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radams
12-05-2009, 11:11 PM
Hi all,

Well, first thank you Andrew and the dev team for creating such amazing technologies and implementation as the TCXD series.

I know that this hasn't shipped yet...and that there are functions and features still being worked out..

From the demo's I've seen...there comes up a few things that I would like to see in a future revision/update. (these suggestions are in addition to the needs that others have stated...such as more inputs etc...)

1) Additional GPU support - to allow additional UI monitor configurations.
and allow UI monitors and program projector feeds.

Something that I applaud is the ability to use a secondary monitor output for UI - for the sources, preview program etc...allowing one monitor just for controls...the other for displayed sources...this is great!!!

But for a better control rm kind of environment...it would be nice to be able to feed a seperate monitor full with the program...or a split with preview/program...with another monitor with all the sources, etc...or sources/preview...thus the need to have not just 2 outputs...but 3 to 4...along with that if I need to feed some projectors, etc. I need to have additional outputs for those...

At this time...it is either or...vs flexible and configurable...

Granted this is more for the Multi-person crew...vs a one man show.

2) This also then brings up another workflow UI control issue..
with the controls for the sources...a RMB on the source display.
Is fine for a one man show...but when dealing with a director/producer/TD etc. the UI comes ontop of that source..and can hide other sources...during a LIVE production that can be in the way for the director to see what the action is, while the TD is trying to setup something.

It would be helpful to be able to have controls for the sources also in the main UI vs just on the source display.

3) It would be nice to have at least two Giga Ethernet channels...so one can be used for dedicated webcasting...the other to connect up iVGA/network/etc. Or two allow for two iVGA sources directly, etc.

4) There is a large need to be able to have a macro/user definable utilities.
Like those that NT had through VTedit...Why?

Well, even thou you do have a preset function...there also needs to be some kind of emem like function...to allow quick and easy setups...something that you can put into a list-ddr etc...so things can be automatically triggered, etc.

What this can do:

a) with the limited number of virtual sources to 5 ....this would extend that to be user definable...so with a click could add one or more setups/banks.

b) with the limited number of input sources...this would allow quick switches of sources from the SDI/Component Ins...to allow more than three sources...thus 3-6 possible sources...though only three at a time could be seen on the UI...it would be like setting up a router per input source.

c) If you setup this up like VTED had...then you can create a timing and flow kind of processing...thus making it easy for anyone to use and setup.
(or give it some kind of nodal/flow interface)...I prefer the ease that VTedit had. SE could be used to do the same thing.

d) this would also allow for more automation of shows...and more powerful flexibility for TD's etc.

What I mean for automation.... this is actually flexible.
here is one option...instead of thinking of the DDR as just a media playback.

think of it as an event sequence...(taking the Technical switching out of things)...for the non pro or occasional user.

This would allow a pre-setup show format to be followed.

So a sequence in the starts with an open, that goes to camera X, fades music and brings up mics adds animated CG etc......then next sequence switches to a different camera with FXs etc...now this can also be timed to go from one event to another...think of this and a even schedule for show...with the ability of the user to add or overright any part.

I've setup systems where a company's account was used to be director/TD for their LIVE webcast...so they needed events..go from this event to the next vs...what source, what effect etc...

This would also be helpful for Churches, etc...when non technical people need to use the system.

This would also open up other options in regards to automation, etc.
for meetings, events, etc.

It would be an additional revenue source for dealers/third parties to help configure and setup autmated show event sequences. This would be very cost effective for many to then purchase a tricaster and be up and running with limited training...or if there are various people that use the Tricaster to help keep shows consistent.

Again, I'm not expecting this or anything additional that NT hasn't stated or showed...these are suggestions for future versions...and to bring up uses, and real world workflow & needs. Making things better for the professional and the Non technical...and everyone inbetween.

Looking forward to seeing the TCXD take the world ;)

Cheers,

gegetrane
12-06-2009, 04:18 AM
Hi Ray.
Of these I find 3 (2x 1G Ethernet) is a must, and is probably not included due to a motherboard choice. But then, couldn't an accessory card be fitted in that would add this extra Ethernet ? Hum... probably not due to physical considerations...
And 4 would be in my na´ve opinion the most easy to implement through a simple software uodate. I love it. Always loved macros in fact.

