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View Full Version : Monitor Upgrade, what should I look for for 3D Work?



WCameron
09-18-2009, 02:50 PM
well my clunky old sun microsystems 22 inch cathode ray behemoth looks like its about crap the bed. aside from two chips on the glass front theres now a vague pinkish band running across it about an inch from the top....
So I'm thinking of jumping to LCD. Probably in the 300
dollars range (less is always good of course! heh). so My question is: What should I look for thats good for
3D Apps in particular like Lightwave, Modo, Softimage.
Screen Resolution, Refresh Rate/Response time, cd/m, contrast ratios, etc?

Any info would be appreciated.

- Will.

Intuition
09-18-2009, 03:01 PM
HP dream LP2480zx nuff said. :D

http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/review/HP_DreamColor_LP2480zx_Professional_Display/

Calibrated they are really really nice.

But its pricy. :devil: Oh yeah, you said $300.... um, hmm another post is required here.

cresshead
09-18-2009, 03:10 PM
be careful what you get...my acer 24" colors and contrast is not correct..and the controls
on it 'can't get you there'...so i have to check on other monitors which is a pain in +ss

cheap ususally means 'cheap' an that's what i got!
if you look at behind the scenes on district 9 they all used CRT's still...
i still use a lacie 22" CRT as well as my laptop's to make sure i'm in the ball park so to speak on compositing/color corrections.

if you get a good quality lcd like a top of range Dell your probably just fine but cheaper ones ususally have crappy settings..some of the cheaper dells are like the acer> 'cheap'

most refresh rates are fine even on cheap lcd's just they lack good controls to set up the colors and contrast/brightnes most of the time.

Intuition
09-18-2009, 03:12 PM
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Monitors/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-6272

Thats a pretty good monitor for the $300 range. 24 inches :D

Its cheap but pretty good for cheap.

Andyjaggy
09-18-2009, 03:16 PM
I love my Dell 24 inch.

The bottom line is, if you really need super accurate colors your gonna have to fork out a lot of money. BUT, for most 3D artists I would assume that pretty accurate color is good enough, and most decent quality displays are going to be accurate enough.

I would be more concerned about size and resolution.

cresshead
09-18-2009, 03:16 PM
yeah the extra you pay above $300 such as the dell above at $449 should get you good controls to setup the panel.

Von Polygon
09-18-2009, 06:54 PM
For $300 you will probably get a TN panel based monitor, up to 24" with 1290 x 1080 resolution. As tempting as it may seem, don't buy it - you will regret it later. Get a monitor based in PVA/MVA or IPS panel instead.

Dell 2407WFP, 2408WFP and the new U2410 are all great value for money, other manufacturers do similar ones as well, but they are more expensive.

As these seem to be out of your initial price range, you could consider a quality panel of smaller size: Dell 2209WA is very good.

Good site for info, tests and reviews:

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/guides.htm

JonW
09-18-2009, 10:12 PM
I think the monitor is the most important part of a set up. Everything down stream is secondary.

Buy the best monitor that you can afford, or can’t afford!

I’ve got a Dell 2407 & 3008, they are both good, but for Lightwave tasks the larger the screen the better. It just makes life so much easier with complex drawings.

I also have a cheap Asus just to use for those technical issues setting up computers, & I would go blind if I had to use it for any length of time. To put it bluntly it’s just plane hard (almost painful) to look at.

You should not be aware that you are looking at a monitor, so to speak. Only then is it a good screen. (I had a Sony 21” CTR professional model years ago, it cost an absolute buck load, but it was such a pleasure to use)

Something like a Dell 24” (& not the cheap one) if you are using it for hours each day would be the minimum prerequisite.

As other have mentioned, do NOT buy a TN panel....... You will get splitting headaches & go blind!

radams
09-19-2009, 09:55 AM
Hi All,

Hey KC, yeah that HP DreamColor is sweet :)

But it unfortunately only comes in 24"size and is $$$$

Do you or anyone at your work use any 30" Displays?
Which ones?

I'm looking for something with more screen real estate.

I'm also looking at the DreamColor as a seperate reference monitor.
But that will have to come later...at the moment I've got a Samsung 24" ...same panel as the Dell 24"

I will also be looking at larger Plasma and LCD displays for reference outputs. There are some DI suites using the Panasonic plasmas.

