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View Full Version : Battlestar Galactica....when did it jump the shark?



Intuition
01-13-2010, 12:44 PM
This thread is based on a curious discussion here at DD many months ago at multiple lunches.

Battlestar Galactica was an awesome series, for a whlie at least, and it also has some super sweet Cg fx ala LW that is Emmy award winning and quite spectacular.

Now that we have that out of the way I want to say that feel like BSG lost its sense of reality (with in certain sci-fi contexts of course) and or sense of story somewhere along the way.

Was it the 3rd season.. 4th season?

I personally think that after they escaped the occupation the show lost its direction and slowly started to fall apart.

There were still some sweet spots here and there through to the end but in general BSG just deflated too much for me. So much in fact I have never really watched much of season 4 because I would get a few scenes into an episode and fall asleep or start to channel surf and forget I was watching it.

I did watch the last 2-3 episodes and they were kind of fun due to the action but none of the plot lines actually built up to anything.

So, please... for fun sake... just like that Phantom Menace Review..., let loose on the BSG and tell me where it started to break for you.

For me the fact that Colonel Tai and Chief were Cylons just about killed it off right it one stroke. Tai's arc is too cool to have him be a cylon. It just sucks and removes some of the blind conviction from the pool of personality forces..

Lee Adama no longer fighting in space ships but in a courtroom was ok but we really liked seeing him and Kara dogfighting.

Kara Thrace become completely annoying. She went from being the cut throat fight to the death character to being uber nuts and unrelatable at a certain point. She was one of the protagonists and then got changed up into a non-protaganist character.

..OK go!

shrox
01-13-2010, 01:03 PM
Two things for me. The first the episode with the escaped human prisoner who flew a stealth Viper into Cylon territory, second, why wasn't a happy border collie running around with Apollo in that field on the newly named Earth? Why weren't border collies featured more on BG? How come they never had a box a kittens? Is this more than two? Screw you, here's more...how did they come up with 24 hours in a day? Hours the same length as ours'? How come they used ugly old European cars in that garage scene instead of nice Saturns? What was that our episode I didn't like, oh yeah, Blade, or no, Gillette, no...Razor! Ha, yeah, whatever.

I'm just bitter because I didn't get to work on the show. That and I need a girlfriend...

littlewaves
01-13-2010, 01:13 PM
It jumped the shark when they made Dirk Benedict a girl.

littlewaves
01-13-2010, 01:16 PM
It also jumped the shark when it wasn't the second season of Firefly

CC Rider
01-13-2010, 01:45 PM
I learned to like Starbuck as a girl...or tolerate may be more accurate.
Always thought it was a change that didn't really need to happen. Plenty of room for other strong female characters to develop and didn't see the need to change that one.
I continued to watch, but the worst thing for me was using the work "frak".
I hated it!
I finally had a sci-fi show that my wife could actually enjoy watching with me (she could care less about most sci-fi), but everytime they used that word, my wife would roll here eyes because it was so retarded. She finally bailed because of that. So many other words to write the script with that the sensors let slide and they continued to use that one - a lot!
It pulled me out of the story every time I heard it because it was another thing that didn't need to happen.
I will admit that the actors did a good job of delivering the line with a straight face though...
I thought it would have been immeasurably more believable without it.
I still liked the show in spite of that though.

Titus
01-13-2010, 03:27 PM
I personally think that after they escaped the occupation the show lost its direction and slowly started to fall apart.


I feel the same. At first I thought it was due they burnt all the money in the first episode, you know, if you don't have money for effects make your characters talk the rest of the episode.

It was a real problem to watch the series here in Mexico, every season was released on different channels, and different hours. Season 3 took like a year after the US release and we are still waiting season 4.

littlewaves
01-13-2010, 03:27 PM
well now there's another reason Firefly was better. They used chinese in place of swearing which sounded way more convincing than simply mincing a real English swear word.

Having said which when I looked up the chinese translations (oh yes I did!) it turns out they're less profane and more just plain bizarre like "Motherless goat of all motherless goats!"

Oh and Firefly did that whole handheld camera snap zoom thing way before it got recycled (and overdone) for BSG.

Titus
01-13-2010, 03:31 PM
I'm just bitter because I didn't get to work on the show. .

He he. I attended a party at Zoic when the first season was airing. Oh man, I wanted to work there.

