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clagman
11-13-2009, 09:15 AM
I'm feeling so good about this. I developed a method where you can use Vue xStream and so far at 100% with out having any problems once it is setup.

Ok for dynamic ecosystems to work properly the trick is to have only a single camera per scene. Multiple cameras will make dynamic eco dance around. This is probably due to the dynamic subdivision based on the camera but if there are two cameras I think it gets confused about which one to base the subdiv on so the polygons probably move around. Once you eliminate all but one camera blammo rock solid dyn eco (so far at least heh).

Problem with camera 0 keyframe. It wants to put the camera where it likes on frame 0. If you are animating from frame 1, it should be all good. My personal preference is to create a camera null to control the camera just to make sure that if anything odd happens to the camera keyframes you just delete them since the null is controlling it all. So far it only seems to have a problem with frame 0 though.

With these two things in mind I have been able to animate and render in LW using xStream for the environment with no problems. So far I haven't been able to test for character animation but complex objects are fine.

Issues remaining to work out:

Having a time figuring out how to get the "object flies through cloud" part to work with the gamma setup. So long as the objects do not actually go through the clouds getting a good linear gamma setup is not particularly difficult. Also getting the cameras to match perfectly when going from LW to Vue for comping probably won't happen soon but they are VERY close to the point of where it won't matter for most shots. I have to set my LW camera frame size to 0.798" in order to match up with the Vue camera FoV.

Thats about it guys, I hope all this helps someone out there.

3dworks
11-13-2009, 02:34 PM
can you actually open the current LW scene in vue standalone? if i'm using this command i'm always getting an empty scene opened.

thanks for the tips

cheers

markus

clagman
11-13-2009, 02:46 PM
Yes you should be able to. Of course you are using a different OS than I am so I can't be sure of the problem. That is mainly how I would comp my scenes before
all this crap started working.

3dworks
11-13-2009, 03:31 PM
Yes you should be able to. Of course you are using a different OS than I am so I can't be sure of the problem. That is mainly how I would comp my scenes before
all this crap started working.

i'm on win xp64 for this... (mac is still 32 bit only, apparently they are about to release a 64 bit version as well, soon) - and it's a strange issue as it's such a basic function not working. for the rest, also my first impression about this xstream release is that finally it went 'adult' ;)

cheers

markus

clagman
11-13-2009, 05:02 PM
It works pretty flawlessly here, maybe trash he config file or re install? I am on vista 64 though. I dunno where I got the idea that you were on a mac.

Ya it's the only release that really been able to work with reliably (so far so good anyway) without resorting to comp, which is fine actually. Just takes more time to setup. Vue actually seems to do a good job of importing LW objects so long as you aren't using nodes, so there is always that.

Actually I just thought of somthing. I don't mean to insult you by suggesting somthing this basic but, you do have the "vue camera" animated or setup when you export?

nanaboso
11-14-2009, 12:40 AM
I'm getting the same result as 3dworks. When I, from within the Vue8xStream plugin, try and open the scene in standalone Vue, I get an empty scene. I'm on Vista 64 by the way. In earlier versions, when opening the scene in Vue it kept everything Vue related I had added in LW, not the LW objects though. I'm a little confused because you talk about comping. Are you using xStream or are you using the sync plugin?

3dworks
11-14-2009, 02:32 AM
I'm getting the same result as 3dworks. When I, from within the Vue8xStream plugin, try and open the scene in standalone Vue, I get an empty scene. I'm on Vista 64 by the way. In earlier versions, when opening the scene in Vue it kept everything Vue related I had added in LW, not the LW objects though. I'm a little confused because you talk about comping. Are you using xStream or are you using the sync plugin?

btw i tried this also under OSX, same issue. i'm expecting a e-on support ticket to be answered...

cheers

markus

clagman
11-14-2009, 10:21 AM
Odd. I have no explanation, especially with the Vista OS. Did you guys install the pre release?

I was talking about xstream actually. Comping was something I did when necessary but it seems those days are becoming numbered. When I get to work Monday I will test the open in standalone command to make sure I'm not going crazy.

nanaboso
11-15-2009, 02:12 AM
I had the pre-release installed, now it's the "official one". I just tried it again and found that I was wrong, everything I add inside LW is there when I open stand-alone Vue. However any change made inside of Vue don't pass through to LW. In earlier versions I could paint my ecosystems inside of Vue and when I rendered in LW the items would appear. I can however save the scene from within Vue and then open it from within LW, and everything is dandy. So I'm very happy with this version, I even find that rendering from LW is now faster than before, though not as fast as in Vue.

