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zardoz
10-16-2009, 03:46 AM
:mad::devil: so this is a grunt.
I love it when you send some render to a client and they say it doesn't have enough 'dpis'...I just love it. They don't even care if it is 7000x7000 or the 600 Mbs file size. It just doesn't have enough resolution, because...well because I forget to give it the '300 dpi' TAG! I like to call it a tag because for me it's just a tag. And these a**holes open the file in photoshop , and it says 72dpi and they run to call me to say the freakin 7K image doesn't have enough resolution or 'dpis' like they say.
This happens every day! So usually I say it's going to take a few hours to fix it, and I open the same image I sent them, change the tag from 72 to 300dpi and resend the file. And everything is perfect now. Amazing. They can't even understand they're looking at the same file, same image!
Yesterday I decided to do a new trick, I sent them a 2000x2000 render with the dpi tag at 600. They needed a render that would be around 16cm at 300dpi. But I decided to send it with the 600dpi tag just to see what they were going to say (and when I say 'they' I'm talking about the local branch of an international advertising company, but could be talking about any other one because I work for several ones and this always happens).
So these brainiacs as soon as they open the renders in photoshop "how my god, this is too big lets change this from 600dpi to 300dpi" and if you don't keep the percentage at 100% in the resize screen it will resize your image to half in this case, so from the 2000 they get a 1000x1000 image. And now the resolution isn't enough! that's what they said! lol because now it was only 8cm tall! I have to say now that these renders were to be incorporated in other documents, so they could simply drag them inside the layout they already have and everything would be fine, but no. They first have to convert it to the 'correct' dpi resolution! AARRGGHHH

I've noticed that people who use illustrator/photoshop and macs tend to make this mistake...nothing against macs, I don't want to start a war. I had an amiga for ages and loved and still love macs, ok? I guess they never saw a pixel in their life, they think a digital image is made out of what?

How can I explain the dpi thing to these guys so this never happens again?

sorry for sounding a bit harsh but this is really annoying.

Matt
10-16-2009, 04:09 AM
Forget it, I tried to explain DPI to some people here at work, I did a fly by on them.

cresshead
10-16-2009, 04:09 AM
yup...had this loads of times...to note some people are 'mac operators' not designers or are so buried in 'print' they don't see 'pixels' but just the dpi 'thing' [dots per inch]
maybe if adobe changed photoshop to ppi [pixelss per inch] they'd educate some of their users!

Lightwolf
10-16-2009, 04:38 AM
I tried to explain DPI to print specialists way to often to spend any more time on it.
And yes, most of them don't get it. For more fun add LPI and PPI into the mix :D

Cheers,
Mike

littlewaves
10-16-2009, 04:39 AM
How can I explain the dpi thing to these guys so this never happens again?

Who you gonna explain it to? one of the countless people you're going to come across whose job is simply to open a file and check a few things on a list they've been given by their boss?

Yeah I know it's annoying that not everyone is a genius like us guys but that's life baby!

Just make yourself a checklist and put "tag images as 300dpi" on it.:)

You'll save yourself some grief and hassle when you're up against a tight deadline and the next new guy at the printers says "Well I couldn't print it out because it was 72dpi and my boss told me everything has to be 300"

I send stuff to print everyday (prepress for a CD manufacturer) and I have a very simple policy. "be F'ing anal"

zardoz
10-16-2009, 04:51 AM
lol you're right, littlewaves! that's what we do most of the time. We just say "we'll fix that" and resend the same file at 300dpi (the only dpi they know).
But when they say you're wrong and that you don't know anything about this....aaaaaahhhhgggg! One of these days I'm going to send them a 7000x7000 render at 1dpi...I guess their mind will implode or something.

Some time ago I was doing an ad for this agency and they were there 'helping me' with the colors. You could read in photoshop that the file was 6000x8000 at 72dpi. And one of them (some minutes before he gave me a card saying 'tv producer' lol) told me that it was wrong and should be at 300 dpi...I said ok and changed it. Then he said "I understand why it was wrong, because you're more used to work for tv and as you know it's 150dpi"!!! lol I just opened my eyes and didn't say anything. And this dude certainly makes more money in a month than me in ...well a lot more time.
How can someone who works for tv says something like this!? 150 dpi for tv its what? for HD now? wasn't it 72dpi for them before? how can they talk about dpi and computer screens at the same time?...ah well

Matt
10-16-2009, 04:59 AM
Speaking of people not knowing, I once had one of my bosses jaw hit the floor when he saw me use the Clone tool in Photoshop for the first time, he wasn't like "Wait, what, how did you do that!"