Gerald

ACross
12-06-2009, 09:56 PM
Hi Ray.
Of these I find 3 (2x 1G Ethernet) is a must, and is probably not included due to a motherboard choice. But then, couldn't an accessory card be fitted in that would add this extra Ethernet ? Hum... probably not due to physical considerations...
And 4 would be in my na´ve opinion the most easy to implement through a simple software uodate. I love it. Always loved macros in fact.
Gerald

I am interested in why it is useful to have 2x 1Gbps ports. Straming for instance does not get close to using the bandwidth of Gbps (or even close).

PIZAZZ
12-06-2009, 10:11 PM
I have a client that has the same request of 2 ports. I haven't had a chance to ask you guys yet what the possibility is.

Their situation is they want to have a dedicated streaming connection and dedicated connection for backing up the recorded video of the show. They will need to keep streaming for a complete weekend. Since the XD300 doesn't have enough storage space for the compete event, they need to offload the content and didn't want to take a chance of hiccups on the stream if they saturated the connection. They broadcast 12-15 hours a day for 3 day straight.

radams
12-06-2009, 10:29 PM
Hi Andrew,

It is more like Jef has stated...

To allow a dedicated line for streaming...since for many is the main distribution point...and will become even more so in the future.

This just helps to protect the throughput...even if it isn't taking the Gbps...
Allowing a dedicated line...helps protect it from being effected by saturation, errors or dropouts from other sources...ei: iVGA

It then allows a safety net for seperating out other sources/processes to another ethernet connection...such as iVGA, Network backups, control surfaces...directly connected systems for additional resources, etc...

If you are connected with only one ethernet connection...and put all of that on one channel...then the possibility of errors, slow downs and issues is just that much greater...

Now another scenerio...is allowing dedicated ethernet connections for multiple iVGA sources...or one iVGA source...and a control surface...etc.

Having two connections also allows for a dual fast throughput...so you can gang the two together for even faster throughput if needed...to supply a larger net's backbone at higher speeds & thus resolutions/throughput.

There are several reasons that a Dual Nic would be helpful...and desired.
a) Operationally.
b) Protection
c) Throughput
d) Isolation, and Dedication
e) Backup

Cheers,

ACross
12-06-2009, 10:34 PM
I am still not entirely sure that I understand why you need two connections. A network switch / router would give you as many as you need. A typical HD stream takes between 1-2MBps, so you are not going to put a dent in a 1GBps network connection. A full high bit-rate, HD stream takes about 100MBps so you still have pleeenty of bandwidth left over even when doing both.

PIZAZZ
12-06-2009, 10:47 PM
This client of mine has some real techy IT guys that are worried about jeopardizing the stream. ( their money)

I guess the bigger question would be,

Is there any network connection management going on in the XD300?

Like a Quality of Service kind of setting that insures X amount of bandwidth for the webstream. They are afraid that if they start pulling content off the XD300 across the network to a NAS, they will saturate the network connection. Apparently they have had problems with this on their current TriCasters. Remember 15 hours of content every day so that would be 15 x 12gigs right to move across the network every day.

I am sure I can get more details if you like.

PIZAZZ
12-06-2009, 10:51 PM
soooooo, along these lines...

What about if you had a dedicated pipe to a Network storage location, could you record directly to that shared folder?

They could map their ports to connect point to point more or less in their switch.

radams
12-06-2009, 11:01 PM
Hi Andrew,

Just as Jef has pointed out.
The concern about lossing a connection...even if remote...is a strong issue for those counting on that connection.

Being able to isolate processes to a specific connection eliminates this issue.
It also opens up additional options...like using networked sources, backup, etc...without fear of slowing down or negatively effecting a webcast or other source material...

For those broadcast engineers, IT people...and for management...this would be a serious concern.

Also with the changing Technology landscape...the more distribution through streaming is only going to grow exponentionally...and protecting that stream will become even more important.

Putting more processes and sources through one connection only makes the possibilty of slow downs, errors...and even lock ups more possible.

Just my 2 cents...and I think you'll find those with the pocketbooks wanting to see that stream protected. With the Broadcast Engineers/IT people looking to add seperated/protected functionality.

Cheers,

radams
12-06-2009, 11:12 PM
Maybe this might help abit more...

a) Think of the webstream as a dedicated line out (for protection)...not necesarrily part of local network...but is the main output.

b) think of the secondary connection for a seperate network or dedicated computer ivga, or dedicated Storage/backup system.

They are not part of the same net...but dedicated systems for this.

Think of the Todocast system...are you connected via ethernet...yet not part of a local network...though it could be...