Chris S. (Fez)
01-13-2010, 04:09 PM
More robots, less religion.

Soth
01-13-2010, 04:11 PM
I work for big defence contractor company and I everyday see military equipment being developed.

Drama was getting worse and worse, but that was slow process, when the Chief build space ship in two weeks with DIY equipment I thought that is enough of silliness... ;)

shrox
01-13-2010, 04:13 PM
... build space ship in two weeks with DIY equipment I thought that is enough of silliness... ;)

But, but, that's what I am doing. Taking more than two weeks though...

Stooch
01-13-2010, 06:35 PM
haha, actually i discussed this with my friend recently.

BSG lost me because of the stupd long delay they did that interrupted the last few epizodes and the season finale. The engaging story really sucked me in and i really wanted to see more asap, but after the artificial delay for whatever reasons, i simply stopped caring, and when the series resumed i never bothered to follow up..

i own all the dvds up to that point too, i was really a fan, even wanted to work on it. then i heard they are going to to caprica and get rid of the cast i was like MEH.

what a dumb marketing decision on their part to delay those epizodes... its not just me, but my friends who just stopped caring. some marketing person needs to get fired.
they should have just let the series run out naturally while the interest was fresh.. also towards the end, some of the episodes felt like filler, so a sense of cheese factor set in.
i loved the frantic beginning with the constant cylon attacks and action, and the suspense, then it just went all soap operaish on us.

Again, i think they just started to draw it out for some reason and instead of fast paced action, you get all these self indulgent monologues and convoluted burocracy...

on a related note, i was walking out of the studio one day and this gorgeous, long haired, skinny blonde, beamed a dazzling smile at me as i walked by...

it was Katee Sackhoff, she was there on a casting call.


This thread is based on a curious discussion here at DD many months ago at multiple lunches.

Battlestar Galactica was an awesome series, for a whlie at least, and it also has some super sweet Cg fx ala LW that is Emmy award winning and quite spectacular.

Now that we have that out of the way I want to say that feel like BSG lost its sense of reality (with in certain sci-fi contexts of course) and or sense of story somewhere along the way.

Was it the 3rd season.. 4th season?

I personally think that after they escaped the occupation the show lost its direction and slowly started to fall apart.

There were still some sweet spots here and there through to the end but in general BSG just deflated too much for me. So much in fact I have never really watched much of season 4 because I would get a few scenes into an episode and fall asleep or start to channel surf and forget I was watching it.

I did watch the last 2-3 episodes and they were kind of fun due to the action but none of the plot lines actually built up to anything.

So, please... for fun sake... just like that Phantom Menace Review..., let loose on the BSG and tell me where it started to break for you.

For me the fact that Colonel Tai and Chief were Cylons just about killed it off right it one stroke. Tai's arc is too cool to have him be a cylon. It just sucks and removes some of the blind conviction from the pool of personality forces..

Lee Adama no longer fighting in space ships but in a courtroom was ok but we really liked seeing him and Kara dogfighting.

Kara Thrace become completely annoying. She went from being the cut throat fight to the death character to being uber nuts and unrelatable at a certain point. She was one of the protagonists and then got changed up into a non-protaganist character.

..OK go!

cresshead
01-13-2010, 07:32 PM
50% thru third season was the death of BSG for me...the court room thing [yawn] and the col. being a cylon as the chief a cylon....double yawn

4th season was pretty poop in my eyes...when they hit earth that should have been the end...and kara coming back was silly..too much religion in the show and politics...
put it this way...i've yet to buy season 4...it was that bad for me!

calilifestyle
01-13-2010, 11:24 PM
I think it jumped the shark when the robots started having babies.

JBT27
01-14-2010, 12:39 PM
For me it was Lee Adama switching to politics; probably quite plausible but I didn't believe it or enjoy watching the yawn-fest that turned into.

I seem to be pretty tolerant of alot of stuff, even when I know it's crap - I could have accepted the whole resurrected Starbuck thing, providing the finale explained enough of the why and how, even if it had ended with a jaw-dropper ..... which it didn't really because by then I really didn't care and had run out of tolerance! Still bought the whole darn thing on DVD though - that's how I saw it in fact - watching between 5 and 8 episodes per week.

But still, it kept me glued to it alot longer than alot of this stuff.

