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shrox
02-04-2010, 09:12 PM
British Toast New Shatterproof Pint Glass

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=123379130

"Officials hope the glasses will reduce health care costs related to pub fights in which glasses are used as weapons."

h2oStudios
02-04-2010, 09:22 PM
Nice. But now instead of stabbing someone at the bar with a broken glass, you have to beat him to a pulp with it. At least it'll prevent things like this -

"One time there was a big fight and 50 pints were smashed in one minute," she said. "One man smashed a glass over another one's head. One person's eye was popping out. It was a bloodbath. There was glass raining. People were hiding behind the counter."

LOL, that's crazy sh8t. But I gotta say if the pub serves food then they'll have to make shatter proof plates, and replace forks & knives with "sporks". :D

Chris S. (Fez)
02-04-2010, 10:06 PM
A sad day for football thuggery.

doimus
02-05-2010, 01:13 AM
This is decadence!
What next are they going to come up with!? Non-alcoholic beer?!?

meshpig
02-05-2010, 01:24 AM
Ipso facto here is better, the US and Europe are AFU:)

Matt
02-05-2010, 01:36 AM
England is a joke these days. It's lost its way.

geothefaust
02-05-2010, 01:44 AM
Matt, why is that?


Every time I read or talk to one of my English friends (who have all moved here to Oregon, BTW), they say the same thing. Always speaking on how it's full of thugs and drunkards. It saddens me soul when I hear it.


I watch the video of the guy behind the R&D of the glass, and I was thinking to myself... "Seriously?" the whole time.

meshpig
02-05-2010, 01:56 AM
... though the cops here reckon it's all down to youth culture. It always amuses me how flagrantly the business of war is done and yet how cheaply domestic problems are sold.

kopperdrake
02-05-2010, 02:21 AM
It's a complex issue, and those fleeing our shores will likely find it as bad in other countries, just in different ways. Our media loves hyping the 'worst' in UK society, and does a very good job of it. Personally I blame the greed culture. We have those who rely on social services to live, and are probably now third and fourth generation where they know nothing else. Then we have those with money, and we also have the legacy culture Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reegan brought about where people see money and the resulting popularity as the holy grail to a wonderful life. Those at the bottom of the heap are fed bollocks on TV to aspire to - look at the popularity of Simon Callow's various freak shows and the delusion many have - and aspire to fame and money and a quick fix to get them out of their 'drudgery'. Those at the top are scared at those at the bottom as the press paint them all as evil money-grubbing filth. The reality, as ever, is never as black and white, but the issues are there, in much the same way that I assume they are in every culture.

For my part, I do believe we are too soft on degenerates in our society, but we never address the root causes. Sure, give people social security, but they must contribute to society in order to get it. But that contribution must be a worthwhile activity where you are rebuilding that person's self-esteem, their *need* to do well, otherwise it's just going through the motions and will do no long-term good.

By the same token, we need to rid ourselves of the greed culture - those at the top who have managed to make a shedload of money over the last 25 years are being paid obscene amounts in many's eyes, and everyone is seeing it as the norm to aspire to. How many kids leave university these days expecting a fantastic wage? Expecting that the world owes them a decent wage and automatic respect having worked for three years to get a degreee. Our culture is a 'I want it all, and I want it now' culture. For some it is, for most is isn't, and that makes them frustrated.

People wonder why the older, war-time generation, seem to be happier 'with their lot' and aspire to a lot less monetarily than today's younger generation. The answer is that they know what it's like to have nothing, but more importantly they know what it's like to have nothing at the same time as the next door neighbour had nothing - the disparity wasn't there - papers have been written showing that disparity in income leads to less stability in a culture. They also know how lucky they were to have nothing, but to still have their life - kinds of puts things into perspective eh?

