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View Full Version : Revert Scene to Last Save; A rant.



neocount73
09-17-2009, 08:40 AM
I have a problem with this wonderful function. (Revert Scene to last saved) I completely understand the need for a "Dude, are you sure you wanna do this?" type prompt, in case you selected the this command accidentally. That would be a handy little prompt, especially if the defaulted selection was the "Wait... what? Oh, hell no!" button instead of the "Yes, it's ruined, give me a Mulligan." button. Why then, for the love of all that is unholy, WHY when I select the File/Load Scene/Revert to Last Saved command in Layout does it ask me if I want to save the version that clearly isn't working and overwrite the one I want to revert to, thereby completely destroying the Last-Saved scene forever?! Seriously! It just makes me want to storm the Newtek castle and tickle the developers with feathers until they wet themselves! Who's with me!? ....[cricket, cricket]... No one? Wow, I need to take my medication then. Sorry.

Lightwolf
09-17-2009, 08:44 AM
Why then, for the love of all that is unholy, WHY when I select the File/Load Scene/Revert to Last Saved command in Layout does it ask me if I want to save the version that clearly isn't working and overwrite the one I want to revert to, thereby completely destroying the Last-Saved scene forever?!
Because it's first clearing the existing scene (which is where the prompt comes from) and the loads it again.

It does make sense to ask though, just in case you slipped selecting a menu item - or aren't sure (otherwise there would be no need to ever ask the user to confirm anything ;) ).

Cheers,
Mike

dwburman
09-17-2009, 09:53 AM
Most programs that give you an option to revert don't give you the option to save... just an 'are you sure you want to do this?' requester.

I agree with neocount73 and brought this issue up during the open beta but NT didn't change it back then so I'm guessing they're not going to fix it now.

JBT27
09-17-2009, 10:33 AM
Try living on the edge and switching off save options altogether ..... that'll keep you on your toes :D

I did that for awhile until I made a complete howler by closing something I didn't want to ..... so although I agree with your comments to a point, sometimes it is just plain handy to have that reminder that stops you in your tracks.

Julian.

JML
09-17-2009, 11:42 AM
The worst with "Revert Scene to Last Save" is its position I think.
It should not be next to a "load" option.. being between 'load objects' and
'load items from scene' is just bad.

it's similar to another app I use, where they have the 'cancel' button next to the 'save' button.. really bad idea..

do people use "Revert Scene to Last Save" a lot ? I never used it.. on purpose..

evenflcw
09-17-2009, 12:51 PM
Mike is wrong! :)

Dana is correct!

Asking to save before reverting is illogical - if you answer yes, it's not a even revert (or cancel)! Which disqualifies the implementation because it is SO prone to mistakes! And add to that it would make irreversibly damage to the users file. The new save options brought nothing new that actually made our files safer. Rather the opposite, because of faulty logic! It's quite apparent that NT didn't spend enough time designing them - in particular the interaction logic (sequence diagrams?). Likely someone felt they could reuse the same code for all cases - "they were only a few lines different!". They were wrong! Saving/Reverting was much safer before! I really have a hard time excusing NT for not fixing this, despite numerous motivated protests. It's the safety of our files and the value of our time at stake here! Apparently NT doesn't value those as highly as we do.

Lightwolf
09-17-2009, 02:36 PM
Mike is wrong! :)

Dana is correct!

Asking to save before reverting is illogical - if you answer yes, it's not a even revert (or cancel)!
I said it makes sense to ask.. I didn't say that the question asked is actually the right one, did I ;)

"Are you sure you'd like to revert losing your current scene?" would be more like it of course - but that's obvious.

However, the how (clear and then re-load) explains the current why.

Cheers,
Mike

jwiede
09-17-2009, 03:23 PM
100% :agree: with evenflcw & neocount73.

When the user chooses to "revert" (presented as a menu item), most other programs state that the current state will be lost, and ask the user to confirm the action, they do not offer to save the current state. Revert has a specific meaning, including abandoning the current state. What LW does is actually a "reload" (e.g. repeating the entire load sequence except with a fixed target), which differs from the expected "Revert" behavior.

I'd be fine if LW chose to confirm I wanted to revert to the version on disk as a OK/CANCEL dialog, most other apps do just that. However, it shouldn't offer to save. Offering to save with the default being to overwrite the subsequent load operation target is pointless and a bug.

If the user wants the full "save then load" they should reload the document from the "Recent Files" list, not use revert. Otherwise you wind up with two nearby menu items doing the same thing, which leads to confusion. Why offer both if they both do the same sequence of actions?

Lightwolf
09-17-2009, 03:30 PM
Why offer both if they both do the same sequence of actions?
Probably because loads of people asked for it... as in "I want a Revert!" - and they got one.
Not a "proper" one as defined here, but hey ;)

I'd also suppose this was the "easiest" way to implement it, not in terms of actual coding but also in terms of accidentally breaking something else (which can be a massive issue, implement one feature, produce 10 bugs in seemingly unrelated areas that not only need to be dealt with... but that need to be found in the first place).

It's not ideal... but there's a good reason behind it.

Cheers,
Mike

evenflcw
09-17-2009, 04:37 PM
Sorry Mike. I misread your post, just like you suspected! I guess we are all in agreement that asking to save before revert is wrong then. But we don't mind a simple dialog reminding us that we'll loose the current scene if we revert. Personally I sometimes do feel I could do without that reminder, and imho THAT is what the save option should have brought us! Alternative logics (more or less complex; not just on/off), rather than alternative visuals! Anyways... I'll stop now, we want Revert fixed before anything else! :)

Lightwolf
09-17-2009, 05:09 PM
Anyways... I'll stop now, we want Revert fixed before anything else! :)
Define "anything else". :p

Cheers,
Mike

evenflcw
09-17-2009, 05:31 PM
That might be one of those question your not supposed to answer... but I meant within the confines of stuff concerning saving and loading (including revert) in general, not EVERYTHING. And I suppose it is not as much of a problem anymore as we all seem to be aware of it by now. Although it bugs me (us?) everytime I have to deal with it. A scripter could likely write a proper Revert, so I guess it really isn't something NT has to do, but rather something they ought to do. Personally, I have trust-issues with other peoples save-scripts. Not because they might not work right, but because that's how I work. If I wasn't such a muppet-fan I would be a paranoid android instead. :)

neocount73
09-22-2009, 12:31 PM
Anyone ever used Form Z? They had a great save feature way back when (been years since I've used it) Whenever you opened and modified a file then saved it, it would actually save two files; one with the current changes you just saved and a "hidden" one that's a copy of last saved file. If you screwed up and over-wrote a model you didn't want to all you had to do was open the .bak (the save before last) version. I use the save increment a lot but the file count can really out of hand if you don't clean out the old versions. Like me. I ain't got time ta clean!