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meshpig
03-08-2010, 01:51 AM
It's 2010 and you still hear people say things like "Sport is so great because it eliminates class distinction" and "photography is the art of the people"
... well, you know? What terrible euphemisms. The fact is there's only one class and you're either with it or against it.

The blame lies squarely with the BBC regarding sport you must admit but the Oscars are like a contemporaneous King Ludwig II; A big glitzy show as if the Aristocracy was never a penny pinching bureaucracy.

-: "An administrator in a bureaucratic world is a man who can feel big by merging his non-entity in an abstraction. A real person in touch with real things inspires terror in him". Marshall McLuhan.

glebe digital
03-08-2010, 02:30 AM
"Go back to bed America, your government is in control. Here's American Gladiators; Watch this, shut up, go back to bed, here's 56 channels of it! Watch these pituitary retards bang their f**king skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom.”
BH

Never been happier since I ditched my TV.

-EsHrA-
03-08-2010, 03:39 AM
BH for God!

OnlineRender
03-08-2010, 03:44 AM
does anybody now have the strange urge for a can of Diet Coke .........?
"What does G13 do ?"
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edit
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Why would you want to BAN a free night of hot woman and drink ? If i was at the Oscars I would be like "take that biaaatches" .........................one day ......oneday !

meshpig
03-08-2010, 03:46 AM
Oh well, as it goes. No TV, no woman, no hearth...

-The connection with the inanity of sport is how after 3 hours of excruciating suspense you've witnessed countless times already (boredom) all you hear is the same bleating; "it's an honor", "I'm honored to receive this award".

It's kinda dumb as and it warps the entire enterprise of film into the
brain numbing business of advertising.

jin choung
03-08-2010, 03:54 AM
It's kinda dumb as and it warps the entire enterprise of film into the
brain numbing business of advertising.

the entire enterprise of film IS the brain numbing business of advertising. and concessions stand sales. and dvd sales. and tertiary merchandise.

like it or not it's an expensive hobby.

film, as hollywood does it, is EVERY BIT as much as commerce as it is art.

and i mean, EVERY BIT. it is INSEPARABLE. it is impossible to consider the "art of the hollywood movie" without considering the commerce of it all.

if you watch movies where vfx, cgi, or even lw is at all involved, you can't knock commerce. it literally pays the bills.

jin

biliousfrog
03-08-2010, 03:56 AM
Sandra Bollocks wins an Oscar for a film where she plays a middle-class white woman that 'rescues' a fat black kid from the ghetto and shows him that he can do 'better' by becoming more like her false, stuck-up friends and family...true story or not it's a TV movie at best and, at worst, it's downright demeaning and derogatory.

Any awards ceremony that isn't voted for by the target audience is a joke in my book. It's purely a way to get more publicity and sell more tickets. I don't need an 'expert' to tell me whether a film is well directed or well acted, I can make up my own mind thank you.

meshpig
03-08-2010, 04:03 AM
does anybody now have the strange urge for a can of Diet Coke .........?
"What does G13 do ?"
-------------------------------------------
edit
-------------------------------------------
Why would you want to BAN a free night of hot woman and drink ? If i was at the Oscars I would be like "take that biaaatches" .........................one day ......oneday !

You're most likely being affected by the "Aspertame" in Diet Coke...:) There are free nights of hot women and drinks everywhere if you think that's what it's all about?

jin choung
03-08-2010, 04:12 AM
It's purely a way to get more publicity and sell more tickets.

and your point is...? srsly, was this ever at all in doubt? it's kinda like b1tching that christians are religious... uhhhhh.... YEAH.



I don't need an 'expert' to tell me whether a film is well directed or well acted, I can make up my own mind thank you.

here's the thing - there's a great swathe of middle of america that for some reason likes jay leno and watched "home improvement". and they all say that - that they can make up their own minds.

they also feel like they are qualified to render final judgment on everything from global warming to macro-economics to genetics.

they can.

but they probably shouldn't.

not at all to imply that you're on that level.

but all in all, generally speaking, experts are good to have and shouldn't be disparaged and we should probably in all likelihood defer to them for most things.

but in relating it back to your first point, yeah, the oscars is more of a PR spectacle and exercise in politics than a meritocracy so it's not really the exercise of experts in pure form anyway.

but i'm glad sandra bullock won. she seems like good people.

jin

meshpig
03-08-2010, 04:38 AM
the entire enterprise of film IS the brain numbing business of advertising. and concessions stand sales. and dvd sales. and tertiary merchandise.

like it or not it's an expensive hobby.

film, as hollywood does it, is EVERY BIT as much as commerce as it is art.

and i mean, EVERY BIT. it is INSEPARABLE. it is impossible to consider the "art of the hollywood movie" without considering the commerce of it all.

if you watch movies where vfx, cgi, or even lw is at all involved, you can't knock commerce. it literally pays the bills.

jin

Yes it's a fact, the promise of Art as it was for the better half of the last century (?) is as promises usually are, mere bluster. Art is an Industry.

