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View Full Version : Keystone (LW->Unity) sneak peek



MentalFish
03-09-2010, 12:02 PM
Ok boys and girls, are you ready for this? Here is the first sneak peek of Keystone:

http://vimeo.com/10034871

Stand by for more goodies.

Larry_g1s
03-09-2010, 12:24 PM
Sa-weet! Thanks Petter and looking forward to hearing more.

CF01
03-09-2010, 12:53 PM
I can't wait to try this out. Any idea if it works with Modo too?

Tzan
03-09-2010, 01:18 PM
Nice! :)

MentalFish
03-09-2010, 01:57 PM
As long as modo saves an LWO as per SDK definition, it will work yes.

Oedo 808
03-09-2010, 02:04 PM
This looks fantastic, can't wait to see more!

Great work :thumbsup:

SplineGod
03-09-2010, 07:10 PM
Very nice! :)

geo_n
03-09-2010, 10:35 PM
This beats the 3dmax workflow :D
http://masteranza.wordpress.com/unity/lightmapping/

very very excited :thumbsup:

adk
03-10-2010, 02:55 PM
... nice work guys :thumbsup: Unity has popped up on my radar (late I know) so I'll definitely be keeping an eye on this.

tyrot
03-10-2010, 05:30 PM
I ll start using UNITY after this plugin... I was relying on NeoAxis quite sometime because of an amazing just amazing OGRE plugin. But this will really change the things at my side...

Any character animation export sneak peek???

SplineGod
03-10-2010, 08:06 PM
Same here. Exciting times are coming :)

vgabex
03-11-2010, 02:15 AM
Great Work!

I have some questions:
1. When does it come out???
2. I see mac enviroment on the video. What about win?

meshpig
03-11-2010, 04:29 AM
Screw windows. I want:thumbsup:

geo_n
03-23-2010, 09:06 PM
up up

geothefaust
03-23-2010, 11:20 PM
Hot dang! Looking forward to this...

StereoMike
03-24-2010, 05:17 AM
Any news?

GraphXs
03-24-2010, 06:30 PM
Can't wait for it!

InfoCentral
03-25-2010, 08:52 AM
Looks very interesting. Would love to take it for a test drive!

data3d
03-26-2010, 11:54 AM
This tool will make life very interesting for many of us. Can't wait to see it released to the masses!! :thumbsup:

geo_n
04-09-2010, 07:46 AM
modo got it first. :mad:

http://www.hankendesigns.com/Portfolio/Scripts.html

MentalFish
04-09-2010, 08:00 AM
modo got it first. :mad:

http://www.hankendesigns.com/Portfolio/Scripts.html

Just to remind you, Keystone is a full LightWave file format API for Unity, not a lightmapping tool :thumbsup:

Cool to see more and improved workflows around though! The more the merrier with tools in the toolbox. :hammer:

I'll go an whack Rom in the head with a GSD stick though :twak:

Larry_g1s
04-09-2010, 09:29 AM
Just to remind you, Keystone is a full LightWave file format API for Unity, not a lightmapping tool :thumbsup:

Cool to see more and improved workflows around though! The more the merrier with tools in the toolbox. :hammer:

I'll go an whack Rom in the head with a GSD stick though :twak:Is a lightmap just a UV texture? If not, what's the difference? :stumped:

MentalFish
04-09-2010, 09:40 AM
Is a lightmap just a UV texture? If not, what's the difference? :stumped:

A lightmap = lighting stored in a texture, and overlaid the diffuse (color) texture. Projection is normally done via UVs describing where the texture should be placed on the geometry. UV = coordinates.

Keystone reads native LightWave file formats. If you have applied a lightmap in the luminosity channel in the material editor, then inside Unity that texture will be interpreted as a lightmap.

WillBellJr
04-09-2010, 05:48 PM
http://www.willbelljr.net/public/funnypics/enjoypeeking.gif

I like what I'm seeing with this so I'm going to keep an eye on its progress...


I'm just so glad to see Lightwave becoming a viable tool for use with Unity - frankly I'm betting a lot on it! :newtek:


-Will

tyrot
05-14-2010, 11:32 AM
hey mentalfish

any news?

MentalFish
05-14-2010, 02:31 PM
We are still working on it, and also ventured into other file formats we want to use, but nothing to announce as of yet and still no release date I am afraid.

