View Full Version : RPF format

02-26-2003, 07:30 PM
I have got the RPF format to work well for depth use.
But I'm having a hard time with depth blur.
Any one get it to work?

Also the aux channels for say UV texturing in DFX+ again any advise is welcome.


03-04-2003, 05:28 PM
It's pretty straightforward - what problems are you having?

03-04-2003, 11:34 PM
I don't know how to respond when you say "pretty straight foward".
Guess I'll read a little more and figure it out.

03-12-2003, 01:34 AM
Do you have any screens of what you are trying to accomplish. I went to a LW training seminar hosted by Lee Stranahan and he demonstrated something along this line. I'm not sure if I understood what he did completely, but if I can be of any help I'd be more than happy to offer. I have a question also. Can I take advantage of RLA & RPF in PS7. I'm trying to set up a few objects at varying distances from the camera and have the objects in the center be in focus while the objects in the foreground & background are out of focus. Lee did this, but he used Fusion. I believe he used the Z-Buffer to accomplish this or the object ID. When he did it he just clicked on the object he wanted to be in focus and it automatically changed focus as he clicked on the various objects.

03-27-2003, 10:13 PM
Sorry I took so long to reply.
I've been reading the manual and got no where so I started to experiment.
I guess what I need is one of those Lee classes to set off the light bulb.
Been busy with other stuff but plan to go at it again next week.
Any thing you remeber would be great.
Just send it to me via email.
Even it's partial memory from what you saw.

Thanks in advance

03-27-2003, 11:28 PM
Well, I'm not going to say DON'T take the classes, but I'm not pimping them in a discussion forum...

The main trick is to NOT use the normal image savers...

Use the Image Filer > RPF Export plugin - it's a built in image saver that actually saves the data you need in a compositing program...

No support in Photoshop right now - you need Digital Fusion / After Effects Production Bundle / Combustion / Shake or that kind of thing....

03-28-2003, 07:27 PM
I've composited before in AE using RLA.
It was very handy to adding a object to an already finished animation.
Now that I have DFX+, I want to use RPF and all that comes with it.
So I read the manual to try to say add a texture or replace a UV texture.
Can't figure that out.
Another is the shadow and a I guess all of the 3D channels.
All I have been able to do is the depth merge, which works much better than AE in the fact that I can see and pick the point of the depth channel I want.

So I need more input (as number 5 would say).

Waiting for a flow being sent to me from a guy on pigfly.
I think once I see one flow using a 3D channel, I will figure it out.

06-18-2003, 04:32 PM

did you get to figure this out?

I have been trying to output RFP from LW and then use these in DF (full) for texture remapping.

But I have been having problems with this - it could be that the files output by LW are corrupt (I get odd patterns in the DF displays when I try to pick objects or materials), or I could be making a mess myself.

I've tried but so far I've had no reply from either Newtek or Eyeon about this.

Did you succeed in what you were doing?


06-18-2003, 10:49 PM
Same here, lines through the object.
Posted to pigsfly and hoping they have an answer.


Arnie Cachelin
06-19-2003, 10:14 AM
Some of the extra buffers in the RLA and RPF saver filters, like Material, object, UVs, etc. are generated by shaders which can only fill in pixels that are actually shaded. With Adaptive Sampling turned on, some pixels get skipped. The answer is to turn off adaptive sampling. Also, for UVs to be available in the image, the surface must use the UVs.

06-19-2003, 04:34 PM

thanks for that - turning off adaptive sampling fixes the lines in the object.

Now all I have to do is get the UV map to be recognised by DF - currently the whole frame gets filled by a single pixel, even though the rendered LW frame contains the UV mapped texture, but I'm not confident I'm not at fault there...

Working on it...


06-19-2003, 05:00 PM
Turning off adaptive worked for removing the lines, thanks.

All is well but I had to select rotate 90 in the texture tool for the UV image map to show up right on my experiment cube.

