PDA

View Full Version : rounded edge - tricky as h***



erikals
08-02-2009, 04:41 AM
allright, Challenge 8/

how (on earth) would you make a rounded edge on a shape like this?

http://www.newtek.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=75904&d=1249209658

cagey5
08-02-2009, 04:52 AM
Is the hole booleaned out or modelled?

erikals
08-02-2009, 05:15 AM
booleaned, this is just an example,.. modeling the shapes would take too long unfortunately,
also very tricky with this kind of shape as the main object is a sphere...

...i've been trying all kinds of cheats, but nope, still no success...

with Nurbs one could have done this in a flash...
but using plain polys or SubD this is just darn difficult,..

cagey5
08-02-2009, 05:24 AM
Have you tried selecting all of the 'cut' surface and using multishift?

erikals
08-02-2009, 05:35 AM
yep, doesn't work, too much inaccuracy,

the only thing that could maybe have worked would be to subdivide the h*** out of the object to avoid the inaccuracy... but this atm freezes modeler... :/

heh, no easy task... http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/smile.gif

evenflcw
08-02-2009, 06:25 AM
Upload it. :)

Subds are obviously not very good at accuracy and maintaining perfect geometrical shapes. But I suppose it's the same as always. First alot of tweaking to align the edges around the cut, so they flow in at a decent angle (perpendicular-like), while still, somehow, maintaining the geometric shape. Then use the AddEdge tool with the stopper to make precision cuts along the outside edge, to sort of isolate the area. Tweak the newly added edge loop so shape is maintained. And then just bevel the cut. Easier said than done. I'm sure.

probiner
08-02-2009, 06:27 AM
Yup, upload it =) Spare us of boolean stuff if you already did it

Cheers

erikals
08-02-2009, 07:25 AM
alrait,...
thought it was kind of hard to explain in words so you might take a look here,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJSDG351jXM

the model isn't all that advanced, but here it is,...

erikals
08-02-2009, 07:53 AM
just found, in order to make the boolean work properly, both forground and background object have to have trigons, quads won't work,...

erikals
08-02-2009, 08:26 AM
nope, Multishift doesn't work either, tried on a highres mesh, but the process just isn't accurate enough...

aghh!
well, anyways, i think i sorted the problem. it isn't a problem, it just simply doesn't work.

http://www.newtek.com/forums/images/smilies/brians/chicken.gif

erikals
08-02-2009, 08:44 AM
found this old post,...

however the problem is like i mention in post #12
http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9027

Matt
08-02-2009, 08:54 AM
Without modelling that in sub-ds, it's pretty much impossible using multi-shift / rounder on the model you're showing there.

Just a downside of poly modelling.

I did wonder if you could rail extrude a circle (if located in the right place) to get the radius, but the amount of cleaning up and merging would be almost as tiresome as just modelling it in sub-ds.

I've had situations like this, never found an easy way around it.

erikals
08-02-2009, 09:04 AM
yep... :/

this method posted below was close though,.. hm, must bee a way... http://cache.hyves-static.net/images/smilies/default/smiley_bee.gif


found this old post,...

however the problem is like i mention in post #12
http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9027

Matt
08-02-2009, 09:21 AM
Okay, I had a play, I used your model, but used Thickener after the boolean/clean up, then I used Multi-shift (badly!) to get the radius.

My inset with Thickener is different to yours, but the principle should be the same.

evenflcw
08-02-2009, 09:55 AM
I started from a tessellated sphere. They work pretty well despite the tris/star connections, as the mesh and curvature is so uniform. So just start with a medium res tessellated sphere. Approximate the shape of the hole, by either dragging points or adding points using AddEdge tool. Tweak. Ditch the polys in the whole. Run thickener. Bevel. Maybe tweak again and/or throw a smooth operation on that. It won't be exact, but it never is anyway with subds.

However you seem to have a cut that runs differently than. Was that important?

EDIT: Most of the vid is just me tweaking. When you get to 1.00 scrub ahead to 4:00. You won't miss anything.

EDIT2: Wan't more accuracy, try higher res tessellated sphere, abit more work tweaking the edge. Then again, perhaps I should have started with a boolean and cleaned up any point with only 1 polygon. Would have saved me some time. Like the fella once said: "Jag tänkte inte på det!"

probiner
08-02-2009, 10:27 AM
i went bananas and messed up with patches ( i don't click them)

Since you talked about nurbs, the most closest thing i see in LW is patches wich are a mistery to me some times "Curves dont cross correctly? Whata..."

But there it is, i probably needes more point in the sphere's ***.

Cheers

PS: So many came up while i was doing this crap... Let's read them =)

erikals
08-02-2009, 10:34 AM
thanks, but we're not there just yet http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/smile.gif

the problem is like i mention here to make this work on all objects, and not only the ones that can be scaled (thickener) from the center...
http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showpost.php?p=99263&postcount=12

so, for example, how would one go about this...
http://www.newtek.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=75915&stc=1&d=1249263162

evenflcw
08-02-2009, 12:22 PM
That image looked so clean. I tried to Alt+LMB it! I'm screwed up bad.

