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View Full Version : Fun with IKBooster in 9.6



jasonwestmas
01-03-2010, 08:13 PM
After some lengthy investigation I have rediscovered some IKB techniques that I enjoyed in 8.5 but because of changes to LW's rigging tools I was somewhat forced to enjoy them differently in 9.6. The main goal here is to minimize setup time and to also provide quick and precise control over rotation of the skeletal bones.

In this rather large file is a video and a character setup that I think enhances workflow using IKB. Let me know what you all think, if you will.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/oow4zb

There is nothing amazingly complicated with this Rig, I can promise anyone can mimic this setup with any biped character with a little study. This is in order to take advantage of IKB's inner workings and "side-features" that are otherwise unavailable to lightwave users.

jasonwestmas
01-04-2010, 08:41 AM
Here are the LW files without the video for low band people who don't want to wait to download 190 mb. ;)

Note: I fixed gimbal lock issue in the neck in this version.

shrox
01-04-2010, 08:56 AM
I downloaded it last night and I am going to check it out today.

jasonwestmas
01-04-2010, 09:15 AM
Thanks!

Larry_g1s
01-04-2010, 12:53 PM
Hey Jason, thanks for the demonstration.

jasonwestmas
01-04-2010, 12:57 PM
Sure Larry. :)

Larry_g1s
01-04-2010, 01:00 PM
I like the method in RebelHills rigging training a bit more, just more of what I'm used to. But I really enjoy stuff like this, as well as what L. Shultz has shown, with IKB because it brings more to the arsenal when addressing these types of things.

Castius
01-04-2010, 02:25 PM
http://camstudio.org/
Check out the CamStudioCodec1.4 codec. This may help bring down the file size.

Castius
01-04-2010, 02:38 PM
Thats a very nice example of how to use IK Booster. Thanks for sharing!!

SplineGod
01-04-2010, 02:44 PM
Nice one Jason. :)

geo_n
01-13-2010, 08:14 AM
That's a very cool rig. I watched the video twice :). I thought people said ikboost can't have the foot planted. Seems this one is planted. I think this is a quick way to do stable character rigs. Unfortunately I haven't seen anyone do a tutorial on rigging methology with ikb. The how and why to do it this way in ikb.

ericsmith
01-13-2010, 09:56 AM
The rig uses standard full-time IK on both the legs and arms, that's why you can plant the foot (over time). IKB is added on top of that as a way of moving the goals around.

Eric

jasonwestmas
01-13-2010, 10:02 AM
That's a very cool rig. I watched the video twice :). I thought people said ikboost can't have the foot planted. Seems this one is planted. I think this is a quick way to do stable character rigs. Unfortunately I haven't seen anyone do a tutorial on rigging methology with ikb. The how and why to do it this way in ikb.

Well, IKB is an IK system that is similar to the IK used for the FiberFX strand modeler. Meaning that when you move one of the handles the other 'joints' rotate and move in relation to the handle. In this rig that I setup I put restrictions on that IKB influence so that the model moves in a predictable way using 'IKStops' and Locking rotational handles for each of the bones.

The important thing to realize is that a setup like this does not require IKB in order to function. IKB is there in the rig to 'help' manipulate the rig (it is convenient when keying the bones and manipulators too) without doing a lot of setup, that's the only reason to use it, because it saves time and doesn't hinder accuracy in the rotation of the bones. So in other words IKB in and of itself (Without LW's IK to assist) doesn't provide all methods of control in respect to pinning the translation and rotation of a bone. You can 'Fix' IKB controller handles but that is not a means to completely lock down a bone. If it did lock the bone you would get a rig much more similar to something in AD Motion Builder. Sadly this isn't how IKB works and so locking a hand and foot down completely while the rest of the bones move and rotate is not done easily with IKB without using it on top of LW's IK system.

I learned how to do this kind of setup from Splinegod's video tutorials on LW8.5 five years ago. However, in the 9.x series I could not get IKB to work the way I needed it to till I started to try this setup in 9.6. The latest, greatest IK in 9.6 does not react to nulls the same way it did in LW8.5 so I had to make quite a few adjustments. I used the reverse heel setup similar to what William Vaughn uses here:

ftp://ftp.newtek.com/multimedia/movies/w3dw/FootRig.mov

As I found this leg setup works pretty good with the IKB positioning and rotational handles but I have to apply IKB to the LW nulls in order to move the bones with the round IKB 'Rotational Handles' without moving the entire skeleton. The FK modes I found to be very handy as well to provide quick and easy ways to rotate the knees and foot pivots.