So we need a stricter penance system in place in our country I believe, but a strict reformative system as opposed to a strict punishment system (though not in a fluffy left-wing way). But, we also need to get ourselves off of this money-train that is rapidly derailing. Some see the various green movements as partly to do with turning their backs on a system they see as having brought good, but also a lot of bad. I just hate seeing greed, and in business I see a lot of it. But then I also see businessmen and women of an altruistic nature, where relationships are as important, if not more so, than the bottom line, in business.

Sorry for the wordage :) I also have despaired about the state of this country at times, but then I am also pleased by many aspects. It's funny seeing the US scrap about the healthcare proposals, branding the UK as being 'commie' for such a system. This is not the place for such an argument, but I couldn't live in a country where some fall through the gaps to then receive no healthcare. Health is the most important thing to any person - and you never know when your genes will turn against you. You pay taxes I assume that fund school education, even though you might never have kids yourself? Do you complain about that? That, logically, is something to get more upset about as you can guarantee that some day you will need healthcare. I have needed our NHS system since 1994 whilst at uni, and every day I am alive I am thankful we have a system that allows me to remain fit and active, in order to love my family, make a living, and see my family grow up. In turn, my taxes go back into the system and I begrudge no one who does not earn enough to pay as much into the system but needs healthcare.

Like I said, we need less greed culture, more support for those deserving, and a firm hand for those who stray from either end - something we have for neither at the moment.

Duncan

OnlineRender
02-05-2010, 02:43 AM
being from Glasgow and being smashed over the head with a Glass hence the large scar on myskull , I'm all 4 .......

meshpig
02-05-2010, 03:20 AM
Matt, why is that?



Historically speaking, the "right to bear arms" in the UK went out sometime after Dueling and pistols at dawn.

Stereotypically, every Nation also has an iconic form of violence associated with it. The UK is also 1/4 of the population of the US kind of thing all stuffed onto one rainy little island hundreds of times smaller.

Bovver!

biliousfrog
02-05-2010, 04:12 AM
They've been available for years...they're called plastic pint glasses, available at all good beer tents

colkai
02-05-2010, 04:44 AM
Ahh, not plastic, double walled, now they should be promoting the side benefit.
The double wall apparently will help keep ya beer colder for longer, now THERE is a reason to use them :D

probiner
02-05-2010, 04:56 AM
Are these a surreal news or what?
The government, not some company or some association by it's own, comes out with a shatterproof glass that will save them billions in health care... because they have so many violent alchool abusing people there, that they just throw at them some fancy shatterproof glasses so those guys just don't kill themselves... so often... (or at max, get frustrated by a clubing glass and grab a chair...)

When a government proudly anounces something like this, it looks like it lost his hopes long time ago, to educate the population.

Cheers

colkai
02-05-2010, 05:24 AM
Don't even go there. :(
Don't fix the broken handle which cut you, just wrap your hand in a towel when you use it, just about sums this place up now. Urrgghh...

biliousfrog
02-05-2010, 07:15 AM
What they haven't thought of is how dangerous a shatterproof projectile is compared to one that disintegrates on impact...they'd be better using sugar-glass, safer all round ;)

shrox
02-05-2010, 07:25 AM
In Redruth, Cornwall there is a club called the Rose Cottage (we called it the Rottage) and every weekend there was an ambulance waiting for someone to get hurt or drink way too much. The ambulance was used at least twice a night, if not more!

Kuzey
02-05-2010, 07:29 AM
In Redruth, Cornwall there is a club called the Rose Cottage (we called it the Rottage) and every weekend there was an ambulance waiting for someone to get hurt or drink way too much. The ambulance was used at least twice a night, if not more!

I'm not sure if that's sad or funny or a little bit of both...a pub with it's own ambulance, what will they think of next.

Kuzey

littlewaves
02-05-2010, 07:45 AM
I'm not sure if that's sad or funny or a little bit of both...a pub with it's own ambulance, what will they think of next.

Kuzey

If they'd just put bars in hospitals in the first place we cold save a lot of money on ambulances.