Anyone working with three monitors?

Anyone find any 10 bit displays...rather than the 8 bit that most others are ?

Cheers,

Sekhar
09-19-2009, 10:06 AM
For $300 you will probably get a TN panel based monitor, up to 24" with 1290 x 1080 resolution. As tempting as it may seem, don't buy it - you will regret it later. Get a monitor based in PVA/MVA or IPS panel instead.

Dell 2407WFP, 2408WFP and the new U2410 are all great value for money, other manufacturers do similar ones as well, but they are more expensive.

As these seem to be out of your initial price range, you could consider a quality panel of smaller size: Dell 2209WA is very good.

Good site for info, tests and reviews:

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/guides.htm

I agree, on everything said. IPS is the way to go. On 2209WA, I believe that's the ONLY sub-$300 IPS (a new faster, less expensive version called e-IPS) panel available on the market. I'm in fact planning to get a couple of them.

WCameron
09-19-2009, 01:07 PM
Excellent, thank you all!. I've decided to hold out a bit longer - with all the overtime I'll be pulling over the season this year I should end up with quite a nice little pile of cash so I'll get a good monitor - that will be step one on t he road to a hypersweet I7 system for christmas :-)

- Will.

radams
09-21-2009, 08:12 AM
Hi All,

Just to let you all know, Dell now is shipping a new monitor that supports 10bits per channel (30bit color instead of 24bit)...thus has over 1 billion colors instead of 16 million. it also has a larger gamut.

It still isn't a HP DreamColor...but for $600 vs $3,400 it might be worth a look.

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Monitors/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&sku=320-8277

I just wish that they had a 30" not just the 24"...also I wish that the color gamut was larger like that of the DreamColor...

Hey HP, Drop your price...and make a 30" version as well :)

Cheers,

radams
10-02-2009, 02:17 PM
An update about the Dell U2410 monitor.

According to Dell Engineering, this monitor is an 8 bit panel...not a 10 bit panel...though it had higher bit processing in the background.

So this is not a true 10 bit display...so it will still have banding issues etc...
The panel gamut is not as wide as other 8 bit Dell panels...though it is supposed to be more accurate and consistent in it's display.

So the HP DreamColor is still the best LED reference 24" monitor you can get...though I hope there will be 30" ten bit displays in hopefully in the near future...with wide gamut presets as well.

Cheers,

Lightwolf
10-02-2009, 03:49 PM
I recently got this one:
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-7641
Mainly because of the 2048x1152 res, it was meant for my coding PC.
Than again, after having used it for a while, it certainly blows away any of the left over CRTs I have as well as my older 20" IPS based Samsung.

It's certainly not perfect, but at the price it's a steal.

Cheers,
Mike

Sekhar
10-02-2009, 04:25 PM
I just ordered the U2410, should get here next week. Apparently, it's same as HP LP2475W at least panel wise. In any case, it's a big improvement over the popular predecessor 2408WFP for sure - 12 bit color processing vs. 8 bit, wider gamut, lower banding, better lag times, etc.

There're a bunch of reviews, but this one (http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2410.htm) is a bit more detailed. The 12 bit processing seems to have eliminated banding:

"Testing the screen with various colour gradients showed smooth transitions between shades and no sign of banding here. The 12-bit LUT is partly responsible for this as it provides a huge palette of colours for the screen to utilise, and its main function is to help ensure there are no issues with gradients."

JonW
10-02-2009, 04:25 PM
30” for Aussies!


Dell Australia are flogging off the 30” until 8 October for $1799 if one can stretch their budget this far.

http://www1.ap.dell.com/au/en/business/monitors/ct.aspx?refid=monitors&s=bsd&cs=aubsd1&~tab=2

Also remember we Aussies get an extra tax break up until the end of the year then it reverts back to the normal tax system.

I’ve found the extra real estate so good & worth absolutely every cent & that's coming from a 24”! Plus all the connections are very useful, CF etc. & there are two DVI sockets which is really useful.

radams
10-02-2009, 05:34 PM
Hi Sekhar,

Well after reading the whole review...this monitor is a decent one...but not what Dell has been marketing it as... It has some significant issues in blacks, contrast, etc...and lag. Even thought is has a wide gamut it still doesn't fill out many of the color needs we have for video/film production.