It would be awesome if NewTek added secondary UV support in FBX export for now, that would be a great "tweener" for all of us Unity users to have in a production ready solution. I.e. just take the UVs that are used in either the diffuse or self illumination slots as the secondary UV when exporting to FBX.

Clemens
05-19-2010, 07:26 AM
http://www.willbelljr.net/public/funnypics/enjoypeeking.gif

I like what I'm seeing with this so I'm going to keep an eye on its progress...


I'm just so glad to see Lightwave becoming a viable tool for use with Unity - frankly I'm betting a lot on it! :newtek:


-Will

In the latest 3D World they are also using LW in the Unity iPhone Tutorial... I'm also looking forward to Keystone.

Andrewstopheles
05-19-2010, 09:02 AM
Looks awesome. Will Keystone be a commercial or a free plugin?

geothefaust
05-19-2010, 11:33 PM
I'm fairly certain Petter intends it to be commercial. That was a couple of weeks ago of course!

Shaun
07-05-2010, 10:45 PM
We have any news on Keystone yet?

MentalFish
07-06-2010, 04:46 PM
When more info is available, either me or Rommany will present it to y'all :thumbsup:

GraphXs
07-06-2010, 05:58 PM
I sure hopes its not the far away, can ya at least tell us what Keystone will provide us? Is it everything under the sun? LWS, LWO, bones, morphs, particles, materials, etc,etc to unity fo version 1?

tyrot
07-06-2010, 07:25 PM
mentalfish!.... we wanna be unityed!!!

Tzan
07-07-2010, 01:18 PM
When more info is available, either me or Rommany will present it to y'all :thumbsup:


I see you changed the title under your name :)

I think most people would be happy buying a simple
LW->Unity with what you have finished now.
Just guessing: UV2, bones animation, anything else is bonus.

I know you are working on a "philosophy". A friend of mine has a masters degree in philosophy, he works as a cubical drone now. :)

MentalFish
07-08-2010, 08:22 AM
If you use LW 9.6's built in FBX exporter, it works well for textured geometry and bone animated models. What it does not provide us but we could all have benefited from was the secondary UV export for lightmapped models (I have been hammering the feature-request on it since 2008).

With Unity 3.0 around the corner, you will have a world class, auto-unwrap-and-bake solution built into Unity, http://www.vimeo.com/13097549 , so it will be much easier and faster to also create the lightmaps.

So, the most important thing Keystone will bring to the table is the possibility of using other native LightWave file formats and properties that Unity or FBX initially does not support or handle. For now, the FBX version that comes with LightWave 9.6 is the one to go with and is the one I use for any and all Unity work I am doing myself. The only thing I would like to see the FBX export would handles is that it could be scripted via LScript (Like the OBJ exporter in Modeler), so I don't have to get that file requester bugging me for each time I want to update an FBX file (silent export to FBX and bring Unity to front please)

The current state of Keystone simply isn't production ready, so if we gave or sold you that version just to get LWO files to load in Unity, we would have an avalanche of feature requests and bug reports flooding our gates.

Also, we have paid projects that we need to get out of the way as well, so Keystone is not a full time project, so its a bit when, what, if... in terms of release dates and features.

Thats all I can give you for now I am afraid, but have no fear, there are cool things cookin :D

GraphXs
07-08-2010, 09:18 PM
Cook away, looking forward to Keystone. If it can bring morph data into unity then it will be a powerful tool because as far as I know Unity doesn't support morphs.

meshpig
07-09-2010, 02:53 AM
With Unity 3.0 around the corner...

Is that a new licence with the indie option still? How much for Keystone would you estimate?

GraphXs
07-09-2010, 06:07 AM
Unity 3 Light Map function looks amazing!!!

PeteS
07-13-2010, 12:47 PM
and..ON A MAC!!! Nice;-)

wulfie
08-14-2010, 08:09 PM
I'm really new at the game development stuff....I got hired for some 3D graphics which are to be used in Unity 3D. I don't personally own Unity 3D.

Keystone does look very useful but not released yet right? Is the only way to get textures and such into Unity 3D by using Blender at this time? I have a great looking Cancer Cell but the textures are done with IFW2 and lots of gradients. Does baking the surfaces to UV maps work? WHICH fbx setting do I use.

Any help will be greatly appreciated. This is work for a Cancer Foundation.

Thanks!

Bev Standish

MentalFish
08-15-2010, 05:27 AM
You can use the built in FBX exporter in LightWave 9.6 to get out animation and textures just fine. Item/pivotal animation and bones animation gets exported, but no morph animation. Baking all the advanced surface settings down into the UV's would work fine and come out when exporting via FBX.