..... oh yeah ..... Firefly ..... put the box set for that and 'Serenity' next to the row of BSG sets ..... I still got a bigger kick out of Firefly. Crying shame, that was.

Julian.

Rayek
01-14-2010, 09:52 PM
I agree - the plot got lost in itself even before the occupation as far as I am concerned. Season four did have its moments, but got too psychological. Dualla shooting herself, Dee a Cylon, Starbuck returns (discovering a dead version of herself)... it all got quite unfocused. And I did not really care about the ending in the end, because I felt out of touch with the story.

This became even more obvious since I started watching Babylon 5 once again a month ago: even though I watched the whole thing before, I was still on the edge of my seat during a LOT of episodes. The tension keeps building up till the climax in the middle of season 4 - and it just works. Sure, the effects/compositing are completely outdated and some of the filler episodes aren't exactly brilliant, but on overall the story/plot by itself keeps it exciting, even for this second run. The first time around I felt sad the series had ended - no such feeling with BSG. And yes, Firefly... sad, sad story.

Intuition
01-17-2010, 05:09 PM
Yeah, I agree with most sentiments so far. I really felt like there should have been some sort of payoff. I feel like Razor was a much better ending to the series then season 4.

None of the setup plotlines ever went anywhere.

Like the idea that Hera was this major singularity that was going to make ro break the survival.

Starbuck was having visions never really paid out.

Balthazar I think was building up to eventually become the hero of the series. I mean he was all repulsive and you figured after he was at his utmost disgusting that maybe he would have figured out somthing and really did the cylons in and redeemed himself. So it would have ended up he was responsible for the 12 colonies but also responsible for saving the race in the end. That would have been a good arc.

I really hate all these damn "live together" sci-fi hippie moveis. I mean. They ruined the matrix with co-exist and the same can be said for BSG.

I realize there are a lot of people who want these analogies to reflect what we want in our own world with the middle east an all, but seriousy, can one side just win FCOL?

I'll think of more later. Maybe that guy who reviewed the phantom menace can review BSG.

SBowie
01-17-2010, 05:50 PM
Maybe Starbuck will do better in her new posting at CTU ...

shrox
01-17-2010, 07:06 PM
What about the lack of kittens?

shrox
01-17-2010, 07:40 PM
Too dangerous for kittens or daggits. Or is that daggets?

They had at least one border collie and one cat.

Daggits, I believe.

Verlon
01-17-2010, 11:04 PM
When...probably second season or the very beginning of the third - for viewers.

You know your in trouble when each season is worse than the one before it.

The problem (and really, Ron Moore should have known about this from his work on Star Trek and how fans griped there) was a horrible writing inconsitency.

1. Cylons have a technological parity with humans such that it was a fight (i.e. the humans actually COULD get away and drag the flight out for hours, much less years).

2. Cylons have superhuman strength, modems in their arms that link with ship computers via a convenient interface, can hold their breath for an hour etc...

3. Cylons can pass a routine physical, nevermind a flight physical or something really drastic like an x-ray or ultrasound.

Now...pick two and write that way.

Don't even get me started on the who religion thing, or abusing frak because they could get away with it (though Baltar slipped once and used the real word during the first run...the episode where it flashed back to his dad).

Starbuck is either -
1. The best pilot EVER (but a bit insubordinate)
2. A raving headcase you could never trust with a weapon - ever, nevermind one of the few remaining Vipers in the fleet.

(she would have been more useful as a broodmare at that point..save the ace fighter genes)

Pick one and write it.

And what exactly was making copies of her anyway?

"Let's destroy our ships" Really? Why? No really, WHY? THat was about the stupidest idea I ever heard. What about the medical facilites on those ships? What if you need to leave that planet? Why not colonize another one in case Ceti Alpha IV shift orbit and lays everything to waste and you don't have Khan's genetically engineered intellect to help you survive? What if the cylons come back because they don't trust the meatbags (as well they shouldn't given our history with them)?

And so on...

JBT27
01-18-2010, 02:28 AM
<snip>

"Let's destroy our ships" Really? Why? No really, WHY? THat was about the stupidest idea I ever heard. What about the medical facilites on those ships? What if you need to leave that planet? Why not colonize another one in case Ceti Alpha IV shift orbit and lays everything to waste and you don't have Khan's genetically engineered intellect to help you survive? What if the cylons come back because they don't trust the meatbags (as well they shouldn't given our history with them)?