I said with a wry smile, "It's magic!"

biliousfrog
10-16-2009, 05:17 AM
I worked as an artworker for the UK's largest independently-owned regional media business, we were producing 18 local newspapers a week and the office I worked in had around 40 people just setting and creating the ads. You'd expect someone there to know a little bit about working for print but it was astounding how messed up their knowledge was...mostly because they only had managers with degrees and if you didn't have a degree you couldn't be anything more than an ad setter or artworker. What they had was a company full of extremely experienced workers being told what to do by kids straight out of university...so the experienced people leave and idiots replace them.

One of the things that sticks in my memory is having to regularly switch between gamma settings for different jobs and having one of the managers regularly measuring ads on the screens with a ruler. They also had everything assigned to macros, actions and shortcuts so that people didn't know what they were doing half the time...just running scripts.

[EDIT] BTW I'm not saying that people with degrees are idiots, just that it isn't an ideal indication of 'good management material'

archijam
10-16-2009, 05:24 AM
Mike once posted this article on the subject:

http://www.scantips.com/no72dpi.html

send them that :thumbsup:

zardoz
10-16-2009, 05:26 AM
I was just reading that. pretty good

Captain Obvious
10-16-2009, 05:32 AM
If you really want to torment yourself, try to explain linear workflow at the same time.

dmack
10-16-2009, 05:51 AM
Aha! Don't get me started on the DPI thing! Drives me nuts! I'll have the image at 72dpi please....:bangwall:

dmack
10-16-2009, 05:52 AM
...and I'm currently doing an image on High Blood Pressure...oooh, the irony! :D

SBowie
10-16-2009, 05:55 AM
BTW I'm not saying that people with degrees are idiots, just that it isn't an ideal indication of 'good management material'"...the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding..." - Eccl.9:11

They're hardly to be blamed, sadly, as colleges are stuffed with teachers propagating this nonsense, cranking out new pixel-challenged sheep by the score.

JBT27
10-16-2009, 05:59 AM
The vicious truth being that a huge number of people are not qualified to work in many parts of the media industry, whether print or vfx or whatever ..... or on the other hand perhaps it also says that you don't need to be that smart to hold down jobs in the industry, at certain levels anyway.

We were chatting with some government business advisor last week, and bemoaning the fact that it is very difficult to get noticed for local authority projects. He confirmed something I'd suspected for ages, having sat in on presentations and discussions - that the 'smart' people, the ones who know what they're doing and can deliver on what they offer, are a real threat to the vast majority of management in local government, who can do little but talk about doing something.

The minute you hire people like all of us, the job is understood and gets done - no more talking, no more discussion groups, no more managers and their consultants (of which there are hordes) .....

The smart thing is figuring that you don't need to be that smart :D

Julian.

cresshead
10-16-2009, 06:05 AM
dots are for 'dotty' people!

JonW
10-16-2009, 06:07 AM
Just make the images 30000 dpi & when they cut them down to 300 dpi they will virtually vanish & really confuse them.



They are 30000 dpi so file is a more compact size on the HD!

cresshead
10-16-2009, 06:49 AM
i'd go make a short youtube video clip and when you 'get the call' just point them to the video...i'd also make the vid VERY simplistic so once they watched it they'd kick themselves with just how thick they looked!...
just add the 'Matt' tag line at the end 'see...magic!'

kyuzo
10-16-2009, 06:59 AM
I've pretty much given up on explaining the whole dpi/image size to people as well.
Though thinking abaout it again, I'm sure it could be explained to people in a Father Ted kinda way...

Father Ted is demonstrating some plastic toy cows to Dougal.
Father Ted: ...OK, one last time. These are small... but the ones out there are far away. Small... far away...

Lamont
10-16-2009, 07:00 AM
Oh I am so glad this wasn't a thread about "My client wanted a 6 inch image at 300 DPI... where is the DPI settings?".

