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Lebish
02-26-2003, 11:39 AM
Ok, here goes..

I am severly dedicated to what I do, and my strongest point is efficient problem solving. I am going on 8 years of schooling, and can honestly tell you, if that is all you got you shot, because being a good animater is all about passion and dedication to the art. No school, anywhere will teach you everything need to be good. Only sleepless nights, tired eyes, and your own ambition determine anything in life.

Currently I work two jobs unrelated to LightWave, and I am just plain worn out.. which really hinders my LightWave work, which in turns really pisses me off, because I know some desk jockey shlep is.. enjoying some buatiful vacation. That i can't even expect to have..untill I pay all my college off.. I mean whats the joke.

Thats why, I am sick and tired of 3D Animators not getting paid what we are worth. I am sure it is the area I live in, that makes me so crabby about work. But really, tell me there isn't tons of great talent out there that are under paid. forced to sit for 40 hours in a cubicle, and completly under appreciated. People don't understand the sickness and dedication it takes to be profficent. Not only that but the world is full of con-artists and crooks, who wont pay or under pay. So if you are either, do use all a favor and die.

Got couple more things to say, then I am done.. if your lucky..

1 Maya Watch your Back !!!!
2 Newtek / Luxology... Who the hell cares.. Props to both..
3 Mr. Perez.. You rule..
4 anyone who picks on my grammar, I will find you...
5 and lastly... Have a great day :)

Sincerly, Me

ursa
02-26-2003, 12:13 PM
if you think you're frustrated now, wait till you are doing 3D for a living and have to deal with being underpaid, overworked, and taken for granted on a daily basis...then you'll be ready to go off on sombody... talk about affecting your work...


ursa

Lebish
02-26-2003, 12:19 PM
Been there done that.. People really don't understand about a both creative and tecnical persons needs.. when it comes to this also.. So anyone who spends.. 1000 on a machine and what ever on LightWave can offer animation. But.. Know this. It is the It takes Talent..and Well being of the person with the Talent..

Karl Hansson
02-26-2003, 02:34 PM
I hear you. Your not alone. Mabe we should form a union.

DigiLusionist
02-26-2003, 05:26 PM
Sadly, forming a union won't help. Unions help drive up the cost of production (in any field), and that drives production out of the country to places where unions don't operate. The Internet has enabled people in far flung locales to offer their services, and some are pretty darned talented.

I do empathize with how you're feeling, Lebish. It does take a huge amount of time and energy to learn and to do this stuff, and sometimes the monetary compensation isn't even there.

Hang in there.

hrgiger
02-26-2003, 08:29 PM
Still, do what you love. Money isn't everything. Sure you have to live but you also have to keep showing up at work every day for the rest of your life most likely until you retire and hating your work or wishing you were somewhere else is the worst.

I don't think a union is a horrible idea. Unions cost people money, sure, but they also protect workers in getting fair compensation (sometimes too fair, but that's another issue altogether) and fair benefits. Sometimes, just basic things like health benfits or sick time.

Anyway, whether or not you do this for a living, you'd still do it right? I know the answer to that for me is a resounding yes. I got into this because of the things I wanted to do with it, not because I thought I could get rich off of it or even make a decent living. Ok, even a living period. When it comes down to it, you change things where you can, and if you can't change it to your satisfaction, then you make it happen for yourself. Start your own studio, make your own rules. Sure, it probably rarely works like that but we still do it anyway. This is what you do.

Lebish
02-27-2003, 03:36 AM
I only do it because I like it.:rolleyes:
That is why I have a new policy, be happy, and if I am not ..find a way to be happy.:confused:

Rory_L
02-27-2003, 04:27 AM
Damn, I`d like a union! Organisation; representation; compensation!

It is entirely my own fault for coming to Japan to live, but I`ll exercise my inalienable right as a free Englishman to moan:-

Here, in the games industry, if you get a contract, you are expected to consider all the good bits to be sheer fantasy; 9 to 5, holiday, weekends, overtime pay...and to know that the bad bits are iron clad and signed in blood!

Here I am, coming up half past eight in the evening, with another hour and a half to go before I can sneak off home `early` without angering my boss and colleagues for being a work shy good for nothing; and I only get paid till 6pm. :eek:

Tons of stuff I love about being in Japan, but working for free isn`t one of `em! Gnash gnash! :mad:

"...aaaaand breathe!" Venting`s fun: thanks Lebish! :D

R

Karl Hansson
02-27-2003, 11:29 AM
How is the good/bad is the pay for an avarage 3d modeling/animation job in USA? I know that the salaries vary from place to place depending on the demand. I imagin that another reason for low salaries are that there probably are lots and lots of people wanting to get into the 3d buissnes which gives the employer the advantage at salary negotioations.

I would like some kind of a world wide union/organisation for the 3d community. That could help people (members) who are working in the bussines or as freelanzers for the 3D bussines with standard contracts, legal issues and blacklisting of bad companies.

hrgiger
02-27-2003, 11:34 AM
I don't know what the average is but I think a friend of mine makes about $30,000 not counting a few bonuses he gets through the year for completed projects. He works for a computer game company in AnnArbor, MI and he primarily works as a modeler.

