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Riff_Masteroff
01-17-2010, 11:59 AM
From today's Washington Post newspaper (01/17/10 page A5):

" NASA has slashed the price of 1970's era spaceships from $42 million to $28.8 million apiece. The shuttles are for sale once they quit flying, supposedly this fall. . . . . . . The space shuttle main engines are now free. . . . . . So now the engines are available, along with other shuttle artifacts, for the cost of transportation and handling."

Sad. Oh well.

JBT27
01-17-2010, 12:04 PM
Is that 'sad' because you can't afford one :D (and I'm assuming, so could be wrong), or 'sad' as in end of an era?

Well, sad on many levels, but more to come and as long as they keep pushing outwards I'm OK with it, I guess - a bit simplistic perhaps, but there you go, that's how I feel.

Julian.

Captain Obvious
01-17-2010, 12:28 PM
So when are they building that space elevator, then?

cresshead
01-17-2010, 12:43 PM
So when are they building that space elevator, then?

right now we have the tech to make a space elevator for the moon, that's to say to be able the bring stuff up and down to the moon from orbit around the moon as it requires much less balancing than a space elecvator for earth which needs to be 30,000- miles long...moon is smaller an less gravity etc:hey:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/Space_elevator_structural_diagram.svg/240px-Space_elevator_structural_diagram.svg.png


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Kohlenstoffnanoroehre_Animation.gif

Riff_Masteroff
01-17-2010, 12:45 PM
As we speak, there is only one shuttle craft on display in a museum setting. It is located in Virginia, USA at the extension facility of the Smithsonian Air & Space Museum (located at Dulles International Airport). And that is not, nor was ever a launch-able craft. It is a one to one scale mock up, used for manufacturing previz, component & heat tile fit and ferry testing (on top of a 747 airliner). Of course, the museum displays the object as "the real thingy" and will not say its just an exact scale model.

Close by (tens of feet away) is a very real SR 71 on display. That particular plane (google it) was flown into Dulles airport and then towed to the Smithsonian annex.

Arguably either display represents world wide human technology at its near time apex. I used the word 'sad' in the sense of: I fear that humanity is devolving. The cinema plots may show themselves as true eventually. And we, you and I, could not manage to create an ascending culture that betters both the earth along with its human players.

JBT27
01-17-2010, 12:46 PM
So when are they building that space elevator, then?

As my Grandma used to say: when Nelson gets his eye back .....

Julian.

KurtF
01-17-2010, 01:12 PM
The cinema plots may show themselves as true eventually.

There have been an awful lot of end of the world stories, both in the past and certainly recently.

The financiers definitely are running the U.S. government, along with the oil industry, drug, and insurance companies.

Thank goodness for Tesla Motors electric car, along with various grass roots solar and wind developments. Also note, while the U.S. is failing to make progress - Denmark and others are aggressively moving towards hydrogen creation via wind and solar. They, along with China and India, may be the next great world powers, once the U.S. looses it's superiority.

Denmark Hydrogen Wind Facility (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolland_Hydrogen_Community)

JBT27
01-17-2010, 01:24 PM
As we speak, there is only one shuttle craft on display in a museum setting. It is located in Virginia, USA at the extension facility of the Smithsonian Air & Space Museum (located at Dulles International Airport). And that is not, nor was ever a launch-able craft. It is a one to one scale mock up, used for manufacturing previz, component & heat tile fit and ferry testing (on top of a 747 airliner). Of course, the museum displays the object as "the real thingy" and will not say its just an exact scale model.

Close by (tens of feet away) is a very real SR 71 on display. That particular plane (google it) was flown into Dulles airport and then towed to the Smithsonian annex.

Arguably either display represents world wide human technology at its near time apex. I used the word 'sad' in the sense of: I fear that humanity is devolving. The cinema plots may show themselves as true eventually. And we, you and I, could not manage to create an ascending culture that betters both the earth along with its human players.

Ah well, I suspect I see that devolving as well, locally, nationally and indeed internationally.

The achievement of ascending culture requires interested, curious and driven people, and lots of them ..... lots ..... I don't see that. A friend, retired from his lifelong work at the local museum is saying the exact same thing; a general 'dumbing-down'.

Back in the 1950s, the now elderly group of aerospace engineers responsible for much of what we celebrate and remember in Apollo and the Shuttle and the rest, openly admit to their childhood inspirations including Chesley Bonestell's work. I certainly don't suggest that each upcoming generation is failing, but it sums it up to realise that anyone who now sees a piece of fantasy art wants to be a cgi artist and not necessarily an engineer ..... and I have that from someone at NASA even, who are struggling like mad to get young people interested.

Perhaps I don't see the long-view very well, and we are in a very downbeat era that sees nothing but chaos and failure ahead, but it ain't looking great right now. My friend from the museum is heartily glad he's in his 60s and won't live to see much more.

..... and that was a very downbeat post, miserable sod that I am :D

Julian.

cc3d
01-17-2010, 01:30 PM
There have been an awful lot of end of the world stories, both in the past and certainly recently.