And so on...

Actually, I said about it needing a jaw-dropper ..... and now you remind me, yeah, this was it, but for all the wrong reasons. I was actually incredulous watching this - incredulous for the writers.

The single justification, uttered by that lawyer guy turned president, "Never underestimate the power of a fresh start." ..... HUH?? All those lines of people heading into the wilderness only with backpacks, and then our heroes citing their desire to become homesteaders, or mountain men, or explorers ..... please ..... utter tosh.

All of that would make some sense, in some cases, providing there was an infrastructure based around the ships. At that point, the threat was largely over, so there were alot of choices: stay on the ships, use the ships for building, go native, build a settlement, continue exploring, whatever. And given that it was actually our world, 150,000 years ago, endless scenarios for the finale to leave the fans satisified/anticipatory/excited/resolved/so on ..... AND, you could still have ended with that modern-day sequence with 6 and Baltar, throwing even more carrots to the fans ..... and leaving it wide-open for follow-ons, whether that be sometime or never.

It's all very well directors and writers loftily claiming that it's their work and they know what they're doing blah blah, but seriously, they have some significant duty to show that they are what they say they are - storytellers. Time after time, you see so many shows going down the pan, because the writers, basically, aren't that good.

But maybe that's unfair - I don't know the writing process nor the politics; maybe sometimes they get railroaded into things they don't agree with, but have to agree to because of their jobs, etc. Dunno.

But so often what grounds fantasy is reality - the stuff we all recognise. So Starbuck: be sure you want to kill her off, then leave her dead. Anything else is a cheap trick and doesn't wash without some major-league story to support it.

Julian.

shrox
01-18-2010, 07:42 AM
Actually, I said about it needing a jaw-dropper ..... and now you remind me, yeah, this was it, but for all the wrong reasons. I was actually incredulous watching this - incredulous for the writers.

The single justification, uttered by that lawyer guy turned president, "Never underestimate the power of a fresh start." ..... HUH?? All those lines of people heading into the wilderness only with backpacks, and then our heroes citing their desire to become homesteaders, or mountain men, or explorers ..... please ..... utter tosh.

All of that would make some sense, in some cases, providing there was an infrastructure based around the ships. At that point, the threat was largely over, so there were alot of choices: stay on the ships, use the ships for building, go native, build a settlement, continue exploring, whatever. And given that it was actually our world, 150,000 years ago, endless scenarios for the finale to leave the fans satisified/anticipatory/excited/resolved/so on ...

It happened in the United States just 150 years ago. The American West was opened for settlement, and thousands of people, rich and poor alike left the security of Eastern cities and when off in covered wagons for a "fresh start". My grandfather was one.

Kuzey
01-18-2010, 07:56 AM
The idea with destroying the ships was done so as not to influence the infant race with their prejudices and technology....which seemed fine with me. After all, their entire life was changed by technology...they built the robots that began to think/evolve and later Nuke them. I think if the planet didn't have human life...then, I'm sure they would have kept the ships.

I loved the show, but I didn't get a few things.

How did Gaius Baltar survived the first Nuke attack just by ducking in front of Six?

Why have a president/congress when there is only less the 50 thousand people left.

Why the need for two dozen reporters??

Even though the writers/produces wanted the idea of democracy/capitalism to survive, it felt like it was in name only. Manufacturing was dead...people didn't earn wages via jobs etc...they just kept doing what they were used to and got fed....how much, depending on their situation.

Were the alter egos of Gaius & Six, the ones that no one else could see...angels.


Kuzey

Verlon
01-18-2010, 07:57 AM
It happened in the United States just 150 years ago. The American West was opened for settlement, and thousands of people, rich and poor alike left the security of Eastern cities and when off in covered wagons for a "fresh start". My grandfather was one.

That isn't even close to the same thing.

Futher, I promise that if you gather 40,000 people living in OUR time (much closer to the tech level and standard of living), not quite at random... these were people on or near space ships at the time of the destruction... that you wouldn't get anything like a unanimous (or even simple majority) to agree to throw away all that technology and pray that nothing really nasty turns up on this new homeworld.

And the series never really clarified that the bad cylons were destroyed...supposedly, there was a scene that did, but it got cut.

Verlon
01-18-2010, 08:08 AM
don't wantto influence the infant race with technology.... much better to let them take their chances with small pox. Yeah..Brilliant.