Lebish
02-27-2003, 02:52 PM
but how about a fraternal society..with paid assasins..
Just kidding..:rolleyes:

Karl Hansson
02-27-2003, 02:59 PM
Well the managment wouldnt be a problem in such a union. I know a few sicilian guys with slick suits and a talent for negotiations. Does the frase "Ill make him an offer he cant refuse..." ring a bell? Well lets just say you dont need to worry about low salaries anymore.:D

Lebish
02-27-2003, 03:18 PM
I know there is a lot better animators than me around..
I know, I just flatter myself..when I think of it, sometimes
I would like think if I had the time, I could be a luminary in this profession.

But, the truth is, with no work in my area. My hands are beat up and dirty from working on cars, night after night... and there are a lot more of you putting in 60 to 70 hour weeks.. bustin butt.. So, I guess

I am just a crybaby when it comes down to it, don't get me wrong I will persevere to what I am working on if it takes me a lifetime. The only cool thing is ..that since lightwave only gets better and better... That my goal to create something like " Jimmy Neutron " only getts better for a one person army like myself.. Cheers.. and I am done venting..

Beamtracer
02-28-2003, 12:23 AM
Lebish, you're working on fixing cars at the moment, but if someone offers you a 3D job without the megabucks, will you take it?

The problem is that so many people are willing to take these low-paid 3D jobs. If people only accepted jobs with good pay, then companies would be forced to up the pay rate.

The moral: only accept jobs with good pay.

archiea
02-28-2003, 01:10 AM
I really do suggest that everyone here pick up this book called "the graphic artists guild Handbook of Pricing and Ethical Guidelines". below is a link to the book at barnes and noble..

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=1OTEGQLKE5&isbn=0932102115&itm=1

Keep in mind, the pricing listed on the book is a MINIMUM!! Even at that its low. Beyond that it offers advice, templates for contracts, legalities regarding copyrighted material, etc...

Do you homework!!!! Do not undersell yourself. i Don't care how much you love what you do. recognize that you have a valuble skill. You best defense is knowledge of rates and practices.

Set a time table for yourself. You have to pay the rent. if we all were able to find sugar daddies/mommies to pay for our rent, we'd be too good looking for the animation industry anyway!! Take a 'calculated" risk to leave your "cubicle" job top be hired at time when studios are looking for anybody. it gets your foot in the door. it may pay less but hopefully you chose the correct timing...We all had to bite it at one time or another. Just don't make it a career for yourself. Always have an exit plan. Don;t let yourself get trapped in a low paying spot for too long. Don't believe your employers when they say that need a favor or that you may get promoted. Always have an exit plan, especially in this environment of project hires. invest in education. get certicfication in the software that you use. Always have a polished reel, no sloppy work. Presentation helps plenty.

The industry is setting itself up to do some serious *** raping to talent and I fear that alot of people just roll over on their backs without informing themselves of what options they have. Do your homework!! You owe it to yourself and your colleages.

cholo
03-04-2003, 04:41 PM
Here's a couple of things that have to be said... :)
First off I've been working in animation/post production for the last 10 years or so, and although living in Mexico puts me in a disadvantaged position as far as working on cool projects or even getting work at all, I've always had the luck of getting work every time. Now I'm not saying it's easy, the hours are long sometimes, I've even landed in the hospital for severe gastritis, the money is not spectacular and sometimes you feel very underapreciated by your clients. But other than that, I do what I do because it's something that my being demands that I do or else I'd go mad hehehe. There's not a moment I spend in front of the computer at the wee hours of the night that I regret because when the work is done it's always worth it. I can't really complain, life is good and now more than ever the technology allows me to get far more done in much less time and with quality I only dreamed of when I first started dabbling in 3D animation. After a while you perfect your skills to the point that you streamline your pipeline and start getting more done in less time and have a little extra free time to unplug which is also basic to be able to remain sane in this line of work. I understand this is not as good as it gets, but then again what is?

Hope my babbling inspires some of those troubled souls out there.

cgolchert
03-06-2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by archiea
I really do suggest that everyone here pick up this book called "the graphic artists guild Handbook of Pricing and Ethical Guidelines". below is a link to the book at barnes and noble..


Problem is there are quite a few unethical studios out there, there are also quite a few people so desperate for work that they will crank out animation at $6/hour.

True we should get paid for what we do, but how do you tell someone to go work at McDonalds instead of a low paying animation job? If it means the difference between getting all my stuff repo'ed because I can't find work and getting lower pay than I deserve, I'll take the paycheck.

I have a few friends that aren't working because of studio cutbacks. They tell me that they try to get temporary jobs at Best Buy and CompUSA. They constantly hear "Why would you want to work here?". I bet a low paying animation job would sound great to them.

Epita
03-06-2003, 03:33 PM
Well, a load of really happy people in here i see! Rory how much do people get paid for CGI in Japan, for modlers if you know specifically.

This really sets me up for a wishing great job as a modler, just 2 years at school, 3/4 at uni and a Gap year working as a modler for bug*ger all, then i can go and get a crap job...

Epita

Lebish
03-06-2003, 03:46 PM
as for me .. I think, I am leaving the industry. This summer, I am getting permoted to Shop Manager, at the Autobody buisness I work for. Its constant, respectable, and honest, Good luck to the rest of you, but I am tired. Don't get me wrong, LightWave will still be my hobby, only because I love it..
Adios all....
:)