RebelHill
01-13-2010, 10:27 AM
I very much like this idea and way of adding things together... As most know Im no fan of IKB, at least not as a rigging and setup tool... but it is, and always has been very useful as a quick, and fairly robust animation system... the ability to copy, save and load poses and motions the way it does is a great thing to have, not available elsewhere in LW... so using a standard LW rig like this, and then using IKB to control the goals, and items that would normally be handled with FK definately gives you even more than either LW or IKB could manage by themselves.

Nice one Jason.

geo_n
01-13-2010, 10:56 PM
Adding IKB on top and making it easier to contol. Good complement for standard IK. And I guess the advantage of this is that the keys are baked to the bones and easier to export the motion too?
OT. rebelhill just got your tut this week and finished downloading. 1.3gig for a zip file and the other one 900mb! Took me 4 tries to get it. Lol! Why not split the zip files. hehe. Anyway excited what I willl learn. :)

Castius
01-14-2010, 12:15 AM
IKBsooter doesn't just manage keyframes on bones. It will handle keyframes on any item under it's control.
So you will still need to bake IK in order to export animation.

probiner
01-14-2010, 03:55 AM
wow nice example of IKB usage. When i tryed to use it it was quite messy, but here it looks very clean.
I have some doubts concerning consistency with the legs, but well, i'm still trying to figure out the whole thing so... =)

Cheers

clintonman
01-14-2010, 08:55 AM
Thanks for the video.:thumbsup: Very useful information in there.

Castius
01-14-2010, 09:17 AM
I'd use a pole vector in the legs like the arms. This will make it more stable in more poses.

jasonwestmas
01-14-2010, 10:09 AM
I'd use a pole vector in the legs like the arms. This will make it more stable in more poses.

Ok I'll do a comparison this week to see what you mean. Glad you guys got some goodness out of this.

Castius
01-15-2010, 07:14 AM
I don't think you always need it. So for your own work i see no reason to change what your doing. But if you don't know what the animation will be. It's safer to have it. That way the animator won't run into poses that requirer a lot of counter animating. I think counter animating is an animator worst fear.

If you want to make it easier for the animator by still using rotation you can use a setup like this.
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showpost.php?p=809891&postcount=51

probiner
01-15-2010, 07:23 AM
I don't think you always need it. So for your own work i see no reason to change what your doing. But if you don't know what the animation will be. It's safer to have it. That way the animator won't run into poses that requirer a lot of counter animating. I think counter animating is an animator worst fear.

If you want to make it easier for the animator by still using rotation you can use a setup like this.
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showpost.php?p=809891&postcount=51

When i click in the link it shows:

probiner, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

Some erikals links also say the same. Why is that, is just a post, right :foreheads ?
Whats is the thread name and starter, maybe i can see it with search, and i know its post 51 so...

Cheers

Castius
01-15-2010, 10:24 AM
This is not an ideal rig. It was something i wanted to show as an example of setting up a rotation based pole vector and also have IK FK blending. It was from a discussion on the open beta forum. I'll try to quote a few of the posts from the thread. Sorry if it be a bit confusing being ripped out a thread.


You could set up a second Target/Pole that points from the shoulder to the IK goal. For the elbow pole to ride on. The pole vector for this part of the rig would be world up vector.

To setup that up you would parent a null to the clavicle in the same place as the shoulder. Create another null and position constraint (Same as item World) to the new shoulder null. Them make an offset and move it strait up. This offset will be your pole vector. Create your target/pole null and parent it to your new shoulder null. It should target the IK Goal and pole to your world up shoulder null. Then parent your elbow pole to that. This will maintain your range of motion by always be points at the your IK goal.

But now your pole will have a different set of poses that will generate counter animate situations. The benefit to this is that you can pose this extra arm pole for whole sets of ranges. If the character is always having his hands above his head you can move the pole to a place that cause minimal extra motion. If the arms are always by his side. Move the pole to fit that range.

It would be extra stuff on your rig but it would allow you to keep what you like right now with the least chance of causing counter animated poses.


Here try this one out. The key to this is to have good clean keyframes on certain items before you switch to FK.

Select this items and keyframe rotation before you blend to FK.
Chain_Base_Follow
Chain_A
Chain_B
Shoulder_Follow_Pole

The reason for this is to prevent gimble lock on the same as item. while blending.

I
t's basickly a hack. I want to blend the Targeting/pole with the IK/FK blend. If you select "Shoulder_Follow_Null" and click on the envelope. You will see I have a channel follow modifier attached. There is no other way to automate this.