The financiers definitely are running the U.S. government, along with the oil industry, drug, and insurance companies.

Thank goodness for Tesla Motors electric car, along with various grass roots solar and wind developments. Also note, while the U.S. is failing to make progress - Denmark and others are aggressively moving towards hydrogen creation via wind and solar. They, along with China and India, may be the next great world powers, once the U.S. looses it's superiority.

Denmark Hydrogen Wind Facility (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolland_Hydrogen_Community)

You know, you can watch movies, but you don't have to believe they're all true...

Riff_Masteroff
01-17-2010, 05:35 PM
..... and that was a very downbeat post, miserable sod that I am :D. . . .

Julian: an informative response: tnx

Tell them I put you up to it.
Riff

toby
01-17-2010, 07:37 PM
From today's Washington Post newspaper (01/17/10 page A5):

" NASA has slashed the price of 1970's era spaceships from $42 million to $28.8 million apiece. The shuttles are for sale once they quit flying, supposedly this fall. . . . . . . The space shuttle main engines are now free. . . . . . So now the engines are available, along with other shuttle artifacts, for the cost of transportation and handling."

Sad. Oh well.
You know some rich *ucker is going to buy one and make a living room out of it. I would. Damnit I should've gone the rich route and studied banking... or real estate... :deal:

Bill_Evans
01-17-2010, 08:20 PM
As we speak, there is only one shuttle craft on display in a museum setting. It is located in Virginia, USA at the extension facility of the Smithsonian Air & Space Museum (located at Dulles International Airport). And that is not, nor was ever a launch-able craft. It is a one to one scale mock up, used for manufacturing previz, component & heat tile fit and ferry testing (on top of a 747 airliner). Of course, the museum displays the object as "the real thingy" and will not say its just an exact scale model.

Close by (tens of feet away) is a very real SR 71 on display. That particular plane (google it) was flown into Dulles airport and then towed to the Smithsonian annex.


We've got Pathfinder here, and there is Explorer at the cape, so while I would agree you have the better of the craft on display, I'm not sure I can agree its the only one. In addition, I and most other engineers in town would take exception to calling OV-101 not a real thing. It and Columbia were basically identical at first build. Its takes alot more then a mockup to disconnect during flight aboard a 747 and land at Edwards as Enterprise did 5 times. In addition, mockups wouldnt withstand the engine tests done here at Marshall on the Enterprise either. OV-101 (Enterprise) and OV-102 (Columbia) were originally supposed to be the first two space flight shuttles, however it was decided after the conversion of Columbia to full flight mode, that the modifications implemented there would be easier/cheaper to carry out on Challenger (OV-099), rather then Enterprise, so Challenger became the 2nd Space Worthy shuttle. However Enterprise has been used for alot of things since most recently the Columbia investigation.
-Bill

lwaddict
01-20-2010, 07:56 AM
As my Grandma used to say: when Nelson gets his eye back .....

Julian.

Thanks mang...
I just spit coffee all over my 23" screen.

I was NOT expecting to laugh like that on this thread.

You just made my day. :thumbsup:

Lightwolf
01-20-2010, 08:11 AM
As we speak, there is only one shuttle craft on display in a museum setting.
Does a Buran count? ;) http://speyer.technik-museum.de/exhibits/spaceshuttle-buran/sp_647.html

Cheers,
Mike

Nangleator
01-20-2010, 10:31 AM
I fear that humanity is devolving.
It's no longer profitable to improve technology at the fastest rate possible. It's not in the best interests of the richest to allow technologies that set us free.

Bill_Evans
01-20-2010, 11:23 AM
Does a Buran count? ;) http://speyer.technik-museum.de/exhibits/spaceshuttle-buran/sp_647.html

Cheers,
Mike


If it does then Moscow has two of them :) and you have 3rd surviving one. Unfortunately the only one that went to space got crushed in a warehouse collapse back in 2002.
-Tig

Riff_Masteroff
01-20-2010, 11:35 AM
Does a Buran count? ;) http://speyer.technik-museum.de/exhibits/spaceshuttle-buran/sp_647.html

Cheers,
Mike

Yes it counts. Seems that there are shuttles on display all around this world. I didn't know that a Buran (never launch-able) prototype is on museum display in Germany. Not too much different than the Enterprise on view in my area. From what I read, an actual Buran flew orbital for three hours unmanned and automatically & remotely controlled. Also, Bill Evans' two postings were quite informative. As Bill noted: the previously launched Buran was later destroyed when its hanger collapsed. Photo attached:

The deeper framing of my seeder posting was (quoting myself):
"I used the word 'sad' in the sense of: I fear that humanity is devolving. The cinema plots may show themselves as true eventually. And we, you and I, could not manage to create an ascending culture that betters both the earth along with its human players."

And that was considered by Nangleator, JBT27 and others.

Lightwolf
01-20-2010, 01:50 PM
... I fear that humanity is devolving....
Maybe it's just a shift of focus. Just like the Concorde doesn't fit in our times anymore - or SUVs for that matter.
On the other hand there's private space flight (well, scratches ;) ).

Cheers,
Mike