PDA

View Full Version : WWII anniversary



T-Light
09-03-2009, 09:42 PM
Something struck me tonight,

There's an awful lot being said about Micheal Jackson, very little said about the anniversary of WWII.

One of the guys brought in to handle Hitlers phone calls had some things to say. His words on Mengels Children are enough to chill the heart. Seems in the media world it's rather irrreleveant to a pop stars funeral.

Sorry for Micheal Jackson fans, but this is worth a read...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8234018.stm

revengeofmonty
09-04-2009, 12:32 AM
Oh? I thought there was quite a bit of coverage actually.....having said that, I don't own a TV, so my frame of reference is the internet and whatever newspapers I come across.

Matt
09-04-2009, 12:39 AM
I watched a short documentary on it last night. Those air raid sirens still creep me out, can't imagine what it must have been like hearing those go off for real.

But in the words of Basil Fawlty, "don't mention the war"!

JBT27
09-04-2009, 03:09 PM
I can't imagine it either, and I don't believe anyone can who wasn't there.

It's slipping into cold history, and perhaps that's the problem - we're witnessing what happens when one of humankind's greatest wars slides out of living memory.

My Dad, as a 9 year old, clearly remembers that day and the famous radio broadcast, but that's all he said this week on the day itself, that it's as clear as if it were yesterday.

My Mum often recounted the memory, as a 12 year old, of running from the house very early one morning, the roofs and ground shaking and the sky dark with planes, all heading south. That memory was recounted in 2005 at her funeral, by the reverend who we all realised was wearing the badge of the Normandy Veterans - I remember the look in his eyes as he read that memory, and wondered what he must have seen that day.

But, to very many for right now, Michael Jackson is immediate and far more important, as with everything else. WWII for all it's horror and achievement, is now history, and an awful lot of people don't see how or why that should affect them or why they should care. It belongs to their parents and grandparents, and even then we are talking about the generation now around 50 or so.

There was some coverage, but I also thought it went by somewhat quietly.

Julian.

DiedonD
09-05-2009, 04:19 AM
I think it shouldve been covered more than that perhaps. And its good that were going through it here, so as to bring more coverage sort of speak.

My Uncle was a kid when his family members were fighting Nazzis in Gjakova, another city of Kosova.

The country was split back then.

You had Albanians fighting in a joint Partizan war with Serbs against Nazzis. They have come to regret that today actually

While other Albanians protected the fleeding Jews that were trying to hide and came inside an Albanian house. Now, by the code, anyone at anytime can come as a guest for a visit! And by the code that meant that Jews were guests to an Albanian house, and were treated like any other guest - protection included! Protection within the house 100%, even be it at the cost of the whole house family members. But should the day of their liberation come, then another protection of the form of escort until their desired destination was also a code and a honorable cultural practice.

Come to think of it, there are two downfalls from such a high position of beeing a guest. I wonder if any Jew member did practice it by mistake without knowing it!

Anyway...

Then you had Albanian SS Nazzi members that considered the Nazzis as liberators from terrifying oppression from Serbs. Since Roma, Slavs and Jews were on their agenda, Albanians were intact then. And since Slavs were targeted they seemed as liberators. An enemy of my enemy ordeal.

But there was even more to it than that. Only two German bikers were commanding Prizren for instance! Under them there was enough freedom for one to carry arms freely and speak out loud their language as well as practice whichever belief and culture they freely would choose, not to mention a sudden release from discrimination and oppression.

But as good as it may have seem, as my Jewish proffessor said: "Well great then, should they have had their way, you wouldve been last to go!" :D

But I can imagine the roaring airplanes that filled the sky and the wall and ground shacking of bombs easier than you I guess. With the only difference that we met the bombing with crying joy rather than with terror. Germans airplanes roared here in 1999 aswell, but it was to a noble cause this time, to save people from oppresion rather than be a cause to it.

It was the ones that were terrorizing that found it terrifying this time. Ironically, from Germans again!

probiner
09-05-2009, 04:50 AM
Those air raid sirens still creep me out, can't imagine what it must have been like hearing those go off for real.
Its like the terror, before the horror.

At 12:00 hours here the fireman play a siren just like those we see in the WWII movies...

Always creeps me out. Bombing? End of the World? No... just 12:00. Imagine an old man that had been in war that have to put up with this everyday at 12:00...

As for the anniversary

DiedonD
09-05-2009, 04:53 AM
At 12:00 hours here the fireman play a siren just like those we see in the WWII movies...

Always creeps me out. Bombing? End of the World? No... just 12:00. Imagine an old man that had been in war that have to put up with this everyday at 12:00...


Why does the fireman plays a sirene similar to the ones in WW2 movies in Portugal at 12.00?

Is it to commemorate WW2? Or did it happen by coincedence and it reminded you of it?