3dworks
11-15-2009, 02:40 AM
I had the pre-release installed, now it's the "official one". I just tried it again and found that I was wrong, everything I add inside LW is there when I open stand-alone Vue. However any change made inside of Vue don't pass through to LW. In earlier versions I could paint my ecosystems inside of Vue and when I rendered in LW the items would appear. I can however save the scene from within Vue and then open it from within LW, and everything is dandy. So I'm very happy with this version, I even find that rendering from LW is now faster than before, though not as fast as in Vue.

what build number of vue and LW are you actually using?

nanaboso
11-15-2009, 05:01 AM
47443

clagman
11-15-2009, 11:26 AM
Yep same here with LW 9.6. I'm glad I wasn't going crazy.

On another note the main reason that Vue renders faster than xstream is that it takes shortcuts with the quality. To obtain similar quality you have to set the AA to systematic, adjust the ray recursion, and get rid of any optimization (final pass, volumetric lights), enable texture AA and filtering. After all that you will have the renderers on close to equal footing. You'll notice very little difference in the speed after that. I think I was down to 12-15% depending...

Also when dealing with clouds and things like that, I find that you dont have to set the atmosphere quality quite as high in xstream because the AA in LW will handle a lot of the noise (like how it handles MC radiosity noise).

Anybody qualify this?

kfinla
11-15-2009, 02:20 PM
Good to hear Xstreme is finally working as advertised in vue 8. One of the few perks of LW being end of life'd at 9.6.1 its a pretty static target for e-on to hit.

Of course im on Vue 7.4xst waiting for the last build to not be called a beta build.

I was thinking of upgrading to 8 infinite but apparently that is not allowed, i have to buy 8 xstream. So I think I'm waiting for 9. I just use it casually so its not worth the 500$ to go from 7.4 to 8 to me yet.

3dworks
12-19-2009, 03:46 AM
no news about that xstream 8 issue which makes standalone vue not open the current xstream scene from within layout. after waiting for over one month for an answer of eon tech support i give up. i sent them all details, screenshots etc. about the problem and patiently waited for a new software update. the latest patch does not resolve anything. nada. as it is now, a complete workflow by sending data from layout to vue and back, is impossible. btw., same problem on windows 64 bit and on mac 32 bit.

clagman
12-24-2009, 10:44 AM
It's peculiar because it works on both workstations here (vista 64). I haven't yet tried to open a scene from LW modify and see if it gets back in, but just opening seems fine. It's no wonder they haven't gotten back since it isn't being reproduced on all computers.

We have UAC disabled completely. I haven't tried this with the latest update so I can't say but it was working.

clagman
12-24-2009, 04:02 PM
Ahh I'm sure you are right.

Well merry Christmas to all those poor Vue addicts out there.

nanaboso
12-25-2009, 03:54 AM
With Vue 8, and the new Vue tab in LW I'm quite happy. But I haven't seen many users praising Eon's user support. Anyhow, merry Christmas to all of you.

3DBob
12-30-2009, 03:54 AM
Hi All,

Well - I have found out some interesting things and have solved most issues re LW Xtreme and 8.

The biggest is if you log in to a domain - Vue Xtreme (any version) will not work in a whole host of ways. Having a login that has administrator privalages will not solve the problem - you have to be logged in as THE machine administrator for everything to work properly. Typical problems like an imported object not appearing in LW OGL and the branch buttons not functioning are a symptom of this. You will have much better experience if you are running as the Machines administrator. We have found a workaround using a Batch file that mounts the users drives and a shortcut that runs LW as the machines administrator. If LW is run as the machines administrator, then when you launch "standalone vue" it also runs under the machines administrator account.

The second biggest is loading LW objects and importing Vue objects. you need to do the following.

- Each object must have a reference (i use a sub terrainian cube out of the bounding box of the original object set to a different surface so it can be made transparent later)
- save LW version
- triangulate and save another version for vue with all elements on a single layer
- run the bounding box plugin and write down the longest dimension
- Load LW version
- Import triangulated version - using the manual size option and enter in the longest dimension
- align Vue version with LW version
- turn on parent in place
- parent LW Version to Vue version
- set render vue options in apps as necessary

If you do not triangulate the object that you want to import - Vue will triangulate it - it seams to do this by contiguous chunk and bizarrely can relocate segments and as it does not triangulate in same order it can mirror objects making it impossible to align imported elements with LW objects. Using the above solution resolves this and you can get matched elements in order for you to accurately paint ecosystems, save and then load back into LW for animation and rendering - e.g. having a LW object that vehicle rigger can use to run a vehicle along locked to a vue textured copy of the road with Nodes on the vehicle - all perfectly camera matched.

If anyone has a clue how to get objects to import in the same position as they load - then that would be great.