I tried to tell someone this. They didn't get it. And they work in VFX.

biliousfrog
10-16-2009, 07:02 AM
Draw dots on a balloon...300 dots per inch...blow up balloon....150 dots per inch....blow up further....1 dot per inch....how many dots on the balloon at the start and how many at the end?

cresshead
10-16-2009, 07:11 AM
Draw dots on a balloon...300 dots per inch...blow up balloon....150 dots per inch....blow up further....1 dot per inch....how many dots on the balloon at the start and how many at the end?
"but we don't have the balloon plugn here" 8~

to muddy the waters abit more...how many times do you have to ask a client to just paste in the text in an email rather than attaching a word doc [many designers do not use/have office/word ]
i ruddy hate the office apps espcially W.O.R.D...they are dumfounded at the prospect..

thicky:
what do you 'mean'? paste into an email?
i have put the the word document for you with the email....!

me:
...no miss, just select the text in the word doc and then copy it....
make a NEW email and paste the text into it...

thicky:
sorry i don't understand, what... pasting into an email?...can you do that?
i thought that was just for word.

me:
no matter i'll get a word viewer and do it..not a problem!

Nangleator
10-16-2009, 07:25 AM
"Oh, for the trade show graphics, you can get all the pictures off our website!"

Lamont
10-16-2009, 07:25 AM
I've asked them to copy and paste so many damn times. "It's just a Word Doc.."... I DON'T HAVE WORD!!!

"Oh, for the trade show graphics, you can get all the pictures off our website!"You just ruined my night.

Nangleator
10-16-2009, 07:31 AM
Me: I need an EPS of the logo. Make sure you say EPS. Get it from their designer. No, I know you can't open it. I still need it. What do you mean, the other manager deleted it from the e-mail? No! I don't want the thumbnail JPG, I want the EPS. I know he couldn't open it! I can, and I need it! Please give me the other designer's e-mail address, please!

bjornkn
10-16-2009, 07:32 AM
LOL
It looks like we all share the same experiences with ignorant clients and friends?
BTW, it is even worse when they publish a perfectly usable DWG into a PDF to send you, or send you images pasted into a word or Powerpoint document (or pdf).
It is amazing how many people that know so little about what they're doing, even if they work with a computer every day.

kyuzo
10-16-2009, 07:35 AM
"how many times do you have to ask a client to just paste in the text in an email rather than attaching a word doc "

- Oh yeah. We get people creating word documents just to put a jpeg in them. I find it hard to remain tactful when I just want to shout down the phone "We can't get the pictures OUT of the document, just email the f****** jpeg!"

sigh.

Once I had to talk a lady through e-mailing a picture to us. Turned out, she only had the hardcopy. I had to talk her through plugging in her scanner, scanning the damn thing, saving it to her desktop, and attaching it to her e-mail.
What I thought would be a five minute call took 45 minutes...

JonW
10-16-2009, 07:38 AM
We have to have a 300 dpi file for a 50 metre bill board!

SBowie
10-16-2009, 07:38 AM
Draw dots on a balloon...300 dots per inch...blow up balloon....When they insist "video is 72 dpi", create a white 72 pixel square filled-rectangle centered on a black 1920x1080 background. Save it as a 72 dpi image. Ask them have their editor (since they won't know how to do it themselves) display it on a 24" monitor, and then a 60" plasma screen. Ask them to use a ruler to show you that the white box measures 1" x 1" on both screens. :)

Or just bang your head against the wall, since they still won't get it ...

biliousfrog
10-16-2009, 07:48 AM
I'm fine with word documents as long as it's just text, I've got Open Office installed for that very purpose - it's easier....I do have a problem with powerpoint documents. I've had several clients that insist on sending documents as powerpoint slides...actually saving a bunch of images and text as slides within a powerpoint file, presumably because it's more 'high-tech'.

JonW
10-16-2009, 08:34 AM
Diverging....

Client: I have a really good 10 x zoom lens & the camera does really nice JPG images!


I would prefer to use my own equipment.

Later in the job....... Wow what lens did you use to get such a good image?

This tiny little 50 mm fixed focal length lens!

Titus
10-16-2009, 08:44 AM
:mad::devil: so this is a grunt.
I love it when you send some render to a client and they say it doesn't have enough 'dpis'...I just love it.

It also happens to me, ha ha! I've a shortfilm at the festival circuit, and every time I submit it they require a "300 dpi" image, that's it, no inches or centimeters as the other variable.

biliousfrog
10-16-2009, 08:44 AM
Diverging....

Client: I have a really good 10 x zoom lens & the camera does really nice JPG images!



READ: I have got my first camera phone and desperate to use it

probiner
10-16-2009, 09:20 AM
lol you're right, littlewaves! that's what we do most of the time. We just say "we'll fix that" and resend the same file at 300dpi (the only dpi they know).

