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Murphu222
02-23-2010, 09:27 AM
82501Hi. I have tried to make this before without much success. I have been trying Boolean Subtract using an extruded disc on a half ball, but I can't seem to get the holes positioned correctly. I actually want to make holes, not texture map them.
I did see William's video about making a grille, but this is a different design. If anyone has any ideas I'd appreciate them.
Thanks!

OnlineRender
02-23-2010, 09:38 AM
I don't now about anybody else and I reckon they probably would have a better suggestion .

remember that the mesh properly started off as a slab of metal then punched . thats how I would do it .

Create a flat plane in layer 1
create your disc for the hole . use clone and the numeric values .in layer 2
Create 2 lines of holes and off center .clone untill it fits
then shift b -subtract .

I'm over looking something ??. make it like a seamless texture so you can wrap it .

SBowie
02-23-2010, 09:54 AM
I'm pretty sure one of William Vaughn's video tutorials covers this nicely.

OnlineRender
02-23-2010, 10:06 AM
you mentioned illustrator i would just trace this image then save EPS and import to MOD .

http://www.stock-textures.com/images/wallpapers/44719319/Metal/Metals.Ornamental%20Metals.Plate.Mesh.jpg

WilliamVaughan
02-23-2010, 10:12 AM
I would do it the same way I did the other mesh. If you look at your reference image above you'll see that the holes deform as they hit the curve. If you modeled a flat sheet with this hole pattern then followe dthe video you could get this pretty fast. I would work with a 2d sheet and then give it thickness after it was deformed to speed things up and give you an easier way to try different thickness.

The strip of metal that seperates the two halves will allow you to hide the messy edge.

Should go relatively fast.

WilliamVaughan
02-23-2010, 10:13 AM
ps- I would createthe mesh with SubD as well

WilliamVaughan
02-23-2010, 10:21 AM
Here is a quick objetc you can duplicate as many times as you need to create the mesh

khan973
02-23-2010, 10:21 AM
Make it flat, put a parent object with the same size.
Run a cloth simulation on the parent object over the "pill" shaped object.
Use MetaLink under "properties" > "deform".
Your object will then have the shape of the parented cloth so it will have the exact same shape you wanted.

I made it short, I hop you understand.

OnlineRender
02-23-2010, 10:24 AM
I would do it the same way I did the other mesh. If you look at your reference image above you'll see that the holes deform as they hit the curve. If you modeled a flat sheet with this hole pattern then followe dthe video you could get this pretty fast. I would work with a 2d sheet and then give it thickness after it was deformed to speed things up and give you an easier way to try different thickness.

The strip of metal that seperates the two halves will allow you to hide the messy edge.

Should go relatively fast.

easy as pie ......


I reckon they probably would have a better suggestion .




TOLD YA /\

littlewaves
02-23-2010, 11:04 AM
I had a bit of a play at seeing if I could do this and sort of came up with something but while I was doing it you all posted other solutions which are probably better but anyway being as I made notes as I was going along...

1. Tesselated ball 8 segments and 25 mm radius (use numerics panel)

2. Make sure it's centered (either in numerics panel before dropping ball tool or just hit F2 afterwards)

3. select all polys in the bottom half of the ball

4. shift+left square bracket to deselect the top row of that selection.

5. delete what you have selected. You should now be left with the top haf of the ball plus a row of polys just below the center axis

6. in the statistics panel select the points that have only 3 polys (this is actually just the bottom row and you probably don't really need to use the statistics panel to do this.

7. with your selection mode set to "selection" hit "h" and stretch the points in the Y down to zero percent so they are all level vertically.

8. now hit shift+h and size out the points slightly so that they are more or less equal to the next row up in diameter.

9. deselect the points and hit F3 to rest the entire mesh on ground.