I wanted to use this plugin to align the reference box rather than doing it manually - however its interface is fragged in 9.6

http://www.artssphere.com/plugins/alignanddistributelayout.php

Does anyone know another similar solution for layout aligning?

Now, if I could only get Vue standalone cameras to match LWs

I hope this helps

3DBob

3DBob
12-30-2009, 08:36 AM
Hi Again,

Solved another big show stopper.... the team here was using several 1024 X 1024 Vue geometry patches and it turns out that after a bit of ecosystem painting - it was grabbing nearly 5 GB to render - hence - REALLY slow.

A quick low poly mesh on flat areas has resulted in Fast, Nice renders.

3DBob

3DBob
12-30-2009, 02:46 PM
hmmm. - any ideas where?

B

clagman
12-30-2009, 03:16 PM
I think the key is to turn UAC off as we are all logged into a domain (with admin privilege on local) with Vista 64 boxes and it all works.

I can definitely use the position matching procedure since that is the only way to clip native objects with Vue procedural clouds. Thanks for that bit!

Nice to know about the patches. So far been getting away with using infinite terrains for most everything but I'll keep in mind for when I'm using DEMs.

3DBob
12-31-2009, 01:54 AM
Hi Megolodon,

Yes it has that dialogue - but when you load either centred or not - it always places with an offset. Have not tried different coordinate systems in LW - I'll give that a go.

Regards

3DBob

3DBob
01-05-2010, 12:01 PM
Hi All,

Ok - mostly sorted with the use of the Align for layout plugin. Then I got a mail back from Steven at www.vuescripts.com.

With VueExport3 - transferring a load of objects and matching the cameras seams pretty simple - it'll even transfer object sequences and particles.

I can't quite believe it does it so well - but it does. Just st the global scales to 10. Lots to investigate with this - but if you are using xtreme with LW - do not be without this plugin.

getting there

3DBob

clagman
01-05-2010, 01:07 PM
The problem I have is mostly to do with the pivot point. It doesn't stay when importing lwo. So objects that are sitting on the ground in modeler are half way under when imported because the pivot is placed more in the middle. So I end up doing a bit of aligning. Scaling is no problem.

I need to check out these vue scripts for sure.

3DBob
01-05-2010, 01:13 PM
The align script I talked about above sorts that out - well not the pivot point.

The VueExport 3 scripts seem to trivialise the object matching thing.

3DBob

3DBob
01-05-2010, 01:52 PM
Hi there,

Well he may be having a change of mind as there is a PLE version of Vue 8 now that he can test things with. As it stands - I bought VE and am using a beta of 3 that works very nicely - just testing object sequence transfer at the moment.

3DBob

3DBob
01-06-2010, 02:00 AM
Ok Steve caved in and downloaded VUE 8 PLE.

In doing so he may have resolved the centering issue - I need to properly test, but there are some vue impot options IN vue (not the import pop up in lightwave) that affect imported sequences.

He says:

"Check the File/Options, in the Object section and uncheck the following.
Offset duplicated objects
Center Vue Objects when loading
Drop Imported objects to ground"

sure enough the "Center Vue Objects when loading" was set.

Checking

3dworks
01-06-2010, 03:48 AM
i'm still waiting for the serious layout - vue connection issues with xstream to be resolved (see earlier posts)... apparently they are working on it, so tech support told me. this was before xmas.

3DBob
01-06-2010, 06:15 AM
Hi 3dworks,

My problems like that were resolved when running as machines administrator, WixXP Pro 64 bit.

Can you be more specific?

3DBob

3DBob
01-07-2010, 12:33 PM
Hi All,

An update,

Using Vue Export 3 I was able to export an object sequence of Bunting from LW to Vue with camera and motion seamingly matched.

Flag fabric was caculated 4X realtime with latest Syflex.

3DBob

3DBob
01-07-2010, 02:21 PM
I have been told today when I took delivery of syflex that they are still actively updating the LW version.

The *.p I have is dated 22/07/2008 - and it is lovely, by far the best fabric in LW ever.

I've been playing with it and it seams pretty stable and does way more than I want - it also has loads more additional Forces like Collide Objects, Volume, Air, Turbulence. These are not even in the docs!

3DBob

3DBob
01-07-2010, 02:38 PM
I'm not complaining - I've tried other stuff. This just works and the non-modal panels allow realtime tweaking - fantastic. I would appreciate dial gadgets on the panels - but a small issue really.

Took about 10 mins to get a string with a load of flags hanging off to work at you would expect. Nice

3DBob

clagman
01-07-2010, 02:43 PM
3DBob, I have been meaning to ask. How did you get around the LW>Vue camera problem?