We all know that but what do you think of the celebration of "Captains of Industry" when in the guise of "artists"?

jin choung
03-08-2010, 04:57 AM
We all know that but what do you think of the celebration of "Captains of Industry" when in the guise of "artists"?

see, hollywood film is every bit as much commerce as it is art but that's not to say that there is NO art.

it is inseparable. hand in hand. but one does not nullify the other outright.

i doubt you can call cinematographers "captains of industry". there is art involved and there is merit involved and there is politics involved and there is commerce involved.

you can't really reduce it to one thing or the other.

like most things hollywood, it is one big grand expensive spectacle and the best way to enjoy it is to just.... enjoy it. or not. if it's not your thing, it's not your thing. and that's fine.

best quote about hollywood:

"charlie chaplin tried to entertain and created art. some people try to create art and they don't even entertain."

it's not "pure". it NEVER was pure. from the lumiere brothers to melies to d.w. griffith to chaplin and keaton and harold lloyd and fritz lang on up to orson wells and hitchcock, at the end of the day, it's about "getting @s$es in seats." as much "art" as there ever was, it was just as much good ol' fashioned snake oil salesmanship and carnival freakshow.

and that's fine.

and it is just exactly this system that produced citizen kane, king kong, vertigo, taxi driver, the godfather, bonnie and clyde, etc etc etc.

just like architecture is as much about beauty and space as it is about keeping the goddam roof from collapsing.

yes, architecture and film - "purity" need not apply. art - yes. science - yes. engineering - yes. commerce - yes. purity - absolutely not.

jin

glebe digital
03-08-2010, 05:08 AM
I see 'artifice' in Hollywood but not much Art.......more like a merry-go-round of 'wallpaper to eat popcorn by' & lots self-congratulatory gong-swapping.

No offense.....people still gotta eat and live......


La Dolce Vita-Fellini-Finale
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Opglbu1NTY

http://unhappyhipsters.com/

jin choung
03-08-2010, 05:15 AM
I see 'artifice' in Hollywood but not much Art

that's pretty broad.

orson welles, alfred hitchcock, howard hawks, john ford, william wyler, scorsese, coppola, spielberg, lucas [grudgingly], etc etc etc... all products of hollywood.

nobody's starving but a lot of art.

or put it another way - you ask the most respected film critics from all over the world to list the top movies of all time and a LOT of hollywood product (and yes, i do mean PRODUCT) is gonna be there.

jin

glebe digital
03-08-2010, 05:40 AM
Nice list of exceptions, some I agree with.......Welles, Hitchcock....

Matt
03-08-2010, 06:18 AM
Sandra Bollocks

LOL, I pressume that wasn't a spelling mistake!

Re: The film industry, money grabbing commercial entity or not, I love films, they have afforded me with some wonderful moments, the world would be a duller place without them.

Titus
03-08-2010, 07:06 AM
I don't have any problems with Hollywood... once I understood that Oscars is a ceremony for and to the Hollywood people. BTW, my former boss won an Oscar last year (Benjamin Button), and I was sincerely happy.

meshpig
03-08-2010, 07:08 AM
see, hollywood film is every bit as much commerce as it is art but that's not to say that there is NO art.

it is inseparable. hand in hand. but one does not nullify the other outright.

i doubt you can call cinematographers "captains of industry". there is art involved and there is merit involved and there is politics involved and there is commerce involved.

you can't really reduce it to one thing or the other.

like most things hollywood, it is one big grand expensive spectacle and the best way to enjoy it is to just.... enjoy it. or not. if it's not your thing, it's not your thing. and that's fine.

best quote about hollywood:

"charlie chaplin tried to entertain and created art. some people try to create art and they don't even entertain."

it's not "pure". it NEVER was pure. from the lumiere brothers to melies to d.w. griffith to chaplin and keaton and harold lloyd and fritz lang on up to orson wells and hitchcock, at the end of the day, it's about "getting @s$es in seats." as much "art" as there ever was, it was just as much good ol' fashioned snake oil salesmanship and carnival freakshow.

and that's fine.

and it is just exactly this system that produced citizen kane, king kong, vertigo, taxi driver, the godfather, bonnie and clyde, etc etc etc.

just like architecture is as much about beauty and space as it is about keeping the goddam roof from collapsing.

yes, architecture and film - "purity" need not apply. art - yes. science - yes. engineering - yes. commerce - yes. purity - absolutely not.

jin

That said what do you make of Greg Lynn?

http://www.glform.com/

I mean all the mataball stuff and don't just wax lyrical.

The "Marvelous Ambersons" too, you might remember isn't exactly the best film ever made.

m

Ernest
03-08-2010, 04:40 PM
Nice list of exceptions, some I agree with.......Welles, Hitchcock....But of course they are exceptions! They have to be, by definition. Weren't Fellini and Antonioni also exceptions in Italy?