It would be so much more secure to isolate the stream to a dedicated line.

the same goes for other sources..or additional networks...then they won't impact the webstream...or connection.

Your thoughts seem to put everything on the same local network...which may or may not be the case...but giving point to point controls and throughput is very much needed.

I hope that helps to clarify a bit.

Cheers,

ACross
12-07-2009, 09:31 AM
Like a Quality of Service kind of setting that insures X amount of bandwidth for the webstream. They are afraid that if they start pulling content off the XD300 across the network to a NAS, they will saturate the network connection. Apparently they have had problems with this on their current TriCasters. Remember 15 hours of content every day so that would be 15 x 12gigs right to move across the network every day.

We looked into QoS protocol support with XD300, but unfortunately no routers currently support this correctly :(

With regards to pulling large amounts of footage of the system while in use I would strongly caution you against this when in a live production, either in TriCaster TCXD300 or SD models. There is no way to ensure that the drive can sustain enough bandwidth for record+playback AND also pulling the data off on a saturated GB ethernet connection (=100Mbyte/s). This would be like pulling data off a commercial DDR while playback ... chances are it will stutter.

Both TC and TCXD300 have eSATA connections, I would strongly recommend that you look at these. You can build a much bigger/faster external drive array if you want.

PIZAZZ
12-07-2009, 09:40 AM
The esata connection was one I was already considering too. These guys want to remotely back it up across the convention center and they think in network solutions before local solutions. I will put together a proposal for a esata solution locally to the XD300.

Thanks for the info

radams
12-07-2009, 10:33 AM
Hi Jef and Andrew,

There is still a need IMHO for two Gbps Nics.

There are additional uses and configurations...and would allow a dedicated line out for webcasting.

So Jef for your client's specific needs...you will add a local raided disk system with an esata on it..is that correct? How large are you able to go in storage...and with what kind of raid? You'll need something that a multi disk failure would handle. It's going to be a bit noisy too, with a limited length.

So you can setup a record path only to the external drive array.

Still it would be nice to be able to use an external NAS' etc...for playbacks only or recording only too...couldn't it be setup to playback from the local drives and still record over ethernet to a raided NAS?

Then you'll have basically the same issues as using an external esata. Accept that it can be remote from the tricaster.

With all the options and changing technology...especially in regards to networking, controls, storage and signal paths via ethernet...doesn't it make sense to put two Nics on the TCXD series?

Especially since your own research show that QoS isn't proper supported by routers etc...

Then you can dedicated each Nic to a specific point to point task.

Cheers,

radams
12-07-2009, 10:46 AM
Hi again,

Here is another thought in regards to the uses of Ethernet connections.

To allow and maintain a dedicated webstream line out...say through Todocast or dedicated line...

Then be able to use the other Nic to bring in iVGA sources...or Skype, or another Camera source via ethernet...an external storage for playbacks of recording to.

Even if you're not streaming...having two Nics can allow you to dedicate sources to specific connections.

Then you could maintain a couple of iVGA sources with them not conflicting with each other.

Well, at least it's something I hope you can have a chat about with the Dev team. What else could NT do with a Dual Nic vs One?

Hey just another thought...is there anyway to allow a USB connection to be used as a source...say from a cell phone displaying video/audio through it's USB?

Cheers,

csandy
01-05-2010, 04:40 PM
Both TC and TCXD300 have eSATA connections, I would strongly recommend that you look at these. You can build a much bigger/faster external drive array if you want.

I thought the standard definition TriCasters with the Intel DG45ID Meida Series G45 micro-ATX motherboard was introduced somewhat recently.

My TCBroadcast certainly doesn't have eSATA - though I know there are some that do have it. I also thought the non-eSATA TCs were in the majority but maybe I'm wrong? My TCPro didn't have eSATA either come to think of it....

ACross
01-05-2010, 04:47 PM
I was referring to the TCXD300 and not the standard definition units. Some of those have eSATA, while some do not.

csandy
01-05-2010, 04:59 PM
Sorry, I must have misread your post. By "both the TC and the TCXD300" in your post, I took the "TC" to mean the standard definition TriCaster line of products.

ACross
01-05-2010, 05:19 PM
Sorry, I must have misread your post. By "both the TC and the TCXD300" in your post, I took the "TC" to mean the standard definition TriCaster line of products.

You are absolutely correct and I did mis-speak. Some TC units will have eSATA, some will not.