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View Full Version : Honest, thorough and hysterical review of Phantom Menace



toby
12-17-2009, 01:11 AM
You though it was bad? You don't know the half of it -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI&feature=related

cresshead
12-17-2009, 07:48 AM
part 2 was also good...

jameswillmott
12-17-2009, 08:38 AM
Spot on...

Shnoze Shmon
12-17-2009, 09:09 AM
I enjoyed the movie.

I bought the DVD. And enjoyed it again.

I've enjoyed watching it a few times since.

That makes it a good movie in my book.

There are plenty of popular movies I wouldn't give the time of day to.

Those are not good movies.

I like it = Good movie
I don't like it = bad movie

No reason to complicate things.

Matt
12-17-2009, 12:47 PM
LOL, great review.

Cageman
12-17-2009, 12:53 PM
I actually enjoy the new Star Wars movies. While they aren't as good as the first three, I can easily throw one of them into the DVD and sit down and watch.

:)

toby
12-17-2009, 02:19 PM
part 2 was also good...
I watched all 7 - it's all funny as hell!

Phantom menace has it's fun parts, but fast-forwarding past any jar-jar or other muppets or annikin scenes is the only way to keep my lunch down. Shoulda been called "The Phantom Annoyance"

Nangleator
12-17-2009, 02:51 PM
I was pretty happy with the sword fight at the end, though the conclusion didn't make a lot of sense. (How did Maul become a dumbfounded yokel when confronted with evidence of the Force?)

I also appreciated the three-pronged nature of the fights at the conclusion. Exciting!

The music was good, too.

Intuition
12-17-2009, 08:15 PM
HAHA, thanks for posting. That was so cathartic for my inner child.

RudySchneider
12-17-2009, 08:34 PM
Interesting observations regarding the protagonist scheme. However, one thing he's completely forgotten in his critique is the "newness" factor. That is, a primary reason one remembers more about the original movie is that it was so different from anything else that had come before it. The same for Matrix, or for the original Day The Earth Stood Still (one of my all-time favorites as a kid!).

It's akin to your first kiss, or the first time you made love, or the first time you had an absolutely terrific meal at a new restaurant. Everything that follows is always compared to that first time, and it's not often that the "newness" of the experience measures up later.

danielkaiser
12-17-2009, 09:49 PM
Do you know why Lukas didn't make ep. 1 first?
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Because it sucked.

calilifestyle
12-17-2009, 10:01 PM
well it's his movie he can do what he likes.

jameswillmott
12-17-2009, 10:06 PM
well it's his movie he can do what he likes.

That's the problem, his yesmen didn't stop him and point out what a mess he was making, so he DID do what he liked...

calilifestyle
12-17-2009, 10:11 PM
well that's what directors do . they do what they want in the end. since he was the ex producer then you get what you want.

jameswillmott
12-17-2009, 10:18 PM
...others liked it enough to go see it more than once.

Good for them!

jameswillmott
12-17-2009, 10:43 PM
AND.... for Lucas. $924,317,558

Too many think it's "yes men." But he still managed to make money - as did the next two films albeit slightly less. He made back LOTS more than it cost to make. So you CAN say he may have had too many "yes men" around him, but it didn't really matter in the end. :)

:)

( Lucas didn't rake in 900 million personally surely? :) )

It depends greatly on your point of view, whether making money or a good story with strong characters makes for a 'good' film. For me, Phantom Menace was like watching a tech demo, visually awesome but ultimately lifeless.

I loved it when I first watched it at the theatre, I remember that clearly.

Then I got the DVD months later, watched it again and realised it was most probably the excitement of watching a Star Wars film again that made it so enjoyable at the movies, but by the time I rewatched it, the gloss had worn off and I saw it for what it was.

Some really dumb decisions, like reducing the mystical Force to something scientific ( midichlorians anyone ), Darth Vadar is C3PO's father, which makes Luke and Threepio brothers? Jar Jar Binks... there's plenty more but no sense cloggin up the forum with them.

calilifestyle
12-17-2009, 10:47 PM
now is safe to say most you in here watched phantom menace right. Knowing that it was a piece of crap.. did you go and see 2 and 3.

or left it to the dvd.

toby
12-17-2009, 10:52 PM
now is safe to say most you in here watched phantom menace right. Knowing that it was a piece of crap.. did you go and see 2 and 3.

or left it to the dvd.
Waited for a friend to rent or buy the dvd both times. 3 is by far the worst.

jameswillmott
12-17-2009, 10:55 PM
Waited for a friend to rent or buy the dvd both times. 3 is by far the worst.