3DBob
01-07-2010, 02:50 PM
Basically - using Vue Export 3D - seams to match them up, you must get the scaling right between the two, I am using 10 and make sure you don't confuse issues by having more than one "Main Camera" that vue creates.

- I need to do further tests to be sure - but good so far. I am in the process of building a full producition pipeline as many tools are starting to mature.

For object generation, UV and Paint

LW, 3DCoat, Modo

For animation

LW, PMG

For scenery

Vue

For comp

Fusion, AE

I'll post a few test shots next week.

3DBob

clagman
01-07-2010, 03:09 PM
Just to be specific; the problem that I have isn't motion. It has to do with the vue camera not being able to match the LW camera FoV regardless of settings. I managed to get close by setting the frame size to .798" and the aspect to .9984 but it only works for 35mm once you change the zoom you have to change the settings again.

This has been making it impossible to comp anything. Does this script really fix that? If so I'm definitely in!

3DBob
01-07-2010, 03:13 PM
I understood what you meant - I will test further over coming week. It will be important that we can match stuff.

Need sleep

3DBob

3DBob
01-09-2010, 02:47 PM
Hi All,

I'm pretty certain I can claim to have found a solution to the matching of cameras.

The method is not obvious and is a bit counter-intuitive, but it seams to work, not just for stills, but for animations also. I can render in LW or Vue and get pretty much the same results of a locked camera over a sequence - with variations mainly down to the huge variation in quality and anti alias settings accross the two apps for which I need much further analysis.

Attached is a couple of renders from either end of a 122 frame sequence of a camera pulling back along a road - not final quality but illustrates the point that they match up.

80950

This opens up the possibility of rendering in Vue and front projecting back onto the original LW Geometry for Luminous shadow darkening compositing.

3DBob

clagman
01-09-2010, 04:09 PM
That's great! I can't see the video since I'm on this iPhone. I wonder if you could repost as h.264 or maybe just a short explanation? You da man!

nanaboso
01-10-2010, 12:24 AM
This looks good. How did you manage to match them up? Like clagman, I to have struggled with this problem.

dballesg
01-10-2010, 05:59 AM
This looks good. How did you manage to match them up? Like clagman, I to have struggled with this problem.

+1 :agree:

3DBob
01-11-2010, 10:34 AM
OK, Here is the raw method - maybe I could bake keyframes in LW before going into VUE and this could remove a step - and maybe could do object alignment using Layout Align plugin I described above, however need more investigation, but this works.

Method

Before you begin you must have full amin rights on machine. Also remember large VUE geometry and loads of Eco systems off shot will eat memory and resources without benefit.

1. In lightwave, click on the NEW Vue scene from the LW VUE menu branch

2. Delete all cameras and lights in LW that are not generated by the VUE script - must work with the "Main Camera" generated by VUE xTreme plugin

3. Set up objects in LW including camera animation

4. Using LW VUE menu branch "Open scene in Standalone VUE" send the scene to VUE.

5. Use VUE EXPORT 3 to send objects to VUE

6. Paint ecosystems and set up environment etc.

7. Use LW VUE Sync to sync "Main Camera" (not render camera) and "Sun Light" to VUE ensuring scale is set to 10 and switch to VUE.

8. Say yes/ok to accept various Sync data sets and go to the Light/Obs/Main camera and set the relevant sync files and scale to 10.

9. Set up camera in VUE to Frame Size/type you want

10. Save VUE scene from VUE

11. Load new VUE scene into LW, keyframes will be created on all "Main Camera" frames in LW. [If needed, Load in original LW Geometry into LW to confirm alignment and for Front Projection Comping, setting Render visability as desired.]

12. Save this as Lightwave scene and a VUE scene with _LW to help you identify it.

14. Load this new VUE scene into VUE

13. Re sync the "Main Camera" to LW making sure that you set scale to 10 again (at this point you might notice a subtle move in the camera and this is when it is locked to match LW)

14. Save this as _VUE version of VUE scene.

15. Render in LW and VUE with settings of your choice, and marvel at how you can use them both together!

Now I feel there may be some opportunity for optimisation - but having spent months trying to get this to work, having something that does is a real relief - as I was considering dumping it alltogether. Now onto Render farm and compositing pipeline.

At some point if I get time I may do a training video, If anyone can remove steps here then I would appreciate input. Like I said - not exactly intuitive!

Enjoy

3DBob

clagman
01-11-2010, 01:32 PM
Hmmm I can't seem to get this working. I end up chasing the scale setting all over the place. Sending scene to Vue results in scale of 50. Changing it to 10 really moves the camera quite a lot. Save scene and open in LW reflects seemingly accurate placement. Change camera back to something similar to original and redo the synchro data. Switch to Vue and more of the same...