What was Portugals position in WW2?

probiner
09-05-2009, 05:07 AM
Diedond don't ask me why... Portugal used to ring the church bells at 12.00 and 18.30 or so. Ppl would know the time and labour schedules byt that.

But my local fireman siren for noon sounds just like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYgwCWTWwCw#t=0m28s

Probably they simple use a modern model of this siren design.


Portugal was neutral in war. Many came here to get on a boat to U.S.A.

Still, we lived in a Dictatorship at the time. But our connections with UK were always strong. So i think the governament at the time would followed the Axis vision but the realtionships with the Allies countrys were older. Still we had a lot of german gold here, i don't know if its still here.

We had our "Schindler" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes.

Cheers

DiedonD
09-05-2009, 05:26 AM
Diedond don't ask me why... Portugal used to ring the church bells at 12.00 and 18.30 or so. Ppl would know the time and labour schedules byt that.

But my local fireman siren for noon sounds just like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYgwCWTWwCw#t=0m28s

Probably they simple use a modern model of this siren design.


Portugal was neutral in war. Many came here to get on a boat to U.S.A.

We had our "Schindler" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristides_de_Sousa_Mendes.

Cheers

Just was curious to the relation between sirenece and WW2 in Portugal!

Oh right, the very same was used here to alarm the city during the good bombings aswell.

JBT27
09-05-2009, 05:36 AM
I think it shouldve been covered more than that perhaps. And its good that were going through it here, so as to bring more coverage sort of speak.

My Uncle was a kid when his family members were fighting Nazzis in Gjakova, another city of Kosova.

The country was split back then.

You had Albanians fighting in a joint Partizan war with Serbs against Nazzis. They have come to regret that today actually

While other Albanians protected the fleeding Jews that were trying to hide and came inside an Albanian house. Now, by the code, anyone at anytime can come as a guest for a visit! And by the code that meant that Jews were guests to an Albanian house, and were treated like any other guest - protection included! Protection within the house 100%, even be it at the cost of the whole house family members. But should the day of their liberation come, then another protection of the form of escort until their desired destination was also a code and a honorable cultural practice.

Come to think of it, there are two downfalls from such a high position of beeing a guest. I wonder if any Jew member did practice it by mistake without knowing it!

Anyway...

Then you had Albanian SS Nazzi members that considered the Nazzis as liberators from terrifying oppression from Serbs. Since Roma, Slavs and Jews were on their agenda, Albanians were intact then. And since Slavs were targeted they seemed as liberators. An enemy of my enemy ordeal.

But there was even more to it than that. Only two German bikers were commanding Prizren for instance! Under them there was enough freedom for one to carry arms freely and speak out loud their language as well as practice whichever belief and culture they freely would choose, not to mention a sudden release from discrimination and oppression.

But as good as it may have seem, as my Jewish proffessor said: "Well great then, should they have had their way, you wouldve been last to go!" :D

But I can imagine the roaring airplanes that filled the sky and the wall and ground shacking of bombs easier than you I guess. With the only difference that we met the bombing with crying joy rather than with terror. Germans airplanes roared here in 1999 aswell, but it was to a noble cause this time, to save people from oppresion rather than be a cause to it.

It was the ones that were terrorizing that found it terrifying this time. Ironically, from Germans again!

I have to admit that I simply cannot imagine it, and I guess that makes me and almost everyone in the UK very fortunate indeed. To me, it's pure history, though tinged very much with personal stories from my family, albeit from 60-70 years ago.

The German irony can hardly be lost on anyone, especially in Europe. In the context of longer term history though, I suspect it will be no great surprise. Rome, Britain and hosts of others have had empires and been both aggressor and saviour - it must surely be one of the great ironies of human existence, but only one to be viewed at a great distance in time.

The saddest part of it all is that I seriously doubt we have seen the end of such things, nor will we for centuries perhaps. We can't help what we are, not for now anyway.

Julian.

DiedonD
09-05-2009, 06:45 AM
The saddest part of it all is that I seriously doubt we have seen the end of such things, nor will we for centuries perhaps. We can't help what we are, not for now anyway.

Julian.

Your army knows the sound of those bombs! :D

But I think NATO proved to be involved in fighting oppression and dictatorship in more than one occasion. It is the step forward! The Global solution to a Global end!

Be warned! You do that, and the noble allies shall join against ya!

JBT27
09-05-2009, 07:03 AM
Your army knows the sound of those bombs! :D

But I think NATO proved to be involved in fighting oppression and dictatorship in more than one occasion. It is the step forward! The Global solution to a Global end!

Be warned! You do that, and the noble allies shall join against ya!

I was discounting the army etc ..... because that's what they do!

Allies and enemies - interchangeable is that ..... all it needs is time.

Julian.

DiedonD
09-05-2009, 07:20 AM
Allies and enemies - interchangeable is that ..... all it needs is time.

Julian.

You mean time for everyone to fill in the proper conditions to enter NATO?

There was always something about NATO that seemed unlcear to me!