Interesting, I thought it was the strongest of the prequels...

calilifestyle
12-17-2009, 11:04 PM
oh btw yeah i really didn't didn't like any of the new ones. I truly felt like i was being treated like an idiot. like i had no common sense. i won lie i did watch all them at the movie theater like 2 weeks after it came out. But this guy truly forgot what movie he was working on.

jameswillmott
12-17-2009, 11:09 PM
I happend to like the connection between 3PO and Vader; the "reduction" of the Force to science wasn't the best IMO but then again, it wasn't MY story to tell. I look at films as the story told by the director. It's THEIR story, not mine. Did I like it enough to enjoy the film or not. For this one, I did like it enough and enjoyed it. So were they bad decisions? For you, obviously. For many others, obviously not.

Yes, ultimately it's down to the viewers, did they enjoy it or not, yes or no, personal preference, ( even though there are standards or good storytelling and character development that any fiction can be held against... )



Remember... this is show BUSINESS. For every non-thinking blockbuster there are a dozen "thinking" movies. We need these blockbusters just like we need cerebral films. It's good to punctuate smart films with big, fun films.

It's Star Wars, it doesn't need to be a 'thinking' movie, that's not what I'm talking about. Sorry if I suggested that, I didn't mean to.

I mean I feel all films need thought put INTO them, not that the audience needs to think while they watch them. Does that make sense?

I enjoy 'blockbusters' and I enjoy films that make me go 'hmmm' but some thought needs to go into both, in my opinion, Phantom Menace either didn't have enough thought put into it, or Lucas wouldn't be questioned by any of his colleagues when he made dubious or vague decisions, which resulted, in my opinion, in a weak and contrived film.

That obviously didn't prevent a great many people choosing to watch or enjoy it.

jameswillmott
12-17-2009, 11:12 PM
I certainly hope that "I" can make a film that sucks as much as any of these three. Then I can laugh at everyone who told me that I had yes men all around me. :thumbsup:

Ah, but you hadn't made Star Wars 4,5, and 6 previously, ( and been backed up by 25(?) years of merchandising ) had you? :)



How would 1,2, and 3 have done at the box office if they were the first Star Wars films Lucas had made?

Obviously we can't know, but I think it's worth considering.

toby
12-17-2009, 11:33 PM
And yet that made over $800 million as well. Apparently George made a few good decisions - regardless if people here think it was not so good. I certainly hope that "I" can make a film that sucks as much as any of these three. Then I can laugh at everyone who told me that I had yes men all around me. :thumbsup:
For you to make that much money on a film like that, you'd have to make a great one beforehand and build up a huge audience, like he did.

But we're discussing how good it was, not how much money it made.

McDonald's makes a crapload of money too, it has little to do with how good the food is.

Oedo 808
12-18-2009, 12:00 AM
The Star Wars prequels and The Sun newspaper.

Two great examples of why democracy sucks arse. ;)

jameswillmott
12-18-2009, 12:04 AM
...people show us how good THEY think it is by purchasing tickets.


Nice if it were true, people (general population) tend to buy what they're told to buy, it's one of the essences of capitalism... but I digress...

I've said my bit, you have too, I'm leaving it there.



And the winner is... the money-makers. :thumbsup:


Mate, there I am in complete agreement with you! :thumbsup:

toby
12-18-2009, 12:43 AM
Of course. But if it REALLY sucked and was horrible, I sincerely doubt many would have gone back and seen it over and over again. And the point is - and we've already seen it in JUST this thread - that opinions about what is good and bad vary greatly.

Maybe, maybe not. As James pointed out, it's something that we will never know. People keep pointing out how bad Bays films are, yet look at the box office of Transformers. I haven't seen either film, but they are successful nonetheless. Again, I hope I can be blessed with such "crappy films." :)

How good it was and how much money it made? Much of that is intertwined. As I said above, "if it REALLY sucked and was horrible, I sincerely doubt many would have gone back and seen it over and over again. And the point is - and we've already seen it in JUST this thread - that opinions about what is good and bad vary greatly."

And the same with MacDonalds - some people REALLY like it and others don't. Those who don't stay away and those who do buy. AND... apparently allot of people like it ENOUGH to keep on buying.

You can argue all you want to, but the fact remains, movie-making is a business and regardless of how good YOU think the film is, people show us how good THEY think it is by purchasing tickets. And the winner is... the money-makers. :thumbsup:
2001: A Space Odyssey bombed at the box office. So did some other film greats. I guess they're really bad movies?

What the reviewer is talking about is filmmaking/storytelling, and how many times Lucas failed in Ep.1 where he didn't originally. That has nothing to do with money.

toby
12-18-2009, 12:55 AM
But what you should really know Megaladon is that you don't need a box office figure to validate your opinion of anything, because there's nothing here to invalidate it, there's no disrespect for anyone who likes Ep.1.

Deadlyforce
12-18-2009, 05:19 AM
Star Wars prequels are such an heated debate...I'll add my 2 cents about the hows and whys of the prequels' commercial success. To me it's very simple :

The waiting was huge before a new Star Wars came out. So, everybody went out to the theaters to make an opinion for themselves about The Phantom Menace, or just out of simple curiosity. Simple as that, everybody wanted to know.

