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IMI
08-27-2009, 11:30 AM
I'm having to completely redo the UVs for a figure I've been given to work on.
Now what I have is the original mesh with the UVs removed and my new mesh with my new UV map. The problem is, I had to make some adjustments to the mesh in order to get at some of the areas I wanted to have seams in, such as spread out the toes, pull out the lips some, pull the teeth away from the gums and all that sort of thing. Nothing major though, and the point and poly count on both models are still identical.

So now I need to know, is there a way in Modeler to transfer the UVs from my new mesh to the original? I would have thought that "Copy UVs" and then "Paste UVs" would do that, but not so.
I tried to use the original mesh as a morph target so as to get the shape back in the new mesh, but it just hangs when I try that. Maybe too many polygons or points in the model, maybe I'm just doing something wrong, I don't know. But I have used imported models for endomorphs many many times in the past without problems, so I really don't know what to think about this or why it doesn't work for me now.

So that leaves me only with the option of transferring the UVs from one to the other. Any suggestions?

Thanks. :)

probiner
08-27-2009, 12:01 PM
If you have same pointand poly count, and same point order Copy paste UV's work and Morph Background work.
I don't understand what you mean by "but it just hangs when I try that"

If point order not the same, just use Rekniter (http://www.flay.com/plugs/downloads/Rekniter.p) to fix that.

Copy/Paste UV's work better i think if you Unweld everything, apply the plugin and then merge all points.


Cheers

IMI
08-27-2009, 12:14 PM
Thanks again, I'll give that a try again, but when I try to paste UVs I just get a message saying "please select a current UV texture map". Well, the model I'm trying to paste to doesn't have a "current UV texture map". Otherwise I wouldn't need to do this. ;)
But before trying to paste, of course I selected the UV map and selected Copy UVs. Seems at that point it should know that when I select the other model and use Paste UVs, that I want to paste the UVs I just copied.

I do know how to use the background to morph tool, but like I said, Modeler just hangs on this model. Hangs as in, non-responsive, Ctrl+Alt+Del, bye for now, seeya later. ;)
There's no reason why the point order should have changed, since I never did anything to it to cause that. But even if it had, it would most likely still create a morph, although a messed up one, being that the vertex count is still the same.

IMI
08-27-2009, 12:33 PM
Never mind. Problem solved. My earlier version of the model now has the updated UVs, snug and cozy in their new home and all is well in UV Land.

The solution?
I remembered something I saw in a Digital Tutors video I bought a while ago. Cued up the video, ran it and found the part I needed.... and so I used Maya. Worked perfectly, in seconds. :)

probiner
08-27-2009, 12:47 PM
Maybe im exagerating but to Copy/Paste Uv's work properly here it goes:

1-Go to UV model. Unweld all points. Select all polygons and select the UV. Run Copy UVs.
2-Go to target mesh. Uweld all points. Create a UV map with no Initial Value and let it selected. Select all polygons. Run Paste UV. Merge Points.

The problem in your situation is that the Paste thing need a recipient to past the data, even if it is empty.
But... glad you managed it =)

IMI
08-27-2009, 12:50 PM
Thank you, probiner, again. :)
I just copied that to a text file so I can try it out later. I do prefer to work in only one app for things like this, and my Maya demo will expire eventually anyway. ;)

IMI
08-28-2009, 09:07 AM
Probiner,
That "Rekniter" plugin you linked to - how does it work?
I try it and it says to select at least 2 polygons, if nothing's selected. And then when used it does...whatever it does, and then just tells me "Reknitting was completed!"
What is it actually doing?
There are no instructions with it in the zip file, so any information you have on it would be much appreciated. :)
But I do need to know what it's doing because this model is someone else's and I really shouldn't be altering the mesh at all. I'm only supposed to remap it and leave everything else as-is.

I'm going to need something, because Modeler seems to be reordering my points when it pastes in the new UVs. At least I think that's what's happening.