Newtek was unable to add an envelope for target and Pole for 9.x. But there were nice enough to properly add "Same as item".

It means there are a few more objects in the rig. But it works well.
You can use this method for any items motion you want to blend in a rig.



PS. If I had the rig set up like this i would probable create a small macros to key the items i need to switch from IK to FK. As well as on to go from Fk to IK.

erikals
01-17-2010, 11:17 PM
thank you, will have a look at what's new.

here's a new compressed version for temporary upload, using Xvid, 85MB.
http://www.erikalstad.com/backup/IKBoosterXvid.avi

jasonwestmas
01-18-2010, 09:50 AM
Thanks erikals. :)

erikals
01-18-2010, 12:34 PM
you should make a youtube account btw,... ;)

h2oStudios
01-18-2010, 01:52 PM
@ Jasonwestmas - Took a look at your vid :thumbsup:. Pretty cool how you referenced the controls to IKB. Gotta try this out; might prove to be quite useful. Good stuff, man.

jasonwestmas
01-18-2010, 04:42 PM
@ Jasonwestmas - Took a look at your vid :thumbsup:. Pretty cool how you referenced the controls to IKB. Gotta try this out; might prove to be quite useful. Good stuff, man.

Glad you liked it.

I put it up on my vimeo Account here for anyone else, thanks to erikals for downsizing it for me.:

http://vimeo.com/8824400

I'm going to be setting up some human characters in the near future using Lightwave I think. I'll be sure to share what I do with those rigs. The characters will be a little more complicated so things should get interesting in the rigging and skinning.

h2oStudios
01-18-2010, 04:55 PM
Tried using joints referenced to control bones? Some pretty good deforms with that, plus distributed twists. Lookin forward to seeing what ya come up with. :thumbsup:

jasonwestmas
01-18-2010, 06:30 PM
Joints are nice if I need them but I'm not sure if I'll need them for what I'm doing. I'm not sure if IKB would work with Joints either, never gave it a good try but I remember not getting the expected results.

h2oStudios
01-18-2010, 09:27 PM
Well if you have the joints acting as defromers (not being user manipulated) and referenced to the "standard" bone structure that IKB is referenced to; as you have in the original video. It should work exactly the same except now you would have joints functioning as deforms (joints have a little more going on in terms of deformation options). Just wanted to throw that in since you mentioned complexity in rigging & skinning the new examples in a previous post

Castius
01-19-2010, 01:35 AM
Joints work just the same with IK Booster as bones. No worries there.

Oh and i wanted to mention that i use handles for transforming controls. These handles can make it easier to keep these items flat on the ground. As well as still move them vertical. You can even rotate the item based on the parent item pivot. This object must be are rotation item. This can be done by selecting right above the vertical handle.

Sorry not audio but i hope the video helps.

h2oStudios
01-19-2010, 11:35 AM
Castius, what codec did you compress this vid with? Can't seem to open it, not even with Mplayer (which pretty much opens anything).

jasonwestmas
01-19-2010, 11:40 AM
VLC opens the video h2o.

Ah yes, the handles can be handy in some instances, definitely.

h2oStudios
01-19-2010, 11:54 AM
Thanks JP ;). One question - I'm trying something similar to what you've done to see how this IKB/LW referencing can benefit me. I've set up an IK limb with a Null control and applied IKB to it. Works great in translation!, (Mode: Rotate) but my rotation channels seem to be locked, and next to the h,p,b values there are "exp" next to them. Any reason why this is happening?

Thanks

h2oStudios
01-19-2010, 12:15 PM
Ah, I figured it out! IKB Won't allow SAI (Rotation) motion inheritence, even if the percentage is set to 0%. I think... This would pose a problem with FK/IK autosnap blending with my setup, gonna try a work around. But if you guys know something I don't in regards to that, please let me know. This wouldbe pretty cool to play with. :thumbsup:

Castius
01-19-2010, 01:57 PM
Sorry i should have mentioned i used the cam studio codec.
http://camstudio.org/
http://camstudio.org/CamStudioCodec14.zip
http://camstudio.org/CamStudioCodec14.exe

Ya a big problem with IKB. This is something IKB was never designed to do. And you need to make workarounds to manage it's inability to edit items not controlled by keyframes only.