Never could quite figure out the problem with the scaling but 10 isn't working. Can you tell me what your LW>Vue settings are? Maybe it has to do with my "feet" setting rather than meters.

3DBob
01-11-2010, 01:49 PM
VUE defaults to rendering frame 1 remember.

I set the camera spec in VUE and save the VUE scene - and NEVER touch the camera again in LW after I load that VUE scene in (when the loading of the VUE scene into LW creates keyframes in LW).

I then save that imported VUE scene and Load it into VUE - then sync again and set camera to 10.

et voila.

Granted it does take a bit of time to get your head around it.

3DBob

clagman
01-12-2010, 11:15 AM
I've been playing with this technique but I think my trouble is with the scale setting. 10 won't allow the camera motion to match up, not even close. 50 is also completely wrong (the default). Seems to get really close at 32.5 but still not perfect.

If I try 10 the camera motion is far off so that when importing back to LW the camera motion is wrong there too. Exporting this and opening in Vue and resync only perpetuates the bad camera motion. This definitely gets me closer than I was getting though so thanks for the tip. I think I can probably figure out a way to make this work for me. Much appreciated!

clagman
01-12-2010, 11:34 AM
How about this. Instead of working with the vuesynch plugin use the export animation to Vuescene then open in standalone, setup camera, save, and open with Vue controls in LW blammo! Comes in handy if you have the camera parented to something that is driving the animation and if you have animated Vue objects. So far the scenes come out perfect.

I guess the idea is to NOT look at the FoV settings because they still don't match haha! So long as it looks correct, no worries...

Can't test it on the farm because they are chugging away on something right now.

clagman
01-12-2010, 12:25 PM
Yesshh 3 in a row, i'm gonna get banned ;o)

I can get the vuesynch to work but my scale needs to be set at 32.8 for some reason. Otherwise it just won't work. 3DBob I'd be interested in seeing why our numbers don't match up.

3DBob
01-12-2010, 02:03 PM
Hi there,

Rendering a sequence at the moment - and too nackered from finding the optimum render quality settings last night (all night). I can get a 720p out of a 60m poly scene with spectral clouds in 1 hour which I'm happy with.

I'll try your technique - I've been using the VUE Export 3 Plugin - maybe that is doing something.

Definitely - once you have set the camera in VUE - do not mess with it in LW and make sure you are only using the one that VUE makes.

3DBob

clagman
01-12-2010, 03:55 PM
Yep it's working well now, very well. I find that I really must use the vuesynch method because if you change the zoom, exporting the animation doesn't get it and trying to do it manually well forget that.

LW antialiasing vue objects is just so not ideal. Even with vue set to AA:7-24 98% and 10% texture filtering, and texture AA; it still creams LW, especially with clouds involved.

All this leads to a situation where we have a native object in LW with a reflective surface and an ecosystem that now would be getting rendered in vue and composited. Probably with projection mapping an image sequence. How do you get LW obects to reflect the ecosystem properly since they are no longer in xstream.

No matter what, this will definitely save my bacon when it comes time to render that scenic "camera flies over the city and through the moutains" shot and will probably make flying through clouds feasable now that we will have acess to the cloud mask again.

3DBob
01-13-2010, 06:46 AM
Hi Clagman,

Excellent

So, can you summarise, point by point, your current process. Maybe we can nail this once and for all.

I want more people to know that LW and VUE can play nicely if you understand them - so that development advances more in our direction.

3DBob

clagman
01-13-2010, 07:55 AM
Sure man. It's all based on your work so....

Open LW, create xStream scene in your favorite way (file>new or just open atmosphere editor). Delete residual Lightwave based lights as all lights that need to reside in both xStream and Infinite need to be created by using xStream menu item Add Light.

Setup objects, materials, camera animation; if you have animated any of the Vue objects you must use the "file>export animation to Vue scene" command then use "file>open scene in standalone Vue" menu item.

Now Vue is open and should have objects loaded and basic scene setup etc. Now is the time to use the vuesynch plugin. Select the appropriate items (cameras, lights etc) and use the "synchronize data" button if you wish to avoid manually loading in the synchro data. Switch over to Vue window and it will ask you to confirm import synchro data, select yes.

Select camera to synchronize and navigate to the navigation tab. In the motion pull down menu select "synchronized" and it will show you a list of the synchro data that it has loaded. Select appropriate item. Now the tricky part is you have to tell Vue what the scale is on this animation. In my case it is 32.8 and the camera motion/position is now almost dead on. Setup the camera in Vue up to the proper format (focal, aspect etc) then save this file "file>save as".

Switch back over to Lightwave and use the "file>open" xStream menu item to load in that scene. The camera is now in perfect alignment and matches the Vue camera in output. Note that the FoV and zoom numbers don't even come close to matching though but just ignore this.

