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View Full Version : Is it just me or is vRay s.l.o.o.o.o..o...o....w....



donlimpio
02-18-2010, 08:22 AM
Damn! We're a tight little shop running Lightware (for years now) as our only rendering engine, but since we've been growing lately we're looking to expand our rendering arsenal - I won't go into mumblings about the future of LW and core, but our reasons to find other render engines has a lot to do with this.

So, without further ado: is it just me or is vRay slow and hard to optimize? I mean, the images look good to great, but I'm waiting a long time for a 320x240 pixel image of a simpel "skylight-enters sparse room" setup. I'm getting the impression that LW would do this a LOT faster (in the 10x faster range). From what I've seen, vRay would probably pick up when good contact shadows without splotchiness are involved, but still, I can't see myself doing full HD radiosity renders with it, in the timeframe that I do with LW (we often find ourselves 2 hours before deadline, cranking out 5 images on a single computer, full res, with radiosity, reflection and refraction).

Googling for performance tweaks doesn't yield any significant improvements either. Sure, there's 4 or 5 different radiosity engines in primary and secondary phases and all that, but I can't wait that long in our production environment.

I don't know what I'm hoping for most here: to hear that I'm wrong and that vRay is actually just as fast if you tweak it (so I can feel safe about LW hypothetically dwindling into obscurity), or to hear that yes, my old and trustworthy LW is still the king - especially with it's companion fPrime inthere, depending on the type of shot.

Ciao homies!
Thomas

p.s. I wish I could see some worthwhile things about core - without buying in, just as a longlife LW user.

Iain
02-18-2010, 10:02 AM
VRay, like most renderers, can be optimised to be very fast.

Search the Chaos group or CGArchitect forums for tips.

GraphXs
02-18-2010, 12:41 PM
V-Ray GI can be very good. R you using Max w/V-Ray. We use V-Ray in our pipeline and it does a good job. It's not always perfect and working in "Max" sometimes gives me a headache because of the different materials or mixing of standard vs V_Mat materials.

IMO LW is still the king for fast great looking images/materials and just the easy use of where things are in the Render GUI.

On V-Ray

Take a look at Chaos group and also all the wonderful V-Ray materiels on line. Those help get us quicker on the material side.

For GI use Irradiance map on Med Animations for fast GI. (I like how fast it is to get clean GI compared to LW with these settings, no setting up MIPs, etc,etc)


For lighting I like using poly cards with V-Ray light material apply. (It allows for over 100% illumination rather then using Max standard material.)

If yr using Max standard materials and using spec, yr going to need to use a omni light for the spec to show. If yr using a V-Ray light, its just as slow as the LW Area light.

On Lightwave

I say switch back to it depending on the job! Or see if ya can do some comparing of speed for the job.

Matt
02-18-2010, 12:49 PM
Never used VRay, but from what I can gather it's very much like KRay. The power comes from the fact that you can tweak the nuts off it, but you need to know what you're doing, otherwise, LightWave, with it's much simpler controls can get you there quicker, although, maybe slower.

Having said that, LightWave's GI is impressive, it's very easy to get amazing results, which has always been LightWave's mantra.

Paul_Boland
02-18-2010, 12:52 PM
I didn't know you could get VRay for Lightwave!!

Matt
02-18-2010, 12:53 PM
I didn't know you could get VRay for Lightwave!!

You can't, closed thing to it is KRay.

Intuition
02-18-2010, 02:58 PM
Vray is blisteringly fast. yet you have to know the little gotchas to get it to be fast. I do wish they would ship it so the defaults were more setup for speed.

Heck, the defaults point towards adaptive sampling instead of dmc. I'll see if I can find you a link to some solid render settings. If you are registered at Chaosgroup forums I could link you to a tips thread that shows some real time savers. The kind of stuff you eventually find out through testing and use always. I have 5 different render setting presets I use in maya vray and max vray that I just load in from the start.