One thing to keep in mind is that Unity is using a right hand coordinate system while LightWave uses a left hand system, so positive Z in LightWave is negative Z in Unity. So I basically set up everything backwards in LightWave, using -Z as the forward axis on items.

I use default settings:
Type: Binary
Version: 200611
No scaling

Only freezing sub-d if i use sub-d of course.

Elmar Moelzer
08-15-2010, 05:32 AM
You will (unless someone really goes overboard with that exporter) never be able to export more complex shaders that use gradients and procedurals to a game engine directly. You would have to write a shader in Unity that uses the same language.
If you are using things like incidence and light incidence gradients, then baking the texturing into a UVmap will not work, for obvious reasons.
I would probably bake the color and bump information into UV mapped textures and then do the rest in Unity.
There is a free version of Unity that should allow you to test your object with. I am not sure how much it allows you to do in regards to shaders, but you should take a look at that too.

Tzan
08-15-2010, 12:04 PM
You can write your own shaders in Unity (the free version).

I combined two existing shaders into Diffuse,Detail + Specular.
Took me about 6 hours since I had never used shaders before, but I do know how to program.

For Unity 3 they are changing the language for shaders, so I'll have to rewrite it. Its supposed to be easier.

wulfie
08-15-2010, 08:20 PM
Thank you all so very much for your input!

Bev

aurora
08-16-2010, 08:55 AM
Bev,
As mentioned, you can download Unity 2.6.1 after installing it will ask you to register it. At this time it will ask you if you want the full pro-version for 30 days or a non-pro version for free (no time limits).

There are some decent video and written tutorials and even a book for Unity game creation: Unity Game Development Essentials (http://www.amazon.com/Unity-Game-Development-Essentials-Goldstone/dp/184719818X). I'm doubt sure your schools library is like CU's which has electronic access (pdf's) to most any book printed, but if it does see if you have access to it.

You can find the differences in the Licenses here: http://unity3d.com/unity/licenses

jasonwestmas
09-30-2010, 12:12 PM
Scoping things out here. 8)

ZE_COLMEIA
10-01-2010, 01:37 AM
Unity 3 is out.

at the first sight it looks amazing indeed!

Shaun
10-01-2010, 02:01 AM
Unity 3 is out.

at the first sight it looks amazing indeed!

Now we really need that Keystone... even if it's in it's beta...

Shaun.

ZE_COLMEIA
10-01-2010, 02:06 AM
Petter's effort to make his convincing tool will help many developers. I am testing the lightmap solution and It looks very simple and effective.

Shaun
10-01-2010, 02:19 AM
Petter's effort to make his convincing tool will help many developers. I am testing the lightmap solution and It looks very simple and effective.

Would that be the new light mapping in version 3?

MentalFish
10-01-2010, 02:41 AM
Unity 3 is awesome!

In terms of file IO between LightWave and Unity, I think a re-visit of the ins and outs of the built in FBX exporter in LightWave is in its place. I think the main challenge between LightWave and Unity via FBX is some weighting of bones and pivot related issues. I might do a screencast of how it works / not works.

If only the LightWave FBX exporter was scriptable through LScript, we could do cool "send to Unity" scripts and other automagic things. LightWave's OBJ exporter has this possibility, but not the FBX (it always pops up with a file requester nag, so automization is a no go).

Native LightWave file formats in Unity will be a bit of a technical and support-wise challenge, and Keystone as it is right now is nowhere near a beta stage, or even alpha for that matter. You have seen a native LightWave model load in Unity, but if the geometry changed a little, it might not have loaded due to expectations in how the data was being parsed and re-constructed in Unity.

So if you had access to Keystone as is and add some details to your model, i.e. some untextured polygons, you might get a cascade of errors when the reader / parser in Unity expects something that isn't there. And that's only for static models. What about weight mapped, animated, characters...

What I am saying is in essence, don't expect Keystone to be available (any time soon), and please keep in mind that FBX is considered the native format of Unity. I think we as users of LightWave and Unity, would get the best pipeline if NewTek would make sure LightWave plays nice with Unity through FBX and add a couple of hooks to FBX so its scriptable through LScript in the same manner as its OBJ exporter is.

Also, with the push towards a Collada'ish driven Core, the native LightWave file format is on its way out (which is a shame, as the principle of text based scene files and binary geometry files is pretty schweet).