Thats it, start rendering! It won't solve all issues but definitely adds some important capabilities, faster rendering being one of those.

I animated the LW camera doing some pretty crazy stuff, rotating on multiple banks while panning and zooming and it all came across flawlessly.

3DBob
01-13-2010, 08:51 AM
Hi Clagman,

Yes that is about it....

Must remember to Sync "Main Camera" that Vue created when making a new VUE scene and NOT the "Render Camera" that it auto highlights in the VueSync plugin. When I used the "Render Camera" in the Vue Sync plugin - I get a mismatch even when I set the scale.

What is your advice on render settings. What areas are most important to quality.

Re comping reflective objects. You could create and object mask in LW and render a crop of the object or even turning camera visability off for the VUE elements (iff poss - must test) might allow you to render the LW object with reflections. Use Worleys Luminous shadow darkening,Front projection and original geometry as shadow catcher for comping.

I am looking to do a test where I have PMG animated chars tied to LW animated Objects with Syflex cloth rendered into VUE scenes. With a hair option in there. Not asking for much eh!

It is Finally nice to be confident about using LW with VUE in a pipeline.

3DBob

clagman
01-13-2010, 11:03 AM
The problem is you cannot exclude Vue objects in the alpha and if you turn them off it actually does not render them at all so no reflections. It didn't used to be this way. In v7 you could disable the Vue scene and it would ONLY show up in reflections etc. Now it really does not render at all (which is more accurate I suppose). I haven't been able to solve this one aside from:

Turn on ray marching evaluation, set LW object to constant black alpha render and do some post work on the alpha channel to get rid of the sky gradient, invert. Or you can render with Fprime which WONT render any volumetric effect like Vue stuff and you automatically get the correct alpha so long as your object isn't being obscured by a Vue object etc. Or you can get back into the whole import LW and put it in exactly the same place as the native object to use strickly for alpha masking.

Anyway you can now turn down the quality pretty substantially to get the reflections and re render the rest in Vue and composite perhaps?

3DBob
01-13-2010, 11:53 AM
Yes I tried the Turn off VIEW elements and it showed in reflections in a LW object in v7 - so you say that no longer works. ok.

I want nodal shading on my LW objects

more tests needed - but we are making progress

3DBob

clagman
01-13-2010, 12:44 PM
Nodal shading works. The best thing about using Vue when it comes to LW surface shading is that LW treats Vue scenes as an HDR image so even though you are using traditional lights to illuminate your scene, you just shut off the specularity channel and get MUCH better look to everything.

3DBob
01-13-2010, 12:59 PM
Groovy.

B

nanaboso
01-13-2010, 11:53 PM
A big "Thank you" to the both of you for shearing this with the rest of us. Much appreciated.

JohnMarchant
01-14-2010, 06:00 AM
Hi, im new to Vue, I would like to create spherical environment maps with HDRI, is this possible in Vue, could anyone explain how to do this and is Vue able to create the enviroment spherical map and HDRI probe as well.

Any pointers or links to tutorials would be great, i want to import these into LW

3DBob
01-14-2010, 06:29 AM
Yes you can render to Spherical and Cube maps in HDRI and I believe it is well documented - will be doing it myself over the coming weeks when I get a chance on the VUE box.

3DBob

clagman
01-14-2010, 07:28 AM
nanaboso, thanks but its more like 99% 3DBob. JohnMarchant, ya the trick is to setup a Panoramic view/spherical render in the Render options.

3DBob this can also solve our reflection problems perhaps? Single render for all reflections and/or HDRI lighting for LW objects then render all else in Vue to composite with projection map. You probably are thinking "pretty obvious" but it just occurred to me when John posted his comment.

JohnMarchant
01-14-2010, 07:57 AM
Thanks allot everyone, ive not touched Vue in quite a while.

3DBob
01-14-2010, 08:54 AM
Yes Clagman,

That was the reason I will be doing it - will give the GI and cloud reflections reasonably accurately and the Front Projected Geometry would probably mostly sort the ground part out (will not resolve hidden face stuff - eg, if you have a post in front of a vehicle, the vehicle would need to reflect the backside of the post - not gonna see it in FP goemetry).

However, I would prefer to just be able to Hide the VUE stuff from camera and render the LW elements that needed reflection with Alpha and then just run an FP Luminous shadow pass for final comp.

VUE 8 is now useable with this process - however, I'd like to see it made a LOT simpler - as it should be.

3DBob

clagman
01-15-2010, 11:56 AM
Hey got a question. I'm trying to work out the compositing part with this technique and I am having a serious problem with shadows. Specifically the problem is if you have shadows of LW render shadows crossing the shadows of Vue renders. Since they are being composites the shadows won't blend properly. So the nightmare is...

