upping but if it's 720 start with a bitrate of maybe 2000-2500. Use CBR 2 pass, only because VBR crashes SE a lot for me.. maybe not for you.

See what that looks like....