LOL zardoz you sound like those car mechanics. Simple thing to fix "Oh boy, thats going to take a while" Sending them the wrong DPI is so wicked *hrgiger avatar*


Speaking of people not knowing, I once had one of my bosses jaw hit the floor when he saw me use the Clone tool in Photoshop for the first time, he wasn't like "Wait, what, how did you do that!"

I said with a wry smile, "It's magic!"

LOL, thats sounds like my animation teacher :D simple stuff like docking a panel: "wait wait what did you with that? Oh well, nevermind, lets continue this evaluation"

Difficulty with understanding the inverse proportion in DPI = Pixels/Document Size, is because in Photoshop the pixels change when you change the DPI or Document Size, so it doesn't look like a constant when you simply want to Resample an image.


Well i know this girl that lives for photography and sometimes i ask her to send me over MSN her latest works. She haven't discoverd yet the "Save for the Web" option. So she sends me a 200mb PSD file over MSN. But well we all have been there. The thing i understand zardoz in one point: Many times we try explain things to ppl so they can do better, and work better with others, but they don't any predisposition for that and sometimes they make things look like you're the one it's wrong.

Cheers

*Pete*
10-16-2009, 09:27 AM
I got a call just yesterday from a client who is VERY professional with photoshop, asking me to re-render some images (1400*1400) from 72 dpi to 300 dpi.

this seems to be a frequently occuring problem...what do you guys usually tell your clients in these situations?
do you just silently accept it and resend the same image at 300 dpi pretending to actually have done something, or do you just tell them to change it at photoshop (if they have it)?

Nangleator
10-16-2009, 09:32 AM
It's no sin to have your clients dependent on you!

jasonwestmas
10-16-2009, 09:37 AM
It also happens to me, ha ha! I've a shortfilm at the festival circuit, and every time I submit it they require a "300 dpi" image, that's it, no inches or centimeters as the other variable.

I guess they want to print out a flip book of your film? HA,HA.

jasonwestmas
10-16-2009, 09:42 AM
I got a call just yesterday from a client who is VERY professional with photoshop, asking me to re-render some images (1400*1400) from 72 dpi to 300 dpi.

this seems to be a frequently occuring problem...what do you guys usually tell your clients in these situations?
do you just silently accept it and resend the same image at 300 dpi pretending to actually have done something, or do you just tell them to change it at photoshop (if they have it)?

I had a client who got flustered that she had to search for the object file that was in the same folder as the scene from within lightwave 7. Her directory was different from mine of course so this is bound to happen accasionally. I changed the file directory and resent it. I guess it's a difficult thing to add the object file to the scene again and re-save the new directory.:)

SBowie
10-16-2009, 09:59 AM
do you just silently accept it and resend the same image at 300 dpi pretending to actually have done something, or do you just tell them to change it at photoshop (if they have it)?What I'd like to do is change the setting, idle away a day or so, then charge them for 're-rendering'. After all, they should have been specific if they really 'must have 300 dpi and nothing else will do'. ;)

biliousfrog
10-16-2009, 10:01 AM
It's no sin to have your clients dependent on you!

Give the client a fish and he'll keep coming back, teach the client to fish and you won't have a client...or something like that :D

*Pete*
10-16-2009, 10:31 AM
Give the client a fish and he'll keep coming back, teach the client to fish and you won't have a client...or something like that :D


so, we then agree to keep the dpi thing as an industry secret?

:D

Nangleator
10-16-2009, 10:34 AM
Heh. Top secret, and we keep it that way by shutting up, or by telling them over and over again!

Chris S. (Fez)
10-16-2009, 10:51 AM
Nice to see I have company in PDI hell.

zardoz
10-16-2009, 12:12 PM
since a few years that most of the time I just change the dpi tag in photoshop and resend the same file some hours later...
but this happens so many times that I felt the need to come here and share this with everyone here.
when they say you're stupid because "you've been doing this for so long and you still don't know it has to be rendered at 300dpi??" and they have in front of them a 5k or more image...man, it's hard to stay quiet.

Chris S. (Fez)
10-16-2009, 12:38 PM
when they say you're stupid because "you've been doing this for so long and you still don't know it has to be rendered at 300dpi??" and they have in front of them a 5k or more image...man, it's hard to stay quiet.

Agreed...but bruised egos are bad for business. I know you don't need this advice Zardoz but for folks starting out: I recommend you simply say something like "sorry for the confusion" (courteous but evasive in terms of admitting any fault) and resend the file.

art
10-16-2009, 12:50 PM
Ideally, it should be sufficient to tell them that dpi measures density and not the size. They are related but not the same and the (simple) relation is usually what people don't understand.