Tranimatronic
02-05-2010, 07:58 AM
It's a complex issue, and those fleeing our shores will likely find it as bad in other countries, just in different ways.
Duncan

don't kid yourself. I moved from the UK to Canada in 2006 and have never looked back. I'll not bore you with details, but if you can - try living in another country. You will end up wondering why you stayed in the UK so long.

OnlineRender
02-05-2010, 07:59 AM
If they'd just put bars in hospitals in the first place we cold save a lot of money on ambulances.

They already do , my mums a radiographer"can't spell" , and they have a bar with a pool table in the hospital for staff/doctors kinda cool (",) ....

shrox
02-05-2010, 08:30 AM
Did I mention The Rottage was our place of choice on weekends? I was known as the Cold Blooded American because I asked for ice in my Jack and Coke...

Lightwolf
02-05-2010, 08:42 AM
I was known as the Cold Blooded American because I asked for ice in my Jack and Coke...
Are you sure it was the ice? The combination is cruel either way... ;)

Cheers,
Mike

T-Light
02-05-2010, 09:04 AM
Interestingly announced by Home Secretary (or Home 'Secetary') Allen Johnson, He of the rosy nose fame.

I can't believe we spend 2.7 BILLION a year on this?

At 1000 per stitching, that's 2.7 million people in casualty every year.
At 10,000 per stitching, that's 270,000 people in casuality.
At 100,000, that's still 27,000 people getting glassed a year.

If incidents like this were anywhere near those figures, or indeed anywhere near that expensive, I think we'd have heard about it. It would mean that drunken lout violence was almost as expensive as our extremely costly underwater nuclear submarine deterrent...

Unless as per usual, the government figures on this are hopelessly inaccurate.

biliousfrog
02-05-2010, 09:23 AM
Interestingly announced by Home Secretary (or Home 'Secetary') Allen Johnson, He of the rosy nose fame.

I can't believe we spend 2.7 BILLION a year on this?

At 1000 per stitching, that's 2.7 million people in casualty every year.
At 10,000 per stitching, that's 270,000 people in casuality.
At 100,000, that's still 27,000 people getting glassed a year.

If incidents like this were anywhere near those figures, or indeed anywhere near that expensive, I think we'd have heard about it. It would mean that drunken lout violence was almost as expensive as our extremely costly underwater nuclear submarine deterrent...

Unless as per usual, the government figures on this are hopelessly inaccurate.

Are the figures purely based on costs for 'stitches'?...more likely those costs also include more intensive surgery, police, councelling etc.

I can give you an example - my girlfriends cousin was attacked recently outside a pub by someone with a stanley knife. Bearing in mind that her cousin was fighting in Afghanistan last year, he's got wires holding his jaw and skull together and he almost lost complete use of his right hand because of the cut through his palm...and that was from a 'clean' cut, not a jagged piece of glass.

...now that sounds horrific but it's just one example from our tiny little seaside town, I regularly hear of similar (and worse) stories from other towns and cities nearby...almost every other week.

Those incidents require much more than 'stitches', they often require very specialist surgery, a lot of police time (both preventative and post-incident), paramedics and quick-response, insurance claims, physio-therapy, court costs...those figures don't seem so crazy to me.

T-Light
02-05-2010, 09:56 AM
They stated it was the cost to the NHS, they didn't include anything else.

Even then, our doctors, ambulance drivers etc, are on a set wage. They don't get any extra (as far as I'm aware) for handling A&E.

When our gov starts bandying about figures like this, it's usually because they have something else planned. Stopping pubs opening after 11pm for example.

On the plus side, they only have three months left in power, there's not a lot they can do unless they state it's a national emergency (and I wouldn't put it past them).

Matt
02-05-2010, 12:34 PM
Matt, why is that?

A number of things ...

Government - They just can't leave well enough alone, and seem totally incapable of making tough decisions or sensible ones. I have lost so much faith in the powers at be.

Terrible immigration policy - We just can't handle the numbers coming in, and our services are stretched (please don't read this as racist, it's just a simple fact of people coming in > what we can handle).

