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THREEL
08-14-2009, 11:43 AM
I'm in negotiations to show still renders and possibly a short fly through animation that will transform a church fellowship hall into a more contemporary praise and worship facility. The church will still use the room as a fellowship hall as well. Starting with primitives for place holders, I will most likely be modeling every element with greater detail to place in the final renders/animation, unless I can find existing models for a decent price.

I know this isn't much info to go by, but is there anyone who could give me a ball park figure on how much to charge? Should I quote a price for the entire job, or do I quote it on an hourly rate? If I quote an hourly rate, what would be a fair rate for middle America (Ohio), and do I quote a bare minimum of hours? Also, should I require a certain percentage up front.

I want to be fair to the potential customer, and myself.

Any input on this would be greatly appreciated.

tHANX!

cresshead
08-14-2009, 12:04 PM
if your a confident and efficient enough for the project at hand then price it by how many days it will take you to create it..i'd ususally double my guess to factor in unforseen extra work and your client's wiggle room for changes without costs.

i'd also setup a staged payment system like cost for lo res previz, get paid for that before moving on to the next part..full model, then texture lghting then final print res and fly thru.

staged payments alllow you to be paid as you go and the client to changes at end of each stage and re pricing before starting the next stage if it looks simpler/more complicated.

hope that helps

the actual price depends on what you think your time is worth in the location your at and the quality of work your client is looking for you to attain.

4dartist
08-14-2009, 12:37 PM
Just coming up with a rate and saying I charge $X/hr won't really work well because that would be like an 'open budget'. Saying you don't know how much it'll cost, but you'll keep working until it's done. Most companies won't go for that unless you have done a lot of work for them. So in this case you would probably have to come up with a budget cap.

I would suggest, figuring out what a fair rate for yourself would be. $30 - $150 depending on your awesomeness/experience/speed/etc. Hell I started doing freelance at $20/hr :) but I was learning and didn't need the money so bad. Next think long and hard how much time you will need to complete each step. Pre-production, corresponding with client, modeling, setup, textureing, rendering tests, changes, final renders, changes, final renders, changes, final renders. Some people figure the time to do the project then add a percentage etc to make buffer for changes.

So take your rate * the total time (with room for changes) and that's your basic estimate or budget. If you eat time at the end because you aren't done, I guess beg for more money or eat it and learn for next time. Quoting work takes a lot of time to get good at. :)

Jockomo
08-14-2009, 02:57 PM
If you are making a quote. The word "possibly" should not be in there.
I'd suggest making detailed storyboards of every shot and the length of each shot. Then base you're quote on that.
At that point you can make a list of objects needed for the production and get an estimate of how long it would take to build them. You can use similar models on turbosquid for a pricing guideline.
Then you can estimate the animation time and finally the render time.
Take you total and multiply it times 2 because you always think you can do it faster than you can.

If you are doing it for a tax deduction you must do it this way: charge the church for the production. Cash the check. Donate the money to the church. You can not just put an arbitrary number on your taxes, there must be reciepts and money exchanged.

THREEL
08-15-2009, 09:02 AM
Thanks for the replies so far guys.

I'll most likely quote as sections then.

Room layout with primitives for placement.

Room layout with Higher res models.

Finally, fly through/walk animation. The animation would just be a simple fly/walk through.

I just thought maybe there was someone out there that has done something similar that could give me some insight.

The fellowship hall has about 16 round tables with about 8 chairs around each one. One wall has very 3 or 4 very tall windows, while the opposite wall has a bunch of small windows at the top. There are diamond shaped crossbeams (4/5) that run overhead. The ceiling is very slightly cathedral shaped. There are large heater vents in the upper wall that will be removed in favor for vents in the crossbeams. They want to add acoustical panels to the walls. A band up front (just instruments) on a retractable stage, audio/visual booth in rear. These are the kind of things they want in the layout. I will add that some of the models will need to be in the mid-res level and not hi-res.

Again, thanks for your input.

meatycheesyboy
08-15-2009, 11:03 AM
What everyone has said so far is pretty much how I estimate projects at work. Break the project down into the smallest reasonable chunks as possible then do mini estimates for each chunk. Multiply the total time by the rate you want to charge then add some overhead for unforeseen costs. Also, don't neglect costs for buying textures, models, etc. if you are going to go that route.

After you've come up with a number, present the client with a well written and detailed breakdown as well as the total cost. The more detailed the estimate, the more likely they'll trust you to do the job. But do not include how many hours it will take in the estimate, only the total cost for each step. The client should be trained to pay for the value of the job not the per hour rate. Hiding the hourly rate from the client gives you leverage in future jobs to raise your rates without having to justify them.

OnlineRender
08-15-2009, 11:15 AM
uk 1minute = 1000

borkus
08-15-2009, 02:12 PM
I've learned the hard way about what MCB is talking about. Lesson learned. I find that sometimes I'm putting more work into the presentation than the actual project. I don't mind though, as it usually shows and they comment on how well I did in the presentation. Lands the job, and that's all that matters...

Mr Rid
08-15-2009, 04:48 PM
I'm in negotiations to show still renders and possibly a short fly through animation that will transform a church fellowship hall into a more contemporary praise and worship facility.

tHANX!

Reminds of one of my very first jobs, but it was a long flythru the entire 2 story church. I charged $800 in '96. But then I always said $800 no matter what the job since I had no idea what to charge. $800 sounded like a nice number, and no one balked when I said it. I almost felt guilty to get paid any amount to play around on the computer all day, let alone over twice what I made in my day job. But I used all stock models to populate the church interior.

BTW, there are a billion free SketchUp models on Google. I just typed in 'church' and got...804 results- http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/search?q=church&btnG=Search&styp=m most of which are low res/game quality-like (detail level varies) but fine for previz, or can be modified of course. But just search 'tree' 'desk', whatever. If you install the free SketchUp, drop this into the plugins folder 76332 Then when you open SU, under the Tools menu, 'lwo export' to convert to LW. A few years ago I did another previz that took place in a medieval church and I found all the props, furniture, fixtures for free or cheap on Daz and Renderosity. I recently needed a particular steam locomotive and particularly the underside... where would you expect to find that? I had trouble even finding a picture of the underside of any train. I found almost the exact model of train I was referencing and an under structure detail, on SketchUp.

cresshead
08-15-2009, 05:18 PM
uk 1minute = 1000


per min>>
scotland= deep fried mars bar, deep fried pizza and a bottle of wine in a paper bag!:D

OnlineRender
08-16-2009, 03:25 AM
per min>>
scotland= deep fried mars bar, deep fried pizza and a bottle of wine in a paper bag!:D

how dare you insult me with the use of a bottle of wine " its BUCKFAST "
lol

peace

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