Chris S. (Fez)
10-16-2009, 01:06 PM
Ideally, it should be sufficient to tell them that dpi measures density and not the size. They are related but not the same and the (simple) relation is usually what people don't understand.

Absolutely. But I would rather take 15 seconds to resend the file then take untold minutes to encourage someone to unlearn a concept that seems, on conservative estimation, incorrectly hardcoded into 75% of the human race.

Telling someone DPI does not mean what they think it means, no matter how diplomatically, is like telling certain religious groups there is no God. They might kill the messenger.

SBowie
10-16-2009, 01:06 PM
You fool! You have filled my gas tank with litres of gasoline. You must siphon it out, and install gallons immediately!

Chris S. (Fez)
10-16-2009, 01:37 PM
:bowdown:
You fool! You have filled my gas tank with litres of gasoline. You must siphon it out, and install gallons immediately!

:bowdown:

*Pete*
10-16-2009, 01:57 PM
You fool! You have filled my gas tank with litres of gasoline. You must siphon it out, and install gallons immediately!

perfect :D

zardoz
10-16-2009, 04:15 PM
lol
and Chris S. (Fez) you are abolutely right. we are so tired of explaining the thing to them that usually that's what we do. This only happens when we forget to set the thing in photoshop with the 300 dpi tag. What usually happens is that we say something like "ok, we'll render it again" and everything is ok.
even when they get a file on a dvd that has hundreds of megabytes of size and they don't even think about it. "if this is so big maybe it has enough resolution..., it was necessary for a guy in a motorbike to bring this dvd to us, with this huge file, and these donkeys (that's how we call dumb people around here) send the file without enough resolution...". I'm going to start to call them sherlock and watson...even then we call the motorbike guy to take them the same file only with the right dpi tag. This has happened several times in the last 5 or 6 years.

and art (by the way thanks for your plugins) explaining them that dpi is a density it's not enough...we've tried that a few times. Maybe one day they'll see the light.

probiner
10-16-2009, 05:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zLwjQLrwn8&feature=related
i know you not going to send them, ehehe. But good luck. This type of issues sometimes feel stupid, since they are simple of resulution, but simply it's not in your hard to educate ppl. And they can feel ofended =)

Cheers

nemac4
10-16-2009, 05:43 PM
I've run into similar issues with SD and HD television resolutions regarding dvds. Clients want to play standard dvds to hd displays and they don't understand why it doesn't look sharp on a 1080p 50" tv.:oye:

Matt
10-16-2009, 06:13 PM
Speaking of clients, DPI, print, graphic design etc.

This made me laugh! (Contains swearing)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfprIxNfCjk

caesar
10-16-2009, 06:19 PM
This DPI thing is quite simple (well, thats must be the reason why those "brainiacs" (lol) think they undertand it!)

1- 300 dpi is a requirement for printing, if lower itīll pixelate (ie look like crap)

2-The Photoshop Image\Image Size is the key = turn on Constrain proportions and play!

3-In the picture attached, I give an example= I resized a photoshop document based in A4 paper size (21x29,7 cm\8,26x11,69 in) from 72 dpi to 300 dpi, what gives an image from 595x842 pixels (1,43 MB) to 2479x3508 (24,9 MB). (Not counting the bleeding size some printers needs:thumbsup:)

4- [email protected][email protected] duh!

5-Based on the example, 7000x7000 would give more than two pages of a magazine at 300 dpi! Tell em to measure the paper size with the pixels!:bday:

Mike_RB
10-16-2009, 06:31 PM
Someone needs to dig up the thread here where someone was convinced the 72dpi actually meant something for 486 D1 NTSC.... Sigh... I remember it was me and Mr. Wolf (I think) trying to deal with that one...

nemac4
10-16-2009, 06:40 PM
Speaking of clients, DPI, print, graphic design etc.

This made me laugh! (Contains swearing)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfprIxNfCjk

Funny and offensive! I watched it 3 times. Lol

SBowie
10-16-2009, 06:49 PM
Someone needs to dig up the thread here where someone was convinced the 72dpi actually meant something for 486 D1 NTSC....I've heard it said that the myth traces its roots back to those ancient Macs with a built in monitor that was 10 inches wide ... 720 pixels divided by 10" = 72 dpi. If so, it was true, once, briefly, long ago.

Intuition
10-16-2009, 07:17 PM
Just tell them to RAM the hardrive into the gigabytes.