You have a deformation animation (like a character) casting a shadow on ecosystem objects which are casting their own shadow. You really can't import the animated character into vue but if you render in LW and try to composite hmmm.

I thought ok in Vue separate the ground color pass from the ecosystems and the shadows so you can blend the LW shadow pass with the Vue shadow pass but the Vue ground color pass includes the shadows so it starts getting a lot more convoluted.

Also if you have a Vue eco object casting shadows on LW objects makes it difficult to composite without a lot of additional work. I suppose the easy answer is to not put Vue ecosystems close to LW objects but lets say for the sake of discussion that you have LW object sitting in/close to Vue forest. Since you cannot do cast shadow only on ecosystem surfaces inside xStream (only in Infinite) you end up rendering a lot of stuff twice in order to get the shadows on the LW objects. Is there a solution that I'm just missing? I wonder if you could write a paragraph or two about your compositing solution.

3DBob
01-15-2010, 12:13 PM
I guess it comes down to scene planning - make sure you plan as you say to have VUE objects not affect be affected by LW objs. OR maybe you could export key objects from Vue so that they can be used as shadow casters back in LW for you LW objects.

Ideally EON would allow MDD files so you could put LWOs in VUE for shadow casting and receiving at render time and then overlay the LWO rendered object in LW render pass - comp together with LWO alpha pass. At the moment you could do this by using VUE EXPORT3 to export your LWO animated/deformed objects as an Object sequence - however since VUE py scripts do not allow you to set ALPHA of object sequences on KEYs you have to avoid MB using this method.

3DBob

prometheus
01-18-2010, 06:05 AM
if someone missed it.

trying out vue 8 ple and exporting animated objects throu collada works
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104773&highlight=vue

I havenīt had much time to test it more thou..and I had initial problems
trying to export the scenefile with bones created in layout, might be that I missed saving or something, but creating skelegons in modeler and then
converting it and then export to works to get animated rigs in to vue 8.

and rigs are reposable.

Michael

3DBob
01-18-2010, 02:02 PM
Good tip promethus. Would be nice to load a char into Jimmy rig, add a motion or two, say walking over an exported View terrain - then save to LWS - load into LW and send to view via collada. Hey presto - LW char walking over view terrain.

Really need MDD though to transfer cached syflex animated Geometry in a simple way. I really hope they impliment it sometime.

3DBob

ghoulgirl
02-04-2010, 01:19 PM
I have been working in various ways since vue 6 - now using 8 and LW 9.6.

I used to use the vueexport plugin for porting geo - which was great, but no longer an option after vue 7.5.

back in 6 the vuesync plugin ported my camera well, but you had to use 10 as your scale.

Because our animation starts in LW, we were porting that camera with the vuesync and globally changing the scale (so things didn't end up way too big in vue) then making landscape and porting back with xstream and exported geometry for including LW object.. works fairly well, though scale is tricky and if you have an animated focal length change it won't bring that back into LW.

Oddly, after doing some tests, it would seem that if you start your scene in LW with xstream, animate, then port your camera - the 50 scale doesn't work and you have to take it back to 10 (as in vue 6)

I generally like to render the vue content out of vue, so still need duplicate geometry in LW for holdout mattes etc. The one great thing about the vueexport plugin was that I could get shadows inside vue for the geometry that would ultimately be rendered out of LW.
Another handy thing is that Fprime ignores the Vue content, so you can render the LW portion without dismantling your file in any way.

I have no idea why 50 works if just porting a camera, but 10 works if porting a camera generated in an xstream file...

any hints, for getting decent renders of the vue content out of LW?
I find it just never looks as good as the same thing rendered out of vue...

3DBob
02-04-2010, 02:44 PM
Hi There,

You can get Vue Export 3 - just ask, it is very cheap also and it helps greatly.

Spend a day with the render settings - have the wrong dials set and a LW render can take an age and look crap - with the right nobs on, then you can get some nice looking stuff. Additionally the heaviest stuff in VUE now is the new spectral cloud system - if you are not careful this adds a stupid amount of time to a render (though this is very tweakable). However, if you are not having mountains intersecting the clouds themselves, then you can render COW even a sequence of moving clouds from view to HDR and then place them as a backgorund image/sequence to illuminate the scene. This way you get lovely skys with kick *** render times.


The issue comes when you have multiple frames and can't render over the network with extreme unless you have a render server and seperately purchased render nodes. This is when rendering in vue with camera locked to allow composit of moving animation with LW renders really helps.

There is still the issue with FOV changes, but I guess it comes down to scene planning.