Thank you for helping,

06-19-2003, 06:03 PM
OK try this,
I made a box with the front (that faces the camera ) polygon deleted.
Called it room.
Gave the URN object a UV texture.
Loaded both into LW.
Placed the URN in the room centered.
Moved the light and camera for the test and turned off adaptive sampling and turned on raytrace shadow.
Used ext. RPF in image proc.
Used the UV in the urn surface.
Rendered out as room with urn.
Now cloned the urn.
Moved it in front of the original urn and to the left.
Changed the RPF name to urn.
Made the room and first urn unseen by camera.
Loader in DFX of room with urn.
Inserted a loader and selected the urn.
No need to depth merge because I rendered it in place for this example.
But it cast no shadow because nothing in LW to cast onto (unseen by camera).
So I insert shadow after the urn.
I pick Z as the Z map channel (defaults to Alpha).
I then drag the room with urn output to the green arrow of the shadow.
I then pick the back wall of the room as the Z far plane and the very front of the room (Floor neares camera) as the Z near plane.
Now I move the shadow position (Center position place tool) and then play with the light position (Far left position tool).
I also move the sliders for the Light distance and min. depth mao light dist with min being 0 and light dist. being .86 for a look that matched the length of the shadow with the LW rendered shadow.
I've done this before but now I don't know what I have done different from the past but the shadow is conforming to the curvature of the urn in the rear as well as the corners of the wall.
This is freakin cool.

06-19-2003, 06:43 PM
Here is a DivX animation of the DFX shadow animated to show you what I'm talking about.

Take care,

06-20-2003, 03:31 AM
Cool, like you say - surely you shouldn't be able to do this in a 2D app:)

Have you tried to put a different texture on the urn in DF? The texture tool is supposed to do this - give it (as I understand it) an RPF file with UV map data in it as background, and a new texture image as foreground, and you should be able to map the new texture using the UV map onto the urn (say) by picking the urn (use object in common controls).

Most of this works for me - just the final mapping of the new texture maps a single pixel everywhere in the chosen object, as if the RPF file didn't contain a UV map. But since I had checked "TextureUV Buffer" in the LW ext RPF export shader, this information should have been there.

Has anyone else managed to get the texture tool to work with LW RPF files?



06-20-2003, 07:16 AM
It works for me.
If you go up a few post you'll see all I had to do was select the rotate 90 button in the texture tool to get a UV image map I made to line up perfectly.
This is sweet.
I even load the tiger image in the images\animal directory that comes with LW as a test image to map.
But you don't need to use the texture tool.
I also use the shader tool (found this out last night).
In there do as the texture tool but you can make the image map to the object or material as in texture but you can play with the surface attributes and map the image to the object you want.
Again, like you said, if there is no UV, then it will map as a one pixel map but if there is a UV it maps great on rounded objects like the urn but does not work on a cube.

I will be experimenting as much as I can today and will start to put togeather a web page with all the different things I've found I can do.

Will post when completed.

Take care,

06-25-2003, 12:18 PM
nice animation! is there a way to get the spec to follow the light source too?

i am rendering out my first rpf sequence now!!!!!

06-25-2003, 02:05 PM
If there is, I don't know how to do it :)
Let me see it when your done.

Take care,

06-25-2003, 02:39 PM

Mind putting together a little tutorial of this...the manuals are a little skimpy on the use of RPF in DF in my opinion.

Maybe if you don't have time, I could call you and you could walk me through it and I could assemble the tutorial on your behalf and host it at my site or here @ newtek or @ eyeon's site.

Thanks for all your hard work and discoveries. :)

06-25-2003, 10:59 PM
I'm acually making notes on everything I've learned through lots of trail and error as well as help from a few people on the user groups.
When I'm done, I plan on making a tutorial :)

Take care,

06-25-2003, 11:03 PM
Super cool...thanks.

i am currently struggling with it.....:D

06-25-2003, 11:05 PM
I will try my best to pump somthing out next week.
A starter tutorial so to speak.

take care,

06-25-2003, 11:19 PM
super cool....that may be all i need...

i am loving DF otherwise. :)

06-25-2003, 11:25 PM
COOOL!! I got the Fog and DoF Blur working today!!!!!