They will be in such awe of your technical prowess and L337 speak that they will never question you again.

Unless of course, you forget to deliver the file at 300dpi. Then well, I guess you'll have to deal with it.

Silkrooster
10-16-2009, 10:09 PM
Just tell them to RAM the hardrive into the gigabytes.

They will be in such awe of your technical prowess and L337 speak that they will never question you again.

Unless of course, you forget to deliver the file at 300dpi. Then well, I guess you'll have to deal with it.

Believe me I have run across people who thing the hard drive is the ram. Oh a better one, they want the icons removed off the screen so the computer will run faster. They don't care if you uninstall anything or not.

For the DPI/PPI issue I usually tell people it is a multiplier for a math formula used to determine the size it will be printed at.:D

Nicolas Jordan
10-16-2009, 10:33 PM
Never mind the 300dpi thing, we have come across people that layout magazines for print who don't even understand image ratio and think they need the actual image in order to layout the magazine page and don't realize that they can layout the magazine ahead of time if they know the ratio of the images. Would help if they understood what a ratio was to begin with though. :twak:

archijam
10-17-2009, 02:59 AM
Perhaps we now have the means to describe it:

Use the digital camera example. You choose a size, which is pixels. dpi does not exist. I am always surprised by the cameras these guys own.

Dpi is as real as any 'exif' data - it's just a tag, which some programs see.

Edit: I'm just as surprised by tgese sites that explain it.. Why does it always take 1000 words?

glebe digital
10-17-2009, 04:00 AM
lol
and Chris S. (Fez) you are abolutely right. we are so tired of explaining the thing to them that usually that's what we do. This only happens when we forget to set the thing in photoshop with the 300 dpi tag. What usually happens is that we say something like "ok, we'll render it again" and everything is ok.
even when they get a file on a dvd that has hundreds of megabytes of size and they don't even think about it. "if this is so big maybe it has enough resolution..., it was necessary for a guy in a motorbike to bring this dvd to us, with this huge file, and these donkeys (that's how we call dumb people around here) send the file without enough resolution...". I'm going to start to call them sherlock and watson...even then we call the motorbike guy to take them the same file only with the right dpi tag. This has happened several times in the last 5 or 6 years.


I feel your pain!....but remeber these are 'your clients' and you don't want to bite the hand that feeds you.
They may be a tad fuzzy on the origins & understanding of dpi v pixels but they may be able to use a web-browser and read webpages......I would never write a post calling a client a donkey. :)

Lightwolf
10-17-2009, 04:06 AM
Someone needs to dig up the thread here where someone was convinced the 72dpi actually meant something for 486 D1 NTSC.... Sigh... I remember it was me and Mr. Wolf (I think) trying to deal with that one...
Wasn't that on the lux forums? :D

I actually always try to educate my customers... and some are actually quite grateful for it (and some will never learn ;) ).

Cheers,
Mike

OnlineRender
10-17-2009, 06:03 AM
Better one than that , my wife is not a stupid person by any stretch of the imagination , infact she's very very very clever ,unlike me :) .

...but I was watching a Kurv Live Webinar last week and this is what she said ..

" Do you have to do that now ? can't you just catch it later on BBCi Player "

at that point I cried .........................

Mike_RB
10-17-2009, 07:10 AM
Here is the 72dpi thread from the Lux forums:

http://forums.luxology.com/discussion/topic.aspx?id=23420&show=72dpi%20ntsc&page=0

It's funny to read now as Bob Rhines (rrhines) has removed all his nonsense ranting about 72dpi=d1ntsc. You get a taste of what we said in the quoted replys... but man that was an entertaining thread...

zardoz
10-17-2009, 08:32 AM
glebe digital, don't worry about them reading this, they don't even know what lightwave is. By the way, they already called me worse names so I don't really worry much about that.
And 100% of the time, 'they' are not the client, they are just the designer/creative person behind the concept...who usually think of me as the technician...so when we talk about respect, you bet I respect them more then they do me. And all of them (the ones I met so far, except one actually) are not very tolerant when we try to explain them things. For years we ask them for the textures, and other art for the project, and we give them our rules, and every single project the files they send us are always the same mess of illustrator files with cmyk, rgb, and even pantones all mixed in the same layout, and this is the least worse of what comes from them. So I guess this 'situation' is going to last for some more time.
cheers

glebe digital
10-17-2009, 09:09 AM
Wow......some serious lack of respect, I hope the hourly rate is worth all the trouble!