For the money it is decent...but it is NOT the 10 bit display they've been pushing...it is as stated...an 8 bit panel with a 12 bit processing LUT on the back end.

I hope in the future there will be better true 10 bit panels...

This does bring up the question though since this is a LG panel...would an LG display be as good...or better? Is there a 30" version that would do well?

Cheers,

Sekhar
10-02-2009, 06:01 PM
For the money it is decent...but it is NOT the 10 bit display they've been pushing...it is as stated...an 8 bit panel with a 12 bit processing LUT on the back end.

You keep insisting on this 10 bit/8 bit thing. If there's no banding, what's your issue? Just curious. Seems like you're getting hung up on numbers, not results.

radams
10-03-2009, 01:27 AM
You keep insisting on this 10 bit/8 bit thing. If there's no banding, what's your issue? Just curious. Seems like you're getting hung up on numbers, not results.

It's not just banding...but the whole colorspace, and contrast black/white issues...

8 bit still can only show 16 million colors...where a 10 bit can show over 1 billion, with more colors and shades....and also more accuracy.

I'm not hung on numbers...I am on results.
This dell monitor is a step forward...but it is a half step..and incomplete.
If this had been a true 10 bit panel...then Adobe RGB should be able to be shown in 100% not 96%...and the ability to show other Digital Cinema specification would be there as well.

As it stands, this monitor has a little better performance than standard 8 bit panels...It just that it could have been so much more.

I'm still wanting a 10 bit panel that can handle a wide gamut, accuracy...and presets for not just print/stills...but for video, film, etc...

The displays are one of our weak links these days in reference viewing, graphic cards can display HDR imagery...but not our 8 bit monitors properely.

Cheers,

erikals
10-03-2009, 11:31 AM
Samsung 3D monitor bundle.

http://images.tigerdirect.com/skuimages/large/N500-2002-main01-tmc.jpg

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4386904&CatId=2775

JGary
12-21-2009, 04:18 PM
Samsung 3D monitor bundle.

http://images.tigerdirect.com/skuimages/large/N500-2002-main01-tmc.jpg

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4386904&CatId=2775

Will the Nvidia 3D driver work with apps like Lightwave or Maya? I'm sure I would probably get a headache after a couple of hours, but still would be awesome to have the ability to use it for 3D modeling.

Lightwolf
12-21-2009, 04:37 PM
Will the Nvidia 3D driver work with apps like Lightwave or Maya? I'm sure I would probably get a headache after a couple of hours, but still would be awesome to have the ability to use it for 3D modeling.
No.
First of all it is only designed for games. The 3D driver for consumer type boards only supports 3D for full screen type applications (such as games) - you'd need a quadro that support the proper extensions for windowed apps.
And then the application itself needs to support it (once we're taling about windowed 3d) - something that LW doesn't do.
It might work with Maya and a Quadro though.

Cheers,
Mike

erikals
12-21-2009, 04:45 PM
hm,... windowed 3D for a LW feature request?

Lightwolf
12-21-2009, 04:46 PM
hm,... windowed 3D for a LW feature request?
Even then... quadro only. Unless it includes more options like, for example, Fusion 6 offers (which works well enough with a pair of cheap anaglyph specs as a simple start).

Cheers,
Mike

JGary
12-22-2009, 10:16 PM
Even then... quadro only. Unless it includes more options like, for example, Fusion 6 offers (which works well enough with a pair of cheap anaglyph specs as a simple start).

Cheers,
Mike

I researched some of the 3d monitors...iz3d seems most interesting, but still nothing I would spend money on, especially when adding in the price of a quadro card. Maybe with the current popularity of 3D movies, better options will become available. Maya has quite a few options for viewport stereo viewing...would be nice to see something added for LW.

WCameron
12-23-2009, 07:12 AM
Not S-PVA, but interesting. what do you people think?

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00301522000P?keyword=LCD+Monitor

- Will.

CC Rider
12-23-2009, 07:52 AM
This one is above the $300 mark, but if color is important, this monitor will not disappoint!

