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cresshead
09-08-2009, 08:04 AM
chew over this...

core devlopment, realistically it may take 2 or 3 more years to get Core production feature 'fat'.

so how about this idea...Lightwave10 :hey:
this would require NO time/coding from newtek and would be a bundle pack of 3rd party plugins and the latest lightwave [lwHC]

which would be lightwave 9.6/HC with some 3rd party plugins for the ususal upgrade fee.

candidates for the plugins could be...
lwcad
trueart modeling pack or some parts from the pack [special edition?]
hd instance
ex trader
jimmy rigger
3d coat
messiah studio
fprime
zbrush3.5


you'd not get all of these but newtek could see who was up for it..
the customer would get a 'discount' from actually going out and buying the apps/plugins by going for the lightwave 2010 pack and the 3rd party vendors be them plugin or app related would get new customers they may have never got onboard.

lightwave 10 would ship with a selection of those plugins but no CORE...keep lightwave core separate for now with an upgrade path to core as an option

this could extend the time needed to get core really ready/finished.

okay, i'll put my spoon down....and see if it's stirred up anything!:D

JohnMarchant
09-08-2009, 08:10 AM
Nice idea cress, cant for the life of me imagine it will ever happen. They are juggling 3 pieces of software at the moment with 9.6 (and update), LWHC and Core.

I think it will be a combination of LWHC 32 & 64 Bit and Core for the forseeable future, i can wish but i cant see it somehow.

GraphXs
09-08-2009, 08:16 AM
I think that is a great idea, a plug-in driven upgrade would extend the life of LW, I hope it would also contain plenty of bug fixes. I wouldn't mind if they sold it as an upgrade to LW10 with the beta option for Core. More input form the community I feel would be very welcome.:lwicon:

cresshead
09-08-2009, 08:23 AM
well my thoughs are that MOST upgrades ARE nothing more than adding plugins anyway...look at>>
3dsmax 2010..they added polyboost..and c.a..t...image modeler and realviz
maya added zero plugins but bundled toxic and realviz
softimage added face robot

so what's the difference?...
i'd say join the rest and create a production bundle pack and label it lightwave 2010!

Kuzey
09-08-2009, 08:42 AM
I think it's too late for that, they said the 9 series was the end of the line and it would look like they were having second ideas about the Core...not something you want to project to the 3D world :hey:

However, Newtek was thinking of making the Cocoa upgrade a paid one, so I was thinking they might extend it to 10 to justify the cost.

Calling LW 9.6.x with 3rd party bundles..LW 10 is a mistake, not without major built in improvements and bug fixes. It defeats the point and creating more of a mess that Newtek would care for.

Last point, people would expect to get the Core with the upgrade, because people who already upgraded to 9.6 did so...that's another mess you don't want on your hands :hey:

Kuzey

cresshead
09-08-2009, 09:07 AM
Calling LW 9.6.x with 3rd party bundles..LW 10 is a mistake, not without major built in improvements and bug fixes.

Kuzey

calling it lightwave 2010 would be okay though...
all that is a label > lightwave for 2010...:hey:

similar to how autodesk operate and also how cinema4d is marketed with various versions based on plugins you get or do not get..

such as
lightwave arch design 2010 [lwcad,vroom,hd instance]
lightwave character animation 2010 [jimmy rigger pro]
lightwave pro modeler illustration studio 2010[ trueart model pack and 3d coat]
lightwave VFX 2010 [ hd instance,ex trader and systheyes]

JohnMarchant
09-08-2009, 09:19 AM
I think it's too late for that, they said the 9 series was the end of the line and it would look like they were having second ideas about the Core...not something you want to project to the 3D world :hey:

However, Newtek was thinking of making the Cocoa upgrade a paid one, so I was thinking they might extend it to 10 to justify the cost.

Calling LW 9.6.x with 3rd party bundles..LW 10 is a mistake, not without major built in improvements and bug fixes. It defeats the point and creating more of a mess that Newtek would care for.