:D

http://s3.amazonaws.com/freelanceswitch/articles/ff_111/FF111_ClientScreening.jpg

zapper1998
10-17-2009, 09:48 AM
I have sent a few images to a clients ....
... same thing... happens all the time ...
after thinking about it, I decided to add a Title Page of sorts ...

...Next set of images I sent, the first one said,




"Read First Before You Begin Please"
"The Image is set at 300 dpi as you requested"
"End Transmission"

And it appears to work 80% of the time...

Michael

danielkaiser
10-17-2009, 12:17 PM
From 1980 to 1995 I worked in publishing, 7 of those years was with the Orange County Register in California. what you need to understand is that when you place an image into a layout app. like Indesign, Quark or any number of turnkey publishing systems the dpi settings in the meta tag is very important. if you place a 72dpi image in a place that calls for a 4in x 6in image at 300 dpi, you'll end up with an image on screen that looks 4 times larger than you want, now you can scale it down, but the app. will still see it as a 72 dpi image and this will cause problems.

The next step is to run the file through a Preflight (http://www.markzware.com/) program this will tell you that the image is the wrong dpi for the settings called for in the in the layout files meta tag and will tell you that it has to be fixed.

The filnal step before it goes to press is to send it to a rasterizing engine, this also looks for the dpi settings in the meta tag and when sent to an Image Setter or in some cases direct to press and the final outcome will look like poop. The rasterizer has no user input at this point and is an automated process and can only work with what's provided, the Text and Graphics may print at 300 on the same page, but an image at 72 will only print at 72.

This is much more complected than sending an image to your Desktop Printer.

BTW the link provided is for a company owned by a friend of mine and is not intended as an advertisement. ;)

allabulle
10-17-2009, 12:50 PM
You fool! You have filled my gas tank with litres of gasoline. You must siphon it out, and install gallons immediately!

Brilliant!

A client of mine, using a Mac, Freehand and Quark used to argue so often about his imaginary problems (DPI was just one of them) that I ended up repeating in my mind this sentence of The Matrix: "we need guns, lots of guns" with the creepiest assassin face I can possibly have.

Since then, each time some client asks me this kind of stupid mystic rubbish I hear a voice deep inside me that says, in the dark, "guns, lots of guns."

I also send always "300dpi images" even if they didn't ask for it. Later on someone else's imagination generates the DPI panic again.

SBowie
10-18-2009, 06:22 AM
This is much more complected than sending an image to your Desktop Printer.Certainly - but does the convenience, even necessity, of supplying a 300dpi image at that stage really excuse someone who calls himself a professional from knowing that:

the image is actually just fine for its intended use in terms of available data and quality, that one teeny factor aside
changing it from 72 dpi to 300 does not require the use of a motorcycle, courier, etc.
can be easily performed in seconds by anyone with half a wit using any number of applications they likely have on hand
and that for him to verbally abuse the person who created the image over it simply exposes a ridiculous lack of fundamental understanding and skill on his own part?


Sure, it behooves the supplier to make the customer happy and and save the client this little step as a routine matter ... but rants and downright silly justifications often heard are dramatically overstated and do, I think, reflect sadly on those making them.


I ended up repeating in my mind this sentence of The Matrix: "we need guns, lots of guns" with the creepiest assassin face I can possibly have.Whereas I lean to Jack Bauer ... "I'm going to need a hacksaw." :)

Titus
10-18-2009, 09:05 AM
So this guys calls because they need images for an article, two images at full page 42cms at 300dpi, when the magazine comes out what I found is two tiny pics (right upper corner). WTF?

Captain Obvious
10-18-2009, 12:53 PM
"Oh, for the trade show graphics, you can get all the pictures off our website!"
Some companies actually have downloadable vector or high-res lossless graphics available to download, for press purposes. So the "get it off the website" is not always so bad.

Ernest
10-18-2009, 03:40 PM
Here is the 72dpi thread from the Lux forums:

http://forums.luxology.com/discussion/topic.aspx?id=23420&show=72dpi%20ntsc&page=0

It's funny to read now as Bob Rhines (rrhines) has removed all his nonsense ranting about 72dpi=d1ntsc. You get a taste of what we said in the quoted replys... but man that was an entertaining thread...So the closing argument of that whole discussion concluded, quite authoritatively, that PAL has fields and that the presence of fields limits the maximum dpi to 72, regardless of the screen size.