10. now grab the bottom row of polys and mirror them in the Y

11. desect and hit F3 to rest the mesh on ground again

12. grab the bottom two rows, mirror Y, deselect and F3

13. grap the bottom 4 rows, mirror Y, deselect and F3

14. you can repeat this until you have the desired height then go two extra rows.

15. deselect everything and hit "m" to merge points

16. select all but the bottom row of points and using Rounder with the numeric panel set to "edges" 1 rounding polygon and 1mm inset distance.

17. select the bottom row of polys and hit shift +RightSquare Bracket to expand to the next row up hit delete

18. in poly statistics select >4 vertices

19. bevel them (numeric panel again) shift -200um no inset.

20. bevel again with -1mm shift and then delete the still selected n-gons

21. hit tab.

22. you'll need to make an interior but this can just be a half ball with the bottom extruded down


Doesn't take anywhere near as long to do as my instructions make it look but anyway I've attached the result.

Credit where credit is due I got the first part from a forum post William made ages ago about a quick and easy golf ball.

SBowie
02-23-2010, 11:37 AM
I'm pretty sure one of William Vaughn's video tutorials covers this nicely.Ya know, I didn't bother to expand the thumbnail image you added below before replying.

If I had, I'd have immediately seen that this mesh was of a different sort than the one I remember from the video I referred to, sorry. The latter was a typical woven-wire mesh. I thought the solution was pretty cool, even if it isn't relevant to the current need.

cagey5
02-23-2010, 11:55 AM
There's also some golf ball modelling tutorials that may be worth tracking down because the hole population is very similar to the dimple population in golf balls.

Murphu222
02-26-2010, 09:10 AM
Thanks for all the replies. I had done Williams tutorial for another project and it works well. The real RCA Microphone was made similarly, but was pressed against a template instead of a ball. I'll keep at it!
Murphy

shrox
02-26-2010, 09:16 AM
One thing I like about Lightwave is all the different approaches one can take. I am sure the same is true with other packages, but to LW seems more intuitive, like you are a level closer to real "electric clay"

jeric_synergy
07-01-2015, 06:23 PM
Natively, we have two types of spheres: globe-style and tessalators.

Are there any other TYPES that might be handy to code up?

LITTLEWAVE: damn son! :bowdown:

ernpchan
07-01-2015, 07:00 PM
Natively, we have two types of spheres: globe-style and tessalators.

Are there any other TYPES that might be handy to code up?

LITTLEWAVE: damn son! :bowdown:

Quad sphere

https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/entry/quad-sphere/

jeric_synergy
07-01-2015, 07:15 PM
I was following Littlewave's directions no problem up to the step with (guess??).... Rounder. Dang it.

Beautiful results though.

prometheus
07-01-2015, 09:41 PM
Natively, we have two types of spheres: globe-style and tessalators.

Are there any other TYPES that might be handy to code up?

LITTLEWAVE: damn son! :bowdown:

not sphere type, however dome is useful, but you might already know about that one, wish it was native and as an additional option in the sphere tool though...
https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/entry/dome-maker/

about the sphere, I also wish the sphere in tesselate mode would be zymmetrical, it seems it isnīt, the sphere in tesselate mode is nice to use with selection of points and using rounder to create holes,
without the need to reconnect points within polyīs that are ngons, you can apply rounder with a rounding poly of 1 and mesh density low, convexity in and it will create a bevel inset that is all connected in four point polys, so by deselecting the tool but keeping the point selection the convert point to poly selection and then delete those poly faces..you almost got perfect holes and you can even use merge trigons to get it to quads and it will also be retaining the holes and four point poly connections properly...

however, one would like it to be symmetrical...the workaround I do is to
create the tesselated sphere first, then just delete the mid lower part, then use mirror y, then it will be symmetrical and will work nicely as quads(by using merge trigons) too when working in symmetry.
with a standard sphere in globe mode, you can not perform the rounder and keep it four point polys and you have to fix that manually afterwards.