Last point, people would expect to get the Core with the upgrade, because people who already upgraded to 9.6 did so...that's another mess you don't want on your hands :hey:

Kuzey

Whats this about second thoughts on Core ???? (did i miss something)

pooby
09-08-2009, 09:24 AM
More features don't always make for a happy user. Sometimes you have to accept you've just outgrown something and move on.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/lou_094/clown-car.jpg


(that was just an excuse to use the pic)

Kuzey
09-08-2009, 09:31 AM
calling it lightwave 2010 would be okay though...
all that is a label > lightwave for 2010...:hey:

similar to how autodesk operate and also how cinema4d is marketed with various versions based on plugins you get or do not get..

such as
lightwave arch design 2010 [lwcad,vroom,hd instance]
lightwave character animation 2010 [jimmy rigger pro]
lightwave pro modeler illustration studio 2010[ trueart model pack and 3d coat]
lightwave VFX 2010 [ hd instance,ex trader and systheyes]

Yes, but we are talking about Newtek and something like that will be seen in the worst light possible :hey:

The Core is the next best thing for Newtek and having them push something like " lightwave arch design 2010 " at the same time is asking for trouble. Is "lightwave arch design 2010" actually old LW or the new Core, why isn't it the Core, why haven't the show stopping bugs not been fixed..I paid for the upgrade and LW 10 is still useless without those bug fixes/improvements etc. etc.

I guess they could have an end of line bundle for 9.6.x as an extra option without calling it something else. That might work, could be a nice way to say goodbye to the old LW.

Kuzey

kolby
09-08-2009, 09:35 AM
I want full GPU rendering to any next update for 9.x series.

Kuzey
09-08-2009, 09:36 AM
Whats this about second thoughts on Core ???? (did i miss something)

Ha ha...it's begining :D

Kuzey

revengeofmonty
09-08-2009, 09:43 AM
I'd settle for hardfx and HV being vastly improved.

cresshead
09-08-2009, 09:45 AM
I'd settle for hardfx and HV being vastly improved.

well you need CORE as lightwave is not being 'developed' for future versions as you already know.

cresshead
09-08-2009, 09:46 AM
I want full GPU rendering to any next update for 9.x series.

there's NO update for lightwave...try reading the post again!

kolby
09-08-2009, 09:55 AM
there NO update for lightwave...try reading the post again!

Ok, I want it for LW10 or 2010 ....

biliousfrog
09-08-2009, 09:56 AM
I'd settle for a working version of 9.6

cresshead
09-08-2009, 09:58 AM
the whole POINT is no extra work for newtek...just a bundle deal to create a lightwave 2010

do you understand now?

cresshead
09-08-2009, 09:58 AM
I'd settle for a working version of 9.6

you mean a bugfix for crashes?

biliousfrog
09-08-2009, 10:05 AM
you mean a bugfix fo crashes?

yes...NewTek still haven't clarified who is entitled to 9.6 bug fixes, it was hinted that only HC members would get it, but I've hit so many roadblocks over the past couple of weeks that I won't be sticking with LW unless there's a bug fix.

Nemoid
09-08-2009, 10:14 AM
IMO, bundling some good plugin and do some bugfix could be made, not a bad idea at all, also because those plugins should afterwarsds be ported for core , so it will be their last iteration.
but i'd call it something like 9.8 or whatever, not 10 or 2010 in any way, because it totally would seem like a new product, which it isn't.

However: very probably they'll market LW HC and CORE together a sa sort of bundle. so, the add on would be to have CORE as an extension of what HC can do.

Dexter2999
09-08-2009, 10:15 AM
Sounds more like a suggestion for a reseller like Safeharbor or somesuch. Someone who already gets the software at wholesale and marks it up.

Newtek doesn't have those partnerships in place and likely doesn't have the time/resources to dedicate to developing them.

cresshead
09-08-2009, 10:17 AM
Sounds more like a suggestion for a reseller like Safeharbor or somesuch. Someone who already gets the software at wholesale and marks it up.

