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riki
08-26-2003, 07:32 PM
ASSET PROTECTION NEEDED

In light of things like this

re: http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10120

Would it be possible for Newtek to come up with some sort of asset protection stategy. Like users being able to embed copyright info into scene and object files? It would be great to workshop some ideas on this front. See the thread at

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10055

hrgiger
08-26-2003, 08:58 PM
I could see the need for it but I'm not sure it's Newtek's responsibility to guard our work.

Not arguing though. Nothing wrong with being able to imbed watermarks and such. Just don't want a developer taking time away from integrating that 3D paint I've been waiting for to work on a watermark system...;)

riki
08-26-2003, 09:09 PM
We were thinking about a more complete solution. Something that could embed copyright info into the code of an object.

Layout already has a watermark image filter and Photoshop has Digimarc.

Mylenium
08-26-2003, 11:45 PM
Well, the only way I see is really strong encryption.... Simply embedding meta info will not work reliably, especially since it could be easily removed from the file without damaging the geometry. It would be easy if we had history/ nodes for modeling (like Maya, MAX, XSI) - the protection/ encryption would simply have to be the first node and since all other nodes rely/ stack on that one you would get no model if that node is defunct. Still, this would leave the problem of how to exchange your public and private keys in a save way. This would still be the users responsibility.

Mylenium

Hervé
08-27-2003, 02:57 AM
Well, Riki... a long time ago, someone froma big studio recommanded to mark your geometry with your name or logo or whatever recognazible . the process for this was to model your small mark, and to boolean it somehow somewhere (in a supertiny size) into your model.... good idea ?

Later, Hervé

all care, no responsabilities..... he he;)

riki
08-27-2003, 03:25 AM
Anyway, it's one of things that I'm sure I can let other people worry about.

I notice that most lscript authors put copyright info in their code. Of course you can always erase it. But they do have the option of compiled RT scripts or plugins.

I know something like this probably isn't possible and way over the top. But what would be cool would be some kind of Centralized User Database that gave registerred users an ID number which could be embeded into the code of LWO LWS and could be automatically added to any outputed files from that scene or any scene using that object. Such as QT's and JPGS. Then if you had some way of searching the net for this ID number. Alarm bells could start ringing whenever and where ever it turned up.

The Centralised Database operator could be run by some ruthless legal firm that gets a cut of all damages :) Sounds like a good pipe dream.

I'm sure someones already at work on some kind of variation of this idea.

mrunion
08-27-2003, 06:04 AM
Although that sounds cool, it also sounds like "tracking" software. I'm not sure how well that'd fit in with the already discontented masses over tracking cookies on the web, spyware and such.

I for one have nothing good enough to steal. Even if I did I would not want something embedded for "big brother" to watch. Of course you mentioned having the "option" of using it, so that would definintely be a plausible idea for those liking it.

riki
08-27-2003, 06:23 AM
Anyway so maybe it's not such a great idea.

Sometimes heavy handed attempts at control just leads to more caos.

Okay Newtek feel free to trash this suggestion.

Earl
08-27-2003, 10:06 AM
I think you just have to be careful. Any solution NewTek comes up with will be cracked by some know-it-all on the net.

I can understand people sharing scene files in order to get help with something, or to help someone out. My only recommendation is to only share files that you don't care whether they are stolen or not. If it's to demonstrate a surface technique, or a lighting rig, then remove any vital models or extras. Figure out who you can trust and who you can't trust. If you've just 'met' someone on the forums or the net, don't freely give them your work.

When you have a really good piece of artwork, only post still images of it. On your hard drive, you should save your revisions, as it is evidence that you developed the artwork. Keeping your hand-drawn sketches and/or concept art is a bonus as well.

Lamont
08-28-2003, 09:23 PM
Why not just password protect a zip/rar file? Or not make your work so available?

It's all within our own control to protect our files.

Mylenium
08-29-2003, 12:21 AM
Passwords for Zip/ Rar files are useless. The only use a simplistic replacement algorithm and no real encryption. On a fast machine you can easily crack them within half an our just by brute force.

Mylenium

riki
08-29-2003, 12:44 AM
I think the best option is probably not to share assets, if its something your worried about. Only upload lo-res jpg. But I'm not too keen on watermarks or copyright details on the image.

You can also place copyright details in your object's info panel (in the comments window). I've got a funny feeling that most slackers trying to flog your models on ebay or Turbo are probably too dumb or lazy to check it.

Lamont
08-29-2003, 07:25 AM
Originally posted by Mylenium
Passwords for Zip/ Rar files are useless. The only use a simplistic replacement algorithm and no real encryption. On a fast machine you can easily crack them within half an our just by brute force.Depends. I have a dual 1.3ghz p3 and it didn't crack a 7 digit alpha numeric password. I tried 4 different zip cracking apps. And brute force didn't even work.

Lamont
08-29-2003, 07:26 AM
In the end, it's up to the artist.

hrgiger
08-29-2003, 10:26 PM
I'm with ya Lamont.

riki
08-29-2003, 11:11 PM
Password cracking depends on the quality and length of the password you use. If its a name or something from a dictionary then it's easy to crack.

ie 'mum'

But if it's something like

ie '$Th*9o+_4%^k?YiIQMm0yu(p_'

then it's much harder.

Lamont
08-29-2003, 11:15 PM
Yeah, a good thing to do is use Cryllic with numbers...

SplittingPixels
08-30-2003, 07:54 PM
Let's not go overboard here and complicate a simple idea... I totally agree with Riki and I'd love to see even something as simplistic as a place to put a copyright notice.

I'm a firm believer in the power of the (C) symbol. I've had both artwork and models used without permission in the past (read stolen), but never anything that had a brazenly displayed copyright notice, or accompanying license agreement. Most people are sufficiently aware of the difference between something with and without clearly defined ownership — as well as the severity of punishment should they openly and knowlingly take something which they clearly do not have a right to.

Part of my point is this : if a file does not have *any* sort of ownership mark, it is an open invitation for trouble. Branding a logo into the model's geometry isn't an option in my opinion as it's entirely possible that it will never be noticed. Copyright notices should be embedded data that appears on the Object Properties tab or something — make it blink, or bright red, or as a pop-up tool-tip type box. But make the information NOTICEABLE, and part of each and every file.

Right now, we have nothing at all to denote ownership within LightWave content, and this should be remedied.

riki
08-30-2003, 08:03 PM
I agree, a simple solution would be best. We don't need the Son of Sam Missile Defence Shield, just a popup window like QT Pro, where you can add author details, contact, web address etc.

It doesn't have to be fool proof just a deterrent and allow you to take proper credit for your work.

dianalightson
03-10-2005, 08:24 PM
What plug in is used to do a Embedded copyright. How is it done. I need this info really quick. I have several animations I want to put on the internet. Please help. Thanks a lot.

Diana