We'll see, but for now, don't expect any usable Keystone solution this side of 2010. Sorry for being such a party pooper.

ZE_COLMEIA
10-01-2010, 03:00 AM
Thanks for the update, even a not good one, you created a huge expectative here buddy!

;)

"Would that be the new light mapping in version 3? "

Mate, its a complete new workflow here, now you can ask unity to make your lightmap UV and you can ask Unity to bake the scene lights in your static objects.
The shader itself is complete different too, now the lightmap has the strenght that everybody wanted and the legacy lightmap shader is still available.

Its amazing indeed and a very smart and easy-to-use feature. I didnt test it much, I just tried 3 lightmaps for complex scenarios but I still dont know if we can use that automated atlas uv map from unity out of there to make our own light in a more developed render tool , such as lightwave.

Elmar Moelzer
10-01-2010, 03:23 AM
Yeah, I have been following Unity for a while. Unity 3 turned out really well and the results are good enough for a wide variety of even AAA titles, not just indy titles. It might not produce results good enough for the next AAA ego shooter, but it looks good enough for pretty much everything else.
The bootcamp demo here sure does look pretty good!
http://unity3d.com/gallery/live-demos/index.html#bootcamp

(make sure to turn on SSAO in the options, it does cause some issues when you look at the landscape from above, but it does look really good once you are on the ground and walk arround)

Walfridson has written a FBX exporter that supports multiple UV maps.
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111624

In case you have not seen it yet, you should really check it out!
Unfortunately, it currently only supports static FBX files and I dont know whether he has had time to continue development of it.
If enough people here send him some encouraging messages, maybe he would be willing to put more work into it.

jasonwestmas
10-01-2010, 06:27 AM
Cool Elmar, I posted over there, maybe he has some knowledge in that dept. There was this guy named Tunah who I helped test out his SMD (Valve source) exporter for character animation back in the LW8.5 days. Turned out really nicely, the IK influences exported and everything.

GraphXs
10-01-2010, 07:13 AM
It's to bad Keystone native LW to Unity won't be ready for.....well I guess maybe never. I was looking forward to it being a amazing solution for LW>Unity pipeline. Also was looking forward to the extra stuff like have Unity work with Lightwave morphs.

It would be nice if the FBX "do and don't" gets explained. Maybe LW 10 FBX can be expanded through script.

I really want Newtek and Lightwave to part of the game, and with a sound Unity process that could help sell lots of LW....I can dream can't I.

Elmar Moelzer
10-01-2010, 07:43 AM
and with a sound Unity process that could help sell lots of LW....

That is what I am thinking too. According to the developers of Unity, there are now more than 100,000 Unity users out there. That is a huge market, IMHO.
Since Unity is often used by iPhone developers and LW is also available on the Mac (and most competing apps are not), there is a huge potential there. LW is also much cheaper than the competition which should go really well with the indy/small budget iPhone developers.
I think it would be perfect. NT just has to take the chance and run with it!

GraphXs
10-01-2010, 07:53 PM
Yes! Newtek Please, Please don't miss this boat......Get in the game.....Heck hire MentalFish to create the plug-in to get LWS/LWO into Unity and put it in LW 10. Another enhanced "I/O" feature just like FBX,etc. Or improve on FBX to have a "unity" setting.

Then show up at GDC in a booth right next to the Unity Booth and show how nice Lightwave "IO" plays with Unity!!!!! I bet it would be the talk of GDC and you will sell lots of copies!

MentalFish
10-02-2010, 11:38 AM
Yes! Newtek Please, Please don't miss this boat......Get in the game.....Heck hire MentalFish to create the plug-in to get LWS/LWO into Unity and put it in LW 10. Another enhanced "I/O" feature just like FBX,etc. Or improve on FBX to have a "unity" setting.

Then show up at GDC in a booth right next to the Unity Booth and show how nice Lightwave "IO" plays with Unity!!!!! I bet it would be the talk of GDC and you will sell lots of copies!

I agree, hire me NT :) but for this LWO/LWS in Unity, hire Rommany and Alexx. I am primarily a middleman here. A newbie amongst giants.

StereoMike
10-03-2010, 04:41 PM
But you could do the protopack enhancements meanwhile ;P

ZE_COLMEIA
10-03-2010, 11:40 PM
Hey guys, does anybody know how to export an fbx file from unity?
I found an article that somebody said that it is possible.

thanks!