Newtek doesn't have those partnerships in place and likely doesn't have the time/resources to dedicate to developing them.

newtek have already done things like this in the past...

remember lightwave/vue infinate bundle?
remember the lightwave fusion bundle?
remember the lightwave speed edit bundle?

Intuition
09-08-2009, 10:34 AM
(that was just an excuse to use the pic)

Haha, great pic Pooby. :D

Dexter2999
09-08-2009, 10:41 AM
newtek have alrady done things like this in the past...

remember lightwave/vue infinate bundle?
remember the lightwave fusion bundle?
remember the lightwave speed edit bundle?

Each partnership took time to cultivate and the idea is that you bundle your software then they make back their money on the paid upgrades.

Except with Speed Edit. Speed Edit was Newtek's own product.

Newtek would have to make alliances with each company you are talking about or set themselves up as resellers to qualify for wholesale purchase of these products. Even if they bundled the programs they bought at wholesale ( say 50% of retail) when they combine some of these they could become cost prohibitive.

Plus there is little motivation for makers of some plug-ins like EXR trader and 3D Coat to participate as they are already the only outlet for their products. So they sell for retail pricing. Offering to Newtek for a discounted rate means they lose money. The only way to make that attractive to them is gurantee a minimum number of units (like 5,000) because it will undermine sales until their next point version upgrade.

But that is just my take on it. Be nice to hear from some of these Plug in developers.

pooby
09-08-2009, 11:06 AM
Haha, great pic Pooby. :D

Phew.. I was starting to think I had a strange sense of humour

prometheus
09-08-2009, 11:40 AM
Well bundles are nice, but I would prefer newtek leaving the no more
development add feature police and starts to put some resources aside
to do something more and release 9.8 or lw 10 with improved features.

I donīt really think they have reached a limit to as far they can go with
lw 9.6 that to me sounds more like an excuse to focus on core, rather
than the truth, that is what I feel and believe.

If they donīt have the time and resources to continue that path and choose to focus on core, that is another story thou, eventurally that has to be done some day, I just felt they should be way more further in the core development before making that statement.

And I believe they would have a stronger case to keep klients hanging
on to lw core as well as get some newcomers until the big switchover, just
my thoughts on it.

I still want my distance between particle parameters in hv:s
and metaball blending in volume mode:)

Michael

prometheus
09-08-2009, 11:41 AM
the whole POINT is no extra work for newtek...just a bundle deal to create a lightwave 2010

do you understand now?
Lazyheads donīt get anywere:)

Michael

Lightwolf
09-08-2009, 11:50 AM
Plus there is little motivation for makers of some plug-ins like EXR trader and 3D Coat to participate as they are already the only outlet for their products. So they sell for retail pricing. Offering to Newtek for a discounted rate means they lose money. The only way to make that attractive to them is gurantee a minimum number of units (like 5,000) because it will undermine sales until their next point version upgrade.

But that is just my take on it. Be nice to hear from some of these Plug in developers.
3D Coat is a standalone app that has a shelf life beyond the demise of "LightWave 3D As We Know It"(tm).
As for "proper" plugins:
There's few plugins that I am certain have sold more than 1000 units (not including bundles of course).
So even getting 1000 sold at a lower price is quite good for plugin developers, especially knowing that it will be more or less the last chance to sell them.
It's a bit like a clearance sale, as anything targetting core will need to be rewritten (either partly or to a massive extent, depending on the nature of the plugin) - or doesn't make sense at all.

However it would also mean that all of a sudden NT is responsible for those plugins in terms of support, and I see that as more of a problem.

I can imagine clearance sales as "LightWave 3D As We Know It"(tm) fades away though. Low prices, no updates - something like that.

Then again, this is just my opinion (and certainly not something we've discussed here internally either).

Cheers,
Mike

Nemoid
09-08-2009, 11:57 AM
I don't think Newtek has the resources to keep up developing a 9.6, plus LwHC and CORE, both in terms of money but even more, programmers.