HP LP2475 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=Hewlett-Packard+LP2475W&N=0&InitialSearch=yes)

Sting
12-23-2009, 08:42 AM
I bought the DELL UltraSharp U2410 a couple of weeks ago for $529 and I don't regret it. I was considering buying a 24" TN monitor in the $300 range. I didn't want to spend the extra $200, but the picture quality is much better than my DELL UltraSharp 1905FP. I can definitely see more detail in 24 bit pictures. I also think it is easier on my eyes compared to my 19" DELL. I think you would be better off if you could actually compare the image quality for yourself. Everyone here is going to have their own idea of what is acceptable.

creacon
12-23-2009, 09:46 AM
We have about 20 of these, it's a good monitor (3 years warranty) for 3D work, but color accuracy is about the weakest point for this one, so I don't know why you would recommend it "if color is important"

creacon


This one is above the $300 mark, but if color is important, this monitor will not disappoint!

HP LP2475 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=Hewlett-Packard+LP2475W&N=0&InitialSearch=yes)

CC Rider
12-23-2009, 09:52 AM
We have about 20 of these, it's a good monitor (3 years warranty) for 3D work, but color accuracy is about the weakest point for this one, so I don't know why you would recommend it "if color is important"

I respectfully and whole-heartedly disagree!
Especially if you take the time to calibrate it...
Best monitor you can get in this size and price range in my opinion.

Twisted_Pixel
01-13-2010, 05:45 PM
Just got myself a NEC EA231WMi, loving it so far. The 23" 1920*1080 is a massive upgrade from my previous 17" 1280*1024.

erikals
01-14-2010, 10:24 AM
Acer releases first 24'' (23.5) 120 Hz 3D screen,
http://www.digitalversus.com/news_id-11960.html

(warning: TN technology)

probiner
01-14-2010, 10:30 AM
Get a DELL or Samsung 24" with S-PVA (DELL also uses Samsung manufactured panels). Anything based on TN tech is crappy and can't display even brightness from top to bottom due to the panel viewing angle.

I have a DELL 24" and it has very nice colour reproduction if you spend a bit of time setting it up correctly - and of course properly colour manage your applications. I use mine for photographic and print work, for which it is more than adequate.

The DELL and Samsung S-PVA 24" monitors are probably the best monitors if you want quality at a good price.

I have that top/bottom issue. Simply sucks... in my college i get to work with Dell 1920*1200 (http://www.dell.com/us/en/dfo/peripherals/monitor_2408wfp/pd.aspx?refid=monitor_2408wfp&s=dfo) and they don't change a bit with vertical changes of the point of view. Makes me mad =)

So yeah if i were to buy a monitor today and i could afford for one i would go for S-PVA for sure. So bad to calibrate your monitor, but always putting whatever you are editing in middle of the screen, keeping a certain posture so whatever you are looking is in the calibrated area... erf...

Andyjaggy
01-14-2010, 10:45 AM
Yeah I just recently learned about TN panels and how much they suck. Now I need to go invest in a good monitor.

If you are going to get a TN display, I find the Samsungs to be better then the Dells, not as much color shifting with a change of angles.

erikals
01-14-2010, 10:50 AM
damn, so that 24" Acer is no good then...
cheap though...

Andyjaggy
01-14-2010, 12:30 PM
They make good 2nds monitors, but for my main display I want something where the color is the same weather I am sitting up straight or slouching in my chair. As it is right now the brightness changes about 20% depending on how I'm sitting.

probiner
01-14-2010, 03:06 PM
And if you do ilustrations is just so annoying cause scroll you artwork up and down when you work in depth and the values just change in front of your eye as you scroll... but it's all a matter if WCameron has the need and the financial green light.

CC Rider
01-14-2010, 03:10 PM
They make good 2nds monitors, but for my main display I want something where the color is the same weather I am sitting up straight or slouching in my chair. As it is right now the brightness changes about 20% depending on how I'm sitting.

Exactly, no reason why it wouldn't work as monitor just to fill with statistic windows or nodes or surface editor, graph editor...I could go on.
Unless you really need your workstation to have that totally symmetrical look...then its no good!

At least one good monitor and you're good to go!

:D