By the way, your instructions for copying/pasting the UVs worked perfectly, so thanks again. :)

EDIT:
It's nothing crucial for now, because my Maya UV transfer worked fine, but I'd like to know for future reference.

probiner
08-28-2009, 09:33 AM
Ok, here it goes.
Imagine you have 2 equal meshes(distorted or not) but different point order thats giving you problems. Select 2 polygons in one mesh, run rekniter, and you get a point order (new one). Select the same equivelent polygons in the other mesh (same order i think), run rekniter, and you get the same new point order of the other mesh. This some time is usefull for UV copying and pasting, but is crucial for morph maps, as in use of Bkg to Morph.

Cheers

Oh almost forgot. Use this before copying and pasting UV. After will destroy the UV i think.

IMI
08-28-2009, 10:39 AM
Thank you. :)

So it changes the point order on the original mesh? That's not good, that's what I'm trying to avoid. That's what I have to avoid.
Is there anything that can read the point order in a mesh, remember it, and then restore it if it gets messed up?

probiner
08-28-2009, 11:49 AM
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40599

Simply easier than UV Edit copy and paste.

Just copy and paste, no unweld/merge and point order concerns =O

Only 32bit Win version tough =\

IMI
08-28-2009, 11:53 AM
Thanks again, I'll check it out. :)

IMI
08-29-2009, 08:18 AM
Well that plugin keeps telling me "cannot match polygons"
The polygon count on the two models is identical, the point count on the two models is identical, the symmetry on the two models is identical... the two models themselves are completely identical.

I'd hate to see it try to do it on a model that wasn't exactly like the copy. ;)

probiner
08-29-2009, 08:29 AM
Works here... i tryed to change a little the model and bamm "cannot match polygons"

So there must be something that you are not seeing.

(IMI goes out to light up a cigarrete, after a while, opens Maya...)

Cheers

IMI
08-29-2009, 08:49 AM
Works here... i tryed to change a little the model and bamm "cannot match polygons"

So there must be something that you are not seeing.

(IMI goes out to light up a cigarrete, after a while, opens Maya...)

Cheers

LOL!


Wait, are you saying it worked, or you got the "cannot match polygons" error too?

I did as it said, selected polygons, Copied UVs, selected my new model, then ran the Paste UVs. It thought about it for a few seconds and then gave me the error.
Nothing critical as I have my model all finished up anyway (thanks to Maya), but I'm experimenting for future purposes.

probiner
08-29-2009, 09:02 AM
I was saying that it worked for me.
Just that when i changed my model a tiny bit. Puff... can't match.

So poly and point match are not the only things. Also edge connections, so if you spin an edge(still, same polycount and vertex count), Booomm doesn't work.

How does it happen in Maya?

Cheers

IMI
08-29-2009, 09:17 AM
Oh I see.
Yeah, as I mentioned in my first post I had to alter the mesh a little to get at the edges better for UV mapping, so that makes sense now.
In Maya it doesn't matter. You just select the mesh that has the UVs then Shift-select the one that doesn't and then use the Transfer Attributes tool. It just copies the UVs perfectly, almost instantly, and it doesn't reorder points, or care about changes in topography.

They added UVs to Lightwave ten years ago and don't seem to have worried about it since...

probiner
08-29-2009, 09:32 AM
Changes you talk about in first post dont concern topology but transformations :P

XSI gator looks good =)

IMI
08-29-2009, 09:46 AM
Changes you talk about in first post dont concern topology but transformations :P

XSI gator looks good =)


Well OK... transformations then, not topology. :D

Still though, the changes were very minor, barely noticeable.

Yes, Softimage looks good.... and when it has GoZ I think it will look even better.... even better than Maya, perhaps...

probiner
08-29-2009, 10:21 AM
OOhhh now i get it, this last plugin, stuff has to be in same place. A little transformation and puff... The UV Edit copy/past didnt had that problem :\

lol so much talking for nothing xD

Cheers

IMI
08-29-2009, 10:44 AM
Too bad PLG doesn't have a transform/copy/paste UV plugin, I bet that would work without problems.
I just checked and there's nothing like that there at his site.

I checked Pictrix too, and nothing there for this either.

Not all this talking for nothing - you've been trying to help me and I do appreciate it much. :)

probiner
08-29-2009, 04:52 PM
I cracked it but its sooo boring ehehe.

Objects:
A - Pricipal object. B - New object with desired UV. Aw-Object A copy working file. Bw-object B copy working file.