If Newtek puts a programmer onto 9.6 same ėprogrammer cannot work on CORE development, and what's needed for CORE is to make it develop as rapidly as possible while doing a careful work.

IMO They will develop LwHC and CORE. LW HC will be the full fledged version of Lw with updates to support CORE, so some new things will see light right there, to be then transferred directly into CORE later in time.

9.6 could may see some bug fix but nothing really major. some bundle would be possible, sort of repackaging as i said, but i dunno if sales would be great.

Chuck
09-08-2009, 01:00 PM
yes...NewTek still haven't clarified who is entitled to 9.6 bug fixes, it was hinted that only HC members would get it, but I've hit so many roadblocks over the past couple of weeks that I won't be sticking with LW unless there's a bug fix.

We've never hinted that 9.6.x bugfix updates would be limited to HardCORE members, but the confusion over the issue may result from the fact that there was consideration of reserving the Cocoa conversion to HardCORE members, while providing a maintenance update without Cocoa for v9 owners who have not yet signed up for HardCORE membership. Subsequently, however, management decided to include the Cocoa conversion in the maintenance update, free for all v9 owners.

We've also been giving status reports on the update in the Mac Support forum, and expect to launch v9.6.1 Open Beta sometime this month. My understanding is that folks already signed up for Open Beta will be good to go when the OB launches, and v9 owners who have not signed up for a previous Open Beta will be able to sign up for this one, when it is launched.

If you have been experiencing problems and have not been able to resolve them with Tech Support, or Tech Support has determined that the issue is a bug, please do report any such bugs to our bug report database, as we will continue working on fixes through the Open Beta period for the maintenance update.

biliousfrog
09-08-2009, 02:29 PM
We've never hinted that 9.6.x bugfix updates would be limited to HardCORE members, but the confusion over the issue may result from the fact that there was consideration of reserving the Cocoa conversion to HardCORE members, while providing a maintenance update without Cocoa for v9 owners who have not yet signed up for HardCORE membership. Subsequently, however, management decided to include the Cocoa conversion in the maintenance update, free for all v9 owners.

We've also been giving status reports on the update in the Mac Support forum, and expect to launch v9.6.1 Open Beta sometime this month. My understanding is that folks already signed up for Open Beta will be good to go when the OB launches, and v9 owners who have not signed up for a previous Open Beta will be able to sign up for this one, when it is launched.

If you have been experiencing problems and have not been able to resolve them with Tech Support, or Tech Support has determined that the issue is a bug, please do report any such bugs to our bug report database, as we will continue working on fixes through the Open Beta period for the maintenance update.

The 'hints' that I was referring to were the announcements that joining Hardcore would entitle you to 9.6 updates...suggesting that not joining Hardcore wouldn't entitle you to 9.6 updates. I didn't see any clarification on that point when it was first mentioned.

I have been submitting bugs over the past few weeks although I wasn't sure whether to expect to see any fixes as I didn't know what the plans for 9.6 were...though it might have helped in development for CORE. It's great to hear that Lightwave is still being supported and I hope that it can keep me afloat long enough for a bigger ship to come along...whatever that may be.

probiner
09-08-2009, 02:41 PM
LOL cresshead wants a LW Gold Edtion collection to put in the shelf and show his friends at dinner parties =D

hrgiger
09-08-2009, 03:16 PM
My understanding is that 9.6 will continue to be supported as long as CORE needs to be fully standalone, but will receive no new feature growth.

Kuzey
09-08-2009, 03:41 PM
My understanding is that 9.6 will continue to be supported as long as CORE needs to be fully standalone, but will receive no new feature growth.

That's my understanding as well.

But..what if the Core gets some new surface nodes that 9.6.x can't understand. You either add those nodes to 9.6.x (a feature) or find a way to only have it work if the Core is installed (not a feature for non Core members).

It will be interesting to see how it plays out :D

Kuzey

Chuck
09-08-2009, 03:41 PM
The 'hints' that I was referring to were the announcements that joining Hardcore would entitle you to 9.6 updates...suggesting that not joining Hardcore wouldn't entitle you to 9.6 updates. I didn't see any clarification on that point when it was first mentioned.