Sensationalist media - Our media seems to have lost the plot. Giving far too much attention to idiots and celebrity rather than the more pressing matters at hand.

Political correctness - It's everywhere, it's ridiculous and it's ruining everything. The 'do-gooders' are making this place intollerable.

No longer the leader in anything - Thanks to our Government failing to protect our industries / skills markets, we're losing what we used to be leaders at. Manufacturing is dying due to cheap competition abroad, companies being sold off left right and centre, it seems Britain is for sale, and I fear for what this Country will have as its core skillset in 5 - 10 years time, what will we be well known for?

Respect - It seems to have gone, everyone is too obsessed with their own lot. It saddens me when I hear stories of people who aren't from here saying that they thought the English were a polite and respectful bunch, only to then tell stories of behaviour that embarrassess me as an Englishmen. I want our Country to regain that reputation.

When I visited the States a number of years ago, I was pleasantly surprised how nice everyone was. Returning to the UK reminded me how bad our behaviour has become.

The weather - It sucks, but that's always been the case!

I sound like a miserable old git I know, and the grass is always greener, but this place just seems to have lost the Great in Great Britain.

Captain Obvious
02-05-2010, 01:52 PM
Terrible immigration policy - We just can't handle the numbers coming in, and our services are stretched (please don't read this as racist, it's just a simple fact of people coming in > what we can handle).
I'm sorry :( I'll be on the next plane home. :(


Honestly, it's not so bad. At least not the VERY small part of England where I hang out. (Uh, that would be... EC2. Sometimes EC1.) East London is still a very nice place. Grimey, violent, stressful and dirty, sure, but still really nice.

Matt
02-05-2010, 04:47 PM
I'm sorry :( I'll be on the next plane home. :(

Yes, get out! :D

richdj
02-06-2010, 05:49 AM
A number of things ...

Government - They just can't leave well enough alone, and seem totally incapable of making tough decisions or sensible ones. I have lost so much faith in the powers at be.

Agree..


Terrible immigration policy - We just can't handle the numbers coming in, and our services are stretched (please don't read this as racist, it's just a simple fact of people coming in > what we can handle).

I'm all for helping people out, but can't see why we should bend over backwards to keep those that wont comply with the rules. For those that they do decide to deport, a number of them are given a piece of paper with an address on it, and they are told to make their own way to the deportation center.


Sensationalist media - Our media seems to have lost the plot. Giving far too much attention to idiots and celebrity rather than the more pressing matters at hand.

Definately.. The old adage of 'You can't sing, can't dance. You'll go along way' is right on. Also, when you do get an alcohol fuelled incident, if the police are video'd dealing with it, they then get the 'shoulda squad' telling them what was done wrong. Despite having to deal with morons.


Political correctness - It's everywhere, it's ridiculous and it's ruining everything. The 'do-gooders' are making this place intollerable.

Are we allowed to say do-gooders? Or has that been banned now.. Sorry, agree completely.


No longer the leader in anything - Thanks to our Government failing to protect our industries / skills markets, we're losing what we used to be leaders at. Manufacturing is dying due to cheap competition abroad, companies being sold off left right and centre, it seems Britain is for sale, and I fear for what this Country will have as its core skillset in 5 - 10 years time, what will we be well known for?

Sooo true..


Respect - It seems to have gone, everyone is too obsessed with their own lot. It saddens me when I hear stories of people who aren't from here saying that they thought the English were a polite and respectful bunch, only to then tell stories of behaviour that embarrassess me as an Englishmen. I want our Country to regain that reputation.

LOL, I work in an evironment dealing with alot of the less law abiding. The younger ones regularly say, they won't respect anyone, unless they get the respect first. When I say I'll do the same (for arguments sake), so I'll not respect them until they respect me. They don't get it and say they deserve the respect, because they are them?


When I visited the States a number of years ago, I was pleasantly surprised how nice everyone was. Returning to the UK reminded me how bad our behaviour has become.