Hieron
10-18-2009, 04:08 PM
"mr Hastings:
rrhines, do you think we should change modo's default DPI from 300 to 72? I can change it right now... "

hehehe... nice one :)


edit: ow they really do have that option... odd

robk
10-18-2009, 10:53 PM
I had a great one a few month's ago. It was a call from a magazine publisher that was trying to mock up an AD for one of my clients (I think he was trying to pre sell my client). Anyways I told him I would not give him the rendered image until my client said it was okay. I told him the render was a 2 to 1 ratio and he could mock up his AD with a placeholder. He honestly could not understand what I meant by a 2 to 1 ratio. Then I told him the image was 5000 pixels x 2500 pixels. He still could not comprehend this. In one part of our conversation he told me he used to be an civil engineer. Yet he still said he could not understand the technical terms I was using.
The worst was an AD agency in Toronto saying they needed a 300 DPI image for a outdoor sign and the sign would be 12 feet x 8 feet.(something that people would drive by on a highway) so that means a 12x12x300=43200 pixel x 8x12x300=28800 pixel image. I used a image editing program to scale up my 9000x6000 image. I sent the image to them on a DVD. I hope they choked on it. The 300 dpi syndrome strikes again.

I was told by the printers I use that most billboards are printed anywhere between 6 and 100 dpi.

zardoz
10-19-2009, 02:38 AM
robk, yep same around here. Bigger doesn't mean better! lol I had to say this.

usually for print we go to 6000 pixels maximum (this weekend I rendered a 11000 pixel image but I had the time to do it) in a normal schedule. And if they want more then we let photo zoom do the magic. lol great scaling algorythms. amazing software, worth every cent.

Matt
10-19-2009, 04:53 AM
Maybe I should do a tutorial video for YouTube, and you can all sent your clients there to 'get it'?

zardoz
10-19-2009, 05:09 AM
lol that's a great idea...I wish they would see it or were humble enough to see it

lwaddict
10-19-2009, 09:17 AM
I work with an engineer who works at another site for our company.
He designs project parts.
I often animate project instructions.
He works in SolidWorks.
I use Lightwave a lot or whatever will do the job.

Typical request from me to him (we've had this conversation repeatedly for years now).

Me: Can you send me an OBJ file of that medical device?

He: I use SolidWorks, but I can export to CAD if you want.

Me: We'd done this before. Can you just export to OBJ and send to me?

He: You know, these work well in Max.

Me: You've tried this?

He: No. What kind of file did you need?

Me: OBJ

He: What were you going to use this for?

Me: Same thing I always do. I'm going to animate it.

He: SolidWorks won't animate or at least I don't know how do to that.

Me: I'm going to animate it, don't worry about it.

He: Ok.

Me: Can you export the OBJ and send to me?

He: What filetype?


This...
IS...
and engineer.

Gotta love movie lines like:
Goldblum, "Oh my, we're in the hands of engineers"

and don't get me started on our conversations regarding dpi...
not just with him but with outside advertising agencies.
That's when the real Abbott and Costello come out to play.

Nangleator
10-19-2009, 09:26 AM
Ah, yes. The CAD engineer that doesn't seem to believe other types of software exist...

"No, I don't want a 2 dimensional projection of the part!"

I've had to stand right beside them and actually push the mouse to see what saving/exporting options were available.

allabulle
10-19-2009, 09:53 AM
I work with an engineer who works at another site for our company.
He designs project parts.
I often animate project instructions.
He works in SolidWorks.
I use Lightwave a lot or whatever will do the job.

Typical request from me to him (we've had this conversation repeatedly for years now).

Me: Can you send me an OBJ file of that medical device?

He: I use SolidWorks, but I can export to CAD if you want.

Me: We'd done this before. Can you just export to OBJ and send to me?

He: You know, these work well in Max.

Me: You've tried this?

He: No. What kind of file did you need?

Me: OBJ

He: What were you going to use this for?

Me: Same thing I always do. I'm going to animate it.

He: SolidWorks won't animate or at least I don't know how do to that.

Me: I'm going to animate it, don't worry about it.

He: Ok.

Me: Can you export the OBJ and send to me?

He: What filetype?


This...
IS...
and engineer.

Gotta love movie lines like:
Goldblum, "Oh my, we're in the hands of engineers"

and don't get me started on our conversations regarding dpi...
not just with him but with outside advertising agencies.
That's when the real Abbott and Costello come out to play.

I used to work with an architect on occasion and I truly believe that he would fall in love with your engineer at the first glimpse.