For those following this thread - here is a downressed animation (WIP). After the sky and tents we rendered in VUE, the scene was constructed thus:-

- Mountains sky on backgorund plate
- Front projection on Foreground including tents
- Flags, Depth desaturation, DOF all rendered in FPrime with G2 providing Luminous shadow darkening and Film grain.

This gave stupid fast render times. 300 frames overnight at 1920X1080 25FPS on 1 2.6Ghz Octo core.

81817

3DBob

ghoulgirl
02-04-2010, 03:03 PM
I have the vueexport 3 - I thought He gave up on it at 7.4 - does it work with 8? (I haven't tried it)

I have noticed a significant slow down with clouds in 8 in general.
I am finding I get better results (taking render times into consideration) with positioning metaclouds instead. I generally can't deal with hours per frame for clouds, and a bunch of metaclouds often do the trick for more complex cloudscapes.

For the most part what I find is just that the vue content renders out of LW with too much light. The vue native render looks great - but the xstream LW render is blown out and "glowy"

I gave up ages ago and just render my vue out of vue and comp back together. Though I would love to know how to get a decent vue terrain render out of LW.

Thinking about going the rendernode route - Assuming I can still use the hyper-view and my bundle of rendercows when I prefer to...

Also, any ideas on if there is a way to store multiple sync files for cameras in one vue file? Or are you limited to 1?
We had a multi camera/angle set-up with several tracked cameras - they were all sitting in LW - A single enviroment was built and we wanted to bring all the camera in, instead of doing it by loading one at a time - for ease of checking continuity etc...
But it seems I can have multiple cameras in vue, but only one sync file?

clagman
02-04-2010, 03:12 PM
Yep I use somthing close to that. I'm really looking to get that vue plug to transfer objects so I can do the shadow bit. Right now I am rendering out a bit of the vue terrain/Eco in LW to facilitate shadows and the rest of the environment in vue. This let's me animate objects that cast shadows on ecosystem objects (and have shadows cast on them by Eco objects).

Render times are acceptable, but these 5500 Xeons are quite the monsters! I don't seem to be having any problem with the vuesynch plug. Handles zoom/focal length animation fine it seems. I have to set the scale to 32.8 though (strange).

3DBob
02-04-2010, 03:20 PM
VE3 works with 8 - use it every day.

3DBob

ghoulgirl
02-04-2010, 03:22 PM
cool! i feel like a jerk :) teaches me to not just assume something doesn't work.

3DBob
02-04-2010, 03:32 PM
mind you I got mine recently

And what I need it for it does.

3DBob

Kolin
02-06-2010, 10:29 PM
Anybody know how to do a front projection map on the Vue geometry? If I export out of vue the size and position is not the same. Ive tried save transformed with xstream open and that doesnt work either. I just want to strip the vue connection out of the scene and then front map a render I made in Vue. Sorry if there is a well known or obvious answer.

Thanks!

ghoulgirl
02-08-2010, 05:41 PM
There was talk of skylight in here somewhere.. Anyone know if that is the same as Sunsky?

clagman
02-08-2010, 08:14 PM
Skylight is a volumetric plugin that creates sky colors based on the "sun" direction(thanks Dennis). I brought it up because it's much cheaper than using volumetric radiosity. Dunno about sunsky but it sounds similar.

jrandom
03-19-2010, 06:44 PM
I've just discovered that Lightwave's adaptive anti-aliasing works on Vue terrains when using xStream. This is Really Cool, especially considering that when you render in Vue directly you have to crank the AA settings ridiculously high (greatly slowing down renders) to get rid of pixelation.

clagman
03-19-2010, 07:56 PM
Yes it does. AA is super slow rendering Vue stuff anyway especially ecosystems. It does help though.

jrandom
04-03-2010, 09:08 PM
Nodal shading works. The best thing about using Vue when it comes to LW surface shading is that LW treats Vue scenes as an HDR image so even though you are using traditional lights to illuminate your scene, you just shut off the specularity channel and get MUCH better look to everything.

I'm using Vue xStream and have noticed that the atmosphere doesn't appear to apply any light to lightwave objects when rendered in lightwave? (eg. I'm only getting direct light on lightwave objects) Is it supposed to? Kinda defeats the point if a Vue atmosphere doesn't add any light into a radiosity-rendered scene in Lightwave...

clagman
04-04-2010, 01:25 PM
Unfortunately if you want LW to do this then you must enable volumetric radiosity ugghh. There are very good workarounds for this though (because volumetrc
rad is very expensive and noisy). My personal fav is to use skylight to generate radiosity then render the sky in vue after transfering camera motion OR, render sky in LW with black background in compositing (or it will add to the skylight color and make it super bright).

Hopefully one of those will work for ya.