RebelHill
01-19-2010, 02:02 PM
Ah, I figured it out! IKB Won't allow SAI (Rotation) motion inheritence, even if the percentage is set to 0%. I think... This would pose a problem with FK/IK autosnap blending with my setup, gonna try a work around. But if you guys know something I don't in regards to that, please let me know. This wouldbe pretty cool to play with. :thumbsup:

You could setup yet another null, which is controlled by ikb... and have the actual IK null blend to, or be a child of, that null... that may let u do it. Basically, just adding anither extra layer of items for the IKB to work with.

h2oStudios
01-19-2010, 03:28 PM
You could setup yet another null, which is controlled by ikb... and have the actual IK null blend to, or be a child of, that null... that may let u do it. Basically, just adding anither extra layer of items for the IKB to work with.

Gotcha. I'm gonna try this out and see what's good.

jasonwestmas
01-24-2010, 08:47 PM
Another interesting tid-bit is key framing all the trans and rotate controllers in the leg and foot at once without using autokey. I know that I cannot use selection-sets to group bones and nulls together. This is because I can't select a null and a bone simultaneously. So in order to key frame the entire leg I must apply nulls to all bones that will be manipulated.

Is there a plugin or something that can allow me to select both bones and null items simultaneously? I mean, what if I wanted to key frame all controllers/bones together all on a single frame? I don't want to have to select two separate groups (Nulls verses Bones) but I guess it could be worse ;)

jasonwestmas
01-25-2010, 09:16 AM
Ok, I found a good solution for keyframing.
Not only do we have to setup a character so it moves easily, but we have to make key-framing the controllers easy too. Using auto-key all the time isn't the best idea of course.

http://vimeo.com/8969306

jasonwestmas
01-25-2010, 09:31 AM
Here is the scene file.

jasonwestmas
04-03-2010, 03:58 PM
Had a request to go through creating this setup. Here's a basic video on setting up a reverse foot and leg. It's a little more in detailed than the older LW videos I hope.

http://vimeo.com/10656688

The lightwave files can be found in the above posts.^

geo_n
04-03-2010, 08:50 PM
Wow thanks. Definitely curious with that ikb and standard ik footrig workflow.

bethel
04-05-2010, 03:27 PM
After some lengthy investigation I have rediscovered some IKB techniques that I enjoyed in 8.5 but because of changes to LW's rigging tools I was somewhat forced to enjoy them differently in 9.6. The main goal here is to minimize setup time and to also provide quick and precise control over rotation of the skeletal bones.

In this rather large file is a video and a character setup that I think enhances workflow using IKB. Let me know what you all think, if you will.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/oow4zb

There is nothing amazingly complicated with this Rig, I can promise anyone can mimic this setup with any biped character with a little study. This is in order to take advantage of IKB's inner workings and "side-features" that are otherwise unavailable to lightwave users.

Can you please re-post the download link? When I went there, I was only able to download the Free flv player for PC. I use a MAC and already have the player. Even after I download the player, there's no link to download the video. Thanks

Jim M
04-05-2010, 04:26 PM
Hasnt everyone been using IKB like this forever? (not wanting to piss on your bonfire)

jasonwestmas
04-05-2010, 04:35 PM
Actually no, I haven't seen this done recently. This thread is actually based on what Splinegod and William Vaughn did in the past but I had to add some things. But the main point of this was to point out some things that are different in 9.6 regarding IKB. I have found that Lightwave's Motion Panel IK and nulls react differently now to IKB.

jasonwestmas
04-05-2010, 04:42 PM
Can you please re-post the download link? When I went there, I was only able to download the Free flv player for PC. I use a MAC and already have the player. Even after I download the player, there's no link to download the video. Thanks

Oh, sorry about that:

I attached the lightwave files to this post.

All the videos I did are on my vimeo page.

http://vimeo.com/

bethel
04-06-2010, 06:38 AM
Oh, sorry about that:

I attached the lightwave files to this post.

All the videos I did are on my vimeo page.

http://vimeo.com/

Thank you. I've downloaded the objects and scene files, but would like to take a look at your videos. I teach Lightwave at a high school. Can you please provide a link to the videos? I went to vimeo.com and searched for your name, but couldn't find the videos. Thank you.

bethel
04-06-2010, 06:42 AM
Never mind, I found it. Thank you again for the videos and files :)

jasonwestmas
04-06-2010, 07:36 AM
You're welcome

Pfft, silly me

http://vimeo.com/user1384822/videos

geothefaust
04-06-2010, 11:29 AM
Thanks for sharing! It's always neat to see IKB at work.

jasonwestmas
04-06-2010, 02:02 PM
Sure thing Javis :)

Here's a video on setting up the spine with IKBooster Link:

http://vimeo.com/10727245