Michael

tonyrizo2003
07-02-2015, 12:19 AM
here you go, this saved me a butt load of time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GScERUkfm1M

jeric_synergy
07-02-2015, 12:53 AM
not sphere type, however dome is useful, but y
Prom, while that seems useful, I meant something as different as globe is to tesselate. For example, I think that there are VARIOUS types of geodesic formulas and that 'tessalate' is just one of them.

Like, maybe, one with courses of bricks that are staggered.

Or maybe this: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:14-frequency_icosahedral_geodesic_sphere_dual.png

128793

jeric_synergy
07-02-2015, 01:36 AM
Or this:
128794

spherical
07-02-2015, 02:53 AM
the sphere in tesselate mode is nice to use with selection of points and using rounder to create holes,
without the need to reconnect points within polyīs that are ngons, you can apply rounder with a rounding poly of 1 and mesh density low, convexity in and it will create a bevel inset that is all connected in four point polys, so by deselecting the tool but keeping the point selection the convert point to poly selection and then delete those poly faces..you almost got perfect holes and you can even use merge trigons to get it to quads and it will also be retaining the holes and four point poly connections properly...

OK. Ya lost me... again. How about a quick video of this sequence?

prometheus
07-02-2015, 06:51 AM
OK. Ya lost me... again. How about a quick video of this sequence?

I could probably cook it up later this evening, got some washing to do and itīs just the first real hot summer day this day at 28 degrees celsius in stockholm, so Im not sure I should spend time in front of the computer.
will try and record later a quite simple showcase...I was also messing with wings3d, it has some nice bevel function working both on points and on edges, on edges it works much nicer than lightwaves edge bevel or chamfer, meaning it is easier to select stuff and also get a perfect bevel that is also highlighted directly as polygon selection directly after the edge bevel, thus itīs so easy to extrude or extrude a shell which makes additional geometry free for subdiv by itself, I think I mentioned that before but have to showcase that too.

Michael

tonyrizo2003
07-02-2015, 08:05 AM
Jeric, take a look at the video I posted as that is what helped me. You're looking to create a truncated Icosahedron, or something like this? http://www.popdome.com/domemaker-products
Here is a quick screengrab of the microphone I created (WIP) with the video from above.
128795

jeric_synergy
07-02-2015, 09:15 AM
I'm just following the excellent discussion, and saying that a few more options in sphere types would be welcome-- and I'm sure all the math is already covered extensively.

Each type seems to lend itself to different solutions-- look at what starting with tesselate gets you to-- so having a few more options would probably lead to other slick procedures. PLUS, with all the known math already done, implementation should be easy. For a professional programmer, a bit of a holiday probably.

prometheus
07-02-2015, 09:21 AM
Itīs also super easy to use wings3d for creating the holes in a dome or like above, just pick the points bevel it, then use a subdiv smoothing, it will automaticly connect faces so when importing to lightwave it will be working with subdiv patches, I can see some small pinching though that I need to check how to get rid of.

Oh...there is of course the platonic solid tools, and variations like icosahedron, which you could subdiv a few times to get a different style of sphere, would be nice if they in the future could be interactive and if you could set a metform or subdiv level within the platonic solid tool.

Michael

tonyrizo2003
07-02-2015, 09:43 AM
@Jeric, I agree with you completely there are a couple of lscripts that can create domes, spheres but nothing like truncated Icosahedron natively in lightwave. Then again, I have no idea how to use the 3D Parametric Surface Object and if that could be used.

prometheus
07-02-2015, 10:13 AM
OK. Ya lost me... again. How about a quick video of this sequence?



here ya go...simple process to showcase difference between the globe and tesselated sphere modes when cutting the rounded points/polygons.....you can of course remesh the globe type afterwards, like selecting all the polys surrounding
the holes and shift-T for tripling it for best symmetric results, then it would work... though it might be nice and fast to use tesselated at some time without the need of doing that.

