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IMI
09-05-2009, 09:54 PM
What's the difference between bones and joints in LW?
I can see what the physical difference is obviously, but do joints have some major advantage over bones?
It seems like joints are a little more refined, less touchy, but I can't really tell.

EDIT- Unless I'm missing something it seems like you can't use weight maps for joints. I select a weight map for the associated joint's bone and it's causing the joint to have no effect at all.

Dexter2999
09-05-2009, 10:53 PM
ftp://ftp.newtek.com/multimedia/movies/LW_9/Layout_IntroBones.mov

I haven't watched recently but I think there was something about Joints being stretchy and useful for toon stuff over tradtional bones.

evenflcw
09-05-2009, 11:01 PM
For joints you can select either the joint part (ball shaped) or the bone part (classic-bone shaped). To edit any joint/bone deformation settings, you have to select the bone part.

Joints have a number of things that can be advantageous. There's twisting, where if you bank the child joint it can give you a smooth twist along the bones length. (select bone part, activate Twist, set to 100%). There's stretching thanks to the bone orientation and length being derived from the position of the parent and child joint. ...

Castius
09-05-2009, 11:30 PM
I would avoid 100% weighting with joints. Just use zBones, because with 100% weighting all you need is a transform.
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showpost.php?p=805385&postcount=2

Joints have twist deformation. This can greatly improve wrist deformation in characters. Joints are also not limited to extra deformation on just the P axis. So you can use compensation and muscle flexing on P or H. Joints have automatic rest length.

IMI
09-06-2009, 12:40 AM
Oh cool, thanks for all the information. :)

WCameron
09-06-2009, 09:18 AM
[QUOTE=Castius;922879]I would avoid 100% weighting with joints. Just use zBones, because with 100% weighting all you need is a transform.
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showpost.php?p=805385&postcount=2
[SNIP]

Is that a link to the Beta forums? Everytime i click on it i get a You Dont Have Permission To Access That Page notice.

- Will.

Castius
09-06-2009, 09:51 AM
Opps. Ya the OpenBeta forum.


Erikals: joint bones, how are they?

Castius:
They work well if you understand them and know how to stay within there limits.

Once you get used you how you need to select them. There area few things you need to know. The number one mistake is the idea that you can just move joints around to tweek the position. This can produce improper rotation information. Because your joints will no longer be aligned. The second thing you need to know is the fact that you need one more joint at the end of a chain. The third thing to know is that if you use "weight map only" you need to deal with joints with more than one child. Only one joint can be active. So on the hand if you have multiple fingers. Only one of then can be active if you have a hand weight map. Or parent the fingers to a null and then parent the null to the wrist. Bones tool work on them but you need to know they were not updated to understand joints so there display gizmos don't behave as you would expect. Protons video on this subject is very helpful.

Other than that you can just use them as if they were bones.