Same here. Went to Vegas a couple of times, and never had anything other than a polite conversation. Even when they have just dealt with someone being anything but nice. A couple of years ago, I went to visit a friend in Barcelona. I had more trouble changing trains on the way to the airport, than I did getting information from a guy on the Barcelona trains. Despite the fact I don't speak spanish/catalan, and he didn't speak english.


The weather - It sucks, but that's always been the case!

We can't handle the cold / snow or rain. And we can't handle the heat. Yes we do get heat in the UK, Just hope those two days happen when I'm off work..


I sound like a miserable old git I know, and the grass is always greener, but this place just seems to have lost the Great in Great Britain.

Sound just like me.. So yes, a miserable old git would be appropriate... :D

Rich

Cageman
02-06-2010, 06:03 AM
This is decadence!
What next are they going to come up with!? Non-alcoholic beer?!?

Funny you would mention it. We have that here in Sweden, but I'm not sure you can order it on a pub. Even more funny is the fact that it is only Systembolaget who are allowed to sell it, which makes it very retarded. If pretty much everything related to alcohol is sold at Systembolaget, alcohol-free beer SHOULD be allowed to sell everywhere.

I've heard it tastes as good as any alcoholic beer, but without any of the negative sideeffects (getting drunk, hangover etc).

Lightwolf
02-06-2010, 06:22 AM
I've heard it tastes as good as any alcoholic beer, but without any of the negative sideeffects (getting drunk, hangover etc).
Some of it tastes better by now ;) You get it everywhere here as an alternative to beer (including restaurants, bars, pubs). Which makes even more sense if you look at how many people go out driving ;)

Some of the alcohol free beer is also advertised with sports in mind, as beer isn't the worst isotonic drink in the world - especially once there's no alcohol in it.

Cheers,
Mike

Lightwolf
02-06-2010, 06:34 AM
A little less doom and gloom wouldn't hurt...

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15452811

Cheers,
Mike

Matt
02-06-2010, 07:07 AM
A little less doom and gloom wouldn't hurt...

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15452811

Cheers,
Mike

I don't believe it! As an Englishmen, I define myself by suffering! :D

How's the 'mood' over in Germany anyway? Any better? Can I come and live there?

:)

Lightwolf
02-06-2010, 11:37 AM
How's the 'mood' over in Germany anyway? Any better? Can I come and live there?
You can certainly come over, thanks to the EU, and live here. No NHS though ;)

Hm, I'd say the general mood is not quite as gloomy - maybe because our press is also a little less sensational.
However, the topics are the same: Kids drinking too much too early (something that only crept up in the past five years). On the other hand it's more like a rise in extreme cases, not a general rise at that age group.
Youth violence... but then again, also just more extreme cases while it generally has been going down.
Education is also a big topic, damaged a lot by the federal system we have here. I still think that us probably the most crucial topic on an open and very competitive world though - especially coupled with the change in family life in post-industrial nations.

And, as always, it's the politicians fault. Especially if you actually voted for them (d'oh) ;)

Cheers,
Mike

meshpig
02-07-2010, 02:30 AM
ood as any alcoholic beer, but without any of the negative sideeffects (getting drunk, hangover etc).

Fallacy. The flavour of beer is dependent on fermentation which necessarily produces alcohol. That bland camel's piss the yanks drink for example is case in point.

JBT27
02-07-2010, 03:24 AM
In Redruth, Cornwall there is a club called the Rose Cottage (we called it the Rottage) and every weekend there was an ambulance waiting for someone to get hurt or drink way too much. The ambulance was used at least twice a night, if not more!

Unfortunately, that did a bring a smile to my face ..... because I've seen this kind of thing more than once, over many, many years - local pubs that are known for their fights and thuggish clientele.

I mean, it's not really funny, but to me that just is a bit of Britain.

Julian.

crashnburn
02-07-2010, 03:35 AM
You can get alcohol free lager here in the UK, but it doesn't taste very nice. I've tried it a few times and decided to stick to soft drinks when driving.