MentalFish
10-04-2010, 08:23 AM
But you could do the protopack enhancements meanwhile ;P

Lalalala I am not listening! Just kidding, it will be done, but after the current pile of things with a deadline this week.


Hey guys, does anybody know how to export an fbx file from unity?
I found an article that somebody said that it is possible.

thanks!

I have never heard or seen any such feature. Where is the article?

ZE_COLMEIA
10-04-2010, 09:17 AM
Here, where I found it:

http://masteranza.wordpress.com/2009/07/21/project-no-3-unity-vray-tools/


"The lightmapping process works in 4 steps:

1. Go through the scene and pack rectangle UV coordinates into a texture sheet. They can be stored in the renderer using lightmap tiling and offset: http://unity3d.com/support/documentation/ScriptReference/Renderer-lightmapTilingOffset.html
2. Create an FBX file from Unity scene. Export both the primary and secondary uv set with the packed UV coordinates. This means that we “offset-scale pack” the per object uv’s we have, into a new “baked uv sheet”. (FBX supports Ascii mode, so it’s quite easy to export)
3. Launch Max from inside Unity through the commandline batchmode interface, automatically open the exported FBX file and start the lightmapping process
4. Once the batchmode completes, Unity imports the textures and applies them to the renderers using the Lightmap Settings class and renderer.lightmapIndex.
"
I hope my english isnt tricking me :D I am awake for 2 days trying to fix some little problems in my project.

StereoMike
10-05-2010, 03:19 AM
No problem, Petter, just wanted to tease you a bit!

JaredSCrowell
01-14-2011, 12:56 PM
Been a few months since the last post, Just wondering if there is any update on Keystone... Sounds awesome by the way!

Thanks

Emmanuel
08-02-2011, 08:44 AM
Is this still coming ? I have been looking into Blender and SoftImage mod tool to do the job, I would rather stay within LW, but "Keystone" seems more like "Tombstone" in 2011.

tyrot
08-02-2011, 09:04 AM
i hope it is not TOMBstone !

MentalFish
08-21-2011, 12:28 PM
Sorry peeps, there is no getting hold of Rommany now, so you can only assume this will not be released. Use LW 10.1 and its FBX exporter.

Elmar Moelzer
08-21-2011, 03:55 PM
Unfortunately, I have seen this way to often. A plugin project is really cool and interesting, gets more and more complex and is finally abandoned when the developer runs out of breath during the last mile (usually the beta phase, as fixing bugs ist just not as much fun). It almost happened to us during the development of VoluMedic and we barely made it.
This is why I would like to recommend to all 3rd party devs to rather save some features for version 2.0 and bring out 1.0 while you still have energy and momentum to finish it.

GraphXs
08-22-2011, 07:35 AM
Thatz too bad, I was looking forward to the Unity LW UI stuff that keystone hinted at: Morphs, weights, etc. Oh well, at least we do have 10.1. Keystone could of helped sell a lot of LW/Unity seats.

Emmanuel
08-22-2011, 08:24 AM
Well, unless NewTek has something similiar in the works, its again another example of how they miss a boat :/
Sometimes, Autodesk with their "buy all and incorporate it" is just so much more user friendly.

Elmar Moelzer
08-22-2011, 08:42 AM
Well, unless NewTek has something similiar in the works, its again another example of how they miss a boat :/
In this case, it was not finished yet, so it would have been premature for NT to get involved. From what I gather, the new FBX exporter is working pretty well with Unity though.

geo_n
08-22-2011, 09:00 AM
There's some info burried in this thread forum regarding lightwave and unity workflow.
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1176007#post1176007
Excellent plugin too!

Emmanuel
08-22-2011, 09:49 AM
Hm, no tahts nice, I prefer morph based facial animation.

faulknermano
08-23-2011, 08:37 PM
This is why I would like to recommend to all 3rd party devs to rather save some features for version 2.0 and bring out 1.0 while you still have energy and momentum to finish it.

That's a good suggestion. :)

In my case, I would only have the drive if I myself needed it for work/project.

adk
08-23-2011, 09:51 PM
That's a good suggestion. :)

In my case, I would only have the drive if I myself needed it for work/project.


Lucky for us you have that work/projects that in turn benefit us all :thumbsup: Janus being case in point I guess, but that also goes for all your awesome scripts / plugins over the years.

So I :bowdown: to all developers that have helped their work/project & hence my own cause over the years. Cheers a great big bunch to you all :D !