The people then divided in 2 groups. Those who hated it, like myself and those who loved it, often telling the first group that they had lost their "child's soul".

But I hear, "George Lucas did well, because a massive amount of people watched the second prequel". Yes, because between the 2 movies (false) promises were made. More action, darker (lol), no more mistakes like in Phantom Menace. So, people wanted to know if that was true (secretely hoping that it was).

And for the 3rd prequel it was more or less the same. "Guys you will see, that one is about the creation of Vader !! and his big return, and Anakin going down the wrong path"...."It's darker" they said again. Who would want to miss that? People wanted to check if that was true once again.

My opinion is that of course we were lied to, all along the way, but obviously people still enjoy those movies. I disagree with them but I'm ok with that :)
As a conclusion I'd say that the movies were bad but the promotion was masterful.

Nemoid
12-18-2009, 08:50 AM
Correct point.

In first trilogy Lucas depended heavily from other artists. I guess he also asked for some help with the script of original Star Wars. Visually he depended very much from Mc Quarrie and other cool artists of ILM.
in Empire strikes back, mainly story was written with great help of Lawrence kasdan, and movie was directed by Kershner
Similar things for Return of he Jedi.

So, I think Lucas has some interesting ideas, is a great organizer, and also has a merit: he understood the potential of sfx and afterwards of CG imagery for movies, but's not a great director and writer.

in 2nd trilogy he happened to have all the power in his own hands... also unfortunately he wrote and directed all the 3 movies... after not directing for nearly 20 years.
And this is why the whole trilogy quite sucks, except for some small parts.

BigHache
12-18-2009, 11:27 AM
I watched all 7 parts of that review, I was crying. :thumbsup:

"Phantom Menace" was the next biggest theatrical disappointment in my life since "Mortal Kombat 2: Annihilation". I was ready to walk out on both films after 5 minutes. Lucas made a box office success, that's fine, I'm happy for him. The DVD will not be in my collection, which is fine too.

dmack
12-19-2009, 02:48 PM
I've also picked up on the atmosphere on the 'behind the scenes' films feeling deeply uneasy. It feels like there are a lot of people treading on eggshells...and that has to be bad for the end result....I mean does anyone think that the whole midichlorian thing was a good idea?!?!?!?! I'd be surprised to hear a single person say that they thought that reducing 'the force' down to a biologically measurable and accurately detectable thing was good. If it had been a truly collaborative thing..there is no way that would have been done!

erikals
12-19-2009, 08:52 PM
good review. (only saw part 1-2, but still)

Teruchan
12-20-2009, 08:11 AM
That's the problem, his yesmen didn't stop him and point out what a mess he was making, so he DID do what he liked...

And I am so glad he did.

I'll mention a couple of examples as far as box office success vs. being a good or bad film. First I will say this. If a film is a huge success, and continues to be so thorugh DVD, TV runs and so on, one can assume that SOMEONE likes it. I'll use Pokemon as an example. I can't stand Pokemon personally. I will not for one second, though, say "it sucks" or it is bad. Why? Because as a billion dollar a year franchise going for so many years, I can bet that someone loves it. In fact, I had friends with kids who loved it to death. So I just have to say, it is not for me.

As far as hype and people being told what to buy. I will mention the Hulk. The first one, by Ang Lee. $100+ million at the box office in it's opening weekend, then it fizzled and died in like a week. That's because a large number of people thought it was bad, said it was bad, and told everyone it was bad. Star Wars, on the other hand, kept going and going and going.

For my second case I'll mention the Oprah Winfrey movie Beloved. Hyped beyond belief. People were told to watch it for months on end before it came out. She probably used half of her billions to hype it. Still, I think it sold like 2 tickets at the box office. No one went to go see it. Why is that? Funny thing is, when I finally saw it years later, probably on a DVD rental, I thought it was great! I don't know anyone who has actually seen it who doesn't like it. But who was it made for?

I think the new Star Wars movies were a huge success because they were made for particular group of people (not the fans of the original trilogy) and that group loved it. I should also note that I have friends with kids who love the new Star Wars but can't stand to watch the originals, even after they are updated to look like the new ones. I couldn't get my girlfriend, also too young for the originals, to watch past episode 3 either. We started 4 and she was bored and done with it. We still haven't watched 5 and 6. They are different movies for different generations.

erikals
12-20-2009, 09:12 AM
SW IV V VI had that dirty look, guys think that's fine, girls and kids don't
SW I II III had that clean harmonic look, girls and kids think that's great

...as for the story, don't understand how ppl can like SW I II III

Teruchan
12-30-2009, 10:52 AM
:)

( Lucas didn't rake in 900 million personally surely? :) )



Actually he raked in a lot more. Just not from the box office (which he still got 90% and Fox only got 10%, almost the exact opposite of what any other director would get). He got $500 million from the KFC, Taco Bell, Pizza hut deal alone. Then there's toys, video games, lunch boxes and on and on...