A lot of the problems are caused by the fact that many pubs are trying to get people to drink as much as possible. Not in a direct manner, but the way in which they advertise and offer drinks is a major driving factor. Happy hours and cheap drinks are clearly not good for us at the moment with so many people determined to drink far too much. Oh, and a genius somewhere in government that came up with the bright idea of extending drinking hours.......great idea sparky! They actually believed that by extending drinking hours people would not binge drink as much, but would drink more slowly. Yeah right. That ones back fired and as usual they wont admit they got it wrong.

A lot of pubs are actually closing here in the Uk, which is surprising considering the amount of binge drinking that the media claim we are ALL doing. I stopped going out and binge drinking a long time ago......I grew up. But a lot don't. Despite the belief that it is a youth culture thing there are as many middle aged drinkers getting drunk and causing trouble at the weekends as there are the younger end.

Matt is so right about respect. I went to America on 2008 and was blown away by the respect shown there and the level of manners people had. I have to say that the Americans I met were great and I think we should change the names to Great America and Britain cos you guys put a large part of this countries populace to shame.

I actually ran a martial arts school here for eight years and going to America made me realise I was wasting my time and I closed my school to concentrate on other things shortly after I came back. Because of all the political correctness in this country now I was unable to have the discipline in my school that was traditional and required. Over the 19 years I studied in martial arts I noticed the steady change in students, especially kids. They were getting softer, complaining more, back chatting, aggressive, lazy, etc etc. I could go on but I will stop LOL :D

All I can say to finish is BRING BACK NATIONAL SERVICE!!!!!!:thumbsup:

JBT27
02-07-2010, 04:27 AM
It's a complex issue, and those fleeing our shores will likely find it as bad in other countries, just in different ways. Our media loves hyping the 'worst' in UK society, and does a very good job of it. Personally I blame the greed culture. We have those who rely on social services to live, and are probably now third and fourth generation where they know nothing else. Then we have those with money, and we also have the legacy culture Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reegan brought about where people see money and the resulting popularity as the holy grail to a wonderful life. Those at the bottom of the heap are fed bollocks on TV to aspire to - look at the popularity of Simon Callow's various freak shows and the delusion many have - and aspire to fame and money and a quick fix to get them out of their 'drudgery'. Those at the top are scared at those at the bottom as the press paint them all as evil money-grubbing filth. The reality, as ever, is never as black and white, but the issues are there, in much the same way that I assume they are in every culture.<snip>.

Duncan

I have to agree with all that, and especially so with the get-rich-quick ethos, which in my view is disturbingly coupled with the whole dumbing-down of society. Scholarship, craft, genuine talent and aptitude driven by hard work now give way to the desire to be rich and famous as a career option, for doing and achieving as little as possible.

Achievement is not rewarded so much now, and the fact it takes a lifetime to become truly experienced and expert at whatever you do is something many do not want to face, especially some of the younger generations.

Instead of learning from and respecting that experience, each new generation successively now re-invents the wheel, younger and younger it goes.

So for some reason, instead of buckling down and starting out on whatever you think you might want to do, there seems to be this aimlessness, with the hope that something with alot of money attached will come along, and you'll be fine. Or at least if you have worked hard, you will reach the pinnacle of your field in your 20s.

You might as well make a career out of wasting your life waiting to win the lottery - for most, it just ain't going to happen.

Further, the prevalence of the paper-pushing culture - and the promise that 'you can be whatever you want to be' blah blah, are no substitute for simply choosing something and getting on with it, and something that you can do and hopefully might be content with. Everyone cannot be a cgi artist, or an archaeologist, or game designer, or surgeon, or engineer, or whatever.

I must be honest and say that Britain is not the place to be, and my nephew and his friends, who are around 18 or so, all have that opinion independently. Unfortunately, I will agree that I suspect this has become a universal problem and not just with Britain. It's not applying to everyone of course, but this whole pub fighting plastic 'glass' crap seems indicative of it.