Dont think it might be perfect circular though...might need more rounding.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GBvl8CIDIA



Another cool trick would be to create a sphere/tesselation..then run the modify/detail/fix pole, then in the polygon statistics panel select all the polys with 3 vertices, then delete...voila instant holes all over, though they create ngons, so that is an issue, could perhaps switch to catmull clark subpatches and freeze at a lower level.

Guess I need to record that too...
Edited...yep works nicely, there is a bit of pinching after catmull clark freezing ..but spherize fixes that to a smooth round sphere.


Michael

stokeymike
07-02-2015, 10:22 AM
Why not try Topmod ?
https://www.viz.tamu.edu/faculty/ergun/research/topology/download.html

prometheus
07-02-2015, 10:49 AM
Why not try Topmod ?
https://www.viz.tamu.edu/faculty/ergun/research/topology/download.html

works that too as well as wings3d, however..I often get crashes with topmod, to many for me to enjoy it.

both wings3d and topmod gets a bit slow after a certain level of subdivisions, now..none of them uses subpatches...but even lightwave with freezed subdivisions handles the data much faster than topmod or wings3d.

tonyrizo2003
07-02-2015, 11:41 AM
very cool!! Thanks :)

prometheus
07-02-2015, 12:19 PM
hereīs another one...

the description is there in the comments,But I include it here too...

hereīs another approach of making holes in a sphere, not perfect circular perhaps, but a different way. ....
Here I simply create a tesselated sphere, then run the fix pole command, which will create a sort of bevel inset around the points, then select all the polys with 3 vertices, then delete.
it creates ngons, so I used the catmull clark subdiv, then ctrl-d to freeze it, then switch back to standard subpatches, then use spherize to round it all up, finally a little thicken, before the chicken goes in to the oven :)

Edited....to note, you could use chamfer on all points too, that gives a very nice dodecahedron style of faces, I think it is called, though I have been getting crashes a lot when using it.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaXh9fqyPMQ

tonyrizo2003
07-03-2015, 03:17 PM
@Promethus, very cool, thanks!! Here are the renderings from my latest model.128809128810128811

jeric_synergy
07-03-2015, 04:18 PM
Y'know, THIS THREAD exemplifies the advantages of the forum over the various social media outlets ( Matt!!!) -- there's no other good way IMO to carry on a detailed discussion of features WITH ILLUSTRATION as we have demonstrated here.

This thread has been very valuable to me as it sparked me to examine some tools I've neglected, and reminded me of the power of creative point selection.

Thanks to everyone, and keep it comin'.

prometheus
07-03-2015, 04:46 PM
Y'know, THIS THREAD exemplifies the advantages of the forum over the various social media outlets ( Matt!!!) -- there's no other good way IMO to carry on a detailed discussion of features WITH ILLUSTRATION as we have demonstrated here.

This thread has been very valuable to me as it sparked me to examine some tools I've neglected, and reminded me of the power of creative point selection.

Thanks to everyone, and keep it comin'.

Social media in my opinion ...overrated hype, cluttered and to much distracting information that bounds people and to notifications that might be of no concern to them and distract from what they might really have interest in, forums..and sections provides focus on topics in a much better way.
Retrograde...Retrograde:D

By the way, Jeric..not sure if you might have interest in the tips and tricks section about creating structures from polylines, itīs not ideal..but could be useful for weird structures, corals etc you can array or clone polyline structures and then perform meshing with metaedges, though one can not array or clone to much of them, the metaball meshing would be too slow.

check the tips and tricks section if you want or donīt, I wonīt through it in your face with a book.

prometheus
07-03-2015, 04:48 PM
@Promethus, very cool, thanks!! Here are the renderings from my latest model.128809128810128811

Very nice, which modeling technique approach did you use?

tonyrizo2003
07-04-2015, 02:03 PM
for the mesh grill, I used the technique that you showed, (many thanks) and everything else was SubD, well except for the base that was hard modeled.

tonyrizo2003
07-04-2015, 02:39 PM
here are some wires of the microphone128819

prometheus
07-04-2015, 08:11 PM
for the mesh grill, I used the technique that you showed, (many thanks) and everything else was SubD, well except for the base that was hard modeled.

