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View Full Version : Fprime adds strange shadow/reflection to nearby objects



OlaHaldor
09-17-2009, 02:18 AM
I'm about to redo all of my textures for a project which is gonna go into a game engine, thus the need for texture baking. Internal LW render is OK, but slower than FPrime for this matter, and I'd really like to get my head around this beast - just got it up and running yesterday.


See attached image. You can see the stairs hit the wall as if it was a reflection. The texture is rendered using the FPrime Renderer. In the interactive preview none of this occurs.

Quite annoying, as I don't know what I could do about it.

I also have other artifacts, and this happens both in FPrime and LW internal render engine... It's as if some textures bleeds off onto other areas of the UV, but they're no where near each other in the UV map, so it's baked onto the object from it's position relative to the other object that bleeds onto wherever it shouldn't go at all. *sigh* If only things were like you see it in OpenGL sometimes.. :)

See attached image nr 2 with some artifacts where edges of geometry is divided with black strokes or anything else bleeding onto it.

dwburman
09-17-2009, 09:59 AM
I don't have a lot of experience with this but I'd try tweaking the "Offset from surface" and "UV Border" settings to see if they are causing your texture bleed.

OlaHaldor
09-17-2009, 10:52 AM
Hmm.. Good points. I've never really understood those values. However, when I've had the default "Offset from surface" I've had some issues with clipping geometry, parts that wouldn't be rendered at all.

I'll dig into it. Thanks!

OlaHaldor
09-17-2009, 12:01 PM
Hmm.. I'm not getting any smarter. I've been trying different settings on the "Offset from surface" setting, and so far I've found that 80mm is the golden spot when it comes to textures not bleeding into each other. I redid the UV as well with a 30% margin between the polygons.

It looks like I've switched on "render edges", but FPrime can't even render those.

OlaHaldor
09-18-2009, 05:04 AM
I've spent about four hours of testing now. I modeled a VERY simple house using only quads. Wherever polygons meet, there's a black, blurred line in the intersection. This is NOT occlusion, but strange problem in the UV. I can't recall I had these problems earlier when I did some other models.



I've tried both with native render engine and FPrime now. Both are about the same.

See image attached. I've tried with different settings of surface offset in the camera options, and different settings for space between geometry during UV creation. Nothing seems to help me here. 8~

It's like if the textures aren't big enough for the polygons !?

Alexx
09-18-2009, 05:36 AM
it's simply because LW do antialiasing of the borders against the black background...

you'll always have this if you use adaptive sampling

and using uv border to shift away this black rim is not a solution since this parameters gives ugly and noisy stuff (like you've seen in my other post http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96709&highlight=uv+border&page=2)

OlaHaldor
09-18-2009, 07:44 AM
I haven't switched on antialiasing nor adaptive sampling.

What's UV border? Where do I find that and adjust it?

Otterman
09-18-2009, 08:07 AM
'UV Border' is in the camera properties which I think is used to exclude the black border and it refers to pixels.

Alexx
09-18-2009, 08:10 AM
'UV Border' is in the camera properties which I think is used to exclude the black border and it refers to pixels.

... and it completely sucks since it only produce noisy borders worse than the black border

OlaHaldor
09-18-2009, 08:11 AM
Ah! There we go.. It's quite a bit of trial and error to find the sweet spot it seems. I'm doing a render of a VERY simple structure of about 130 polygons, and I gotta use about 10-15 anti aliasing passes. At 1024x1024 this has taken quite a while now, and this is without any fancy lighting nor radiosity.. Wonder how long that's gonna take then..... :o

The baking I'm gonna do is with buildings which holds a somewhere between 1000 and 10,000 polygons with different image maps to add texture, with area lights and radiosity to get a natural effect for use in a flight simulator. I smell a steep change in final price for this project.. :D

Alexx
09-18-2009, 08:51 AM
good luck....

on my side, I have more than 50 textures to bake :(
and it's a real pain to have something good

I'm now writing a lscript to create automatically a new scene for each baking camera to automate the rendering step with the renderQ plugin

if you are interested, I'll post it here

OlaHaldor
09-20-2009, 12:33 AM
Well.. I'm actually giving up this. I had to make the polygons smaller inside the UV map, so then I lost a LOT of detail, and I'll have to cut the object to pieces and hope I can glue them nicely together inside the world editor for "Scenery". It's gonna be a pain in the A though. Oh.. if only this game engine could support more than one UV map per object...

simonlion
09-20-2009, 02:23 AM
Dear OlaHaldor:

Dont Give up...
Email Dan Ablan of 3dGarage, Iam sure he can answer your questions, Dan Is a great guy, not only he has great Tutorials, Also, he helps all his students when they have any LW Questions,,, Iam currently learning his product shot Tutorials..
Good Luck..
Simon..

OlaHaldor
09-21-2009, 01:19 AM
I'm sorry to inform that I've given up on this. There's several things going on that MUST be 100%..

Details in textures, especially for the walls - they need to seem sharp and clear since one can pull up next to it with a plane. It's all for the flight simulator X-Plane. And X-Plane has a upper limit of 2048x2048... So breaking it up into at least two objects will help me on the texturing bit, but not for the layout bit to bring it back in-game. I haven't tested it yet. Worst case scenario: it won't work.

dablan
09-21-2009, 09:42 AM
Hi -
I've got the email and taking a look at it...

Thanks,
Dan

Alexx
09-21-2009, 01:01 PM
Hi -
I've got the email and taking a look at it...

Thanks,
Dan

thanks a lot :)
don't forget to drop an eye on my post here http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96709&highlight=uv+border&page=2

you'll find some stuff to test this problem.

I've also noticed that the background color (or gradient) is much more present in the radiosity solution of the baked texture than in the classical rendering

If you look a my scene (see my link) , I use a gradient texture as bgcolor.
At frame 0, the green is much more visible when rendering whith a surface baking camera than with the perspective camera.
with the surface baking camera, the ground seems to not be occluding the color coming from the nadir.

Many things seems to be broken with baking cameras and radiosity...