Anyway, whatever happened to hitting someone with a bar-stool?? :D

Julian.

Kuzey
02-07-2010, 05:57 AM
This would make a cool trick to play on friends...give them non-alcoholic beer and say it's the real thing and watch them make a fool of themselves...acting drunk and what not :D

Kuzey

Lightwolf
02-07-2010, 06:35 AM
Fallacy. The flavour of beer is dependent on fermentation which necessarily produces alcohol.
Yup, but the alcohol can be extracted after that process, there's a bunch of different methods to do so.
And if you've ever tasted an alcohol free Schneiders Weissbier (for example) you start to really wonder if the alcohol is necessary.

Cheers,
Mike

Lightwolf
02-07-2010, 06:38 AM
This would make a cool trick to play on friends...give them non-alcoholic beer and say it's the real thing and watch them make a fool of themselves...acting drunk and what not :D

That actually works quite well (if you manage to fool them in the first place). We're a lot less in control than we'd like to think ;)

Cheers,
Mike

Captain Obvious
02-07-2010, 07:26 AM
Wow, I didn't know the English, ah, countryside was that bad! Y'all should move to London, instead! Really, it's a nice place!

crashnburn
02-07-2010, 07:31 AM
The English countryside is fine, it's the cities and towns that are the problem. My stepdad is a taxi driver in the local town and he stopped driving Friday and Saturday nights because of the hastles. Away from town we have plenty of nice quiet country pubs round here where the idiots don't go. And the drinks taste better (properly kept beer), and they are cheaper, and you can hear yourself speak lol. But I suppose it's all relative to what you are used to.

Soth
02-07-2010, 11:21 AM
Terrible immigration policy - We just can't handle the numbers coming in, and our services are stretched (please don't read this as racist, it's just a simple fact of people coming in > what we can handle).

I am not sure how to read that, seriously, I am paying crazy taxes, my wife pays full fee for the college course, it is much more than Brits pay ...and my current position was empty for 3 months before they found me.

I am pretty sure that ii am not only one who lives like that. Is difficult to stay be not offended.

I am fully aware that I would earn less in my country, I had my own company and I was struggling. I moved here and I feel like I contribute only. So what about me is so difficult to handle?

I had to pay silly 90 to get myself registered in Home Office... crazy administration fee for nothing else but get myself counted.

crashnburn
02-07-2010, 11:43 AM
Soth, the problem in the UK is a lot deeper than just the number of workers coming here from other countries. The country has problems which have been getting worse year after year. The large number of workers coming into the country has just made the problems more obvious. Where I work I work with around 100 people from various European countries and I can happily say I get on with all of them. The problem is the load that over 3 million people coming into the country has put on housing and the NHS. The number of nurses and doctors is not variable depending on the number of people in country at any one time. The biggest problem I know of is housing. Workers coming here to work have been struggling to find somewhere to live, which means the greatest effect has been on them in that case. As far as I can remember there is also believed to be a conservative figure of 250000 people working illegally in the UK as well, people who are being badly treated and poorly paid. Hardly a good thing really.

Personally, I have no problem with anyone who wants to come to the UK to work. As can be seen in a few replies on here, quite a few people from the UK have moved to various countries such as the USA and Canada. But as far as I am aware, and I could be wrong (please correct me if I am), the numbers allowed to enter and work is limited. Will that be cause for protest? (playng devil's advocate).

T-Light
02-07-2010, 11:50 AM
Soth -

Is difficult to stay be not offended.
I really don't think Matt's including you there Soth. To give you some background on UK imigration policy, the current Gov implemented an open door policy some years ago, in part, to annoy one of the opposition parties. It's brought them an awful lot of trouble since.

It's made worse by the media culture of mixing everyday immigration with illegal immigration. All immigrants are piled together which is entirely wrong.