How about that :)


here are some wires of the microphone128819

Looking great.

By the way of topic...
where is that Modo UI config for lightwave?, Ive seen it around sometimes but canīt recall if it was free available somewhere? have to try it out if possible.

tonyrizo2003
07-05-2015, 11:17 AM
Thank you, I didn't know there was a modo config that would be very interesting to try out.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks jeric and everyone else for your help in solving my dilema. :)

jeric_synergy
07-05-2015, 01:47 PM
16. select all but the bottom row of points and using Rounder with the numeric panel set to "edges" 1 rounding polygon and 1mm inset distance.
Here, ROUNDER will not let me set "Rounding Polygons" to anything less than 2. :(

Was that just a typo??? :cry:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Aaaaaaaaaand when I get to Rounder things go all pear-shaped: voila le JPG of before and after: is this what's supposed to happen???

128835

prometheus
07-05-2015, 04:00 PM
Here, ROUNDER will not let me set "Rounding Polygons" to anything less than 2. :(

Was that just a typo??? :cry:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Aaaaaaaaaand when I get to Rounder things go all pear-shaped: voila le JPG of before and after: is this what's supposed to happen???

128835


when using rounder with mesh density set to high, I can not get rounding polygons set to 1, however..if using low mesh density you can, though it seems you have tried both?
But...I canīt tell from your UI which button is active or not..ehh..guess it is the pink ones that are displaying active buttons or boxes?...very colorful...but confusing:D

jeric_synergy
07-05-2015, 06:49 PM
Actually, in my color scheme, BLUE means "active". --Thanks, LOW DENSITY got me there, now to see if I can make the rest of the directions work....

(I just realized the tab boxes are drawn with a line between the active tab and the panel: that's not correct UI design. Eliminating the line would make the tab's connection to its panel obvious. :grumpy: )

Wie so:
128849

prometheus
07-05-2015, 07:46 PM
hereīs an illustration showcasing some different bevels, edge bevel, chamfer, all on a tesselated sphere.
To especially take note of, I donīt think it is recommended to use chamfer on points, Havenīt checked that in the manual, I am getting to many crashes with it..and it seems to give not different result from rounder on points.

Also..using the edge bevel works with all point selected, or two points selected, but it doesnīt work with one point only selected.
Rounder with points selected but in edge mode.... gives a complety different bevel pattern (see illustration samples) also note that rounder on the tesselated sphere will create four point polygons properly divided (as previously showcased in my youtube clip) as opposed to using a globe sphere, but that is only valid if you have space between some selected points, selecting all points will not retain such four point poly geometry.....


http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128850&d=1436146918
128850




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GBvl8CIDIA

jeric_synergy
07-05-2015, 08:02 PM
Chamfer on EDGE, POLY, POINTS modes. A lot to hold in one's mind:

128851

JoePoe
07-05-2015, 08:25 PM
Chamfer on EDGE, POLY, POINTS modes. A lot to hold in one's mind:

128851

Edge and poly examples are the same.... just a matter of distance.
Same with Prometheus' example... 2=3. (and as he states 1=4)

So really, only two options with one rounding/chamfer segment.

Oh yeah also.... Prometheus, yes...Chamfer on points is flakey in open gl manipulation, but pretty darn solid using the numeric arrow slider interface.

jeric_synergy
07-05-2015, 08:36 PM
Dang it, I shoulda been more rigorous. Still ::tapdancing:: shows how distance can affect 'look'. Yeah, that's the ticket. :hey:

tonyrizo2003
07-06-2015, 11:21 AM
Wow!! Very cool guys!! Thank you!!