3DGFXStudios
08-02-2009, 01:00 PM
Do it like this. Easy and fast. Use the plugin Select Z and press ok

With this plug-in you can also make nice puzzle balls (that's what the boost is for)

jaxtone
08-02-2009, 02:42 PM
How lucky can one guy be? I kissed her and she kissed me.
Like a fella once said: "Ain't that a kick in the head?"

:D

Darn good song that one... smoothly beveled in every sharped angle!


I started from a tessellated sphere. They work pretty well despite the tris/star connections, as the mesh and curvature is so uniform. So just start with a medium res tessellated sphere. Approximate the shape of the hole, by either dragging points or adding points using AddEdge tool. Tweak. Ditch the polys in the whole. Run thickener. Bevel. Maybe tweak again and/or throw a smooth operation on that. It won't be exact, but it never is anyway with subds.

However you seem to have a cut that runs differently than. Was that important?

EDIT: Most of the vid is just me tweaking. When you get to 1.00 scrub ahead to 4:00. You won't miss anything.

EDIT2: Wan't more accuracy, try higher res tessellated sphere, abit more work tweaking the edge. Then again, perhaps I should have started with a boolean and cleaned up any point with only 1 polygon. Would have saved me some time. Like the fella once said: "Jag tänkte inte på det!"

erikals
08-02-2009, 04:45 PM
Do it like this. Easy and fast. Use the plugin Select Z and press ok

With this plug-in you can also make nice puzzle balls (that's what the boost is for)

cool, but only works for sphere, and very tricky in the above example http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/smile.gif

erikals
08-02-2009, 04:47 PM
That image looked so clean. I tried to Alt+LMB it! I'm screwed up bad.

hehe, don't say that, i will now use it later on to my advantage,... muah-ha-ha http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/smile.gif:devil:

erikals
08-02-2009, 04:52 PM
ok, i emailed a certain LW plugin developer, and guess what, he coded a solution just 1 week ago... http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/smash.gif

let's just say i'm looking into buying LWCad... http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/wink.gif

monovich
08-02-2009, 05:13 PM
if you are just trying to get nice fillet edge highlights and such you could use Denis' edge node. I use it from time to time and it works quite well.

if you need rounding in the model... well I'll be watching this thread for the answer to that one!

erikals
08-02-2009, 05:16 PM
hi, thanks,
but i tried it, doesn't work, only works for thin edges.
works great for very thin edges though.

COBRASoft
08-02-2009, 05:24 PM
ok, i emailed a certain LW plugin developer, and guess what, he coded a solution just 1 week ago... http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/smash.gif

let's just say i'm looking into buying LWCad... http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/wink.gif

LWCad is superb, you should buy it for a lot of things: snapping, curves, profiles, distance, surface, booleans, ... Viktor is da man!

Tobian
08-02-2009, 06:34 PM
Yeah I've had hellish booleans before, not as bad as that, but it can be problematic. One thing, I do recall there was a boolean plugin which didn't break when you cut funny shapes, so you wouldn't have to do such a dense mesh!

Also (on the original object) it might have been simpler to cut it down the Y axis, as then you wouldn't get as much cuts across polygons? Maybe not. Yeah this is a problem to do in poly modelling, though it's not so much an issue of LW - as a Poly modelling issue! Anyone care to try the same sort of task in alternative poly modellers?

erikals
08-02-2009, 07:09 PM
yep, i think this goes for all apps though, they all seam to have this problem, unless you use professional NURBS programs, like Rhino, Moi,.. etc... http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/smile.gif

regarding booleans, never tried this plugin, but was this the one you referred to?
http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/max3dc/28801641.html

Tobian
08-02-2009, 07:20 PM
Ahh yeah that's the plugin. With cleaner - lower poly intersections you have more of a chance. After doing a few dozens circular cuts through 4 layers of a conical tubular section, and then bevelling the edges, so they didn't cause either smoothing issues or make things non-planar - I was nearly suicidal LOL

And - as an adjoinder to the 'multishift' comments, I actually copied the shape to another layer, multishift-in-setted the shape, then stencilled it back on, hand-cut the ngons into quads, then either used the double-inset trick (insetting both ways) or rounder if the edge was stable enough.. GAH :)

garynb
08-02-2009, 09:10 PM
So is this going to be a new feature in LWCad or can you do it in 3.1?

If so can anyone show me how?

Cheers

Gary

erikals
08-02-2009, 09:33 PM
Gary, yep he talked about having it in 3.5... he will probably post more info on it a bit later on...

Tobian, LOL... hehe http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/smile.gif
i know, 3D can be frustrating at times... http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/smile.gif

colkai
08-03-2009, 05:29 AM
Yet another reason why LWCAD rocks! :) Where would modeller be without it?