Nemoid
12-31-2009, 09:32 AM
actually, the look of new trilogy is good.
sfx are well done, and also most of char design/concept art is well done.
But, especially I and II are bad taken as a movie from the point of storytelling.
Old trilogy has a different look but has a nice storytelling.
I think that, when they'll grow a bit, children which liked new trilogy, will appreciate the IV, V and VI better.
Lucas point btw, is to see all the 6 movies as a whole story, which isn't a bad idea, actually.

Andyjaggy
12-31-2009, 01:43 PM
I tried to watch that review but the guys voice was so freaking annoying I didn't last more then a couple of minutes.

shrox
12-31-2009, 02:18 PM
My favorite version of Star Wars is as a play done for kids in an apocalyptic future that have never seen video. It was in the movie "Reign of Fire"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCBA1wii70o

hrgiger
12-31-2009, 02:42 PM
That was the stupidest and most brilliant review of Episode 1.

After Episode 1 came out, a local paper here in Ohio had this to say. "Back when George Lucas made Star Wars, he really had his fingers on the pulse of American Culture. Now he just has his thumb up his butt."

danielkaiser
12-31-2009, 09:18 PM
Saw this at a drive in theater with Empire and some horrible Lee Majors movie about Eric the Red (thankfully the LSD had kicked in about 10min into the Majors flick)

Hardware Wars (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9059800655908790019#)

toby
01-01-2010, 05:58 AM
Saw this at a drive in theater with Empire and some horrible Lee Majors movie about Eric the Red (thankfully the LSD had kicked in about 10min into the Majors flick)

Hardware Wars (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9059800655908790019#)
blast from the past!

BigHache
01-01-2010, 09:37 AM
blast from the past!

LOL awesome! Forgot about that silly thing. I love the brown cookie monster.

toby
01-10-2010, 12:57 AM
I know you've all had this same question at some point.

And the answer is YES.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkxQ6HYDwIA

CANNOT wait

Cageman
01-10-2010, 05:10 AM
One thing, in particular, that I gather from all these posts and youtube videos is how much energy people put into negativity. I'm just thinking... what if all those people would put their energy into something worthwhile instead of making all these piles of crap... really.

:)

erikals
01-10-2010, 10:05 AM
negativity?
nah, it's just fun :)

toby
01-10-2010, 02:45 PM
One thing, in particular, that I gather from all these posts and youtube videos is how much energy people put into negativity. I'm just thinking... what if all those people would put their energy into something worthwhile instead of making all these piles of crap... really.
"piles of crap"... now that is negative!

You guys shouldn't be so defensive about Ep.1-3, nor try to invalidate our opinions so much, as if to dislike Star Wars instantly proves that you're wrong. There are people who hate my favorite movies, and I may ask why, but I know we all have our reasons and we can't possibly have the same opinions about everything. Vive la difference.

Nangleator
01-10-2010, 02:51 PM
This guy's rather precise criticism improves us all.

Cageman
01-11-2010, 12:41 AM
"piles of crap"... now that is negative!

Aye... it is! :D

If these comments and videos had been released... 3-4 years ago, I would have found them refreshing and fun, but its really just the same old same old.

:)

BeeVee
01-11-2010, 02:14 PM
If you want originality from YouTube, this is very cool: http://thru-you.com/

B

BeeVee
01-11-2010, 02:14 PM
If you want originality from YouTube, this is very cool: http://thru-you.com/

B

Cageman
01-11-2010, 02:35 PM
If you want originality from YouTube, this is very cool: http://thru-you.com/

B

OMG! That is AMAZING!

04. Babylon Band is my fav so far... Alot of energy in that one. :)

Talk about creativity! Damn! :)

erikals
01-11-2010, 03:14 PM
loved it!

stored! :)

toby
01-24-2010, 05:35 PM
back on topic...
http://www.todaysbigthing.com/2010/01/21

some of my most hated moments are in here too! But they left out T2 : "I will nevuh be able to cry"

erikals
02-06-2010, 04:29 AM
http://www.wired.com/underwire/2010/02/people-vs-george-lucas/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wired%2Findex+%28Wired%3A+Ind ex+3+%28Top+Stories+2%29%29

Cageman
02-06-2010, 04:34 AM
Haha!

StarWars is just a movie!! There... I said it!!! :D

erikals
02-06-2010, 04:38 AM
now you're walking on dangerous ground Mister!!... http://erikalstad.com/backup/anims.php_files/wink.gif

http://erikalstad.com/backup/anims.php_files/yoda.gif