Every artist, no matter what medium or what place of work she happens to be in has to be an exception. Otherwise, she is not an artist.

Hollywood's triumph and its tragedy is that they can finance 1000 aspiring artists until a rare true artist emerges.

mikala
03-08-2010, 04:59 PM
Oh look yet another happy thread :)

lwaddict
03-09-2010, 12:39 PM
Uh, you people still watch the Oscars?

lwaddict
03-09-2010, 12:41 PM
Oh look yet another happy thread :)


Point made, but these guys are far more entertaining than anything on tv right now. LOL

Titus
03-09-2010, 02:33 PM
Uh, you people still watch the Oscars?

Missed the Oscar this year, had a Coldplay concert :o

shrox
03-09-2010, 05:16 PM
I don't have a TV, nor do I have any interest in awards. Unless it's for me and involves cash and valuable prizes.

lwaddict
03-10-2010, 07:22 AM
Well then, you may already be a winner!

Wait...
he's dead.

Nevermind. :hey:

meshpig
03-10-2010, 07:40 AM
I don't have a TV, nor do I have any interest in awards. Unless it's for me and involves cash and valuable prizes.

You mean glittering prizes?

shrox
03-10-2010, 08:08 AM
You mean glittering prizes?

Ooooo...glittering....mmm.

THREEL
03-10-2010, 11:57 AM
Hey Mesh! Are you ever happy about anything?!

meshpig
03-11-2010, 02:57 AM
Hey Mesh! Are you ever happy about anything?!

I dunno, why is being irritated by the Oscars a sign of not being happy about things? OK, I've put my foot in it there but TV is a pet hate for sure because unavoidable, unarguable and film is ultimately going down the same tube.

I think the way Language works too is that expressing the negative is always more palpable than that of the positive; it's easier or more economical, to say no than yes. Like try saying yes to a dog when they understand No perfectly well. Get my drift?

Or, the Barrister says;"you're free to do what you like so long as it doesn't involve breaking the law". ie. you aren't free to do what you like.

Otherwise, Yep. As you get older you definitely have to watch out for this old age s**t:)

glebe digital
03-11-2010, 04:59 AM
Emberto Eco reckons that you start life thinking everyone's cleverer than you, then as you get older this erodes to equilibrium around 40 years [where half of people are idiots, the other half not] finally you reach a position at the end of your life -where your experience tells you- that everyone else is completely stupid......timed to perfection, you won't mind leaving the idiots to themselves when your inevitable trip with the ferryman comes.

Raising my glass to the stupids! :D
Happy Happy Joy Joy

Nick Drake - River Man
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9HRo-9mqrQ

meshpig
03-12-2010, 08:31 AM
Schopenhauer/Nietszche before Umberto Eco and the obvious flaw there is you're teetering on the same edge with no concept at hand:)

It makes you think!

meshpig
03-14-2010, 01:17 AM
Emberto Eco reckons that you start life thinking everyone's cleverer than you, then as you get older this erodes to equilibrium around 40 years [where half of people are idiots, the other half not] finally you reach a position at the end of your life -where your experience tells you- that everyone else is completely stupid......timed to perfection, you won't mind leaving the idiots to themselves when your inevitable trip with the ferryman comes.

Raising my glass to the stupids! :D
Happy Happy Joy Joy

Nick Drake - River Man
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9HRo-9mqrQ


gd

- "... finally you reach a position at the end of your life -where your experience tells you- that everyone else is completely stupid..."

Oh well, so much for Umberto Eco. Jean Paul Satre said the same thing 50 years prior and still ended up being only an essay.

shrox
03-14-2010, 08:51 AM
Emberto Eco reckons that you start life thinking everyone's cleverer than you, then as you get older this erodes to equilibrium around 40 years [where half of people are idiots, the other half not] finally you reach a position at the end of your life -where your experience tells you- that everyone else is completely stupid......timed to perfection, you won't mind leaving the idiots to themselves when your inevitable trip with the ferryman comes.

Raising my glass to the stupids! :D
Happy Happy Joy Joy

Nick Drake - River Man
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9HRo-9mqrQ

Emberto didn't know me.

meshpig
03-15-2010, 01:49 AM
Emberto didn't know me.

Ha, "Emberto" never knew anyone. Unless we're talking about erratic vowel advancement... It's Umberto.

shrox
03-15-2010, 01:53 AM
Ha, "Emberto" never knew anyone. Unless we're talking about erratic vowel advancement... It's Umberto.

If you look at the keyboard you'll see the U is close to the...well, it's near the... OK, it's no where near the E...

glebe digital
03-15-2010, 03:59 AM
"Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see."
Arthur Schopenhauer

shrox
03-15-2010, 08:40 AM
"Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see."
Arthur Schopenhauer

I've always been special. Even my second grade report card said "does not work well with others."

glebe digital
03-16-2010, 05:29 AM
Actor: The Theatre isnít what is was.

Virgil: No. And Iíll tell you another thing, it never was was it was.