RPF is cool....

I seemed to have a problem identifying objects and surfaces though... I know they were checked off in the extended rfp saver.

I have a simple scene with a car driving down a road, and i wanted to add highlights to the scene... only problem, it highlights the white lines in the road too...

do i need to render the car in a seperate image sequence?


*should I be able to identify the object ID and use that as an inverse mask for the highlight?

06-25-2003, 11:27 PM

very cool.

i know i'm just missing a flow node or some dern switch....

i wish it were covered in the der docs ya know. :confused:

06-25-2003, 11:34 PM
hey policarpo... try right clicking on the flow node that is giving you problems and switching the inputs. I think the green arrow is the backround, and the orange arrow is the forground... I was having a problem today and that fixed it.

Or just post a pic of your flow!

edit: it sure is fun to hack through this program with other people

06-26-2003, 08:20 AM
Best way to allways make sure your flow is going in the right flow.
Right click on a empty flow space.
Add loader and choose the RPF file/seq. your want as the background.
Now click right click on the RPF that you just added.
Select add loader.
Before it allows you to select the foreground file/seq., DF will make the proper merge by droping the merge tool and connecting it for you automaticly.
Now select the file you want as a foreground and bingo.
Perfect comp :)

A few tips that I hope can help without images to show what I'm talking about;
Always de-select adaptive sampling before you render.
If you plan to do anything to a surface, then make sure you give it a UV map.
Make sure for your test, you do not name all the surfaces DEFAULT (sounds dumb I know but I did it).
For making the fore cast a shadow onto the background that will conform to the backgrounds depth Z, render a plain old TGA32 file/seq. for the fore. I have not figured out how to get the RPF fore image to cast a depth conforming shadow properly and the flat TGA works great.
*[Casting a shadow deffinetly needs a tutorial as it involves a lot of things to understand but once you understand, a light will light up in your head and you can go to town]*
Hit the Z button on the viewer you have your background on and see if you have a grey scale image showing the depth. If you do not then switch back to color and just move your mouse over the area you want the depth map to merge as LW's scale factor comes into play here. I think the lights in the LW scene have something to do with how a depth map's grey scale comes into play from the RPF saver in LW.
Ohhh...RPF or DF or LW are not super acurate or are super acurate with the depth tool in DF and I'll explain.
If you want to create a depth merge of a ball that will go between a box and the wall in the rear of a room and you render out the room with box as RPF and then render just the ball in TGA or RPF.
Then using the flow methode I described (right click then right click) DF does not have enough depth field to do the merge or it's so acurate that it know the ball does not fit in 3D space.
So make sure your 3D space is big enough to not get stuck with this.

Take care,

liquid light
09-18-2003, 01:40 PM
I've managed to get some very simple UV surface replacement working in DFX+ but now I"m having a problem with a more recent test.

I've modelled a sphere, making one half transparent. I've made the bisection a poly, so I can UV map an image onto the bisection poly, visible through the glass half of the sphere. Basically, a quick n dirty cockpit.

This all renders as expected in LW. I export the 90 frame sequence as extended RPF images sequences.. all buffers are exported. Adaptive sampling disabled.

The problem is when I get it into DFX+, I cant select the image poly inside the sphere with the Texture tool. It keeps selecting the glass part of the sphere in front. Using the sliders doesnt help either, its as if DFX doesnt even acknowledge the existence of the imagemapped surface inside the sphere.

Anyone have this problem? Solutions?

09-19-2003, 06:38 PM
And the rotation slider did not work?

liquid light
09-21-2003, 05:21 PM
I dont understand, Jose,

I dont want to 'rotate' the image.. just map it on to the surface. But the PICK dropper wont 'see' the surface behind the glass. Is there another way to select it?


10-01-2003, 03:00 PM
OK, I tried a box with the front trans. and I got the same results.

Don't know the answer.