I have been submitting bugs over the past few weeks although I wasn't sure whether to expect to see any fixes as I didn't know what the plans for 9.6 were...though it might have helped in development for CORE. It's great to hear that Lightwave is still being supported and I hope that it can keep me afloat long enough for a bigger ship to come along...whatever that may be.

From the General FAQ on the CORE pages (http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/core/faq.php), though I think Marketing went a bit too terse on this:


Will bug fixes continue to be free?

Yes.

The intent was to let folks know that bugfixes are still free, and Jay and I mentioned many times in many places that there was a maintenance release in the works for v9.6, and that it would be free to all v9 owners.

hrgiger
09-08-2009, 03:45 PM
That's my understanding as well.

But..what if the Core gets some new surface nodes that 9.6.x can't understand. You either add those nodes to 9.6.x (a feature) or find a way to only have it work if the Core is installed (not a feature for non Core members).

It will be interesting to see how it plays out :D

Kuzey

True. I think the old LW to CORE transition will be awkward in places and there may just be some things that you just can't send between the programs.

If I had a sleep chamber, I'd climb into it for the next few years...

Chuck
09-08-2009, 03:49 PM
My understanding is that 9.6 will continue to be supported as long as CORE needs to be fully standalone, but will receive no new feature growth.

Apologies, we really haven't communicated about this much outside of HardCORE yet, but it is not the case that what is going forward with LWCORE is v9.6.

LightWave HC is current designation for the enhanced version of LightWave 3D that will be the companion for LightWave CORE, while CORE grows for the next few years. It has some new features, mainly for communicating with CORE right now, but there will be more, and internally it is versioned at v10. While a majority of our development effort is going into CORE as the new, unified application, we will also be enhancing LightWave 3D (or HC, if we keep that designation) where it makes the best sense to do so for the needs of our LightWave users.

It is also the case that we have one more v9.x update in the works, tentatively designated v9.6.1. It has a lot of bug fixes in place, as well as the long-awaited Cocoa code conversion which allows for a 64-bit Mac UB LightWave build to join the fold. As noted in my earlier post on this thread, we expect that to begin Open Beta sometime this month.

LightWave HC also includes the Cocoa conversion and a 64-bit Mac version.

littlewaves
09-08-2009, 04:03 PM
LightWave HC is the companion for LightWave CORE

it just gets more and more confusing.

wake me up before you go go

Kuzey
09-08-2009, 04:25 PM
So Chuck, 9.6.1 will be the end of line for non HC members. 9.6.2 and above will be Lightwave HC and only for HC members..correct?

I suppect the Cocoa version will fall somewhere in bewteen, depending on 9.6.1 being rock stable. If it's still buggy...then it warrents further development and it will get it ?

Kuzey

GraphXs
09-08-2009, 05:26 PM
Well it does sound like LW HC is and will be LW10. Is newtek planning on marketing it with "Core as the sidekick" or is it the other way around?

adamredwoods
09-08-2009, 05:35 PM
So Chuck, 9.6.1 will be the end of line for non HC members. 9.6.2 and above will be Lightwave HC and only for HC members..correct?

I suppect the Cocoa version will fall somewhere in bewteen, depending on 9.6.1 being rock stable. If it's still buggy...then it warrents further development and it will get it ?

Kuzey

That makes sense to me. They will only modify Lightwave HC for use with Core, since Core will eventually replace LWHC. This means that LWHC will offer nothing new as a stand alone unit, and may not even work anymore as a standalone. I'd see it as a standalone renderer/animator of sorts, or modded as a plugin to LW Core.

Disclaimer: This is my guess and I am usually bad at guessing.

Chuck
09-08-2009, 05:35 PM
So Chuck, 9.6.1 will be the end of line for non HC members. 9.6.2 and above will be Lightwave HC and only for HC members..correct?