So all the NATO nations are untouchable by the rest of the worlds nations, cause touch one and all unite against that one. Thats the treaty. One as all.

But what happens if two countries WITHIN NATO start at it?

JBT27
09-05-2009, 07:35 AM
You mean time for everyone to fill in the proper conditions to enter NATO?

There was always something about NATO that seemed unlcear to me!

So all the NATO nations are untouchable by the rest of the worlds nations, cause touch one and all unite against that one. Thats the treaty. One as all.

But what happens if two countries WITHIN NATO start at it?

No, I was being more esoteric and more along the lines of the irony that is Germany, as we said earlier.

However, you are quite right about NATO - I wouldn't suggest it's dangerous, but it was a club set-up for a specific purpose, and treaties like that are what started the First World War, but then such treaties have started many wars, right back to Classical times.

What happens if two NATO members start at it? Probably a crap load of diplomacy to stop it escalating into a full scale war. I don't see that happening anyway between the traditional enemies of the 20th century, who have in any case been at one time enemies and other times allies.

With so much religious intolerance, I think the stage is now bigger and more dangerous than ever. If a NATO member fails to step up when called upon, what happens then? Do they get invaded by the US? If two European members square-off, does the US intervene there? Do they even care?

Julian.

DiedonD
09-05-2009, 07:44 AM
What happens if two NATO members start at it? Probably a crap load of diplomacy to stop it escalating into a full scale war. I don't see that happening anyway between the traditional enemies of the 20th century, who have in any case been at one time enemies and other times allies.

With so much religious intolerance, I think the stage is now bigger and more dangerous than ever. If a NATO member fails to step up when called upon, what happens then? Do they get invaded by the US? If two European members square-off, does the US intervene there? Do they even care?

Julian.

We better pick a scenario. Oh I dont know... Here!

Israel enters NATO. But they come to disagree with Germany after the ordeal in WW2! No amount of diplomacy works! And they start having a war! The war is at its beggining stage, but they are both NATO allied countries with equal rights, and are inside the Treaty!

Whats the Protocol to that?

We have millitary personel, here at our forum, Serge included. Hope they enter here to provide an explanation, since it was their proffession.

But let that not hold the dynamics in this thread. If they wont step forward, and someone has an explanation, dont await it, cause wed like to hear you?

akademus
09-05-2009, 11:31 AM
Something struck me tonight,

There's an awful lot being said about Micheal Jackson, very little said about the anniversary of WWII.

One of the guys brought in to handle Hitlers phone calls had some things to say. His words on Mengels Children are enough to chill the heart. Seems in the media world it's rather irrreleveant to a pop stars funeral.

Sorry for Micheal Jackson fans, but this is worth a read...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8234018.stm

It reminded me. I went earlier this year in the historical place in the city of Jajce where in 1943 new communist Yugoslavia was set up on the Second Avnoj meeting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVNOJ).

They even let me sit on the same place were Josip Broz Tito (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josip_Broz_Tito) was sitting!

This is how it looked then and now!

Titus
09-05-2009, 04:32 PM
Something struck me tonight,

There's an awful lot being said about Micheal Jackson, very little said about the anniversary of WWII.

I was in France for the 60th anniversary of the D-day, lots of events, even the queen was there.

borkus
09-06-2009, 05:02 PM
akademus, that's an awesome thing to have been able to be a part of. I love going to sites that have a historical imprint for the ages and actually be able to interact with the environment as if it were that day in time...

cresshead
09-06-2009, 05:38 PM
give it 10 to 20 years and you will have some people saying that wwII never happened and that the footage is made up 'visual effects'..as soon as all the people who were 'in it' have gone it'll just be down to books, museums and dvd's.

most young people have no conept of life without the net and visual effects trickery so for them anything is possible.

probiner
09-06-2009, 06:14 PM
10-20 years?

There are people saying today that the WWII sistematic genocide never took place.

Tough the war itself is a genocide.

akademus
09-07-2009, 01:48 AM
akademus, that's an awesome thing to have been able to be a part of. I love going to sites that have a historical imprint for the ages and actually be able to interact with the environment as if it were that day in time...

Yes! Sitting there I could almost visualize the meeting. Made me wish I was there at such historical moment.


give it 10 to 20 years and you will have some people saying that wwII never happened and that the footage is made up 'visual effects'..as soon as all the people who were 'in it' have gone it'll just be down to books, museums and dvd's.

most young people have no conept of life without the net and visual effects trickery so for them anything is possible.

That is truly sad. When I'm about to travel somewhere, I try to watch as less footage I can about the place. Also, when I'm there I give my best to use a camera as less as I can.


10-20 years?

There are people saying today that the WWII sistematic genocide never took place.

Tough the war itself is a genocide.

War is always a terrible thing. Sometimes it makes it difficult to tell sides apart. It makes me think that WWII was the last war to have an actual winner.