To give you some idea of how bad it's become, one of the London councils (Lambeth?) did a survey to show how few illegal immigrants lived in their borough. Embarrasingly, Part way through the survey they'd counted over 30,000 people. They promptly stopped the survey saying they'd ran out of cash :D

Captain Obvious
02-07-2010, 12:02 PM
I had to pay silly 90 to get myself registered in Home Office... crazy administration fee for nothing else but get myself counted.
So you're from outside the EU, then? I can't remember paying anything, ever. You know, other than a thousand pounds a month worth of taxes and NHS contributions...



As for the whole "immigration" thing, I would really like to see some statistics on immigration employment in the UK. I keep hearing people whine and moan about how people move over here to go on benefits, but out of the people I know are taking unfair advantage of the benefits, every single one is born and raised in the UK. Obviously, people I know is a very poor representation of the population in general, but I have never seen any indication that immigrants would be more likely to try and trick the system into giving them money, than people with a longer history here.

People of overseas origin account for approximately 10 % of the UK population. Roughly 73 % of the UK working age population is in gainful employment, with the open unemployment rate at roughly 8 %. I was unable to find statistics for employment rates amongst working-age, non-student, foreigners.

According to every single piece of statistics I could find, the conclusion seems to be that immigration, on the whole, is beneficial.

Immigrants have, on average, longer education. The percentage of immigrants who left education at an age greater than 21 years was 36 % in 2005 — compared to 17 % for UK nationals. When looking at just new arrivals, instead of all immigrants, the figure was 45 %. Effectively, immigrants are three times as likely of having a lengthy education.

42 % of all employed immigrants work in "professional" jobs — compared to 40 % for UK nationals.

According to a Home Office study based on fiscal year 1999-2000 data, immigrants paid Paid 31.2 billion in taxes, and received 28.8 billion in public goods and services — a net gain of two and a half billion pounds.

Basically, according to every single source of data I could find, the average immigrant contributes more to the well-being of the UK economy, than the average UK national.



So... let's ship 'em all back to whence they came, shall we? I mean, who needs a functioning economy when you've got racial hygiene to worry about?

shrox
02-07-2010, 12:09 PM
I was an illegal alien and didn't pay any taxes (except VATs). Where do I fit in? I was also a victim of human trafficking, so I guess that balances it out.

Captain Obvious
02-07-2010, 12:10 PM
I was an illegal alien and didn't pay any taxes (except VATs). Where do I fit in? I was also a victim of human trafficking, so I guess that balances it out.
But you're also a "drugged fueled idiot" or whatever it was, so I don't trust you enough to believe you.

shrox
02-07-2010, 12:12 PM
But you're also a "drugged fueled idiot" or whatever it was, so I don't trust you enough to believe you.

Can you even be sure I am here?

Captain Obvious
02-07-2010, 12:15 PM
Can you even be sure I am here?
Empirically? No, of course not.

shrox
02-07-2010, 12:23 PM
Empirically? No, of course not.

Oh, I wish someone could.

Soth
02-07-2010, 12:33 PM
So you're from outside the EU, then?

I am from EU my wife is not.


You know, other than a thousand pounds a month worth of taxes and NHS contributions...

I read that and I thought, is he crazy? Then I dig out couple of my recent payslips and... wow, I really do not mind paying NHS but taxes?

And I do mind this immigration 'debate', my wife lost her job because no one here seems to care about law, Home Office is not helpful at all (you need to sort this out by yourself) and lawyer charges 130/hour, because we are weak enough to abuse but not poor enough to get free legal help!

And I will just skip all lovely stories how she almost got deported and how visa is not visa, how you need to leave country to get this visa/not visa, how no visa national need visa to get job, because stamp in the passport is enough for job centre and no one else, how you need to argue with fly companies crew, how immigration officers treat you like piece of sh1t and you cannot talk back, how you cannot get decent housing because you immigrant, how you credit score will stay low forever because you cannot register yourself for voting, because you cannot vote... and many many more. We like here and we doing fine, is just hard sometimes.

We just gave up, that was silly part time job to help us pay college fees, but still, you do not sleep well when you get f*cked up... and, where, in UK? lol