===edit=====

Start here.

http://www.chaosgroup.com/forums/vbulletin/showthread.php?48269-So-Vray-is-SOOOO-FASSSSSTTT-%28and-not-too-grainy-btw%29-if/page2

Heh, they pretty much are picking every single setting I use as defaults now. It took me about a month of trying different things to get them all incorporated. Then about another 3 months to know exactly what each setting was for. ;D Now I am almost 3 years into regular Vray use. Its my rendering equivelant of crack cocaine.

Intuition
02-18-2010, 03:07 PM
You can't, closed thing to it is KRay.

I will say that if you like Lightwave better then max or maya that Kray is a good Vray substitute. Its only drawbacks are micropoly displacement limits being based on visible geometry in openGL.

Still a top notch engine. A Slight learning curve that, like Vray, is super slow in the wrong hands but super fast in the right hands.

geo_n
02-18-2010, 05:28 PM
vray is super fast renderer for gi rendering. top quality as well.
try tweaking the irradiance setting and noise threshold setting. those two setting affect rendertime the most.

toby
02-18-2010, 05:47 PM
I did really fast renders with reflection blurring on everything, multi-bounce gi and full 3d motion blur, years ago on single core machines. Yea it smokes. Find some video tutorials on it.

donlimpio
02-19-2010, 04:05 AM
Alright,

Thanks for the info and testimonials. I'll dig little deeper then, before passing my final judgement!

Thanks,
Thomas

StudioBOZON
02-19-2010, 06:50 AM
You should defenetly take a look at Kray - I forgot how LW native renderer works when i got my hands on Kray. Everything is in the details and setup of the engine. It is fast as hell !!! i do 300 DPI A4 (that's 3500 x 2500 pixels) format images of houses with physical trees and grass, environment, blured reflections and refractions, and so on in 5 - 6 hours.

You could check Kray on www.kraytracing.com or it's forum.

biliousfrog
02-19-2010, 07:01 AM
I don't know anything about V-Ray but I'd guess that the speed comes from experience and if you're used to Lightwave any renderer is going to be an uphill struggle.

Captain Obvious
02-19-2010, 07:38 AM
I will say that if you like Lightwave better then max or maya that Kray is a good Vray substitute. Its only drawbacks are micropoly displacement limits being based on visible geometry in openGL.
Lightwave's adaptive subdivision works in Kray.




You should defenetly take a look at Kray - I forgot how LW native renderer works when i got my hands on Kray. Everything is in the details and setup of the engine. It is fast as hell !!! i do 300 DPI A4 (that's 3500 x 2500 pixels) format images of houses with physical trees and grass, environment, blured reflections and refractions, and so on in 5 - 6 hours.
I did a 5k interior render with high-quality GI and soft reflections on every single surface seen by the camera in... drumroll please... 30 minutes, on a single eight-core!

donlimpio
02-19-2010, 09:26 AM
For the record: we would be partially converting to Vray because there is a native Vray plugin for sKetchup - no exporting or pipeline needed. This means that Kray is not a viable alternative.

Captain Obvious
02-19-2010, 12:05 PM
There's a Kray plugin for SketchUp as well, though.


Edit: Oh, it's still in beta...
http://www.suplugins.com/index.php?p=page&page_id=v2beta

biliousfrog
02-20-2010, 03:31 AM
The Kray shop page has been offline for a little while, does anyone know when it's going to be back? I'm tempted to jump onboard for some upcoming interior projects.

JonW
02-20-2010, 04:28 AM
I bought Kray a month ago, I only had a chance to do one simple interior test just to get some idea what it’s like. Looks promising. Hopefully I get some time soon to actually use it.

Paul_Boland
02-20-2010, 12:43 PM
Shop is still offline so can't even check the price. Anyone know how much it costs?

npix
02-20-2010, 01:28 PM
I paid 319 Euros + [email protected] 22% so 389.18 Euros 360 including the Vat back in Nov 2009

biliousfrog
02-22-2010, 04:36 AM
I paid 319 Euros + [email protected] 22% so 389.18 Euros 360 including the Vat back in Nov 2009

http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert.cgi?Amount=389.18&From=EUR&To=GBP&x=63&y=13

342.29 in todays money then.