The technology..even that to build cylons.. wasn't evil. Apparently, according to BSG lore (not Caprica Lore), it wasn't until they were used to fight wars that they developed their own ideas about who the enemy was. Technology isn't evil, but it can be misused.

Kuzey
01-18-2010, 08:10 AM
And the series never really clarified that the bad cylons were destroyed...supposedly, there was a scene that did, but it got cut.

There could be a spin off series in that. But, going by the last episode, since nothing happened for a 150,000 years or so, one could be safe in thinking they are living peacefully somewhere....or are slowly rebuilding their force :D

Kuzey

shrox
01-18-2010, 08:16 AM
That isn't even close to the same thing.

Futher, I promise that if you gather 40,000 people living in OUR time (much closer to the tech level and standard of living), not quite at random... these were people on or near space ships at the time of the destruction... that you wouldn't get anything like a unanimous (or even simple majority) to agree to throw away all that technology and pray that nothing really nasty turns up on this new homeworld.

And the series never really clarified that the bad cylons were destroyed...supposedly, there was a scene that did, but it got cut.

OK, how about the Pilgrims and Quakers that came to the New World? They did have a real threat they fled, make an arduous journey, then they programmed the guidance computers on their wooden ships to fly off into sun...

Kuzey
01-18-2010, 08:19 AM
don't wantto influence the infant race with technology.... much better to let them take their chances with small pox. Yeah..Brilliant.

The technology..even that to build cylons.. wasn't evil. Apparently, according to BSG lore (not Caprica Lore), it wasn't until they were used to fight wars that they developed their own ideas about who the enemy was. Technology isn't evil, but it can be misused.

Well, you're stuck on a ship and in a war for years....you have lost everyone you loved and have grown tied of it all. You get to a period where you just want to get back to basic life, breathe the fresh air and start all over again....look to and dream about the future.

If they kept the ships and having to go out and find fuel for them all the time and what not, they could leave a trail for the bad cylons to find them and finish them off with a nuke or two.

Anyway, they didn't have any battleships left to protect them....just civil ships if I remember.

Kuzey

JBT27
01-18-2010, 10:47 AM
That isn't even close to the same thing.

Futher, I promise that if you gather 40,000 people living in OUR time (much closer to the tech level and standard of living), not quite at random... these were people on or near space ships at the time of the destruction... that you wouldn't get anything like a unanimous (or even simple majority) to agree to throw away all that technology and pray that nothing really nasty turns up on this new homeworld.

And the series never really clarified that the bad cylons were destroyed...supposedly, there was a scene that did, but it got cut.

Shrox makes a fair point, but I have to agree here. The military of BSG maybe, survival training and all that, but there were far more civilians to cater for, that I would guess weren't even remotely up for, or to, that kind of future. Some for sure, but that is major league back-to-basics, in fairness alot like the pioneers of the American West.

I can see in one way, though, that Adama deliberately imposed what would be a very harsh future, in which many would not survive, but then given the disease they would carry with them, it was also perhaps a bit cavalier to unleash that on the locals.

A 'prime directive' kind of approach regarding the tech is true enough. The one and only warship was wrecked anyway, so serious defense against Cylon attack was at an end.

That said, for a spacefaring civilisation that still had alot of serviceable ships and crew, I still think it was a jarring finale, given as I say that Adama apparently imposed that on the remnants of his society.

Julian.

SBowie
01-18-2010, 11:51 AM
Were the alter egos of Gaius & Six, the ones that no one else could see...angels.That was a puzzler the whole way through, but Caprica kind of lays the basis for the explanation, I think.

Verlon
01-19-2010, 01:19 AM
That was a puzzler the whole way through, but Caprica kind of lays the basis for the explanation, I think.

If it does, I will never know. I have washed my hands of it. I'll rewatch the mini from time to time which was really good, but I do not trust the creators enough to watch Caprica because I ended up liking BSG less and less the longer it ran.

Puguglybonehead
01-19-2010, 11:03 PM
It jumped the shark when they made Dirk Benedict a girl.
There are still crueler ways to make Dirk Benedict a girl.

djlithium
01-19-2010, 11:47 PM
The show for me officially jumped the shark (twice) on episode 309 "The passage" where they killed off Kat. Ironic it is that the same woman who wrote that episode and got caprica going as a co-exec producer has now been sidelined on Caprica to "just write episodes" after the show missed one and a poor ratings performance. The show then again jumped the shark on episode 315 I think "The woman king". This felt like a spec piece/filler. What a joke of a story.