I suppect the Cocoa version will fall somewhere in bewteen, depending on 9.6.1 being rock stable. If it's still buggy...then it warrents further development and it will get it ?

Kuzey

We expect that 9.6.1 will be the last 9.x release, and no other release would have a 9.6.x designation unless we decided another maintenance update was needed, for example for more stabilization of the Cocoa work in v9.6.1. If we did such a maintenance update, that would be free for v9 users. LightWave HC is versioned 10.0, as mentioned above, and future versions will increment up from there.

Chuck
09-08-2009, 05:37 PM
That makes sense to me. They will only modify Lightwave HC for use with Core, since Core will eventually replace LWHC. This means that LWHC will offer nothing new as a stand alone unit, and may not even work anymore as a standalone. I'd see it as a standalone renderer/animator of sorts, or modded as a plugin to LW Core.

Disclaimer: This is my guess and I am usually bad at guessing.

Your luck with guessing is holding, so far. ;)

Again, as noted, there are other new features already planned for LWHC, and others will be considered where it makes the best sense to do so. There are no plans to disable from operating standalone as LightWave 3D has previously done.

Kuzey
09-09-2009, 07:46 AM
Interesting...so in theory, we could have a PC version at 9.6.1 and a Mac Cocoa version at 9.6.2 or maybe 9.7(if there are major bugs left to kill). Then we have the LWHC(basically Layout v10),which will continue until integrated into the Core...with a new Render engine and Animation tools etc. along the way.

Chuck....what's the timeframe you guys are hoping for the 9.6.X beta cycle. Will it last until the end of the year or is it going to be shorter, 6 weeks or so??

Kuzey

Nemoid
09-09-2009, 04:43 PM
so to sum it up:
Lw 9.6.1 = update of current Lw (non HC) this will have cocoa version for mac 64 bit very probably last Lw version.
Lw HC(v10) = a diffferent version of Lw updated to work with CORE as seen in Pdeform vid.
LWCORE, which is the unified app, that will become full fledged as time passes.

MUCUS
10-12-2009, 09:20 AM
Something I want to ask about:

Let's say I'm buying LWCore (from nothing or from a 9.x licence), will Lightwave HC comes with LWCore license or must I pay for both?

Then could I access to Lightwave HC without buying Core, as a normal Lightwave upgrade?

(Excuse me if I'm asking something you have already answered)

Kuzey
10-12-2009, 11:52 AM
Something I want to ask about:

Let's say I'm buying LWCore (from nothing or from a 9.x licence), will Lightwave HC comes with LWCore license or must I pay for both?

Then could I access to Lightwave HC without buying Core, as a normal Lightwave upgrade?

(Excuse me if I'm asking something you have already answered)

Lightwave HC comes with LWCore, LWHC will only exist until LWCore becomes a standalone app :)


Kuzey

MUCUS
10-12-2009, 01:05 PM
Thank you Kuzey, so I guess that's mean that Lightwave HC will be only accessible through a Core license? (Or maybe it's too early to know something about that?)

hrgiger
10-12-2009, 01:07 PM
Pretty much as I understand it, yes. The whole reason HC exists is to be a companion for CORE until, as Kuzey pointed out, CORE can do everything that Lightwave can (and more).

IMI
10-12-2009, 03:22 PM
yes...NewTek still haven't clarified who is entitled to 9.6 bug fixes, it was hinted that only HC members would get it, but I've hit so many roadblocks over the past couple of weeks that I won't be sticking with LW unless there's a bug fix.

Check out the Softimage 2010 demo, if you haven't already. That's where I'm going, at least, maybe for good, unless LW CORE really knocks my socks off, like XSI 2010 has.
Of course, that's not going to be for another few years...

One interesting thing I've noticed about SI 2010 is that the hair seems to work consistently, quickly, and nicely, unlike certain other 3D packages I won't mention here. :D
And the fact that Syflex is included is very cool, not to mention overall better dynamics AND if that weren't enough, Face frickin' Robot too.

My only complaint about SI is no IES lights.

