View Full Version : replace object with all layers of another object?

02-19-2010, 06:51 PM
I've got an animated scene created using Jimmy RIG.

It animated one layer of my character (the body), but there are many layers such as the hair, eyes, dress, etc.

How can I replace the object in the Jimmy RIG created scene, with all the layers for the character?

I tried item -> replace, but it just used the first layer instead of ALL the layers.

Or - is the way to go to pull in the animation and cameras - and apply that to my existing scene that is based on a multi-layer object?

I'm unsure on how to do that either.

Mr Rid
02-19-2010, 08:08 PM
I dont know Jimmy Rig but I assume it exports a bone rig. If there are no weights on the body that govern bone influence then you can go into the Bone Properties for each of your layers and where it says 'Use Bones From Object', specify the body layer. Then all layers will use the bones in the body.

If there are bone weights on the body, then the other layers may not deform right and I guess you have to collapse all layers into one layer and reapply Jimmy Rig.

02-19-2010, 09:29 PM
Mr Rid - how do I get all the layers into my Jimmy created scene (that already has the body)?

And - is there a way to just import the rig, etc. from the Jimmy RIG scene into my regular scene (with all the layers)? I will probably be re-working this several times, so it would be great not to have to completely setup my scene again.

Megalodon - I believe Jimmy RIG wants to work with minimal geometry. Sometimes a reduced poly version, although that was not necessary in this case.

If I put all the objects into one layer, that will make it harder to keep refining the model (is this a correct assumption?), so I'd like to avoid that.

Currently, I just tried using a replace on the body object in the Jimmy created scene (as my workflow), but this only brought in the 1st layer (the hair), which - although it looks interesting dancing - is less than I'd hoped for.

BTW - go ahead and buy the non-Pro Jimmy now. There are thousands of motion captures you can immediately play with - and you can still influence the developers as to the features you'd like.

Here's a cool example of someone's work with Jimmy, using the ballet motions I am trying to use.


02-19-2010, 09:55 PM
What kind of refining are you talking about? Moving the head to face another direction or...?

Could you just bring in the body to JimmyRig and then add the head/eyes/etc., after you re-import into LW?

I'm still surfacing, playing with some geometry, will try to add morphs. I'm very new to this, so it might actually be easier when they are all combined, so I'll try that.

I'll give adding the eyes/hair/etc. later a whirl also, and I guess I'll have to worry about the weight maps, etc. Mr. Rid mentioned (which might be another reason to coalesce the layers down before sending them to Jimmy as you suggested?)


Mr Rid
02-19-2010, 10:04 PM
Mr Rid - how do I get all the layers into my Jimmy created scene (that already has the body)?

If I put all the objects into one layer, that will make it harder to keep refining the model (is this a correct assumption?), so I'd like to avoid that.

Thats what I meant. Select all layers in Modeler, 'Flatten Layers' and save one object. You may 'Create Parts' or point 'Selection Sets' prior to flattening so you can still easily separate pieces of the model for refining.

I avoid layered objects until they are absolutely necessary as they may add complication. Often I have seen layers get mixed up after replace, parenting hierarchies get jumbled, bone weight associations get lost, plugins get confused, baking gets complicated, and other weirdness may crop up unnoticed until after a scene progresses.

02-20-2010, 08:02 AM
Mr. Rid - thanks for pointing me in a different direction!

Megalodon - great suggestions!

on the subject of morphs... I purchased the model (converted from 3ds which has been a lot more trouble than I thought to get working right in LW), and I've got different layers of several versions of the 'head' (smiling, frowning, etc.).

None of the heads are positioned within meters of the real head, and I'm not even sure they are the same size (I've been putting off dealing with them).

What's a workflow to create morphs for my main body's head - for each of these different heads located at separate x,y co-ordinates?

02-20-2010, 10:05 AM
I tried merging the layers. I had to exclude the fairy's wings, as Jimmy did not deal with wings very well.

I've got a few issues.

1. One eye gets messed up and rolls around. Oddly enough, it displays ok in fprime, but not for LW render.

So - my course of action would be to exclude the eyes from Jimmy, then import them and reposition them by hand. To get them to move along with the character, do I parent in place to the character - or set 'Use Bones From Object' - or some other method?

2. I suppose whatever works on the eyes will work on the wings. But, I hope to create morphs (would this be the best way) for the wings so that they can flap a bit during my fairy's dancing.

3. I noticed that the fairy's dress is getting a bit trashed in places. Would be nice to make it almost as light as air and bounce around a bit. Any suggestions?

Mr Rid
02-20-2010, 08:30 PM
About the various morph heads- as Meg mentioned, they all need to have been modeled with the same point counts in order to apply morphs to your base head.

Assuming they have, you just have your base head in a foreground layer in Modeler, and one of the other heads (frowning, etc) in the background layer, position and scale it to line up with you base head as needed.

To make a morph, click "M" in lower right corner, select 'new', name it (frowning, etc), click 'create', under Map tab click 'Bkg to Morph' (select frowning, etc), click OK. Do this for each expression head you want to add as a morph.

Thomas4D had an 'import morphs' script included with T4D rigging tools http://www.thomas4d.com/html/t4d_rigging_tools.html that allowed you to have each morph target mesh in separate background layers and would apply them as morphs all at once, which I luv. He offered it for free for awhile but I think you have to buy it as part of the rigging tools now.

And then the dress sounds like a clothfx job, you'll have to check some tuts-

02-21-2010, 07:06 PM
Mr. Rid & Megalodon - I've made decent progress, and Jimmy is animating a single object collapsed from all layers quite well for a ballet dance.

However, I've got 2 problems that are related.

1. One of the eyes (in the collapsed into single layer version of the object) just rolls around in the head as the character dances (I'm not sure why and was trying to avoid the 'nightmare before xmas' effect this time out!)

Both eyes use a UV Map to map a realistic eye image.

I've tried creating a collapsed object without the eyes, but I can't figure how to get the eyes to stay in the sockets. Putting them into the hierarchy of the model just keeps the eye near the head. I also tried adding a bone to the eye, and telling it to 'use bones from object' for the main model layer.

2. I'm very anxious to try to clothfx on the dress. It was deforming badly at times, so I also broke out the 6 pieces (kind of like rose petals) that make up the dress.

Besides setting up the dynamics, I've got to figure how to anchor the dress onto her waist (very much like needing to anchor the eyes in the sockets), but I don't see how to do something which must be very simple?


02-21-2010, 07:53 PM
Okay... you've got the eyes parented to the eye bones? What do you have the eye bones parented to? Have you tried parenting the eye bones to the head bone?
Yes - that worked!

So, same goes for the dress. As the body moves according to the bones, I just have to parent and then position properly.


Mr Rid
02-22-2010, 02:39 AM
... I've got to figure how to anchor the dress onto her waist (very much like needing to anchor the eyes in the sockets), but I don't see how to do something which must be very simple?

I think you just need to set the hip area of the dress to 'fixed'. Check the 2nd link I posted.