Episode 309 really pissed me off because it was a poor attempt to redo an episode from the original 1970s series. That episode from the original was so much better in terms of plot than the re-hashed one. It's like Jane (it is jane I think) just watched the 1970s series for the first time, locked onto that episode and wrote a spec script as a suck up maneuver to Ron and David. The script actually threw away the entire established story of season 1 and 2 with the humans surviving on occupied caprica after the nuke fest with anti radiation drugs (Helo included).
And there is a massive writing plot hole error in the story so big you could drive the fleet through it and it has to do with the "lead raptor per fleet ship" concept. It's simple, why do you need visual contact with a ship to call out co-ordinates to over the radio? DUMB!
Space ships don't drift in space unless they have momentum. You jump from one point to the next from one stationary position to the next and there is no additional or added momentum to cause the ships to drift in any way. Get your co-ordinates and jump again. WHAT A DISASTER plot that episode.
And they also killed off one of my favorite characters. KAT!

At least Luciana got on with Caprica, so that's good for her. Her Kat character on BSG could have been VERY cool, but they wrote her flat. Sad.

djlithium
01-19-2010, 11:53 PM
I agree - the plot got lost in itself even before the occupation as far as I am concerned. Season four did have its moments, but got too psychological. Dualla shooting herself, Dee a Cylon, Starbuck returns (discovering a dead version of herself)... it all got quite unfocused. And I did not really care about the ending in the end, because I felt out of touch with the story.

This became even more obvious since I started watching Babylon 5 once again a month ago: even though I watched the whole thing before, I was still on the edge of my seat during a LOT of episodes. The tension keeps building up till the climax in the middle of season 4 - and it just works. Sure, the effects/compositing are completely outdated and some of the filler episodes aren't exactly brilliant, but on overall the story/plot by itself keeps it exciting, even for this second run. The first time around I felt sad the series had ended - no such feeling with BSG. And yes, Firefly... sad, sad story.

I agree, but this is typical Ron Moorew writing (remember Carnival? I think he got fired off that show for writing it into a corner). Starts off really good then goes deep then so deep it drowns itself in the plot, never to resurface even if to shock you in seeing a dead body. It's boring! BOOORRING RON!
And very predictable - bunch of drunks (in space or on the frontier or on tour with a circus, or in an office) *****ing about who hates who and who is fscking who - throw in some action and that's a Ron Moore story line.

Puguglybonehead
01-19-2010, 11:57 PM
I've got to agree with one of the early posts. It sort of started to fall apart for me early in Season 3, after the Colonials were liberated from the occupation of New Caprica. From that point on, the series seemed to lack direction. It became much more soap-opera-like than it already was and many of the episodes turned into character-studies and left me feeling mildly irritated, almost the way "reality TV" does. (but not quite so acute an irritation)
Having major characters turn out to be Cylons was what I pretty much expected, but having Colonel Tigh among them just didn't quite work for me. I'm sure it was intended for 'irony', but it really just did not work. Still, I'd never doubted that Ellen would be one.
But, really, I felt a general change in the whole tone of the show with Season 3. The realism just wasn't there anymore. The attention to detail was lost. Hell, they were even starting to do cheezy TV sci-fi things like having the sound of explosions and engines in the vacuum of space (it had probably started earlier in the series, but I first noticed it in the third season.... disappointing)
I also agree with others, that I don't miss BSG nearly as much as I miss Firefly.

lwaddict
01-20-2010, 07:51 AM
I continued to watch, but the worst thing for me was using the work "frak".
I hated it!
...I thought it would have been immeasurably more believable without it.
I still liked the show in spite of that though.


Frak?
The word Frak made it unbelievable for you?
Are you serious?

Not the pools for reincarnation, the practically human minded robots, the looping evolution timeline, etc etc etc?

But the word Frak? That did it for ya?

People crack me up.

I agree, by the way, that it was overused and maybe they needed more BSG curse words to fill out the language, which was apparently English except for Frak right? LOL. But I still had to pick on ya. :D

shrox
01-20-2010, 08:08 AM
At least BSG is far better than "Two and a Half Men" or "Dharma and Greg"!