And since cresshead started this thread, I probably ought to mention that I've been seriously checking out 3ds Max 2010, and it's becoming a strong contender for my next major 3D purchase. I'd have never expected myself to actually enjoy using Max... XSI is still in the lead though, mostly because I prefer the interface. And of course, Face frickin' Robot. ;)

But back to the topic of this thread... LW 10? If it hasn't already been mentioned, isn't that what that "special" 9.x will be to be used with CORE?
As for a LW "10" version for us unwashed, undeserving huddling masses, no, I'd prefer to see them concentrate on CORE and get that right and finished, as soon as possible.
Of course in the meantime, it would be cool if someone fixed FiberFX for those of us who were led to believe it was actually finished and working...

AbnRanger
10-13-2009, 01:47 AM
Personally, I think what AD did with Maya 2010 was terrific...they just weren't ready for a major release, so to add value, they added $4000 worth of software to the deal and dropped the price significantly.

Sure, some people are going to moan about it, but many small studios are probably giddy about it. Toxic is an extremely capable compositor. And it's MatchMover, not RealViz that was added with Maya. Likewise, a LW10 bundle would do one thing well, even if it didn't please everyone...and that is....generate some much needed buzz around LW.
I really think they should offer 2 versions. Standard and Production (or XTreme). Standard w/o plugins (maybe HD Instance or TrueArt's Modeling pack). And I think it should center around LW plugins...with the sole exception being 3D Coat. 3DC already looks like a LW module, and has many LW centric capabilities (like export to LWO and having nodes already set up for you).

If Newtek can get an amicable deal to bundle FPrime (3.5), HD Instance, TrueArt Modeling pack, and 3DC, and offer it for roughly $1495-$1695, I believe they could generate some marketing buzz and and in turn, get some much needed revenue coming in. In effect, Newtek would be brokering a sweet plugin deal for new buyers, and it also sets them up for that many more CORE customers.

It's a win for all parties involved, IMHO. The 3rd party dev's would have to negotiate a lower price/license, but that is offset by a much larger volume of licenses sold overall. I think it could also help Andrew (3DC) gain some ground on ZBrush and Mudbox...more market saturation=more market recognition. More than anything, it says "We're not going black...we're Alive and Kicking...and we have you covered (with LW 10/10XT) all the way through CORE's development stages."

It's really no different than what AD has been doing...especially with Maya.
And I'll say one more thing about such a bundle...3DC continues to be developed at such a rapid pace, they can't even keep the training materials up to speed. You literally get a handful of new features and bugfixes once or twice a week...and with a wave of new LW users chiming in on it's development, it would grow even more LW-friendly. So, you would have at least that portion of the software providing constant updates/feature additions. One of which is an overhauled UV toolset, which already includes the newest ABF++ Unwrapping algorithim. 3DC would serve as a MAJOR feature addition to a LW bundle.

Nemoid
10-13-2009, 02:30 AM
LwHC will remain as a companion of CORE, untill it is ready to stand on its own (me guessing, 2, 3 years at least)
Very probably users wanting to use Lw as it is now will have a Lw 9.6.1 or 9.6.x which could be last version, could also see some bug fix, but no major changements, while people wanting to go ahead (at least , in time) will adhere to HardCOREand get LwHC+CORE.

It will be forcely a transition period, but it's not like Lw 9.6 isn't a capable app. I think it can resist at least for 2 years. In the meantime, its clear that CORE must progress as rapidly as possible, but since there's no magic wand in this world, some time is actually required.

I personally think that CORE development and interest will be boosted also from plugins, since external developers, due to CORE very open structure, will be able to code lots of things for it, differently from what they can do for Lw as it is now.

p.s. about 3D Coat: the app is progressing very well and programmer is always fast as hell. A bundle with LW could be great.

Tho, I think it should stabilize a bit, be refined and polished taking into great account performance, and as said, refinement of what's in the app now. Now Andrew is working into UV tools and this is something great, due to the fact nor Mudbox or ZBrush have traditional UV tools. :D