Aw and Bw in a new file, in separate layers. Apply reknitter so they have same point order; and do a Background to Morph on object Bw targeting object Aw. Since this last copy/paste UVs plugin only look for identical space meshes, just copy the desired UV in object B to object Bw in base morph; then Apply Morph so it looks like objAw but keeps the UV. ObjAw and ObjA have same identical shape so you can copy the UV from morphed objBw to ObjA.

=) hooah IMI you read until this line, ahaha.

Works, but so tedius... =P

IMI
08-29-2009, 05:20 PM
=) hooah IMI you read until this line, ahaha.


And what's worse is that I understood it all. :D

I actually already thought of all that, but as I said earlier, the model in question hangs Modeler when trying BG to Morph. And I can't use Reknitter on it because it is verboten for me to change the point order.
But I'll definitely remember that for future purposes, for other models. It's good to know you can get around that plugin's problem
Thanks again. :)

Dodgy
08-30-2009, 09:32 AM
http://www.kanra-kanra.com/html/takeout.htm

Has a whole group of plugins for transferring vmaps from one object to another using point proximity.

dwburman
08-30-2009, 10:26 AM
You probably already know this so I'll throw this out for any newbies who may be reading.

You can morph an object (spread the toes, etc), make the UVs with the morph instead of the base, and then delete the morph. That way you can avoid this situation in the future.

Of course, it's an easy thing to forget to do when you just want to get in there and work on a model.

I'm glad you got it worked out. :)

probiner
08-30-2009, 02:55 PM
http://www.kanra-kanra.com/html/takeout.htm

Has a whole group of plugins for transferring vmaps from one object to another using point proximity.

Download buttons don't work =/

mn_DrainBGVMap was the one?

Cheers

IMI
08-30-2009, 05:53 PM
You probably already know this so I'll throw this out for any newbies who may be reading.

You can morph an object (spread the toes, etc), make the UVs with the morph instead of the base, and then delete the morph. That way you can avoid this situation in the future.

Of course, it's an easy thing to forget to do when you just want to get in there and work on a model.

I'm glad you got it worked out. :)

I'm not sure I follow you.
If I'm understanding you correctly, I was sooo close to doing that but didn't quite make the leap, and I worked on the whole model, figuring I had to do a UV transfer later from one to the other.
Doh. So I could have saved all that trouble? Oh boy... :o

EDIT:
I don't know if I mentioned it earlier or not and I don't feel like reading back, but I didn't just use LightWave for making the UV's. Could I still have done as you suggest, considering that? It seemed to me at the time a UV transfer was the only way.

IMI
08-30-2009, 05:55 PM
Download buttons don't work =/

mn_DrainBGVMap was the one?

Cheers

Yeah, they all 404.
Thanks anyway though, Dodgy. :)

Dodgy
08-30-2009, 07:40 PM
Okay since the page is dead, I've popped the plugin up in the Plugins>Third party area of my web page.

IMI
08-30-2009, 08:48 PM
Thank you!
I'll try that out. :)

dwburman
08-30-2009, 11:00 PM
If you're using another app to do the UVs (that doesn't support endomorphs) then I guess making a morph target in LW wouldn't work unless you saved the object out separately and then you'd be back to the situation you posted about. :)

probiner
08-31-2009, 03:46 AM
Okay since the page is dead, I've popped the plugin up in the Plugins>Third party area of my web page.

Thanks

I cant seem to drain UV texture, and the morphs i can but only the first time i run the plug. Other maps work fine.

:thumbsup:

probiner
10-02-2009, 08:36 AM
Retested this plug and had better results with morphs.
For Uv's i still can get good results, especially cause i have to break the seams in the same spot before transfer and i was trying to keep the model untouched, so no unweld and merge.

But still the result with morphs open some good possibilities for the UV's.

Thanks again for pointing them out Dodgy and for hosting them in your website.

Cheers

Dodgy
10-02-2009, 10:39 AM
Discontinuous maps are always going to be inherently a problem because which value do you map a particular point to? But for continuous areas they're really useful :)

Castius
10-02-2009, 05:53 PM
boneJack